Motor Trade RIP (1888-2008)

Zube

Biro wrote: »

The problem with that is when it comes to tyres the dealers are too dear.

That's one problem: the second is that they can't ask which brand I'd like.

Darragh29

itarumaa wrote: »

Please do, since those examples are quite funny to read (well maybe not for you, since you experienced them) and it gives good examples about both sides of the customer-garage relationship.

Here's another one that lost me a customer because I just lost the fu*king head with him...

Customer walks into garage, he is a regular customer, been in before with his car for a service some months ago. We are not too busy, but still busy enough. I ask him what is wrong, as he has no car. The car it turns out is broken down in his driveway, well not broken down as such, he started the engine and heard a banging noise so he turned it off again. I tell him I'll be up in ten minutes to have a look at it.

He heads off, I get a mechanic to run me up the road (I knew where he lived), after a quick inspection, I find the problem to be the crankshaft pulley on his car has come apart and has become disconnected from the crankshaft, (is the type with a rubber dampener inside the pulley), and is floating around and banging off the chassis of the car and the engine block. I took it out of the engine, drove his car down to my garage and got a price for the part. It was over a hundred quid for this part, around 140 Euro or something like that... I called the customer, gave him the bad news, the usual, "Oh my God, can you not do it for any better than that!?!?!?!?!?!?", crap, but at the end of the day he gives me the go ahead, I order in the part from my main dealer supplier who doesn't take back parts for credit I should mention!

Part ordered in on Monday, car recovered and diagnosed and part ordered in within 20 minutes of customer presenting at garage, due to be delivered on Wednesday morning. Happy days...

Nest day is Tuesday. Customer rings at 10:00AM, "where is my car?". "Part won't be in until Wednesday morning, we went through all this yesterday..."

Customer rings back at 11:00AM, "I have found a garage in Dublin that has one of these parts on the shelf for 10 Euro cheaper!".. My take on this has to be, "Well, I have ordered this part in for you and I have to take it as my supplier has ordered it in for you and he cannot give it back to his supplier, so lets just be patient and stick to what we agreed here"...

Customer argues about this for 40 minutes on a Freefone number which means I'm paying for 40 minutes of his mobile discussion at peak time, while he gives out fu*k to me because he needs his car for his kids to get to school, etc, etc, etc, etc. Don't forget, all this was fine yesterday, he knew the part wasn't coming in until Wednesday and was fine about it, until he starts ringing around and finds another dealership with the part on the shelf (80 miles down the road), for ten Euro less!

Cutomer rings back an hour later saying he wants to bring his car to another garage because they can do the work today. He sends down his wife who argues for another hour and starts screaming and roaring at me in the workshop for not allowing her husband to get the part himself, even though if I ran with that, I'd be stuck with a 140 Euro part the following day that I couldn't shift for God knows how long...

Then I get accused of being a racist and being ackward with the man and his wife because they are African, and that "you wouldn't treat someone from your own country like this".

When I heard this, I took her car out of the garage and left it running outside on the footpath and told her to get the car out of my sight and never darken my door again...

I think this was one of my worst experiences in the game.

pipsqueak

That was funny, ever think of writing a book about these experiences?? I swear to god i would pay a score for a book like that! deadly:D

Hellrazer

cancan wrote: »

Lets be honest here - ripping customers off is widespread

Im sorry I have to disagree completely with this.I would more likely agree that people assume that they are being ripped off by garages.

It doesnt help either the fact that people here post up "am I being ripped off" threads and the general answer is that they are. The way I see it is that people here are clued in to parts prices and labour costs as a whole so the automatic assumption is that the poster is being ripped off at main dealer prices.

Heres an example--Im charged say 10.00 euros + vat for a part from the manufacturer.The retail price is 12.50 + vat.
I know I can source this part at 3.00 euros and retail it at 5.00 but the manufacturer insists that I use their parts and their prices.Is that right??I dont think so,but theres nothing I can do about it.

As for service prices--The manufacturers have set prices for annual servicing which although may be just an Oil change is also an "annual vehicle check over" :rolleyes::rolleyes: which is where the price comes from.Its something I disagree with completely as it is a rip off for customers,but again we have no control over it.An oil change should be an oil change.

If a customer want just an oil change and no bells or whistles then thats what we charge them for--Oil filter,oil and labour.

The majority of dealers are not ripping people off but the assumption is that they are and Im a firm believer that the problem lies in communication both ways when its come to servicing and the likes.

Anan1

Darragh29 - You actually used that expression, 'never darken my door again'

bill_ashmount

Darragh29 wrote: »

He sends down his wife who argues for another hour and starts screaming and roaring at me in the workshop for not allowing her husband to get the part himself

I'd of told her to fu*k off after 2 minutes and thrown her out of the shop.

Darragh29

pipsqueak wrote: »

That was funny, ever think of writing a book about these experiences?? I swear to god i would pay a score for a book like that! deadly:D

Maybe for next Christmas!

Seriously, you couldn't make up the absolute sh*t you have to put up with in a garage, and I think mine was well run and organised. We certainly NEVER fitted anything without authorisation, every car in for a service was valeted inside and out. I'm sure somewhere along the line I let someone down, I'm not saying I was perfect, who is, but if you stuck a stick of dynamite up my ass and stood behind me with a lighted match, you wouldn't get me to go back to that crap.

-Chris-

This'll be a controversial post, but please take it in the spirit in which it's meant.

cancan wrote: »

but at the end of the day the customer is always right.

No they're not.

I can't state that strongly enough, no they're not.

I'm a customer more often than I'm a salesman, and I'll freely admit that I'm not always right. Sometimes I'm not even close.


I've worked in sales and service and I've encountered people who think they're right, but they're not, or people who say they're right, even though they know they're not.

My wife moved from a desk job in a large corporation to a front-line job in a bank, and for every "you shoulda heard what someone did today" story I tell her, she has two to tell me.


The customer is not always right, but they're the one who's paying.
It's the seller's responsibility to correct the customers misapprehensions.
It's their job to gain and maintain the customer's respect and trust so that they can guide and correct the customer as necessary, without the customer taking offence to it.
It's not their job to acquiesce to the customer just because that's who has the chequebook.

Biro wrote: »

The problem with that is when it comes to tyres the dealers are too dear. You might argue that your not into the tyre business so it costs you more, but most dealers have a deal with the local tyre place. You go to the local tyre place yourself and it could be at least €50 less and probably up to €200 in extreme cases for a set of tyres. Now are you telling me that it costs the garage €50 or more to send someone down with the car to change the tyres? And that's €50 if the tyre place doesn't give the garage any discount for repeated business, which I'm sure they do. €10 or €20 more for a dealer to fit 4 good make tyres would be all I'd expect to pay for the privilage.

I see no problem with a dealer putting a reasonable margin onto work they subcontract out. At the end of the day, they're the ones who have to honour the service/warranty in the customer's eyes.


For example - you get 4 tyres fitted by our service dept.
The service dept. subcontracts to the local Advance Pitstop.
The service dept. has to arrange to get the car to-and-from Advance Pitstop.
If you have an issue with those tyres (they're not balanced properly, there's a vibration, there's a sidewall bubble) you'll come back and bawl the service advisor out of it. You'll insist on the lend of a car while your car is being fixed, you might even insist that the car is collected from you.

Same if I get an alarm fitted to a new car, or a phone kit. If it goes wrong I'll have no problem lending a customer my car while they leave their car in for repair. If the phone fitter damages the dashboard while fitting the kit, we'll invoice them for the part, but we'll normally have to absorb the fitting cost.



If all that work, and the potential aftersales hassle if the subcontractor doesn't do their job right, isn't worth a few quid then I don't know what you're expecting!

