Motor Trade RIP (1888-2008)

reverandkenjami

Darragh29 wrote: »

An 11,000,000 showroom is not about a manufacturer "making" you build something on this scale! 11,000,000 Euro invested in a dealership is about ego and greed and who has the biggest swinging d*ck in the town... Also, no manufacturer forces 3 marques on a dealer, this is handled on a "per application" basis.

Its nothing to do with dealer ego! The manufacturer has criteria for being allowed to hold their franchise - dealer design, size etc are all part of that! Do ya really think dealers spend millions on building/redesigning just for the sake of ego? Why don't you apply for an Audi/VW/Merc franchise and set it up in a yard? Why? Because the manufacturer will want you to build a showrom to the standards they want!!

In a previous post you also said you can't see why you can't buy parts off a manufacturer at the same cost as a dealer - well why should you be allowed? Dealers have to pay alot of money each year to hold the franchise, this is why they get discounts. Open a dealership if you want dealer prices! Why can't i buy a pioneer plasma tv at the same price as the local dealer? Same reason.

Oh and i'm sure you will find if you ask your local parts manager nicely, you would get some extra discount!

I'm in the parts game,and the one thing that annoys me is guys at the counter saying "geez 10%, is that all i bloody get" , if someone asks nicely any chance of a bit more discount on that 9 times out of 10 i'll give it to them.

Darragh29

reverandkenjami wrote: »

Its nothing to do with dealer ego! The manufacturer has criteria for being allowed to hold their franchise - dealer design, size etc are all part of that! Do ya really think dealers spend millions on building/redesigning just for the sake of ego? Why don't you apply for an Audi/VW/Merc franchise and set it up in a yard? Why? Because the manufacturer will want you to build a showrom to the standards they want!!

In a previous post you also said you can't see why you can't buy parts off a manufacturer at the same cost as a dealer - well why should you be allowed? Dealers have to pay alot of money each year to hold the franchise, this is why they get discounts. Open a dealership if you want dealer prices! Why can't i buy a pioneer plasma tv at the same price as the local dealer? Same reason.

Oh and i'm sure you will find if you ask your local parts manager nicely, you would get some extra discount!

I'm in the parts game,and the one thing that annoys me is guys at the counter saying "geez 10%, is that all i bloody get" , if someone asks nicely any chance of a bit more discount on that 9 times out of 10 i'll give it to them.

I don't know what dealership you are working in but it is extremely difficult to get more than 10% out of a dealer. The argument is not about discount, it's about a middleman being where there is no need for a middleman. You're extending the argument here that I compete with your employer, and that I should at the same time as competing with your employer, also have to buy my parts from him. This is an absolutely crazy situation that in 2008, in an open market, that I HAVE to buy raw materials from someone who is I am competing with. I've likened it here in the past as the obviously ludricious scenario where Ryanair would have to buy jet fuel or replacement aircraft parts from Aer Lingus or vice versa.

Of course you're going to come back with more vested interest bullsh*t about why we can't look at doing it another way, because for a whole variety of "complex reasons" we just can't do it another way or even talk about doing it another way, when I know that the only reason change doesn't happen is because vested interests in this country are always allowed to block it from happening.

I'm currently working with a group of independent garage owners who are preparing a case for submission The Competition Authority, arguing that this whole set up in 2008, of having to buy from parts your competitors, is a restrictive trading practice, is smothering real competition in the industry, is responsbile for the industry being tilted in favour of vested interest main dealers to the detriment of other service providers and is riddled with price fixing arrangements, (which we have been collecting evidence on for the last 6 months) and belong's back in the 1980's.

keefg

Darragh29 wrote: »

If I was a successful garage, I'd be taking a leaf out of this book...

http://www.goodgaragescheme.co.uk/

Where customers can leave feedback and transparency is obviously working well...

...

There is somthing similar already set up here.......www.bestgarages.ie

Unknown Soldier

Darragh29 wrote: »

I don't know what dealership you are working in but it is extremely difficult to get more than 10% out of a dealer. The argument is not about discount, it's about a middleman being where there is no need for a middleman. You're extending the argument here that I compete with your employer, and that I should at the same time as competing with your employer, also have to buy my parts from him. This is an absolutely crazy situation that in 2008, in an open market, that I HAVE to buy raw materials from someone who is I am competing with. I've likened it here in the past as the obviously ludricious scenario where Ryanair would have to buy jet fuel or replacement aircraft parts from Aer Lingus or vice versa.

