Motor Trade RIP (1888-2008)

Darragh29

reverandkenjami wrote: »

But a motor distributor is there to buy the parts off Bosch and distribute to their dealers. They don't have to sell to anybody else.

It'd be a different ballgame if Bosch were the one's who refused to sell the parts.

Yeah, sure it's always a different game when the finger is being pointed at someone else...

In relation to your first point above, that is my point exactly, and in refusing to supply anyone other than their own dealers, they are distorting competition in an otherwise open market and are keeping prices artifically high and screwing consumers, who from what I'm reading on this thread, have clearly had enough...

They should have to sell to anyone in the industry who is acting in good faith. That would mean an open market where petty restrictions no longer exist and we can all compete with each other fairly and whoever offers the best service and price, lets more work...

The only reason dealers need to keep the market restricted is because they know well if customers had real choice, many of them would be out of business long ago...

reverandkenjami

Darragh29 wrote: »

In relation to your first point above, that is my point exactly, and in refusing to supply anyone other than their own dealers, they are distorting competition in an otherwise open market and are keeping prices artifically high and screwing consumers, who from what I'm reading on this thread, have clearly had enough...

They should have to sell to anyone in the industry who is acting in good faith. That would mean an open market where petty restrictions no longer exist and we can all compete with each other fairly and whoever offers the best service and price, lets more work...

But they do not make the parts!! The same parts can be sourced via the Manufacturer or Motor factors. Nobody is forcing you to buy off them.

How is having 3 choices for your parts "market restriction"?

Darragh29

reverandkenjami wrote: »

But they do not make the parts!! The same parts can be sourced via the Manufacturer or Motor factors. Nobody is forcing you to buy off them.

How is having 3 choices for your parts "market restriction"?

Ok, if I need a cam position sensor, crank position sensor, window reg, camshaft, door lock, ECU, lambda sensor, airbag, seat belt, seat belt pre-tensioner, pedal box, accelerator position sensor, throttle potentiometer, idle control actuator, air flow meter, MAP sensor...

Just to name a few parts, are you telling me my motor factor can supply me with these components???

The only place I can get these parts in this jurisdiction is through a main dealer. A main dealer who I have to compete with for this business, whom I have no problem competing with, except only for the fact that it is the interests of that same main dealer to keep the cost to me of getting that part, as high as possible...

reverandkenjami

Darragh29 wrote: »

Ok, if I need a cam position sensor, crank position sensor, window reg, camshaft, door lock, ECU, lambda sensor, airbag, seat belt, seat belt pre-tensioner, pedal box, accelerator position sensor, throttle potentiometer, idle control actuator, air flow meter, MAP sensor...

Just to name a few parts, are you telling me my motor factor can supply me with these components???

The only place I can get these parts in this jurisdiction is through a main dealer. A main dealer who I have to compete with for this business, whom I have no problem competing with, except only for the fact that it is the interests of that same main dealer to keep the cost to me of getting that part, as high as possible...

AD Ireland seem to supply alot of that!!

So why don't you go to BMW/Merc/Opel/Renault and sign a service contract in order to become part of their distribution network?

Darragh29

reverandkenjami wrote: »

AD Ireland seem to supply alot of that!!

So why don't you go to BMW/Merc/Opel/Renault and sign a service contract in order to become part of their distribution network?

Oh, what parts in particular do they supply???

AD Ireland are an independent distributor for motor factors! Yes they will supply you will a universal lambda sensor, brake parts, clutches, service components, brake pipes, hoses, and other bits and pieces, but they won't supply you with OEM replacement engine sensors, engine mountings, door locks, window regs, etc, etc, etc!

Yes they will also supply you with a universal lambda sensor, sure who in their right mind would fit one of those!?!?!

Look I've worked for many years as an indy mechanic and I'm not making this sh*t up! I'm bringing this up for a reason! If there was no need to buy from a middleman who I am also forced to compete with, do you really think I'd be on here complaining about it for days here???

ninty9er

Darragh29 wrote: »

Ok, if I need a cam position sensor, crank position sensor, window reg, camshaft, door lock, ECU, lambda sensor, airbag, seat belt, seat belt pre-tensioner, pedal box, accelerator position sensor, throttle potentiometer, idle control actuator, air flow meter, MAP sensor...

