Motor Trade RIP (1888-2008)

Darragh29 · 28-11-2008 4:51pm

reverandkenjami wrote: »

If you read my previous post you would see we only get 30% margin on 90% of our parts.. So we are losing money on every trade transaction?

Also why should you get as much discount from a manufacterer? You probably buy less than €1000 a month in parts? Dealers buy €250k+. Bulk buying discount and all that

You are saying that you are only making 30% on parts but folks here can't understand me turning my nose up at a 10% discount. I'm not saying that the answer if for you to give me a 30% discount, what I'm saying is that the answer is for your supplier to give me the part on the same terms as you are getting it at.

Of course you are selling 250K parts a month, mainly to suckers like me who have no choice but to deal with you, because vested interests have the industry tilted in your favour. If the market was opened up, I'd be happy to buy all my parts from the distributor. I'd be much happier giving a chassis number and KNOWING that my parts will come in right, rather than taking a chance with a motor factor and possibly parts coming in that are wrong.

At the end of the day, the fact remains that I have to buy from my competitor which is an unsatisfactory situation in any market.

Someone pointed out above that I get a 10% discount and that should be enough, I'm afraid it is nowhere near enough, it simply doesn't even cover the cost of sending someone out to collect the part. It might be enough if you are working from the side of your house and you don't have business liabilities like rent, rates, PAYE, PRSI, PI and road risk insurance, water rates, admin costs, etc, etc, etc, etc.

Darragh29 · 28-11-2008 5:00pm

Unknown Soldier wrote: »

Darragh29 you are wrong on so many levels. Now don't get me wrong, you are indeed correct in a world of perfectness. But in the real world we live in life is not fair. I think your case is one of socialism.

Why don't you open a factory and make the window regulator? Problem solved. Or import that part from the local country or the original supplier?

By the way you can by the part directly from the distributor. Just ring them up and ask for an Aftesales contact. Meet the standrads and you are off.

The reality is that you can get most normal parts from motor factors and a lot of the rest from the likes of Traynors. You and your friends are on to a loser as a franchise is just that.

Like whats next? Patens are bad? No invention should be just made by it's creator?

srsly.

/Goes of to hassle Samsung to sell me a TV at factory cost.... :rolleyes:

You are distorting the whole debate here and placing your own particular construction onto the facts here that your argument cannot support. How would you like to be Harvey Norman and approach Samsung for a TV at factory price, but then Samsung turn around and tell you that they will not sell you a TV at factory price, you'll have to go to Dicksons and they'll sell you a TV at retail less 10%??? What part of this do you not get??? You'd find that you cannot stay in business and compete with Dicksons when they can buy the product on far better terms than you can.

Your reply is typical of the type of smugness and eternal self righteousness that is associated with the industry and is indicative of why we as an industry would appear to be hated by the retail consumer. It's more of the same we are seeing here, "that's the way it is, was and always will be and if you don't like it, why don't you fu*k off and open up a factory"... This is the very SIMI mindset that I've referred to in previous posts that has us as an industry in this very undesirable situation...

galwaytt · 28-11-2008 5:15pm

AudiChris wrote: »

And once you receive your new car, ordered from the web, you just have to email them your trade-in and the transaction's done...

Indeed, or find, as I did on Monday, that I can't actually sit in the back seat without hitting my head off the roof (A5) !!

Internet ain't going to fix that !

Daithi McGee · 28-11-2008 5:21pm

Darragh29 wrote: »

You are distorting the whole debate here and placing your own particular construction onto the facts here that your argument cannot support. How would you like to be Harvey Norman and approach Samsung for a TV at factory price, but then Samsung turn around and tell you that they will not sell you a TV at factory price, you'll have to go to Dicksons and they'll sell you a TV at retail less 10%??? What part of this do you not get??? You'd find that you cannot stay in business and compete with Dicksons when they can buy the product on far better terms than you can.

You can buy parts from a Distributor. Just get a contract from them? From what I can tell if you sign a contract with them they are happy to supply parts?

I am sure Harvey Normans can buy TV's from Samsung, if they are willing to sign a contract with Samsung. If they wouldn't sign the contract I am sure they would have to choose another brand.