Of course you're going to come back with more vested interest bullsh*t about why we can't look at doing it another way, because for a whole variety of "complex reasons" we just can't do it another way or even talk about doing it another way, when I know that the only reason change doesn't happen is because vested interests in this country are always allowed to block it from happening.

I'm currently working with a group of independent garage owners who are preparing a case for submission The Competition Authority, arguing that this whole set up in 2008, of having to buy from parts your competitors, is a restrictive trading practice, is smothering real competition in the industry, is responsbile for the industry being tilted in favour of vested interest main dealers to the detriment of other service providers and is riddled with price fixing arrangements, (which we have been collecting evidence on for the last 6 months) and belong's back in the 1980's.

Are you saying that you want to buy the parts directly from the Distributor or do you mean the Factory/Central European Warehouse?

A lot of this thread is filled with errors tbh. In reference to dealers building huge glass palaces? They had to. Block Exemption saw to that. Due to BE anyone can get any franchise. I for example could set up an Audi dealership down the road from Chris. Sadly the standards I would have to meet would restrict me as I don't have the millions to spend to meet the standards set by the Marquee. I'd imagine the special tools cost alone for the franchise run into the 10's of thousands. But then again that is exactly what the various marquees wanted.

And Chris the only way to improve your garage is Aftersales. Simple as. I know DP's who ARE the garage. It does not matter what sign they have above the door. The people keep coming back to them because of the service they get.

I have a simple saying that I used many years ago in an interview. I can sell anybody anything once but the trick is to be able to sell to them again.

That is where a lot of garages fall over. They sell the product and then treat the customer like dirt. Now it may not always get back to the sales people or even the DP in a lot of case. And lies can be told.

Aftersales in this country is shocking.

Darragh29

Unknown Soldier wrote: »

Are you saying that you want to buy the parts directly from the Distributor or do you mean the Factory/Central European Warehouse?

What I'm saying is that I should be able to buy replacement parts on the same terms as my competitors. You'll have loads of main dealer have a go hero's posting back here that this is unworkable, undoable, unfair, this that and a hundred other things. It's 2008, I should be able to open an online account with a distributor, set myself up as a customer and then if a customer wants real choice, he/she can shop around in the knowledge that if he/she gets work done through me, that I'm not buying in an uncompetitive market.

There is another active thread on here extremely critical of dealerships for price fixing in relation to new cars, but this is exactly what is going on and has been going on for as long as I can remember with replacement parts! Every dealer in the country works of an RRP (Recommended Retail Price) list not just given to them but ENFORCED by their distributor. Where is the incentive to compete with each other and shop around when every dealer is singing from the same RRP list compiled by the distributor!?!?!

I ask you, why would a customer choose an independent outlet for work to be done, when they can get the parts from a dealer at the same price as an independent operator???

I've had this discussion before here with folks and they start throwing out absolute stupid rubbish like, "you have to invest tens of thousands of Euro in IT and computer software and IT training and special software training and special shelves and special vans and special staff and special premises, to run a franchised parts department"...! BULLSH*T. It's time to pull down the shutters on this crap and while we are cleaning out our closet in the industry, do it properly.

cancan

reverandkenjami wrote: »

Its nothing to do with dealer ego! The manufacturer has criteria for being allowed to hold their franchise - dealer design, size etc are all part of that! Do ya really think dealers spend millions on building/redesigning just for the sake of ego? Why don't you apply for an Audi/VW/Merc franchise and set it up in a yard? Why? Because the manufacturer will want you to build a showrom to the standards they want!!

In a previous post you also said you can't see why you can't buy parts off a manufacturer at the same cost as a dealer - well why should you be allowed? Dealers have to pay alot of money each year to hold the franchise, this is why they get discounts. Open a dealership if you want dealer prices! Why can't i buy a pioneer plasma tv at the same price as the local dealer? Same reason.

Oh and i'm sure you will find if you ask your local parts manager nicely, you would get some extra discount!

I'm in the parts game,and the one thing that annoys me is guys at the counter saying "geez 10%, is that all i bloody get" , if someone asks nicely any chance of a bit more discount on that 9 times out of 10 i'll give it to them.

Imagine the irish dealer group (SIMI) going to the distributers and telling them to get stuffed collectively.