Just to name a few parts, are you telling me my motor factor can supply me with these components???

The only place I can get these parts in this jurisdiction is through a main dealer. A main dealer who I have to compete with for this business, whom I have no problem competing with, except only for the fact that it is the interests of that same main dealer to keep the cost to me of getting that part, as high as possible...

Ebay is your friend...

maidhc

ninty9er wrote: »

Ebay is your friend...

Ah come on, in fairness!

ninty9er

maidhc wrote: »

Ah come on, in fairness!

Your point being?

copacetic

ffs, how did the thread turn entirely to one about parts? the whole pile of pages of pages of steaming crap posted above has little or nothing to do with the problems in the motor trade at the moment.

Mr.Diagnostic

Darragh29 wrote: »

Oh, what parts in particular do they supply???

AD Ireland are an independent distributor for motor factors! Yes they will supply you will a universal lambda sensor, brake parts, clutches, service components, brake pipes, hoses, and other bits and pieces, but they won't supply you with OEM replacement engine sensors, engine mountings, door locks, window regs, etc, etc, etc!

Yes they will also supply you with a universal lambda sensor, sure who in their right mind would fit one of those!?!?!

Look I've worked for many years as an indy mechanic and I'm not making this sh*t up! I'm bringing this up for a reason! If there was no need to buy from a middleman who I am also forced to compete with, do you really think I'd be on here complaining about it for days here???

Hi Darragh,

The problem that you are complaining about re the supply of parts is not as bad as you think. There are a lot of parts that the majority of motor factors will tell you they cannot get. In reality they often don’t know that they can get quite a lot of them.
It will never be possible to source all the parts any garage needs without dealing with a dealer parts dept but there is an up side to this. It is up to every indy to equip themselves with the knowledge and software to locate the OEM parts outside the dealer network. Any indy who does this will them operate at an advantage rather than a disadvantage. In reality, very few indies do this but it gives those of us who do even more of an advantage. It also allows us to supply customers with parts cheaper than dealers and make a better margin as well so everyone is a winner.
It is possible to source some of the parts you mentioned inc ECU’s etc. You will never source them all but you will enough to negate the detrimental economic effect of the dealer franchise system.

Darragh29

Mr.Diagnostic wrote: »

Hi Darragh,

The problem that you are complaining about re the supply of parts is not as bad as you think. There are a lot of parts that the majority of motor factors will tell you they cannot get. In reality they often don’t know that they can get quite a lot of them.
It will never be possible to source all the parts any garage needs without dealing with a dealer parts dept but there is an up side to this. It is up to every indy to equip themselves with the knowledge and software to locate the OEM parts outside the dealer network. Any indy who does this will them operate at an advantage rather than a disadvantage. In reality, very few indies do this but it gives those of us who do even more of an advantage. It also allows us to supply customers with parts cheaper than dealers and make a better margin as well so everyone is a winner.
It is possible to source some of the parts you mentioned inc ECU’s etc. You will never source them all but you will enough to negate the detrimental economic effect of the dealer franchise system.

To a certain degree, I see where you are coming from. I can get LuK clutches for example at a competitive price. But I think the fact remains that if you want a door lock, window reg, or a whole host of components like this, and you are not able to go up the north for them, you are stuck with your main dealer. I agree that you can probably get them off the internet and they'll be posted to you in a week or two but then you are at a competitive loss on another front, which is the timeframe in which you can do the job...

I know Opel have been the first to recognise the fact that dealers are losing huge market share to the motor factors and have brought in a trade club, still though, they might give a good price on fast moving service parts but they'll still put a saddle on you if you are stuck for something that doesn't move that fast and you're back to 10% discount world again...

Mr.Diagnostic

Darragh29 wrote: »

To a certain degree, I see where you are coming from. I can get LuK clutches for example at a competitive price. But I think the fact remains that if you want a door lock, window reg, or a whole host of components like this, and you are not able to go up the north for them, you are stuck with your main dealer. I agree that you can probably get them off the internet and they'll be posted to you in a week or two but then you are at a competitive loss on another front, which is the timeframe in which you can do the job...