Darragh29

AudiChris wrote: »

This'll be a controversial post, but please take it in the spirit in which it's meant.




No they're not.

I can't state that strongly enough, no they're not.

I'm a customer more often than I'm a salesman, and I'll freely admit that I'm not always right. Sometimes I'm not even close.


I've worked in sales and service and I've encountered people who think they're right, but they're not, or people who say they're right, even though they know they're not.

My wife moved from a desk job in a large corporation to a front-line job in a bank, and for every "you shoulda heard what someone did today" story I tell her, she has two to tell me.


The customer is not always right, but they're the one who's paying.
It's the seller's responsibility to correct the customers misapprehensions.
It's their job to gain and maintain the customer's respect and trust so that they can guide and correct the customer as necessary, without the customer taking offence to it.
It's not their job to acquiesce to the customer just because that's who has the chequebook.





I see no problem with a dealer putting a reasonable margin onto work they subcontract out. At the end of the day, they're the ones who have to honour the service/warranty in the customer's eyes.


For example - you get 4 tyres fitted by our service dept.
The service dept. subcontracts to the local Advance Pitstop.
The service dept. has to arrange to get the car to-and-from Advance Pitstop.
If you have an issue with those tyres (they're not balanced properly, there's a vibration, there's a sidewall bubble) you'll come back and bawl the service advisor out of it. You'll insist on the lend of a car while your car is being fixed, you might even insist that the car is collected from you.

Same if I get an alarm fitted to a new car, or a phone kit. If it goes wrong I'll have no problem lending a customer my car while they leave their car in for repair. If the phone fitter damages the dashboard while fitting the kit, we'll invoice them for the part, but we'll normally have to absorb the fitting cost.



If all that work, and the potential aftersales hassle if the subcontractor doesn't do their job right, isn't worth a few quid then I don't know what you're expecting!

The thing is, I've said this loads of times on here. 80% of your customers are a pleasure to deal with. They pay what they agreed, they are polite and genuinely appreciate you looking out for them and looking after them.

20% of your customers are customers that in all reality shouldn't be allowed drive a fu*kin car, because they can't afford to maintain the car that they drive!!! That's the problem, that 20% that take up 80% of your time because the real problem is not one of service but that they just don't want to pay...

Drummerboy08

Chris i think you hit the mark with that one.

At the minute, i'm dealing with a fairly akward customer. They have two vehicles with us, one being a 06 Peugeot 407, which is on a Maintenance contract.

It was taken in to a local Peugeot dealer last week with clutch problems. The vehicle has covered 44000kms from new.

The head mechanic worked on it last week, to find the clutch disc badly scorched / marked. Another senior mechanic looked at it, along with the service manager - the conclusion they came to was the damage was caused by driver error.

I spoke to this drivers manager, telling him what the garage found, and he was adament that three experienced mechanics were wrong. Note that these mechanics work on peugeots every day. He insisted on sending down a mechanic from his own company to look at it.

When his mechanic went down, he argued it was peugeots fault the clutch had failed, that they should repair it. I didnt buy this, neither did the garage.

Then yesterday, i take a call from the garage saying an indo accessor has been in to look at the car on behalf ofthe drivers company, apparently as soon as he looked at the clutch he said driver error 100%.

Now, after all this, the manager is STILL disputing it. It has been shown by a garage with no association to us, and an indo accessor organised by the company that it is driver error, and yet more than likely we will have to absorb the costs of repair to this vehicle.

Now tell me the customer is always right.

Darragh29

cancan wrote: »

Why don't honest independents form a group (akin to the SIMI idea) where users are bound by high standards and where good customer service and cheap costs are guaranteed.

Vet members extemely carefully, and boot out anyone who engages in any dodgy dealings.
Be customer centric.
Stick that sign outside your door, and you'll make money, the customer will get a good deal, and everyone is happy.

I had this idea not too long ago, but the thing is, no matter what you do, some people have outrageous expectations. Also, no matter how you run an aftersales business, you are relying on a wider team of support people and businesses, especially for parts supply. You can't engineer out parts being delivered that are incorrect despite you giving a chassis number or a part number, aftersales, by virtue of the work done and the business activity, is complicated and messy. I might quote you 600 Euro to do a clutch, that could jump up to 800 Euro if I find that there is something wrong with the gearbox after removing it, like an oil seal leaking and a worn clutch fork or something along those lines. This happens day in and day out when working on vehicles.

A few years ago before we all lost the run of ourselves in the Celtic Tiger, people were more patient and took less drugs, so if there was a problem or a delay that was unavoidable, no big deal, we'll just have to wait.

Now when there is a problem, you can be sure you are dealing with an irrational impatient person now, IF YOU ARE LUCKY, or literally be dealing with an absolute and utter drug induced headcase if you are unlucky.

cancan

AudiChris wrote: »

This'll be a controversial post, but please take it in the spirit in which it's meant.




No they're not.

I can't state that strongly enough, no they're not.

I'm a customer more often than I'm a salesman, and I'll freely admit that I'm not always right. Sometimes I'm not even close.


I've worked in sales and service and I've encountered people who think they're right, but they're not, or people who say they're right, even though they know they're not.

My wife moved from a desk job in a large corporation to a front-line job in a bank, and for every "you shoulda heard what someone did today" story I tell her, she has two to tell me.


The customer is not always right, but they're the one who's paying.
It's the seller's responsibility to correct the customers misapprehensions.
It's their job to gain and maintain the customer's respect and trust so that they can guide and correct the customer as necessary, without the customer taking offence to it.
It's not their job to acquiesce to the customer just because that's who has the chequebook.





I see no problem with a dealer putting a reasonable margin onto work they subcontract out. At the end of the day, they're the ones who have to honour the service/warranty in the customer's eyes.


For example - you get 4 tyres fitted by our service dept.
The service dept. subcontracts to the local Advance Pitstop.
The service dept. has to arrange to get the car to-and-from Advance Pitstop.
If you have an issue with those tyres (they're not balanced properly, there's a vibration, there's a sidewall bubble) you'll come back and bawl the service advisor out of it. You'll insist on the lend of a car while your car is being fixed, you might even insist that the car is collected from you.

Same if I get an alarm fitted to a new car, or a phone kit. If it goes wrong I'll have no problem lending a customer my car while they leave their car in for repair. If the phone fitter damages the dashboard while fitting the kit, we'll invoice them for the part, but we'll normally have to absorb the fitting cost.



If all that work, and the potential aftersales hassle if the subcontractor doesn't do their job right, isn't worth a few quid then I don't know what you're expecting!

Until you are willing to share with the customer the rough margins on both sale and service of cars, people will assume the are being ripped. From what I understand, those margins are a tad on the unreasonable side.

It's a black hole of the industry's creation.

And I hate to break it to you. The first rule of business is, the customer is ALWAYS right, even when they are wrong. People who understand this will still be in business in 2 years time. The rest will disappear.

Out of curiousity, what would you condsier a "resonable margin"?

Anan1

You know what, AudiChris? You're in the wrong industry.:)

Darragh29

Drummerboy08 wrote: »

Chris i think you hit the mark with that one.

At the minute, i'm dealing with a fairly akward customer. They have two vehicles with us, one being a 06 Peugeot 407, which is on a Maintenance contract.

It was taken in to a local Peugeot dealer last week with clutch problems. The vehicle has covered 44000kms from new.

The head mechanic worked on it last week, to find the clutch disc badly scorched / marked. Another senior mechanic looked at it, along with the service manager - the conclusion they came to was the damage was caused by driver error.

I spoke to this drivers manager, telling him what the garage found, and he was adament that three experienced mechanics were wrong. Note that these mechanics work on peugeots every day. He insisted on sending down a mechanic from his own company to look at it.

When his mechanic went down, he argued it was peugeots fault the clutch had failed, that they should repair it. I didnt buy this, neither did the garage.

Then yesterday, i take a call from the garage saying an indo accessor has been in to look at the car on behalf ofthe drivers company, apparently as soon as he looked at the clutch he said driver error 100%.

Now, after all this, the manager is STILL disputing it. It has been shown by a garage with no association to us, and an indo accessor organised by the company that it is driver error, and yet more than likely we will have to absorb the costs of repair to this vehicle.

Now tell me the customer is always right.

Have been here a hundred times. A clutch disc comes out with the linings like sheeps wool and the pressure plate with grooves where the disc rivets have eaten grooves out of the pressure plate.

Best thing you can do with a customer like this is send him somewhere else for future work.

Darragh29

cancan wrote: »

Until you are willing to share with the customer the rough margins on both sale and service of cars, people will assume the are being ripped.

It's a black whole of the industry's creation.

And I hate to break it to you. The first rule of business is, the customer is ALWAYS right, even when they are wrong. People who understand this will still be in business in 2 years time. The rest will disappear.

Out of curiousity, what would you condsier a "resonable margin"?

A "reasonable margin" doesn't really come into it. The margin you need to be operating at to pay the bills and keep the door open for a workshop is 60% gross margin minimum. If you aren't holding that money, you're losing money. If you drill down into an actual transaction, you'll see how hard it is to maintain a margin of 60%. It is actually impossible at times when you are dealing with main dealer vested interests that give you a poxy 10% discount on a part while they are making 90% on it themselves.

Drummerboy08

Darragh29 wrote: »

Have been here a hundred times. A clutch disc comes out with the linings like sheeps wool and the pressure plate with grooves where the disc rivets have eaten grooves out of the pressure plate.

Best thing you can do with a customer like this is send him somewhere else for future work.

As much as i'd like to tell him to F*CK OFF AND USE SOMEONE ELSE, i cant because in this day and age, your reputation is everything. If we are seen to not look after our customers, we are in deep sh*t. People might be surprised how quick a bad reputation can spread by word of mouth thru companies.

I've tried to accomadate him as best i can, but he just doesnt want to listen/pay the bill.

I think there are problems in this industry, but on both sides of the counter.

Darragh29

Drummerboy08 wrote: »

As much as i'd like to tell him to F*CK OFF AND USE SOMEONE ELSE, i cant because in this day and age, your reputation is everything. If we are seen to not look after our customers, we are in deep sh*t. People might be surprised how quick a bad reputation can spread by word of mouth thru companies.

I've tried to accomadate him as best i can, but he just doesnt want to listen/pay the bill.

I think there are problems in this industry, but on both sides of the counter.

I just ran out of patience with this kind of nonsense. Like I said above, before you posted that about the clutch, the issue here yet again is that this guy doesn't want to pay. When you do the analysis on many issues, it often comes down to an unavoidable fact: that people simply can't afford the work they have asked you to do. Why else would someone have an issue paying for something that you supplied them with?

The motor industry is the only industry I know of where this constant messing goes on...

Darragh29

Drummerboy08 wrote: »

As much as i'd like to tell him to F*CK OFF AND USE SOMEONE ELSE, i cant because in this day and age, your reputation is everything. If we are seen to not look after our customers, we are in deep sh*t. People might be surprised how quick a bad reputation can spread by word of mouth thru companies.

I've tried to accomadate him as best i can, but he just doesnt want to listen/pay the bill.

I think there are problems in this industry, but on both sides of the counter.

Yeah but if you get a reputation for being a soft touch it'll not be long before every waster in town has a path bet to your outlet chancing their arm with your business. You'll always be busy if you do work for nothing!

cancan

So what would an audi main dealer charge for an oil change in an A4 to take something simple.

Doing my sums...

