Motor Trade RIP (1888-2008)

maidhc

ned78 wrote: »

I agree wholeheartedly with you, but in your profession, you can see the danger if things like that aren't done. "I crashed my car after getting it serviced because it was raining, I couldn't see, and Mercedes didn't change my wipers because they were lazy", or "I lost control of my car, and crashed. My rear bushings were .5%% worn - that must have been the cause" - people will use the tiniest excuses to litigate, and it's this fear of being sued that forces main dealers to over service under guidelines from the Manufacturers.

Fair point. I think a lot of main dealers, despite being astute businessmen have been somewhat misled by manufacturers.

They have taken the risk in building mult million euro outfits to conform with corporate identities, but now are in the unenviable position of holding the baby.

Ferris

ned78 wrote: »

Am ... it really is called goodwill. Promise.

If you say so;)

Two hour oil changes FTW!:D

pred racer

maidhc wrote: »

That is what people do.

Although the marketing bots may not agree, getting your car back unwashed from a service is not a deal breaker. Also people generally don't want new wiper blades and windscreen wash when all they ask for is an oil change.

The beauty of an independant is they will replace stuff when it needs to be replaced, not when Audi/Ford/BMW decide it should be so as to "enhance the ownership experience". This may mean the first you hear of needing a bushing is a gentle knocking in the back, but so be it.

Exactly!!
If I leave my car in for a service, then its a service I want, not all that other tat. by all means ask if I want it done, but dont assume that I want new wipers and then charge me for it.

as far as all the specialised equipment goes, thats there to make the dealers job easier, not so you can charge me more for it! With 10 ramps, 10 mechanics etc etc economy of scale should come into play and it should be cheaper.

It all comes down to one point though, if you are willing to pay the dealer price and are happy with the work then grand, if not go Independant and find a place with equal service for less money (and also sales, any indo car dealer can get you a new car) Hopefully this downturn will weed out the theivin chancers and the good outlets will be left and will be competing on price and service.

cowenstaff

Ferris wrote: »

My da is not the complaining type, quite the opposite actually, he just knows that it doesn't take two hours to do the work they describe, they have as much as admitted it on a couple of occasions so now he knows it doesn't take as long as they say. Thats why he keeps on going back (+ hes happy with the work they do to be fair).

What do you think is more likely:
-Dealer folds even tho they think they are correct, reducing the bill by ~100euro to shut a (non-irate courteous and well spoken) customer up.
or
-Dealer overbills everyone and folds when someone who actually knows their sh1t pulls them up on it.

I know which one I believe, and I believe it to be widespread.

I saw a great poster in the States for cases like this

Labour rate:

$50 per hour

$60 per hour (if you had a try yourself first)

$80 per hour (if you had somebody else try to do for you but failed)

Drummerboy08

Not too sure about going to an indo for a new car.. They might get a new car for you, but they'll have to go thru a dealer to get that car in the first place, which means the dealer will want a cut. He's not gonna supply a car for nothing. Then the indo would have a small margin to make his price competitive with the dealer, so in 6 months time, if something goes wrong with your new car, the indo wont really want the hardship of it because he made f**k all in the first place... And you'll have to go back to the dealer to get the warranty work done...

But i'd agree with an indo mechanic. If your not happy with your local dealers prices/service, find someone who'll do it cheaper and who your happy with..

cowenstaff

pred racer wrote: »

Exactly!!
If I leave my car in for a service, then its a service I want, not all that other tat. by all means ask if I want it done, but dont assume that I want new wipers and then charge me for it.

as far as all the specialised equipment goes, thats there to make the dealers job easier, not so you can charge me more for it! With 10 ramps, 10 mechanics etc etc economy of scale should come into play and it should be cheaper.

It all comes down to one point though, if you are willing to pay the dealer price and are happy with the work then grand, if not go Independant and find a place with equal service for less money (and also sales, any indo car dealer can get you a new car) Hopefully this downturn will weed out the theivin chancers and the good outlets will be left and will be competing on price and service.

Don't be naive, less supply, greater demand, higher prices, no bargaining. Be careful what you wish for, at least with car sales there is alway a deal to be done - unless there wss a 2 year waiting list (not much chance of that now). Go into BTs on grafton street asking the sales rep to "do you a deal" on an suit or tell them that the shop across the way is €20 cheaper - see what happens.

SV

Motor Trade being dead is nothing but a good thing.


Dealers may get over themselves.

helimachoptor

TheBazman wrote: »

What would happen if EUR/GBP went for 0.85 to 1.00 or 1.20? There wouldnt be a car sold in the country! Just after hearing of someone who picked up a 2006 motor in the UK for 13k (all in with VRT) versus the cheapest on carzone of 23k.

Yeah a guy I work with got a 06 top spec A6 landed for 21K, The nearest on carzone I think was about 30k

Drummerboy08

ClioV6 wrote: »

Motor Trade being dead is nothing but a good thing.


Dealers may get over themselves.

Any chance of backing up that statement?.....:rolleyes:

pburns

ned78 wrote: »

This thread is going to spiral downwards quite quickly. You'll have the usual people in screaming that Dealers are all out to take first borns away, independent mechanics claiming they can do the work at half the cost in their own smaller premises (Duh!), and the employed Dealer staff trying to justify it to people who just don't want to listen, or keep an open mind.

Yes some Dealers take the piss, but not all.

Spot on with the prediction on how the thread would develop. In fairness though i think the majority of dealers take the piss. It's embedded in the culture.

Drummerboy08 wrote: »

Have to agree with Ned here. Too many people too quick to jump the gun against the dealers. If all the dealers go down the tube, it means not only all the dealer staff and their families are in trouble, but also the other businesses who depend on motor dealers for alot of business - Bodyshops, tyre centres, motor factors, finance houses, etc. Now look at all the people suddenly in trouble.

We should really start supporting irish dealers and irish businesses in general, instead of giving out about the state of the irish economy - and then going over the border or to the UK and spending your money over there.

Its a vicious circle at the minute.

I'm just gonna sit here and wait for the torrent of abuse to begin now.:rolleyes:

I actually agree with you on most points...(reluctantly)

We may moan and bitch about main dealer rip-offs but who was only too happy to pay them over the last decade while things were going well?

What annoys me now are the idiots jumping up and down blaming the garages, the government, the banks, the builders...anyone but themselves and all the other Joe Schmucks who got themselves up to the arse in debt and spent way beyond their means. Nobody put a gun to your head and made you buy a new motor, no-one made you take it to the main-dealer palace for maintainance rather than a friendly indy.

The motor industry is not blameless but it isn't any more culpable than any other sector of Irish society that got caught up in the mad mass-splurge.

cowenstaff

Better lend my support to the indos - they do great work at keener prices (mostly) - but they would prefer not to get involved with repairing the newer stuff (less than 2 years old) - but no problem in servicing. Membership of the SIMI is usually a good sign.

SV

Drummerboy08 wrote: »

Any chance of backing up that statement?.....:rolleyes:

With?

Examples of dealers being so far up their own arses they don't give a **** what you want?
orrr..examples of dealers ripping people off?


Or..anything at all?




and cowenstaff, SIMI? seriously..

Táck

mickdw wrote: »

I cant understand why these dealers dont flush out this existing stock at a loss

they are. over the next 12 months only the wealthier of the garages, be it main or indo, will survive.

pred racer

cowenstaff wrote: »

Don't be naive, less supply, greater demand, higher prices, no bargaining. Be careful what you wish for, at least with car sales there is alway a deal to be done - unless there wss a 2 year waiting list (not much chance of that now). Go into BTs on grafton street asking the sales rep to "do you a deal" on an suit or tell them that the shop across the way is €20 cheaper - see what happens.

fair enough.
My point was, that if you see the same suit in BT's and get charged extra for the bag, would you not go into pennies and get it for 50 quid less and get a bag if you want? To continue that analogy, pennies dont charge me extra coz their stores are bigger they charge me less due to economy of scale!
Im not hoping that all car dealers close down Im just hoping that the current difficulties will cause the gougers to close down while those outlets who are interested in customer service and competitive price will stay going.(btw the garage that does all my work, has always treated me right. and while that continues they will get all my business. I know that customer loyalty has died from both sides, but I find that being a regular customer (for repairs I do my own servicing) has definate advantages)

Hellrazer

Agreed-Dealers are terrified of being sued by customers over the most ridiculous things.
In my previous dealership we had a woman who wrapped her car around a pole and decided that her "unlimited" warranty would cover the cost of the repair :rolleyes::rolleyes:
It was an unlimited mileage warranty.

The we were sued because another idiot customer put petrol into a diesel and did 2k worth of damage and claimed that it wasnt noted anywhere that it was diesel despite it being written on 1.the fuel flap,2.the actual fuel cap itself,3.a sticker under the fuel cap after its removed and 4/5 times in the owners handbook.

ned78 wrote: »

I agree wholeheartedly with you, but in your profession, you can see the danger if things like that aren't done. "I crashed my car after getting it serviced because it was raining, I couldn't see, and Mercedes didn't change my wipers because they were lazy", or "I lost control of my car, and crashed. My rear bushings were .5%% worn - that must have been the cause" - people will use the tiniest excuses to litigate, and it's this fear of being sued that forces main dealers to over service under guidelines from the Manufacturers.

Drummerboy08

ClioV6 wrote: »

With?

Examples of dealers being so far up their own arses they don't give a **** what you want?
orrr..examples of dealers ripping people off?


Or..anything at all?




and cowenstaff, SIMI? seriously..

Sounds like someone has a serious problem with dealers... Is there any reason for this, have you had a bad experience with one? Maybe the clue is in you name perhaps? Or are you just jumping on the bandwagon like a lot of people?

I agree that alot of dealers have made stupid mistakes over the last few years, just like doctors, builders, banks, the Gardai, the HSE, the Government, you. If youer gonna give out about dealers, maybe you should start complaining about everyone else too.