I know Opel have been the first to recognise the fact that dealers are losing huge market share to the motor factors and have brought in a trade club, still though, they might give a good price on fast moving service parts but they'll still put a saddle on you if you are stuck for something that doesn't move that fast and you're back to 10% discount world again...

No Darragh you have missed the point. I am not talking about importing parts. Here is a real world example. There is a particular Lambda probe that I fit on a regular basis. From the dealer it is over €200. The factors do not have a listing on it so most people buy it from the dealer. I did a bit of research and cross referenced the number. I now order it, by part number, from the factors. This allows the customer a saving and me a bigger margin.

That’s just one example of many. Its also a perfect example of how the trade needs to up its game.

Darragh29

Mr.Diagnostic wrote: »

No Darragh you have missed the point. I am not talking about importing parts. Here is a real world example. There is a particular Lambda probe that I fit on a regular basis. From the dealer it is over €200. The factors do not have a listing on it so most people buy it from the dealer. I did a bit of research and cross referenced the number. I now order it, by part number, from the factors. This allows the customer a saving and me a bigger margin.

That’s just one example of many. Its also a perfect example of how the trade needs to up its game.

Yeah I do accept that there are certain parts that can be got through motor factors that until recently were only available from a dealer. Hella for example have brought out a range of engine sensors, including lambda sensors.

But there are many many parts that you can only get either from a scrap yard or from a main dealer. Of course I can go on ebay or the net and spend time looking up stuff, but this is time consuming on a part by part basis.

This can be argued to the death, but I see no reason why an indy garage operating in good faith in the industry, has to be forced to buy from his competitor on many occasions. I accept that if you have the time to spend doing enough research and your customer has the time to wait for you to get the part elsewhere, of course its a big world and parts can be got in a cheaper foreign market or if you have the time, eventually you will find someone somewhere in the country with the part, if you have the time to do this every time you need to buy a slow moving part. I also accept that there are occasions where you can play smart and beat the system so to speak.

There are also occasions where you have to buy from your competitor and I think that in 2008, this is just plain crazy!

cancan

Darragh29 wrote: »

Yeah I do accept that there are certain parts that can be got through motor factors that until recently were only available from a dealer. Hella for example have brought out a range of engine sensors, including lambda sensors.

But there are many many parts that you can only get either from a scrap yard or from a main dealer. Of course I can go on ebay or the net and spend time looking up stuff, but this is time consuming on a part by part basis.

This can be argued to the death, but I see no reason why an indy garage operating in good faith in the industry, has to be forced to buy from his competitor on many occasions. I accept that if you have the time to spend doing enough research and your customer has the time to wait for you to get the part elsewhere, of course its a big world and parts can be got in a cheaper foreign market or if you have the time, eventually you will find someone somewhere in the country with the part, if you have the time to do this every time you need to buy a slow moving part. I also accept that there are occasions where you can play smart and beat the system so to speak.

There are also occasions where you have to buy from your competitor and I think that in 2008, this is just plain crazy!

Why not try and source some of this stuff on line?
It's a lot quicker and cost effective than ringing motor factors and driving down to pick it up. I get all the parts for my car on line, and just stand there and pay the labor for installation.
And you will not be waiting 1-2 weeks for the part. Most can be on your doorstep over night.

By being willing to try new sources for your parts, you will be forcing local sellers to price match the parts you are sourcing.


Given the prices of second hand yokes at the minute, I'd be suprised if people were not snapping up cars and breaking them for parts, as there is a huge difference between the price of cars and the price of the constituant parts.

Or you can continue buying from a main dealer and making a 60% margin and wondering why customers are upset.

Daithi McGee

Darragh29 wrote: »

Daithi, I've seen other threads you have contributed to, and they have ended in them being locked imminently upon your arrival, because you let on that you are an expert in an industry that you are obviously not even employed in or have no first hand knowledge of. Once I saw you appearing on this thread, I knew it was the end of the discussion.

You have represented yourself as someone senior in the industry on this thead, yet when I ask you what the word "spurious" means in the context of this industry, you have to look it up in a dictionary and even after doing that, you still don't understand the meaning the word in the context of this discussion.

I post here in a personal capacity, and the number of people I employ, have employed in the last or might employ in the future, is of absolutely no concern to you or any other person on this forum and vice versa for that matter.

This thread will proably be locked now, end of discussion, and more of the same, good lad Daithi...