That is what the SIMI is supposed to do.

You'd think that would be the logical thing to do before setting yourself up to loose 11 million.

How do they expect to make the 11 million back?
Looks like the plan was to overcharge the customer to pay for the shiny showroom. Who exactly wins with that business model? The customer gets shafted, the dealer gets shafted, the banks get shafted.

All car buyers want is a well priced car with well priced maintainence.
If I want luxury, I'll do up my dining room.

The dealers and SIMI should have learnt to grow a pair in the last few years, before setting up the majority of their members for bankrupcy.
Nice job.

Darragh29

cancan wrote: »

Imagine the irish dealer group (SIMI) going to the distributers and telling them to get stuffed collectively.

This would be the same as standing in front of your bathroom mirror and telling yourself to fu*k off... The dealer and the distributor are just two different arms hanging off the same body.

Anan1

Darragh29 wrote: »

This would be the same as standing in front of your bathroom mirror and telling yourself to fu*k off...

fightin irish

Darragh29 wrote: »

What I'm saying is that I should be able to buy replacement parts on the same terms as my competitors. Every dealer in the country works of an RRP (Recommended Retail Price) list not just given to them but ENFORCED by their distributor. Where is the incentive to compete with each other and shop around when every dealer is singing from the same RRP list compiled by the distributor!?!?!

Well i buy an oil filter for say fiestas that retail at €6.02. Now because i sign a contract with Ford that i'll buy x amount of these i recieve 60% discount.

Now when i'm selling to my IMT or indy customers (who are my bread and butter btw i.e YOU)) I HAVE to give 30% trade discount and at times 40% because he will just go down the road to any of the other 11 Ford dealers in Dublin and get it cheaper. This disputes your competition argument, In Ford and in Dublin.

There is huge competition in Dublin anyways. We all work off the one RRP but Ford give us these discounts to do as we like with them.

Now in saying all that if i buy in a service kit for say an Audi, Honda etc for our workshop i myself (a ford main dealer) only gets 10%.

reverandkenjami

Darragh29 wrote: »

I don't know what dealership you are working in but it is extremely difficult to get more than 10% out of a dealer. The argument is not about discount, it's about a middleman being where there is no need for a middleman. You're extending the argument here that I compete with your employer, and that I should at the same time as competing with your employer, also have to buy my parts from him. This is an absolutely crazy situation that in 2008, in an open market, that I HAVE to buy raw materials from someone who is I am competing with. I've likened it here in the past as the obviously ludricious scenario where Ryanair would have to buy jet fuel or replacement aircraft parts from Aer Lingus or vice versa.

I'm currently working with a group of independent garage owners who are preparing a case for submission The Competition Authority, arguing that this whole set up in 2008, of having to buy from parts your competitors, is a restrictive trading practice, is smothering real competition in the industry, is responsbile for the industry being tilted in favour of vested interest main dealers to the detriment of other service providers and is riddled with price fixing arrangements, (which we have been collecting evidence on for the last 6 months) and belong's back in the 1980's.

Darragh29 wrote: »

What I'm saying is that I should be able to buy replacement parts on the same terms as my competitors. You'll have loads of main dealer have a go hero's posting back here that this is unworkable, undoable, unfair, this that and a hundred other things. It's 2008, I should be able to open an online account with a distributor, set myself up as a customer and then if a customer wants real choice, he/she can shop around in the knowledge that if he/she gets work done through me, that I'm not buying in an uncompetitive market.

There is another active thread on here extremely critical of dealerships for price fixing in relation to new cars, but this is exactly what is going on and has been going on for as long as I can remember with replacement parts! Every dealer in the country works of an RRP (Recommended Retail Price) list not just given to them but ENFORCED by their distributor. Where is the incentive to compete with each other and shop around when every dealer is singing from the same RRP list compiled by the distributor!?!?!

I ask you, why would a customer choose an independent outlet for work to be done, when they can get the parts from a dealer at the same price as an independent operator???

I've had this discussion before here with folks and they start throwing out absolute stupid rubbish like, "you have to invest tens of thousands of Euro in IT and computer software and IT training and special software training and special shelves and special vans and special staff and special premises, to run a franchised parts department"...! BULLSH*T. It's time to pull down the shutters on this crap and while we are cleaning out our closet in the industry, do it properly.

Darragh, your competing with them in terms of labour. You are not a parts supplier. We compete with Motor Factors and other dealers.

RRP's are just that - recommended prices. These are not enforced in any way or form at least in the fanchise i work with. Whats the point in shopping around then? If you ring around, some places will offer you more discount than others. That IS competition. Say for instance you ring dealer X to price a part and he offers you 10% discount, you ring dealer Y and you tell me you got a price of €xx.xx from dealer X, he is going to try better that price to get the custom. Its business.

Good luck with your case! The competition authority can do sweet f all because you can in fact already buy direct, block exemption sorted that out, but the fact is the Manufacturer will make it difficult for you to do so. Dealers can have the parts next day, they would probably make you wait a week etc. It won't work! If you don't like the prices, source the parts elsewhere. You don't have rules regarding the use of genuine parts hanging over your head like daelers!

Why don't we all bypass the middleman in everything. Go direct to Brennan's for our bread, Avonmore for milk, so on so on.

You seem to be the only 'have a go hero' here. You are not buying in an uncompetitive market. You get 10% discount on parts, cars in a dealer workshop get 0%, there's competition right there!

Conclusion:

Manufacturers in everything(not just cars/parts) want to have distributors/dealers. There is nothing to stop you buying direct, but they will make it very difficult! And this is the dealers problem because..........................................................................................

Dealers are franchises

Wikipedia wrote:

Franchising refers to the methods of practicing and using another person's philosophy of business. The franchisor grants the independent operator the right to distribute its products, techniques, and trademarks for a percentage of gross monthly sales and a royalty fee. Various tangibles and intangibles such as national or international advertising, training, and other support services are commonly made available by the franchisor. Agreements typically last five to twenty years, with premature cancellations or terminations of most contracts bearing serious consequences for franchisees.

Starting and operating a franchise business carries expenses. In choosing to adopt the standards set by the franchisor, the franchisee often has no further choice as to signage, shop fitting, uniforms etc. The franchisee may not be allowed to source less expensive alternatives. Added to that is the franchise fee and ongoing royalties and advertising contributions. The contract may also bind the franchisee to such alterations as demanded by the franchisor from time to time.

Why not take on every franchise in the country while your at it Darragh

fightin irish wrote: »

Now in saying all that if i buy in a service kit for say an Audi, Honda etc for our workshop i myself (a ford main dealer) only gets 10%.

Not every dealer gets 60% discount on parts! I wish we did anyways, can't speak for the rest. Our buying discount on service items is 30% so as ya can see we are retaing the same 20% as you on trade customers!

fightin irish

reverandkenjami wrote: »

Not every dealer gets 60% discount on parts! I wish we did anyways, can't speak for the rest. Our buying discount on service items is 30% so as ya can see we are retaing the same 20% as you on trade customers!

On service items it's 60% and on average 30% on everything else. Thing is all the indys know this. So to keep a hold of our trade customers we have to pass on the discount.

reverandkenjami

fightin irish wrote: »

On service items it's 60% and on average 30% on everything else. Thing is all the indys know this. So to keep a hold of our trade customers we have to pass on the discount.

Which is competition right there! Some of our customers have moved from different dealers because we offer them a higher % discount! If that doesn't count as competition i don't know what does!

If a customer of yours told you he was getting 5% extra discount in the next dealer, would you better that to retain the custom? I know we certainly would- 10-15% of something is better than 0 of nothing!

Darragh29

reverandkenjami wrote: »

Darragh, your competing with them in terms of labour. You are not a parts supplier. We compete with Motor Factors etc.

RRP's are just that - recommended prices. These are not enforced in any way or form at least in the fanchise i work with. Whats the point in shopping around then? If you ring around, some places will offer you more discount than others. That IS competition. Say for instance you ring dealer X to price a part and he offers you 10% discount, you ring dealer Y and you tell me you got a price of €xx.xx from dealer X, he is going to try better that price to get the custom. Its business.

Good luck with your case! The competition authority can do sweet f all because you can in fact already buy direct, block exemption sorted that out, but the fact is the Manufacturer will make it difficult for you to do so. Dealers can have the parts next day, they would probably make you wait a week etc. It won't work! If you don't like the prices, source the parts elsewhere. You don't have rules regarding the use of genuine parts hanging over your head like daelers!

Why don't we all bypass the middleman in everything. Go direct to Brennan's for our bread, Avonmore for milk, so on so on.

You seem to be the only 'have a go hero' here. You are not buying in an uncompetitive market. You get 10% discount on parts, cars in a dealer workshop get 0%, there's competition right there!

If I am buying a part for a customer and selling that part to a customer, I am a parts supplier in the context of that transaction. Just like a motor factor who is supplying me is buying parts from source X and selling parts to customer Y, I'm doing the exact same thing, so I am a parts supplier in the context of the service that I am offering my customers.

If I have a customer who comes to me today for a service and comes back next month looking for a drivers door window regulator replaced, I cannot take that job in without losing money. Now, what I see other indy garages doing is bumping up the labour to offset lack of normal business margin on the parts invoice. Other folks I know just put their own margin of 20% on top of the RRP and that resolves that issue...

You will find that in relation to your example with Brennan's Bread and Avonmore Milk, that Brennan's Bread don't have to pop down to Pat The Baker to buy the flour and the same goes for Avonmore with the milk. This is where you point falls down. I've no problem with middlemen, but I have a huge problem with vested interest middlemen who are fu*king up the trade.

Also, how come I can go up north of the border and get main dealer parts for usually less than 50% of what I get quoted for the exact same part down here???

Darragh29

reverandkenjami wrote: »

Which is competition right there! Some of our customers have moved from different dealers because we offer them a higher % discount! If that doesn't count as competition i don't know what does!

If a customer of yours told you he was getting 5% extra discount in the next dealer, would you better that to retain the custom? I know we certainly would- 10-15% of something is better than 0 of nothing!

If your not maintaining a margin of 30% on parts, your not maintaining your business margin and you are losing money.

Unknown Soldier

Darragh29 wrote: »

You will find that in relation to your example with Brennan's Bread and Avonmore Milk, that Brennan's Bread don't have to pop down to Pat The Baker to buy the flour and the same goes for Avonmore with the milk. This is where you point falls down. I've no problem with middlemen, but I have a huge problem with vested interest middlemen who are fu*king up the trade.

Darragh29 you are wrong on so many levels. Now don't get me wrong, you are indeed correct in a world of perfectness. But in the real world we live in life is not fair. I think your case is one of socialism.

Why don't you open a factory and make the window regulator? Problem solved. Or import that part from the local country or the original supplier?

By the way you can by the part directly from the distributor. Just ring them up and ask for an Aftesales contact. Meet the standrads and you are off.

The reality is that you can get most normal parts from motor factors and a lot of the rest from the likes of Traynors. You and your friends are on to a loser as a franchise is just that.

Like whats next? Patens are bad? No invention should be just made by it's creator?

srsly.

/Goes of to hassle Samsung to sell me a TV at factory cost.... :rolleyes:

seaniep

I think it's lousy for any good dealer (businessman) to have to read what's thought of them and the ill-will wished upon their fortunes.
My own recent experiences is all I can form an opinion on and as follows:
Trying to buy a new ford (for missus) around this time last year - a grade A pain in the bollix with dealers not bothering to even look at trade-in or phone back etc etc.
Trying to get info and price on A4 latter end of this year just as bad with sales guys useless and lazy. Any car nut would have better knowledege of the product and what sort of queries a potential customer might have. Turned me totally off the brand - maybe my loss who knows... wound up ordering a 220d cos at least they looked at me when talking.
Sevriced the Ford (at the place who actually rang me back) recently at 20k cost E140 - hardly the stuff of ripoff. Cavanaghs in Charleville FWIW.
Saab 9-3 fukkedup during the summer at 155k. Long story short I paid E300 diagnostic charge to get complete new engine including turbo, alternator etc. Turned out that cambelt tensioner snapped which was fitted by main dealer at 120k odd. Without a whinge or a question I was just informed that the engine was on order and on its way from Sweden. Again - hardly the stuff of rip off main dealers.
Give em a break lads or at the very least dont tar em all with the same brush etc etc. As my auld fella used to say - be careful what you wish for just in case you might get it...........
Seaniep.

Hellrazer

Darragh29 wrote: »

If your not maintaining a margin of 30% on parts, your not maintaining your business margin and you are losing money.

Darragh--See my previous post with the discount structures of franchises that Ive worked in on it.
I dont even get 30% from my current franchise supplier.
Are you saying to ramp the price up even more??
That defeats the whole purpose of trying to do away with the rip-off mentality of the public with regards to dealer rip-offs.