Seems pretty simple really.

Darragh29 · 28-11-2008 5:24pm

Daithi McGee wrote: »

You can buy parts from a Distributor. Just get a contract from them? From what I can tell if you sign a contract with them they are happy to supply parts?

I am sure Harvey Normans can buy TV's from Samsung, if they are willing to sign a contract with Samsung. If they wouldn't sign the contract I am sure they would have to choose another brand.

Seems pretty simple really.

Daithi, if you want to contribute you need to know what you are talking about. This isn't as simple as signing a piece of paper. If it was down to a piece of paper, we wouldn't be having this discussion here, it isn't that simple.

Daithi McGee · 28-11-2008 5:28pm

Darragh29 wrote: »

Daithi, if you want to contribute you need to know what you are talking about. This isn't as simple as signing a piece of paper. If it was down to a piece of paper, we wouldn't be having this discussion here, it isn't that simple.

But I do know what I am talking about Darragh. It is as simple as that. Although looking at the after sales contract on my desk you are right. It is not just a piece of paper. More a book.

Drummerboy08 · 28-11-2008 5:30pm

Darragh,

Ultimately you CAN buy from a distributor. Fact is, many Indy garages would not have the turnover of parts to interest a distributor. I dont know honestly what kind of amount of parts you would buy, so i cant comment on your situation.

When i worked in Citroen, we had an Indy Citroen Specialist who bought alot of parts from us, eventually he approached our distributor and set up his own a/c.

It can be done, however its mainly the big indy boys who are in a position to do it.

-Chris- · 28-11-2008 5:45pm

Question for Darragh (or whoever can answer it):

As I understand it, anyone can be an indy repairer, but if you buy all the tools and attend the training you can become an "accredited repairer".

The parts dept for Audi is in Ballymount, run by MDL (for the purposes of this question, let's presume that's still correct).

Darragh, were you as an indy repairer able to go down to Ballymount and buy your parts directly?
Would you have to jump through any hoops to get the parts from them?
Would you have to be an "accredited repairer" before they'd deal with you?

Daithi McGee · 28-11-2008 6:00pm

Only in very unusual circumstances can a end customer collect parts from the distributor. That is even if they allow that policy. H&S etc
Authorised repairers can if they use their own couriers. That is if they have a warehouse in Dublin/Ireland. A lot now fly parts directly into garages from Europe.

Yes you would have to be an authorised repair centre. Some might say that to get said accreditation, one did have to jump through hoops so to speak.

-Chris- · 28-11-2008 6:14pm

So Ballymount sell a widget for €50 wholesale, and it has an RRP of €100.

An authorised repair centre can buy the widget from Ballymount for €50 and make €50 profit on it.
An indy mechanic can't buy from Ballymount.
Indy mechanic has to buy from a dealer, probably gets 10% discount.

So the net result of an indy mechanic fitting an Audi widget to one of his customers cars (and charging full RRP to the customer) is €10 profit for the indy and €40 for the dealer who supplied the indy.

If that seems like a realistic scenario, I'd have to agree with Darragh...

Daithi McGee · 28-11-2008 6:51pm

AudiChris wrote: »

So Ballymount sell a widget for €50 wholesale, and it has an RRP of €100.

An authorised repair centre can buy the widget from Ballymount for €50 and make €50 profit on it.
An indy mechanic can't buy from Ballymount.
Indy mechanic has to buy from a dealer, probably gets 10% discount.

So the net result of an indy mechanic fitting an Audi widget to one of his customers cars (and charging full RRP to the customer) is €10 profit for the indy and €40 for the dealer who supplied the indy.

If that seems like a realistic scenario, I'd have to agree with Darragh...

eh No.

Distributor buys/rents large warehouse/Staff. Distributor has huge stock holding, for a small franchise, maybe 500,000 to say big franchise 2-3 Million.

RRP on widget of 100 Euro. Can be bought on Daily/VOR order @ about 20% discount. On a Weekly stock order, maybe 30-35% Discount, a popular service item, maybe 40% but that is because the main dealers have to carry stock. So 80 to 65 Euro. There is no wholesale pricing. Darragh pays 90.

Darragh didn't have to have a parts person/manager trawl through an EPC to find the part number for the widget either.

Darragh probably wouldn't be happy shelling out 2000 for parts, never mind labour on a sh1thead gearbox warranty job were the time allowed is plain crazy and you loose you bollix but hope to make it back on other more efficent warranty jobs. oh and it would be about 6 to 8 weeks before you get that 2000 back. Darragh only wants to take on the profitable jobs. Don't we all.

Darragh just wants the nice bit of the cake. I did lol at this earler "I'd be much happier giving a chassis number and KNOWING that my parts will come in right, rather than taking a chance with a motor factor and possibly parts coming in that are wrong."

Darragh wants someone else to pick out the part numbers for him. Who would that be? A main dealer who has trained parts personel with knowlegde of the EPC's who also pays anywhere between 3000-5000 euro a years for the pleasure of accessing the EPC and technical information.

I could go on.

Daithi McGee · 28-11-2008 6:53pm

As a foot note, the best way to make money on parts Darragh is to check out what discount you can get if the dealer you are dealing with orders the part in on one of their stock orders. You could get up to maybe 20% but you would have to wait a few days to a week for the part depending on the franchise.

Darragh29 · 28-11-2008 7:56pm

Drummerboy08 wrote: »

Darragh,

Ultimately you CAN buy from a distributor. Fact is, many Indy garages would not have the turnover of parts to interest a distributor. I dont know honestly what kind of amount of parts you would buy, so i cant comment on your situation.

When i worked in Citroen, we had an Indy Citroen Specialist who bought alot of parts from us, eventually he approached our distributor and set up his own a/c.

It can be done, however its mainly the big indy boys who are in a position to do it.

You're not seeing the wood from the trees here Drummerboy! As an indy operator, I only buy from the franchised network WHEN I have to, because theri prices are so uncompetitive. I've often had a customer come to me, who gets their car serviced with me, I'd call them a good customer who is happy with my work and I'm happy to do work for them. The day that they come in and ask me to sort out a problem that needs a part from the main dealer, say for example a door lock, I might have to put 200 Euro into that transaction and I get 250 Euro back out of it. This doesn't make any businesses sense. I have a few choices here:

(A) I can do it and lose money on it, to keep the customer.

(B) I can up the labour on the job from a one hour job to a two hour job to reposition the margin on the job to where I want it to be, which is a short term gain because if I do that, I've screwed my customer and that's the day I should leave the industry.

(3) I can look at whatever the part cost me and put the margin I want on it, so the RRP that the customer gets quoted from the dealer network, has a 20% margin added onto it by me and that is the price my customer pays for that part, although they could buy it 20% cheaper from the dealer themselves!

(4) I can send my customer who I have worked hard to keep, back to the main dealer.

Options (1) and (4) are the most prevalent options I know in use, with option (2) used a fair amoount of the time. Option 3, while perfectly legal, is not really worth it.

If I could buy all my parts from the distributor, simply give a chassis number and know that the parts will be correct every time, I'd much rather to this. If I could do this, I'd be spending 20K with my distributor every month and 0,000K with my motor factor. If I was a busier set up, I'd be spending multiples of 20K a month with a distributor.

I can't do this at the moment because I can't buy from a distributor because that channel is closed to me. I can buy 20K from the dealer if I want but I couldn't be competitive because my business could not survive on a 10% parts margin!

I know plenty of people in the industry who get accounts opened with independent distributors and franchised distributors not because of their turnover or market position or anything else, but simply because they "know someone".

Darragh29 · 28-11-2008 8:00pm

Daithi McGee wrote: »

As a foot note, the best way to make money on parts Darragh is to check out what discount you can get if the dealer you are dealing with orders the part in on one of their stock orders. You could get up to maybe 20% but you would have to wait a few days to a week for the part depending on the franchise.

I was afraid you would join this discussion Daithi. There isn't a dealer in Ireland that will give you a 20% discount. As has already been pointed out here, they only get a 30% discount from the distributor, which means if they give me 20% they are left with 10% themselves.

This isn't about indy garages buying from dealers, this isn't the answer. This is about the market being critically tilted in favour of one sector of vested interests to the detriment of another sector in the industry.

When the same facts are applied to actual cars, people go mad and prosecutions follow. When you look at price fixing in the replacement parts field, people think its a joke!

pred racer · 28-11-2008 8:01pm

Unknown Soldier wrote: »

And Chris the only way to improve your garage is Aftersales. Simple as. I know DP's who ARE the garage. It does not matter what sign they have above the door. The people keep coming back to them because of the service they get.

I have a simple saying that I used many years ago in an interview. I can sell anybody anything once but the trick is to be able to sell to them again.

That is where a lot of garages fall over. They sell the product and then treat the customer like dirt. Now it may not always get back to the sales people or even the DP in a lot of case. And lies can be told.

Aftersales in this country is shocking.

This is it in a nutshell guys.....

try to sell me something, ie answer the bloody phone, ring me back and have some clue what you are talkin about.

look after me when I come back and something isnt working, and dont charge me 300 quid for a spotty faced git in the door two weeks ago to change the oil in my car.

id be happy with that.

Darragh29 · 28-11-2008 8:17pm

AudiChris wrote: »

Question for Darragh (or whoever can answer it):

As I understand it, anyone can be an indy repairer, but if you buy all the tools and attend the training you can become an "accredited repairer".

The parts dept for Audi is in Ballymount, run by MDL (for the purposes of this question, let's presume that's still correct).

Darragh, were you as an indy repairer able to go down to Ballymount and buy your parts directly?
Would you have to jump through any hoops to get the parts from them?
Would you have to be an "accredited repairer" before they'd deal with you?

That's a good point Chris. No, as an indy operator, I couldn't go down to Ballymount and buy from MDL. I could though, as you have suggested, become an accredited/authorised aftersales outlet, which means me no longer being an indy garage and now attaching myself to a one brand, and this is like putting a plaster on the problem as I see it.

Some people don't want to be part of an authorised/franchised network, they don't want the expense of it or the restriction that comes with it.

It should not be a requirement that these completely unrelated boxes should have to be ticked by an applicant in order to be able to buy parts from a distributor at a competitive trade price. If you are a qualified mechanic, you ought to be able to fit a door lock or a window regulator without special tools, equipment or training. So petty rules like training, equipment investment or such rubbish should not have to met in order for an indy garage business to be able to buy parts in a way that let's him or her compete with a main dealer...

I know a good few mechanics who will not get into any job that involves buying a part from a main dealer because their view is that you are losing money on that job. A customer would see this approach as being just ungrateful or ignorant, but at the end of the day, a business is a business and if you cannot make money on a transaction, it doesn't make sense to take on the stress of doing the job and the hardship that you might have to get into, standing over it for possibly two years, and all the rest of it when the job isn't even paying you to begin with?!?

How many people here can say they had a problem and their indy mechanic said they were better off going to the dealer with it???

If people want to know why prices are so high for vehicle servicing and maintenance, this is one of the key reasons why. Lack of competition in relation to parts!

Darragh29 · 28-11-2008 8:25pm

pred racer wrote: »

look after me when I come back and something isnt working, and dont charge me 300 quid for a spotty faced git in the door two weeks ago to change the oil in my car.

I don't know if I'm reading this right, but if something isn't working with your car, a garage is there to fix it, not "look after you" when something goes wrong.

This was one of the most frustrating things I ever had to deal with when I was in this game. You service a car, you find defects that need to be resolved, say a busted shock or brake pads that need to be replaced.

Immediately you are expected to do the additional work for nothing, apparently on the basis that you've made enough from the service?!?

I agree that if you do a job and the customer comes back with it, then you should not just be "looked after", you should have that item resolved fully at no expense to yourself.

But the nature of aftersales and vehicle maintenance is that often, you quote one price, say 530 Euro for a clutch replacement.

You replace the clutch, gearbox back in, everything hunky dorey, then your customer is back saying there is a small oil leak in the driveway. You inspect it to find that one of the drive shaft seals is weeping gear oil and the seal has to be replaced. One hours labour and a seal anywhere up to 80 Euro.

Why should a garage have to resolve this on a goodwill basis or "look after" someone for this problem???

This is what I'm talking about when I say there is often a problem with the customers expectations...

Dabko · 28-11-2008 8:26pm

Main dealers deserve everything that's coming to them!:D:D:D:D:D

Darragh29 · 28-11-2008 8:36pm

Dabko wrote: »

Main dealers deserve everything that's coming to them!:D:D:D:D:D

Well I know the industry is now facing nothing less than a previously unseen crisis. It's grand to sit back and watch a ship sinking, especially a ship with a load of fat cats on board, going down Titanic style.

But there are a lot of decent hard working people in the industry and they should not be on that ship... When you have an organisation like the SIMI steering the ship, you'd want to make sure you have your full compliment of life jackets on board...

reverandkenjami · 28-11-2008 8:43pm

Darragh29 wrote: »

I was afraid you would join this discussion Daithi. There isn't a dealer in Ireland that will give you a 20% discount. As has already been pointed out here, they only get a 30% discount from the distributor, which means if they give me 20% they are left with 10% themselves.

This isn't about indy garages buying from dealers, this isn't the answer. This is about the market being critically tilted in favour of one sector of vested interests to the detriment of another sector in the industry.

When the same facts are applied to actual cars, people go mad and prosecutions follow. When you look at price fixing in the replacement parts field, people think its a joke!

Well if your buying 20k a month off me i'll happily give you 20% discount

You can sign a contract with a manufacturer, but the problem is, you can't turn around and say i only want to buy parts. Don't want to do the warranty work, CBS work, hire somone to look up my parts for me. I'll just give you the chassis number and that'll be it! The part will arrive at the same price it costs the dealer who buys 10x more in the same delivery.

It all comes as part of the deal, you can't just take the profitable part without taking on the rest too..

AudiChris wrote: »

So Ballymount sell a widget for €50 wholesale, and it has an RRP of €100.

An authorised repair centre can buy the widget from Ballymount for €50 and make €50 profit on it.
An indy mechanic can't buy from Ballymount.
Indy mechanic has to buy from a dealer, probably gets 10% discount.

So the net result of an indy mechanic fitting an Audi widget to one of his customers cars (and charging full RRP to the customer) is €10 profit for the indy and €40 for the dealer who supplied the indy.

If that seems like a realistic scenario, I'd have to agree with Darragh...

But don't forget the authorised repair centre signs a contract and pays 'ballymount' crazy amounts of money for the right to be authorised! If Darragh wants to pay them the same in order to buy the parts at the same price there is nothing stopping him...

The same scenario applies to car sales, customer has to buy from a dealer - why can't he go to the manufacturer and save himself 10% and delivery charges etc?? Should dealers be scrapped altogether?

Darragh29 · 28-11-2008 8:48pm

reverandkenjami wrote: »

Well if your buying 20k a month off me i'll happily give you 20% discount

And you'd be happy with the 10% you'd be left with???

Daithi McGee · 28-11-2008 8:58pm

Darragh,

Your facts seem incorrect. Opel dealers get about 40% on their stock orders. For the majority of parts. That would exclude high value items such as engines were even a main dealr might just get 5,10 or 15%

As a matter of a fact I could throw a ream of facts at you on this matter for about 6 Distributors and how they operate but I still don't think you are going to understand as you have a very blinkered view on this. You reckon VW will ship you a door from germany? You going to pay the 300 odd eur TNT vor charge? And before you tell me it would not cost that, it is done on the greater weight. In this case volumetric. Actually here is an interesting fact. You know one of those long 5sih foot is brake pipes? They cost a few hunderd on overnights. A man like you or me might just fuk it on top of a load of goods on the plane but they, TNT and the like, price it as taking up a set amount of floor space, even though they do fuk it onto a pallet somewhere.

You want opel to ship you a door from Germany or Luton? And if it arrive damaged are you ok with using your 1% monthly rebate based on your monthly parts spend to right it off? Hey maybe it is not damaged but they sent you the wrong side? Sorry they don't accept returns. That is why you have your rebate/slush fund.

You want that one Mirror glass but they come in a MOQ of two? Sorry you have to take the two.

You want a wringing loom for your disabled customers car? Sorry 6 weeks lead time. You will have to let them use your loan car in the mean time.

By the way, the day you can buy a part directly off the Distributor? Is the same day that your customer can. What you going to do then? Demand only garages can buy parts directly but not people off the street?

reverandkenjami · 28-11-2008 9:00pm

Darragh29 wrote: »

And you'd be happy with the 10% you'd be left with???

Course i would..

(1) You buy 20k in a motor factors, i make €0

(2) You buy 20k off me, i make €2k

Its about negotiating discounts.. The more you spend per month the more discount you will get. You just need to push for it

Daithi McGee wrote: »

Darragh,

Your facts seem incorrect. Opel dealers get about 40% on their stock orders. For the majority of parts. That would exclude high value items such as engines were even a main dealr might just get 5,10 or 15%

As a matter of a fact I could throw a ream of facts at you on this matter for about 6 Distributors and how they operate but I still don't think you are going to understand as you have a very blinkered view on this. You reckon VW will ship you a door from germany? You going to pay the 300 odd eur TNT vor charge? And before you tell me it would not cost that, it is done on the greater weight. In this case volumetric. Actually here is an interesting fact. You know one of those long 5sih foot is brake pipes? They cost a few hunderd on overnights. A man like you or me might just fuk it on top of a load of goods on the plane but they, TNT and the like, price it as taking up a set amount of floor space, even though they do fuk it onto a pallet somewhere.

You want opel to ship you a door from Germany or Luton? And if it arrive damaged are you ok with using your 1% monthly rebate based on your monthly parts spend to right it off? Hey maybe it is not damaged but they sent you the wrong side? Sorry they don't accept returns. That is why you have your rebate/slush fund.

You want that one Mirror glass but they come in a MOQ of two? Sorry you have to take the two.

You want a wringing loom for your disabled customers car? Sorry 6 weeks lead time. You will have to let them use your loan car in the mean time.

By the way, the day you can buy a part directly off the Distributor? Is the same day that your customer can. What you going to do then? Demand only garages can buy parts directly but not people off the street?

Most sense in the thread so far.. Darragh wants the profitable parts.. Nothing else!! As said above, if you end up being able to buy direct, so will the customer. So there goes your 10%. How will you manage then?

Owen · 28-11-2008 9:02pm

Dabko wrote: »

Main dealers deserve everything that's coming to them!:D:D:D:D:D

Yes indeedy. Families not being able to pay mortages, and mechanics not being able to get work, because they're trained to work on cars, not be IT techs, or Doctors. What a wonderfully simplistic view you have, and how marvellous that you wish others ill fortunes. On behalf of the normal people working in the Motor Trade, thank you.

Owen · 28-11-2008 9:04pm

Daithi McGee wrote: »

Opel dealers get about 40% on their stock orders.

I said this a few pages back, knowing damn well what certain franchises parts departments markup is, and it was scoffed at. Further proof here for the nay-sayers!

Daithi McGee · 28-11-2008 9:06pm

Dabko wrote: »

Main dealers deserve everything that's coming to them!:D:D:D:D:D

They do in a lot of ways.

Here is an interesting one for you. Pop into a jewlers on Grafton street, one of the posh ones, and tell them you are looking to buy a very good watch for a company leaving present. A few grands worth. I can't remember the name of the bloody jewlers I was in but we were taking off the main floor up stairs. Comfy couches, tea, cake, drinks if we wanted and then the watches were brought out and shown to us. We were treated like princess tbh. All for watched ranging from 2-6K

Go in to spend 30K of a 4x4 and you get .....

Owen · 28-11-2008 9:14pm

Daithi McGee wrote: »

Here is an interesting one for you. Pop into a jewlers on Grafton street, one of the posh ones, and tell them you are looking to buy a very good watch for a company leaving present. A few grands worth. I can't remember the name of the bloody jewlers I was in but we were taking off the main floor up stairs. Comfy couches, tea, cake, drinks if we wanted and then the watches were brought out and shown to us. We were treated like princess tbh. All for watched ranging from 2-6K

Go in to spend 30K of a 4x4 and you get .....

lol, there's a very very good reason for that. I bought a TAG Heuer Carrerra recently which had a sticker price of 3k. I paid a tiny bit over 2k for it, and the Jeweller still made profit from it. So, they have 33% profit margin roughly. In most cases in the motoring industry, dealers have between 4-7% to work on, most of which is given away to prop up trade in prices in the hopes of getting deals. You'd actually be very very surprised what the net profit on an average car deal is these days.