Seeing as you have personalised this to me Darragh, allow me the right to reply
One, I can post what ever I like elsewhere on boards, as you do to from what I can see. It has no merits in this thread.

Two, I have never represented myself as anyone "senior in the industry" in this thread. I am chuffed that my knowledge of the parts industry leads you to believe that I am representing myself that way even though I am not.

Three, you never asked me what the word spurious I meant. If you did I must have missed it. I mentioned in an earlier post "Spurious Suppliers" and you asked me "Daithi, what exactly is a spurious part???" I replied telling you I did not mention spurious parts and explained the terminology I used. And yes I did look up the proper meaning of the word later that day. No harm in learning proper meanings to words we use. And to my explaination you replied it was more BS

Now nother example of you pulling that manouver would be your post on injectors and aer lingus etc. I replied with an answer to your posts offering alternative suppliers of injectors and you reply "Good lad Daithi, give AD Ireland a call on Monday morning and ask them for a window reg for a 02 VW Mk 4 Golf and see how you get on...

"
Basically because you have no decent answer to give. I never suggested you could get other parts from them. I though your arelingus post was about injectors. My bad.

Now I apologise for asking you how many people you employ as I just wanted to get a handle on your staff overheads versus that of a small main dealer.

So I won't be bothering to let you know how the parts industry works in Ireland from what I know of it, as that is all I was doing. You can post away to your hears delight and I won't bother you. You can make out I am a messer and as such refute anything I say with that line as all you are doing is avoiding my answers to your questions. But I will leave you with a few more facts.

To the best of my knowledge there are few Parts warehouses in Ireland any more. 8? I think there is just Peugeot/Citron, Nissan, Suzuki, Chevrolet/Daewoo/Ssangyong, VW (soon to go direct to dealer I'd say), Merc, Honda, Seat/Saab/Dodge/Chrysler/Daihatsu/Jeep, and then Hyundi/Mitisubishi. I may have missed one or two but all of those are still run in Ireland by an Irish based distrubution company. IM doing Suzuki and subaru is a grey area. All the rest, I am open to correction here as this is from memory, are direct to dealer. Toyota I am not sure about.

But when a franchise is ran directly by their British or European HQ it usually follows suit that their parts will too. Or more to the fact it has actually worked in reverse. The parts go direct ala Renault, Mazda and then they take the car franchise back too.

So in effect you will be limited as to where you can pick your parts up from. More so in the future. Bar you paying horrendous carraige charges with Ford, Opel, Fiat and the other Euro parts centred ones, being able to buy direct would be a waste of time. It would actually cost you a lot more. As well as that most of the ones here do operate cash accounts from time to time selling parts directly to people, mosty those who turn up on their doorsteps but those cash accounts are usually set to 10% or 15%

Now even though you can't see it, it is not main dealers who are a threat to your business. It is actually the opposite. It is independant garages that take business away from main dealers with their abilty to source parts from a plathora of suppliers and to offer better labour rates. Due to having a lower cost base and a lot less restrictions placed upon them.

Statisticaly the main dealer gets the customer from year 1 -3 mostly due to the warranty. Years 4 to 7 are a bit of a struggle either way but that would be where most main dealers try and hang on to their customer. After year 7 a main dealer can kiss good bye to the that little section of the car parc. Indy's tend to get all those and they are very profitable. Way more profitabe than anything Main dealers are left with.

But good luck with what ever case you take. I'd actually like to see you win it and see parts available to the masses direct.

murph226

Ferris wrote: »

My da is not the complaining type, quite the opposite actually, he just knows that it doesn't take two hours to do the work they describe, they have as much as admitted it on a couple of occasions so now he knows it doesn't take as long as they say. Thats why he keeps on going back (+ hes happy with the work they do to be fair).

What do you think is more likely:
-Dealer folds even tho they think they are correct, reducing the bill by ~100euro to shut a (non-irate courteous and well spoken) customer up.
or
-Dealer overbills everyone and folds when someone who actually knows their sh1t pulls them up on it.

I know which one I believe, and I believe it to be widespread.

If your oldman is such an expert why didnt he change the oil himself:rolleyes:

junkyard

We'll all have to be experts at the rate things are going there won't be any garages left.:pac: