Motor Trade RIP (1888-2008)

digitaldr

Personally I get my car serviced at the main dealer and have them ring me before doing anything too major e.g. changing brake pads. If I don't like the price I get my mechanic neighbour to do it for me. That way I still get the service book stamped and save a few euro into the bargain. When I sold my last car I explained all this to the guy I sold it to and he was grand with it (kept all receipts etc)

pred racer

Darragh29 wrote: »

I don't think you understand how the industry works. A good indy garage does timing belts, clutches, any repair work, to the same standard as a main dealer. Contary to what you say above, mechanics wages in main dealerships are the lowest in the industry. Main dealership principals have been making an absolute KILLING in recent years, with apprentices doing most of the volume of work, work which is being charged out at over 100 Euro an hour, while the guy doing the job is probably on equal to or less than the minimum wage!

At the end of the day, only half the problem is within the industry. There is a problem on the customer side as well.

sorry I wasnt very clear, i meant well paid mechanics compared to the grease monkeys in my new jiffy lube who would be on min wage!!:D

and i know indies can do all that work, what i was trying to say is that a good mechanic with good diagnostic skills and experience on your model of car is prob worth the charge when youre in trouble.

you can place the problem back on the customer, im trying to tell you what our perception of the motor industry is(be it right or wrong) and asking what ye think would improve it??, and at the end of the day its not the customer who is going broke.

and btw...of course I understand how the industry works, ive been a customer of the motor trade for 20 years. im not a mechanic, but im not fcukin stupid either.

knifey_spoonie

cancan wrote: »

Just as a final note, based off the figures that all those in the know are spouting.

Why are Irish dealers specifically not able to keep their costs under control?

The UK seem to be able to manage it to keep it fairly resonable.

Bad management?

Just a note on what you are spouting

How do you know what the profit margins are in uk dealerships?, do you work in one or own one?, im just interested to know how you can get hold of the running costs of a uk garage

What i also dont understand, is that you repeatedly give out about profitering in the motor trade, but now you turn around and almost give out to someone for not making huge profit.Why is that have they just put a big hole in you argument??

You seem to be the man with all the answers, why dont you go and buy one of these garages which will go into liquidation, hey you will make a bomb and also become everyones best friend because you will be so upfront a clear.You will undercut all the competition and your business will grow.

Hey you may turn out to be the next Bill Cullen, You could call your book "Not so far away from penny services"

But somehow i dont see you having the balls to get up off you arse and do this, you have all the answers, go on put me to shame and show me up.

Its all very well having the idea put them into practice in the business world and try survive.

Lastly dont forget that it is in peoples nature to dislike hand over money, this is espically true when you cant even see what the money is gone towards.

Darragh29

First of all what is needed is a new professional organisation for those in the industry who have a passion for what they do and believe in their contribution to the industry.

The problem here isn't what is charged, it is what is percieved as poor value for money on the basis of what is charged. If you get a carpenter in or a plumber or a builder, you usually have an extension or new floors or a new bathroom to admire for the money you have spent. When it comes to the car, the value often isn't tangible, you can't touch it or feel it.

What is needed is a new customer charter and a customer forum, in the context of a new representative organisation for the industry. What is also needed is a regular open forum/conference for the people involved in the industry where fresh thinking and new ideas can emerge and be discussed in a positive and receptive environment.

What is happening now is like a biblical great flood for the industry in Ireland. Many will drown and that will be the end of them. But those that are around afterwards, I hope they will organise themselves in a way that brings some long overdue credibility and respect to the people who work in the industry.

reverandkenjami

Darragh29 wrote: »

The problem here isn't what is charged, it is what is percieved as poor value for money on the basis of what is charged. If you get a carpenter in or a plumber or a builder, you usually have an extension or new floors or a new bathroom to admire for the money you have spent. When it comes to the car, the value often isn't tangible, you can't touch it or feel it.

Well said Darragh, always wonder why the majority of people have no problem buying a nice shiny car for €30k+, pay it on finance over 5 years but can't believe when they are handed a €350 bill for a service! Surely maintenance costs are researched before buying a new car!!

Captain Slow IRL

Darragh29 wrote: »

What is happening now is like a biblical great flood for the industry in Ireland. Many will drown and that will be the end of them. But those that are around afterwards, I hope they will organise themselves in a way that brings some long overdue credibility and respect to the people who work in the industry.

I can see the exact opposite happening - the dodgy ones that'll rob the eye out of your head will still be around because they've maintained enough selfishness to suck as much as they can and give as little as possible.

junkyard

Captain Slow IRL wrote: »

I can see the exact opposite happening - the dodgy ones that'll rob the eye out of your head will still be around because they've maintained enough selfishness to suck as much as they can and give as little as possible.

So true, it's the same in every business, the honest ones never made enough to see them through the bad times and the dishonest ones will survive for years because they robbed so much for so long.

Darragh29

Captain Slow IRL wrote: »

I can see the exact opposite happening - the dodgy ones that'll rob the eye out of your head will still be around because they've maintained enough selfishness to suck as much as they can and give as little as possible.

I don't think this will happen, because the more I look at this recession, the more I see that what is fuelling it to a large degree is not just the credit crunch or negative consumer sentiment. I think what is fuelling this recession is that people are genuinely and completely pis*ed off to their two back teeth now and are to a certain degree angry and furious and are collectively punishing the wealthy business class of this country for the insanity of what was going on for the last few years, crazy prices being demanded for houses and cars. I think this is happening in the property market and it is also happening in the motor industry. Yes we can blame the banks for giving us the money and all the rest of it, but a lot of people in this country have been led into keeping up with the Jones's and they appear to be furious now because they feel that they have been conned or played as part of a game.

This simmering anger I think will put a lot of businesses into the history books. Some businesses may be better capitalised to weather this storm, but if you have a showroom now with excess stock and you have current assets devaluating by 10K-20K upwards a month becasue they are going nowhere, on top of business operating costs, no matter how well capitalised you might be, you will eventually run out of working capital.

In boom times, the dealer wins, in recessionary times, I think the dealer will lose, especially the dealer that is in denial with regard to the recession, which the whole lot of them seem to me to be in...

-Chris-

cancan wrote: »

Why are Irish dealers specifically not able to keep their costs under control?

The UK seem to be able to manage it to keep it fairly resonable.

Bad management?
Lack of business skills?
Gross ineptitude?

Yeah, because the UK dealers are doing it so well...

TheIrishTimes wrote:

The offers come on the back of the worst year this decade for British car dealers, who have so far sold 185,000 fewer new cars compared to 2007. Over 200 British dealers are expected go out of business by Christmas.

...from today's Irish Times

I'm happier with the discussion about the perceived problems, which I can work to fix, rather than trying to combat your intransigent opinion that dealers make too much money, which they don't deserve, and if they don't make enough money, it's because they pi$$ed it away because they're inept & greedy.
There has to be more to it than that...

-Chris-

Darragh29 wrote: »

In boom times, the dealer wins, in recessionary times, I think the dealer will lose, especially the dealer that is in denial with regard to the recession, which the whole lot of them seem to me to be in...

I don't think the dealer I work for is in denial, I'm hoping we come out the other side of this downturn leaner and stronger.

A question for you all, it's a little long and meandering, but bear with me...
I know what people feel the problems are from looking through the thread, I know what they'd like to see change and I know how they think they've been treated unfairly.
Let's presume I'm going to walk up to my boss tomorrow, I'm going to try and be one of the proactive employees who comes up with solutions rather than bitching about problems. I'm going to try to make sure I'm working for a "new century" dealership rather than one of the legacy dinosaurs that are being described here (and who will soon become extinct).

What 3 concrete actions should I suggest we implement with immediate effect?

If we come up with concrete, actionable, realistic suggestions, I'll bring them up with my boss and see why they can or can't be done.
Noone here knows where I work, I'm letting no corporate secrets out by making suggestions and letting you know whether we're prepared to consider them.
I'd like to see whether the opinionated and interested people on this thread can agree on a set of "next actions", and I'm equally curious to see, when presented with ideas that have been formulated by customers for the improvement of the dealership, whether the dealer I work for will show any inclination to put those ideas into practice.

Go!

Darragh29

AudiChris wrote: »

Yeah, because the UK dealers are doing it so well...




I'm happier with the discussion about the perceived problems, which I can work to fix, rather than trying to combat your intransigent opinion that dealers make too much money, which they don't deserve, and if they don't make enough money, it's because they pi$$ed it away because they're inept & greedy.
There has to be more to it than that...

I have two takes on this when it comes to the main dealer. I'm biased for a start and I'll admit that, because the playing field is tilted very much in favour of main dealerships or at least this has been my experience.

We should not tolerate a two tier industry, where one tier has the extremely profitable work and another tier gets the scraps of what's left and this is what has happened...

The industry is dysfunctional in my opinion and the reason for this is because it is led by vested interests. People who have something to lose through change will always oppose change, so this is why we should expect no change once we have the current SIMI leadership representing the industry.

reverandkenjami

Darragh29 wrote: »

I have two takes on this when it comes to the main dealer. I'm biased for a start and I'll admit that, because the playing field is tilted very much in favour of main dealerships or at least this has been my experience.

We should not tolerate a two tier industry, where one tier has the extremely profitable work and another tier gets the scraps of what's left and this is what has happened...

In what ways Darragh?

ninty9er

AudiChris wrote: »

I don't think the dealer I work for is in denial, I'm hoping we come out the other side of this downturn leaner and stronger.

A question for you all, it's a little long and meandering, but bear with me...
I know what people feel the problems are from looking through the thread, I know what they'd like to see change and I know how they think they've been treated unfairly.
Let's presume I'm going to walk up to my boss tomorrow, I'm going to try and be one of the proactive employees who comes up with solutions rather than bitching about problems. I'm going to try to make sure I'm working for a "new century" dealership rather than one of the legacy dinosaurs that are being described here (and who will soon become extinct).

What 3 concrete actions should I suggest we implement with immediate effect?

If we come up with concrete, actionable, realistic suggestions, I'll bring them up with my boss and see why they can or can't be done.
Noone here knows where I work, I'm letting no corporate secrets out by making suggestions and letting you know whether we're prepared to consider them.
I'd like to see whether the opinionated and interested people on this thread can agree on a set of "next actions", and I'm equally curious to see, when presented with ideas that have been formulated by customers for the improvement of the dealership, whether the dealer I work for will show any inclination to put those ideas into practice.

Go!

You're not the MD so you probably won't be aware of the reserve on the balance sheet, but 1 thing I would say is, make a loss on EVERY car if need be, just to get rid. If a 07 A4 2.0 170 in good nick was worth €35/37k in January, it's worth about €27.5k now for example. If you took it in at €33k, that's a loss of €5k, if you have 100 cars at that loss you're looking at half a million €uro. Notwithstanding that losses don't look good, if the bulk is there in the balance sheet to allow it, take the hit for now to secure customers for the future, what else is an effing reserve for if not that?

BostonB

They'll make it back in servicing, parts most probably.

copacetic

AudiChris wrote: »

I don't think the dealer I work for is in denial, I'm hoping we come out the other side of this downturn leaner and stronger.

A question for you all, it's a little long and meandering, but bear with me...
I know what people feel the problems are from looking through the thread, I know what they'd like to see change and I know how they think they've been treated unfairly.
Let's presume I'm going to walk up to my boss tomorrow, I'm going to try and be one of the proactive employees who comes up with solutions rather than bitching about problems. I'm going to try to make sure I'm working for a "new century" dealership rather than one of the legacy dinosaurs that are being described here (and who will soon become extinct).

What 3 concrete actions should I suggest we implement with immediate effect?

If we come up with concrete, actionable, realistic suggestions, I'll bring them up with my boss and see why they can or can't be done.
Noone here knows where I work, I'm letting no corporate secrets out by making suggestions and letting you know whether we're prepared to consider them.
I'd like to see whether the opinionated and interested people on this thread can agree on a set of "next actions", and I'm equally curious to see, when presented with ideas that have been formulated by customers for the improvement of the dealership, whether the dealer I work for will show any inclination to put those ideas into practice.

Go!

no-one knows Chris?!?;)

My advice - look at what you are offering as trade in for 06, 07 and 08 cars. These values appear to now be based on what other people can import for. This was actually said to me by a dealer.

Take these prices, add a reasonable amount and reprice your cars.

Eg, say you are offering someone 22k for their 07 A4. They see basically the same car on the forecourt for 32k. Of course they think they are being shafted. How come the market price for their trade in is so much lower than what you are trying to sell you cars at? (made up example but pretty close)

I know I have been harping on about this for 9 months or so, but it is still valid. Customers can live with poor value for their trade ins, but not when dealers expect them to pay over the odds for the dealers' own cars.

I tried very hard to work out a deal with numerous dealers over the last 6 months. It couldn't be done unless I was willing to bend over.