The comfy couches, tea, cakes and drink? That's because you're being raped on price, but being deluded into thinking it's a fair price. Jewellers have the cushiest number of all in the retail trade.

reverandkenjami · 28-11-2008 9:16pm

Seeing as we have a fair few people here from parts, what is your buying discount.

Ours is 30% - 40% at the max

Daithi McGee · 28-11-2008 9:19pm

ned78 wrote: »

lol, there's a very very good reason for that. I bought a TAG Heuer Carrerra recently which had a sticker price of 3k. I paid a tiny bit over 2k for it, and the Jeweller still made profit from it. So, they have 33% profit margin roughly. In most cases in the motoring industry, dealers have between 4-7% to work on, most of which is given away to prop up trade in prices in the hopes of getting deals. You'd actually be very very surprised what the net profit on an average car deal is these days.

The comfy couches, tea, cakes and drink? That's because you're being raped on price, but being deluded into thinking it's a fair price. Jewellers have the cushiest number of all in the retail trade.

Ned, I can assure you from what I know about Jewlers they made more like 100% or 50% margin depending on how you calculate it.

My point is, though I may have made it badly, is how you are treated v expenditure. It is not about the margin. I doubt the tea and cakes etc cost that much. It is about the effort they put into it and how they treat you.

pred racer · 28-11-2008 9:29pm

Darragh29 wrote: »

I don't know if I'm reading this right, but if something isn't working with your car, a garage is there to fix it, not "look after you" when something goes wrong.

This was one of the most frustrating things I ever had to deal with when I was in this game. You service a car, you find defects that need to be resolved, say a busted shock or brake pads that need to be replaced.

Immediately you are expected to do the additional work for nothing, apparently on the basis that you've made enough from the service?!?

I agree that if you do a job and the customer comes back with it, then you should not just be "looked after", you should have that item resolved fully at no expense to yourself.

But the nature of aftersales and vehicle maintenance is that often, you quote one price, say 530 Euro for a clutch replacement.

You replace the clutch, gearbox back in, everything hunky dorey, then your customer is back saying there is a small oil leak in the driveway. You inspect it to find that one of the drive shaft seals is weeping gear oil and the seal has to be replaced. One hours labour and a seal anywhere up to 80 Euro.

Why should a garage have to resolve this on a goodwill basis or "look after" someone for this problem???

This is what I'm talking about when I say there is often a problem with the customers expectations...

Darragh.
Please consider that what people say, might not be said to have a dig at you!
Ill explain........AGAIN
If I buy a car off a dealer or an indy, I get a warranty, yes?
If during that warranty period something breaks I expect you to fix it.
(and before you mis-interpret my comments again I mean if something BREAKS, not that I broke something, not a bloody bulb or any other consumable....with me so far??) not to try every trick in the book to get out of fixing it. You (insert dealer/indy name here) have guaranteed this product!

I do not expect anything for nothing, but if you replace my gearbox (to continue your analogy above) and my GEARBOX is leaking afterwards then yes Im sorry but I expect you to fix the damn thing. If YOU break something else in the course of this repair I expect you to fix it for free not pretend it was broken anyway and charge me for it.

I think the other point I made should be easy even for you........... I dont expect to be charge hundreds for a simple job that takes an hour and costs fcuk all. maybe Im unreasonable??????

Now please go back and read my original post and see if it makes more sense:mad:

pred racer wrote: »

This is it in a nutshell guys.....

try to sell me something, ie answer the bloody phone, ring me back and have some clue what you are talkin about.

look after me when I come back and something isnt working, and dont charge me 300 quid for a spotty faced git in the door two weeks ago to change the oil in my car.

id be happy with that.

Motor Trade RIP (1888-2008)

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