An OEM A4 oil filter can be bought for 5 euro online.
Oil will cost you 20 euro tops - prob less.
Labour - 30 mins - we'll assume it the aforementioned Derek who is a bit slow and thick - I would imagine that the mechanic is getting say a healthy 14 euro into his pocket per half hour.

That gives us costs of 39 euro.
Lets give the healthy 60% margin. (60% margins are not the norm in most industries)

That brings us to 62.4.

If dealers are charging this then it is fair.
If not....

Drummerboy08

Darragh29 wrote: »

Yeah but if you get a reputation for being a soft touch it'll not be long before every waster in town has a path bet to your outlet chancing their arm with your business. You'll always be busy if you do work for nothing!

The way its gone at the minute, i'd prefer to be seen to be busy and make no money, rather than do fu*k all all make no money.....:eek:

Hellrazer

Darragh29 wrote: »

you are dealing with main dealer vested interests that give you a poxy 10% discount on a part while they are making 90% on it themselves.

Darragh--Theres not one main dealer anywhere making 90% on a part.

Ive worked for Ford : 25%-50%
Citroen : 25%-35%
Hyundai : 25%-27.50%
Mitsubishi : 25%-27.50%
Honda : 27.50%
Volvo : 27.50-50%

This is the dealer net prices off the retail price.
We give away 10%-17.50% to trade customers.We also run a loyalty scheme where service customers get 10% off their parts in the workshop.

Id love to be making 90% on parts sales

Darragh29

Hellrazer wrote: »

Darragh--Theres not one main dealer anywhere making 90% on a part.

Ive worked for Ford : 25%-27.50%
Citroen : 25%-35%
Hyundai : 25%-27.50%
Mitsubishi : 25%-27.50%
Honda : 27.50%
Volvo : 27.50-50%

This is the dealer net prices off the retail price.
We give away 10%-17.50% to trade customers.We also run a loyalty scheme where service customers get 10% off their parts in the workshop.

Id love to be making 90% on parts sales

Well I'm not privy to the data that you have available, but one thing that always drove me mad was how I was supposed to be able to compete with a main dealer when I get a 10% discount on a part.

I argued before that I should be able to buy that part on the same terms as a main dealer. If people want to know why there is no value for money, look at the lack of competition caused by that a situation alone...

Drummerboy08

Hellrazer wrote: »

Darragh--Theres not one main dealer anywhere making 90% on a part.

Ive worked for Ford : 25%-27.50%
Citroen : 25%-35%
Hyundai : 25%-27.50%
Mitsubishi : 25%-27.50%
Honda : 27.50%
Volvo : 27.50-50%

This is the dealer net prices off the retail price.
We give away 10%-17.50% to trade customers.We also run a loyalty scheme where service customers get 10% off their parts in the workshop.

Id love to be making 90% on parts sales

+1

I used to work in the parts dept in a Citroen dealer before my current job.

It is all well and good to buy your parts on the net at a cheap rate, but it is more than likely the part will not be approved by the manufacturer, which will render the warranty useless (if the vehicle would be still covered) and also means that if the vehicle was in an accident due to say, brake failure, just after you replaced the pads/discs/calipers etc that were bought over the net at a great price, but are not approved by the vehicles manufacturer, then your in deep sh*t.

At first the customer id delighted - you have given him a great price on his service, but

If when something goes wrong, he's suddenly back on blaming you for killing his three kids, maiming his wife, and running over the neighbours dog (slight OTT)

People dont understand, that dealers are bound by the manufacturer to use certain parts, that are more expensive than eqivilent parts from a different maker.

People also dont understand, on the topic of the glass palace showrooms, is that the dealer has more often than not been forced to spend massive amounts of money on his showroom, or risk losing the brand, because it is how the manufacturer wants there product displayed.

Hellrazer

Just checked our prices on an oil change.Based on an oil change for a Volvo S40 1.8.

Oil filter 9.77 + vat
Oil(Castrol 0w40 fully synthetic is our most expensive @ 10 per litre---Semi synthetic is 35.00) 55.00 +vat
Washer 1.00+ vat

Parts total : 65.77
Labour : 50.00 (approx based on your half hour at our labour rate)
Vat on above : 15.62
Total : 131.39
If you use your loyalty card its down to 118.25
I dont think thats bad based on main dealer prices and main dealer genuine parts.

cancan wrote: »

So what would an audi main dealer charge for an oil change in an A4 to take something simple.

Doing my sums...

An OEM A4 oil filter can be bought for 5 euro online--A main dealer filter is at least double this
Oil will cost you 20 euro tops - prob less--What brand of oil--We only use castrol
Labour - 30 mins - we'll assume it the aforementioned Derek who is a bit slow and thick - I would imagine that the mechanic is getting say a healthy 14 euro into his pocket per half hour---Id love to know what mechanic you`d get to work for 28 euros an hour

That gives us costs of 39 euro.
Lets give the healthy 60% margin. (60% margins are not the norm in most industries)

That brings us to 62.4.

If dealers are charging this then it is fair.
If not....

cancan

Drummerboy08 wrote: »

+1

I used to work in the parts dept in a Citroen dealer before my current job.

It is all well and good to buy your parts on the net at a cheap rate, but it is more than likely the part will not be approved by the manufacturer, which will render the warranty useless (if the vehicle would be still covered) and also means that if the vehicle was in an accident due to say, brake failure, just after you replaced the pads/discs/calipers etc that were bought over the net at a great price, but are not approved by the vehicles manufacturer, then your in deep sh*t.

At first the customer id delighted - you have given him a great price on his service, but

If when something goes wrong, he's suddenly back on blaming you for killing his three kids, maiming his wife, and running over the neighbours dog (slight OTT)

People dont understand, that dealers are bound by the manufacturer to use certain parts, that are more expensive than eqivilent parts from a different maker.

People also dont understand, on the topic of the glass palace showrooms, is that the dealer has more often than not been forced to spend massive amounts of money on his showroom, or risk losing the brand, because it is how the manufacturer wants there product displayed.

Genuine Audi filters
http://audi-parts.oemparts.co.uk/products/1_6_2_0_Genuine_Oil_Filter-1780-11.html

I would imagine you'd get a discount buying in bulk.....

OEM parts are available on line - the net is awash with them.....
Ditto oil.
Why are ye using syntethetic oil in a 1.8 volvo is beyond me....

Ireland is no different from any other country in the would - there should not be a special markup because we're irish or something.

Ye are either getting ripped on the parts ye buy or ripping people on those that ye fit.
It's one or the other...

(A lad on these very boards paid 22 euro for an oil filter for a polo from a main dealer to fit himself.
That would be somewhere in the region of 400% possible markup.)

Darragh29

Hellrazer wrote: »

Just checked our prices on an oil change.Based on an oil change for a Volvo S40 1.8.

Oil filter 9.77 + vat
Oil(Castrol 0w40 fully synthetic is our most expensive @ 10 per litre---Semi synthetic is 35.00) 55.00 +vat
Washer 1.00+ vat

Parts total : 65.77
Labour : 50.00 (approx based on your half hour at our labour rate)
Vat on above : 15.62
Total : 131.39
If you use your loyalty card its down to 118.25
I dont think thats bad based on main dealer prices and main dealer genuine parts.

Lets assume you are making 25% on the parts, so that you are buying the part for 49.32 Euro and selling the parts for 65.77 Euro, the profit on parts is 16.44 Euro or as we said, 25%.

If you add that 16.44 Euro to your 50 Euro labour charge on the invoice, you are making 66.45 Euro gross profit on that job, which represents a gross margin of 57.4%. There is nothing greedy or alarming about that margin I think...

-Chris-

cancan wrote: »

Until you are willing to share with the customer the rough margins on both sale and service of cars, people will assume the are being ripped. From what I understand, those margins are a tad on the unreasonable side.

It's a black hole of the industry's creation.

And I hate to break it to you. The first rule of business is, the customer is ALWAYS right, even when they are wrong. People who understand this will still be in business in 2 years time. The rest will disappear.

Out of curiousity, what would you condsier a "resonable margin"?

Can you tell me the margins Tesco make on milk, McDonald's make on a BigMac, your butcher makes on a shank of beef?
If you went into these establishments and asked the question, what answer do you think you'd get?

Margins, and the sources of profits, are extremely sensitive commercial information. Very few businesses will share that info with you.


Reverse the question - what do you consider to be a fair net profit on a €350 service bill? What are you willing to contribute to garage profitability in return for the service they've provided you with?

Anan1 wrote: »

You know what, AudiChris? You're in the wrong industry.:)

Any suggestions? From what I hear, the car industry's dead...

cancan wrote: »

So what would an audi main dealer charge for an oil change in an A4 to take something simple.

Doing my sums...

An OEM A4 oil filter can be bought for 5 euro online.
Oil will cost you 20 euro tops - prob less.
Labour - 30 mins - we'll assume it the aforementioned Derek who is a bit slow and thick - I would imagine that the mechanic is getting say a healthy 14 euro into his pocket per half hour.

That gives us costs of 39 euro.
Lets give the healthy 60% margin. (60% margins are not the norm in most industries)

That brings us to 62.4.

If dealers are charging this then it is fair.
If not....

What about light, heat, rent, insurance, support staff, insurance etc. etc.
Your sums above are too basic to be of any use to the conversation.

Hellrazer

cancan wrote: »

Genuine Audi filters
http://audi-parts.oemparts.co.uk/products/1_6_2_0_Genuine_Oil_Filter-1780-11.html

I would imagine you'd get a discount buying in bulk.....

OEM parts are available on line - the net is awash with them.....
Ditto oil.
Why are ye using syntethetic oil in a 1.8 volvo is beyond me....

Ireland is no different from any other country in the would - there should not be a special markup because we're irish or something.

Ye are either getting ripped on the parts ye buy or ripping people on those that ye fit.
It's one or the other...

I only put the price of the fully synthetic in because its our most expensive.As for getting ripped off on the parts prices--we have no choice.We have to buy from Volvo.Im not debating that I can buy cheaper parts online but if I was to fill the shelves with non-genuine parts( ie. no Volvo box)then we could lose our franchise.

-Chris-

Hellrazer wrote: »

I only put the price of the fully synthetic in because its our most expensive.As for getting ripped off on the parts prices--we have no choice.We have to buy from Volvo.Im not debating that I can buy cheaper parts online but if I was to fill the shelves with non-genuine parts( ie. no Volvo box)then we could lose our franchise.

This is just the same as if I had a watch shop with a Swatch franchise, and I started sourcing spares & watches from overseas or on ebay, I'd fully expect Swatch to b*llock me out of it or to take my franchise away.

Of course, I could continue to source those, sell them for cheaper and just continue trading based on my reputation rather than the Swatch brand, but then I'd be called an indy watch retailer...

cancan

Hellrazer wrote: »

I only put the price of the fully synthetic in because its our most expensive.As for getting ripped off on the parts prices--we have no choice.We have to buy from Volvo.Im not debating that I can buy cheaper parts online but if I was to fill the shelves with non-genuine parts( ie. no Volvo box)then we could lose our franchise.

Which is in a nutshell is why the motor industry is bolloxed in ireland.


So if anyone out there is feeling mechanical, and is able to use the internet, I would suggest the following.

Wait a few months for the dealers not to change their ways.

Rent an old dealership that goes wallop for peanuts, and no-one will want one.

Stock your parts dept with stuff from the internet.

Provide a good honest cheap service to people with the savings from above.
(ie: bring irish profit margins and costs in line with the rest of the world)

Make your profit from volume, not gouging.

Watch the money roll in.

Either current dealers get on the blower to their distributors and demand change, or they are screwed.