In the end I've been forced to look to the UK, which really isn't what I wanted to do. It has also really soured me on Audi as a brand to be honest. As it turns out I will be much better off than I would have been even if I had worked out what I felt was a reasonable deal with a dealer here.

cancan

knife_fighter wrote: »

Just a note on what you are spouting

How do you know what the profit margins are in uk dealerships?, do you work in one or own one?, im just interested to know how you can get hold of the running costs of a uk garage

What i also dont understand, is that you repeatedly give out about profitering in the motor trade, but now you turn around and almost give out to someone for not making huge profit.Why is that have they just put a big hole in you argument??

You seem to be the man with all the answers, why dont you go and buy one of these garages which will go into liquidation, hey you will make a bomb and also become everyones best friend because you will be so upfront a clear.You will undercut all the competition and your business will grow.

Hey you may turn out to be the next Bill Cullen, You could call your book "Not so far away from penny services"

But somehow i dont see you having the balls to get up off you arse and do this, you have all the answers, go on put me to shame and show me up.

Its all very well having the idea put them into practice in the business world and try survive.

Lastly dont forget that it is in peoples nature to dislike hand over money, this is espically true when you cant even see what the money is gone towards.

I know what they charge and as a customer, I don't care about their costs. That is their problem. Business 101.

And your solution is?
No point knocking me if you can't even demonstrate one positive thought.

What we have here is a bunch of people trying to justify robbing people, and a bunch of people wondering why they are being robbed.

While I admire the fact that some in the industry are willing to talk shop on a public forum, I think it's pretty clear from the last 20 pages that change is needed.

And if you have a garage for rent real soon, PM me.

Drummerboy08

I do agree with a lot of people in here - dealers need to start moving stock. Fast. If that means taking the hit on it, maybe it will turn out to be the best money lost. The fact that a dealer cannot take your trade in because they have too much stock is not acceptable.

I think its been fairly weel established here why getting a service done at a main dealer is more expensive than an indy.

However there is no point in saying how to fix it is the dealers problem - i get the feeling no matter what will be done wont be good enough in the eyes of certain people.

Hellrazer

AudiChris wrote: »

What 3 concrete actions should I suggest we implement with immediate effect?



Go!

Ok heres how I see that the industry needs to change.Theres more than 3 though.

1.Most main dealers have 3,4,5 directors--Why??These blokes are milking the profits off the top.Surely 1 director/general manager is enough for a main dealer.

2.Used cars should be sold at a loss---Get rid of your stock and take a hit on it.This would get the market moving again especially if the price is fair.Also stop trying to rip sales customers off by taking their trade in at a stupid price and then retailing it at way above what the trade in value was.

3.Do away with this "manufacturers servicing shedule"---If a customer wants an oil change--then do an oil change at a decent price.

4.Dealers should have a "fast fit" service for all makes and models and not specific to their brand.Oil changes,minor services etc.

5.Parts departments should be allowed to source their stock elsewhere and not from their franchises supplier.And there should be no consequences of not using "genuine" parts for the customer ie loss of waranty etc.


No doubt Ill come up with some more before the end of the day.

Cookie_Monster

ned78 wrote: »

I think the last few points are very valid. Garages do not make 100% markup on a price, the same as any HiFi store selling a TV for 300 Euro does not make a profit of 300 Euro. A garage at best is making 35% profit on parts, which is the same as most industries.

35% profit is very high IMO. there is a difference between company profit and profit per part of course, but I'm sure most business would like to be making 10% (total company) profit at the end of the day. From the business i've worked in this is about right or at the high end

Profit and markup are also very different things and should not be used interchangibly. you may have a 500% markup but only a 10% profit after cost are considered

galwaytt

Fwiw, Western Motors in Galway, VAG dealers, recently gave up/lost/whatever, the Merc dealership.

As part of their PR, they wrote to all their customers, telling them of this, and in the letter was explained they were going to invest and develop the VAG brands further.

Part of this included a new (existing ?) dealership in the North East (Dundalk/Drogheda ?) iirc, at a cost of..........Eur 11,000,000.

Yep, 11 Million Euro :eek:

Now you know why main dealer rates are what they are. Repayments on Eur 11m are............an awful, awful, lot.

My local indy, oth, has a premises that cost less than a lot his customer's cars............


Oh, btw, on Monday in the UK, I visited an Audi dealership. A brand spanking new A6 170bhp Multitronic, with leather..........GBP£ 27K incl VAT. Someone posted here recently (can't find the post), which had an excel spreadsheet in it, and now you can import a new car, pay all taxes, and save....Eur 9,000.

Whatever about used imports, new imports really is the death knell of a sales trade here...........