We buy and sell at manufacturers recommended retail prices but there are dealers out there who will add 10-12% on to their parts stock value,give extra discount and rip-off customers.

Customer thinks they are getting a great deal but in reality they are actually paying quite close to RRP for the part even with the so called discount.I could name and shame if anyone wants
So another small bit of advice---Dont ask about discount.Check the retail price of the part from a few dealers and work backwards from there in regards to discount.

Heres an example of a typical dealer rip off.

Dealer "A" uses the RRP of €100.00 (+ vat)
Gives 10% discount makes the part €90 (+ vat)--If a customer asked nicely we`d give them 15% on a transaction like this making it €85 + vat.

Dealer B adds 10% to his stock value making the retail price of the same part €110.00.
Gives 10% discount making the part €99.00 + vat
Even offering 15% discount hes still ripping the customer off @ €93.50+ vat.

So again if you dont want to be ripped off---Check the RRP in a few dealers before deciding where to buy.

But bear in mind they prices set by manufacturers are onlyrecommended retail prices.Dealer B is doing nothing illegal.

badinfleunce

Vrt is a tax only applicable to the Irish people and makes the car industry impossible to be competitive in the European market. I feel sorry for the car dealers as they really dont make that much when it comes to selling cars.

I am part of the Uk imports posse and hold my hands up to the fact that I am being disloyal to our own by jumping across the border to avail of the huge discounts in every department.

The fact of the matter is that our government, have brought this on by announcing a change in the VRT system last year. This lead to another mistrust amongst the electorate which halted buyers in their tracks from making any car purchase until the system was passed into law. It also led to the country investigating car imports from the Uk and then saw a huge flock fleeing to our neighbours shores to avail of the 30-40% dicscount. Who'd blame them.

If the government had dropped vrt altogether our car prices would be competitive with our European counterparts and if they dont wake up to the fact that globalisation is now part of everybodies lives and that people have choices being part of europe they will see every industry in the country go down the pan, like so many already have. Drop VRT, Drop Vat rate and stimulate the economy!!

-Chris-

badinfleunce wrote: »

If the government had dropped vrt altogether our car prices would be competitive with our European counterparts and if they dont wake up to the fact that globalisation is now part of everybodies lives and that people have choices being part of europe they will see every industry in the country go down the pan, like so many already have. Drop VRT, Drop Vat rate and stimulate the economy!!

That wouldn't work at all.

Our used cars have been overpriced compared to their UK equivalents, and that, coupled with the current exchange rate, makes importing favorable. Imports are subject to VRT too, so the playing field isn't that unfair when it comes to imports vs "Irish" cars.

Also, abolishing VRT tomorrow wouldn't fix the problem for he reasons above (the playing field isn't that unfair) as well as the more critical massive drop in second hand values you'd see if all new cars were suddenly available ex-VRT.
So many people would be in negative equity etc. the industry would grind to a halt!

But this isn't a VRT thread, so let's not get into this too much...

leon8v

Darragh29 wrote: »

If I have a customer who comes to me today for a service and comes back next month looking for a drivers door window regulator replaced, I cannot take that job in without losing money.

I struggle to see how you are losing money on that. You receive the window regulator from the main dealer with a 10% discount off RRP. You then charge your customer the full RRP on the windown regulator. Straight away you have made 10% of whatever it cost. You then charge them whatever your hourly rate is to fit it, which will have been arrived at after factoring in your overheads which include salaries etc for you. So if you are not making any money on that transaction then maybe you are costing your jobs in the wrong way.

wasper

cowenstaff wrote: »

Sadly missed by all who served and availed of this industry, after providing years of transport facilities for the country and also wages for tens of thousands.

The Industry as we have known it has been obliterated over the last 12 months - 2009 will bring nothing more but redundancies and closures.

When the trade is resurrected over the next decade, retailers as we know them will be replaced by corporate robots with cockney accents, with all profits landing in the middle east.

I have no sympathy for them. And why do they call themselves the Motor Industry? All they do is buy cars from abroad & rip us off.

Drummerboy08

wasper wrote: »

I have no sympathy for them. And why do they call themselves the Motor Industry? All they do is buy cars from abroad & rip us off.

If you have nothing constructive to add, please dont bother leaving a post.

Its not in the interest of anyone.

crocro

There will always be a business servicing cars and reselling second hand cars that have been tidied up and guaranteed.

I don't see a need for new car dealers in the future at all. The manufacturers could have a showroom in each town - like Toyota in ballsbridge only with test drives (possibly paid for).

Configuring a car on the internet is as easy as buying a flight. Even my parents in their 70s spec their own cars online. The car should just arrive outside your front door after a few weeks. Click-click bang.

The dealers adds less than nothing to the transaction. He's just an obstacle I have to work around to get my 7% off. I have to waste a day personally calling into several dealers to get their 'very best price' then return to the original guy to match the best quote.

-Chris-

crocro wrote: »

Configuring a car on the internet is as easy as buying a flight. Even my parents in their 70s spec their own cars online. The car should just arrive outside your front door after a few weeks. Click-click bang.

And once you receive your new car, ordered from the web, you just have to email them your trade-in and the transaction's done...

Drummerboy08

I dont think i'd fancy spendin that kind of money online....

Even the colours - website cant portray the colour of a car as accurate as seeing the car itself. Some colours look completely different on the real car..

reverandkenjami

Darragh29 wrote: »

If your not maintaining a margin of 30% on parts, your not maintaining your business margin and you are losing money.

If you read my previous post you would see we only get 30% margin on 90% of our parts.. So we are losing money on every trade transaction?

Also why should you get as much discount from a manufacterer? You probably buy less than €1000 a month in parts? Dealers buy €250k+. Bulk buying discount and all that

Highsider

wasper wrote: »

I have no sympathy for them. And why do they call themselves the Motor Industry? All they do is buy cars from abroad & rip us off.

That's it in a nutshell TBH. They have being ripping us off for years and years and now they are feeling sorry for themselves:rolleyes:

Hellrazer

fightin irish wrote: »

Well i buy an oil filter for say fiestas that retail at €6.02. Now because i sign a contract with Ford that i'll buy x amount of these i recieve 60% discount.

Now when i'm selling to my IMT or indy customers (who are my bread and butter btw i.e YOU)) I HAVE to give 30% trade discount and at times 40% because he will just go down the road to any of the other 11 Ford dealers in Dublin and get it cheaper. This disputes your competition argument, In Ford and in Dublin.

There is huge competition in Dublin anyways. We all work off the one RRP but Ford give us these discounts to do as we like with them.

Now in saying all that if i buy in a service kit for say an Audi, Honda etc for our workshop i myself (a ford main dealer) only gets 10%.

Well said fightin Irish.

Anyone who doesnt think that there is competition in the parts game is an idiot.You come here and do my job for a week.You have some dealers offering 10%,some offering 20% and all I can do to keep certain customers is to match the discounts that other dealers are offering.

You try and make money when you have to sometimes give away 20% and only keep 7.5% for your costs.


There is huge competition in Dublin anyways. We all work off the one RRP but Ford give us these discounts to do as we like with them.

Its the same here we all get a recommended retail price list from the manufacturer but then we get a discount that we can do what we like with it.With that discount we have to be competitive in offering some of the larger bodyshops/indys more discount cos they will just fook off elsewhere and get the parts at a better price.

Lack of competition my a**e.

cowenstaff

Highsider wrote: »

That's it in a nutshell TBH. They have being ripping us off for years and years and now they are feeling sorry for themselves:rolleyes:

If you have been ripped off for years, where has all the money gone? I would be delighted to read of your personal experiences (btw not receiving a phone call back is bad manners but in no was consitiutes being ripped off - as some contributors seem to believe).

It saddens me to see the aggression towards the motor trade, this is not self pity just a reflection on how poorly the industry as a whole is perceived (even indy versus main dealer).

when everybody has let off their steam over the next day or so. i'll post my feedback (as I was the one who started it) to the hundreds of posts, but initially I recognise that there is a huge gulf of expectation on each side that has to be bridged.

copacetic

AudiChris wrote: »

Our used cars have been overpriced compared to their UK equivalents, and that, coupled with the current exchange rate, makes importing favorable. Imports are subject to VRT too, so the playing field isn't that unfair when it comes to imports vs "Irish" cars.

Agreed, in fact, apart from current exchange rate what imports have going from them is the better prices relative to their cost as new in the UK.

Even year old 'premium' brand cars are widely available in the UK for 35%
of their new value there. Here dealers seem to think that 15% off new value is a great deal.