FWIW, they had a new Audi TT 2.0 170bhp Quattro DIESEL, too. GBP£29,700, and due to COME DOWN next week (VAT reduction). Fuggin' ell !! 139gCO2/km.......woo hoo, cheap tax !!

Drummerboy08

I'm not being smart, but would you spend the best part of 30k on a Passat, or 50-60k on an A6 supplied from a geezer in a portacabin?......:rolleyes:

-Chris-

Wow, we had 341 posts in 60 hours - an average of 5.7 posts per hour - but it's gone pretty quiet ever since I asked for suggestions about how to fix the problems....

@Ninty9er - we're already eating into reserves and selling cars at a loss. I'm not privy to the detail, but I do know that we're all ready there.

@Copacetic - I'm not sure how to deal with that one. We're already selling cars at a loss, and it's as a consequence of this that we're pricing trade-ins low - we don't want to dig even further into that hole. I don't know if I can influence that.

@Hellrazer - I don't know how well your suggestion of less Directors will go down, I don't expect my bosses to start firing themselves. I don't think it's a real concern though.
Manufacturers service schedule is outside of dealer's control
Fast fit is already available, and offering this service wouldn't negate our requirement to hold the full set of Audi diagnostic equiment etc. - offering this service wouldn't reduce overheads.

I'd be interested to see what kind of leeway the parts dept has with regards to sourcing things like washers/seals etc. I don't think they'd be able to move away from "genuine" filters and the like.


Anyone have any ideas that could be used in a sentence like:
"Hey boss, I think that, as of today, we should do <insert suggestion here>. I really think it will help our customers."

For example:
"Hey boss, I think that, as of today, we should offer menu pricing on our services - charge by the job rather than by the hour. I think we should post those rates on our website. I really think it will help our customers."

Zube

ned78 wrote: »

When they bring their car to a main Dealer, unless that Dealer is a complete muppet, they usually get their car back the same day.

We are indeed going in circles, because people have been saying since the start of the thread that many Main Dealers are indeed complete muppets, and that's being polite.

Drummerboy08

AudiChris,

I think everyone is gone to research their info of a dealer ripping off a customer within the last 100 years or so......:rolleyes:

Funny thing, i read an article yesterday of a dealer in NI being fined for replacing and invoicing a customer €1200 or something ridiculous, for a part that was perfect....

Here was me thinking it was only irish dealers capable of doing this.....

Darragh29

galwaytt wrote: »

Fwiw, Western Motors in Galway, VAG dealers, recently gave up/lost/whatever, the Merc dealership.

As part of their PR, they wrote to all their customers, telling them of this, and in the letter was explained they were going to invest and develop the VAG brands further.

Part of this included a new (existing ?) dealership in the North East (Dundalk/Drogheda ?) iirc, at a cost of..........Eur 11,000,000.

Yep, 11 Million Euro :eek:

Now you know why main dealer rates are what they are. Repayments on Eur 11m are............an awful, awful, lot.

My local indy, oth, has a premises that cost less than a lot his customer's cars............


Oh, btw, on Monday in the UK, I visited an Audi dealership. A brand spanking new A6 170bhp Multitronic, with leather..........GBP£ 27K incl VAT. Someone posted here recently (can't find the post), which had an excel spreadsheet in it, and now you can import a new car, pay all taxes, and save....Eur 9,000.

Whatever about used imports, new imports really is the death knell of a sales trade here...........

FWIW, they had a new Audi TT 2.0 170bhp Quattro DIESEL, too. GBP£29,700, and due to COME DOWN next week (VAT reduction). Fuggin' ell !! 139gCO2/km.......woo hoo, cheap tax !!

Well I wouldn't like to be looking down at the business end of a very recently completed 11,000,000 Euro dealership built within the last 12 months, based on current trading conditions...

Darragh29

AudiChris wrote: »

Anyone have any ideas that could be used in a sentence like:
"Hey boss, I think that, as of today, we should do <insert suggestion here>. I really think it will help our customers."

For example:
"Hey boss, I think that, as of today, we should offer menu pricing on our services - charge by the job rather than by the hour. I think we should post those rates on our website. I really think it will help our customers."

I can't understand why basic information like labour rates and fixed price scheduled tasks like servicing and timing belts are not automatically up on a website to begin with. This is the problem, we have an industry where everyone is out for themselves and absolutely central to meeting this mindset, is that the customer must be kept stupid and ill informed.

This lack of basic fundamental information must be fuelling the extraordinary amount of cynicism that exists in relation to the industry.

On the other side of the coin though, people need to understand that with car ownership comes car maintenance. If this basic equality causes a difficulty for you, then ultimately this is the point in time where you should buy a bike.

I said above that the industry is a two tiered industry, with main dealerships dictating to customers and illegally misinforming customers at times, where they MUST get their vehicle serviced or maintained.

I've seen the point made here in this forum many times that there are only two options when it comes to aftersales:

(1) Main dealer

(2) A "back street" garage.

The truth is that this is what the main dealer would have you believe. If this is the perception out there, it is not correct in my opinion, and it is only because the independent part of the motor industry have not organised themselves properly, which is understandable, given that the organisation that represents them is completely controlled by main dealer vested interests...

robtri

There is a huge amount of complaining at the dealer here, a lot of the issues been faced in the market is not the dealers fault...

low priced trade in's.... well since nobody is buying used cars, there is a glut of cars in the market, taking into account business deals agreed last year and even earlier this year, with the likes of car rental companies, fleet management companies, dealers are still getting and having to pay the agreed prices for these cars, so with a glut in the market the value of items drop... a natural business scale, your investment(your car) isn't worth as much now as it has been in the past well thats not the dealers fault.
Dealers in the recent years have been forced by the manufacturers to buy and develop these €11million showrooms, most of them don't want to do it but they have no choice as it is dictated by the manufacturer. Do you think main dealers actually want different showrooms for different marque's instead of one building covering them all?? its cheaper to build one building than 3....

how do the dealers change their business, I am not sure, but selling items at a loss is not the answer....

Darragh29

Here's another suggestion, again it flies in the face of the transparency gap that I think the vested interests that exist in the industry, will do their very best to maintain.

If I was a successful garage, I'd be taking a leaf out of this book...

http://www.goodgaragescheme.co.uk/

Where customers can leave feedback and transparency is obviously working well...

I don't know if it would work over here though because my experience has been that for someone people, no matter what you do, they will never be happy, because as I've already said, their REAL issue is not you and your business, it's them knowing in the back of their head that they cannot afford to pay their invoice, no matter how modest it might be! I said before, my experience has taught me that 20% of your customer base will fit into this category...

Darragh29

robtri wrote: »

There is a huge amount of complaining at the dealer here, a lot of the issues been faced in the market is not the dealers fault...

low priced trade in's.... well since nobody is buying used cars, there is a glut of cars in the market, taking into account business deals agreed last year and even earlier this year, with the likes of car rental companies, fleet management companies, dealers are still getting and having to pay the agreed prices for these cars, so with a glut in the market the value of items drop... a natural business scale, your investment(your car) isn't worth as much now as it has been in the past well thats not the dealers fault.
Dealers in the recent years have been forced by the manufacturers to buy and develop these €11million showrooms, most of them don't want to do it but they have no choice as it is dictated by the manufacturer. Do you think main dealers actually want different showrooms for different marque's instead of one building covering them all?? its cheaper to build one building than 3....

how do the dealers change their business, I am not sure, but selling items at a loss is not the answer....

An 11,000,000 showroom is not about a manufacturer "making" you build something on this scale! 11,000,000 Euro invested in a dealership is about ego and greed and who has the biggest swinging d*ck in the town... Also, no manufacturer forces 3 marques on a dealer, this is handled on a "per application" basis.

The reason they want to keep branding separate is because they don't want a VW customer, an Audi customer and a Merc customer standing beside one another at a service reception desk and the VW customer being told the labour rate is 85 Euro/Hr and the Audi customer being told that the labour rate is 105 Euro/Hr, and the Merc customer being told that the labour rate is 130 Euro/Hr because the dealership has worked out that the Audi customer has more disposable income than the VW customer and should pay higher charges and the Merc customer has more disposable income than the other two and should have a saddle put on him!

Sorry Chris!

galwaytt

Drummerboy08 wrote: »

I'm not being smart, but would you spend the best part of 30k on a Passat, or 50-60k on an A6 supplied from a geezer in a portacabin?......:rolleyes:

Who said anything about a portakabin ? It's a workshop with (iirc) 4 lifts, tyrebay, paint booth and pit, and iirc......5 employees.

Granted, no SIMI-Daily News to read (:rolleyes:), or rubber plants to hide behind, but if I wanted to live there, those two items would probably be......er, necessary ??:P

Don't confuse 'indy' with cowboy or slipshod. A lot of 'indy's' are, after all, ex-main dealer qualified people themselves......