Anan1

Drummerboy08 wrote: »

Sounds like someone has a serious problem with dealers... Is there any reason for this, have you had a bad experience with one? Maybe the clue is in you name perhaps? Or are you just jumping on the bandwagon like a lot of people?

I agree that alot of dealers have made stupid mistakes over the last few years, just like doctors, builders, banks, the Gardai, the HSE, the Government, you. If youer gonna give out about dealers, maybe you should start complaining about everyone else too.

I've worked in a well-regarded Dublin dealership and had many dealings with others over the years. There are of course good people working in the motor trade in Ireland. Taken as a whole, though, it would be hard to find a more lazy and incompetent bunch of people anywhere. The Gardai, the HSE, and yes, even the government, are paragons of industry & efficiency in comparison to them. At least in my 20 years experience, that is.:)

-Chris-

Hooray, the motor industry's dead! The stealers have gotten their comeuppance! The customer wins again!


If anyone wants to PM me their phone number, I'll pass it on to one of the six employees that got let go on Friday from the garage where I work.
I'm not sure if they'll want join you in your celebrations though...

We're expecting another 2 people to go in the next day or two. I'm hoping I'm not one of them.


This thread is entirely inappropriate. You're talking about people's jobs here.
If you don't want to pay €100 per hour, DON'T GO TO A GARAGE THAT CHARGES THAT RATE!
If you want to sell your car privately and buy your car in the UK, go for it!

The consumer has always had the power to vote with their feet - pricing finds it's equilibrium when enough people say yes or no to a particular service offering.
Over the last decade we as a nation were too cash-rich and too time-poor to actually to bother doing anything about any of this.

FFS, don't revel in the plight of an industry that employs (directly and indirectly) tens of thousands of people.


There's no emoticon for what I'm feeling right now...

Drummerboy08

AudiChris wrote: »

Hooray, the motor industry's dead! The stealers have gotten their comeuppance! The customer wins again!


If anyone wants to PM me their phone number, I'll pass it on to one of the six employees that got let go on Friday from the garage where I work.
I'm not sure if they'll want join you in your celebrations though...

We're expecting another 2 people to go in the next day or two. I'm hoping I'm not one of them.


This thread is entirely inappropriate. You're talking about people's jobs here.
If you don't want to pay €100 per hour, DON'T GO TO A GARAGE THAT CHARGES THAT RATE!
If you want to sell your car privately and buy your car in the UK, go for it!

The consumer has always had the power to vote with their feet - pricing finds it's equilibrium when enough people say yes or no to a particular service offering.
Over the last decade we as a nation were too cash-rich and too time-poor to actually to bother doing anything about any of this.

FFS, don't revel in the plight of an industry that employs (directly and indirectly) tens of thousands of people.


There's no emoticon for what I'm feeling right now...

+1

I'm lucky to still be in a job, me oul lad is as quiet as he's ever been in 20 years, and i know of a lot of people who could be looking for a new job in the new year.

cowenstaff

Anan1 wrote: »

I've worked in a well-regarded Dublin dealership and had many dealings with others over the years. There are of course good people working in the motor trade in Ireland. Taken as a whole, though, it would be hard to find a more lazy and incompetent bunch of people anywhere. The Gardai, the HSE, and yes, even the government, are paragons of industry & efficiency in comparison to them. At least in my 20 years experience, that is.:)

They have their problems and need the odd reality check - sales were cocky and service had staff turnover problems - but not even in the same league as the HSE or councils - the head honchos in the banks still have their jobs even though thay have contributed to the speed that the recession has taken hold. Maybe I'm naive but would appreciate more feedback from you.

maidhc

AudiChris wrote: »

FFS, don't revel in the plight of an industry that employs (directly and indirectly) tens of thousands of people.

That is the way for everyone in the country who doesn't get get a paycheque for the paymaster general.

Biro

AudiChris wrote: »

Hooray, the motor industry's dead! The stealers have gotten their comeuppance! The customer wins again!


If anyone wants to PM me their phone number, I'll pass it on to one of the six employees that got let go on Friday from the garage where I work.
I'm not sure if they'll want join you in your celebrations though...

We're expecting another 2 people to go in the next day or two. I'm hoping I'm not one of them.


This thread is entirely inappropriate. You're talking about people's jobs here.
If you don't want to pay €100 per hour, DON'T GO TO A GARAGE THAT CHARGES THAT RATE!
If you want to sell your car privately and buy your car in the UK, go for it!

The consumer has always had the power to vote with their feet - pricing finds it's equilibrium when enough people say yes or no to a particular service offering.
Over the last decade we as a nation were too cash-rich and too time-poor to actually to bother doing anything about any of this.

FFS, don't revel in the plight of an industry that employs (directly and indirectly) tens of thousands of people.


There's no emoticon for what I'm feeling right now...

Unfortunately it's largely the same across the employment spectrum, except for the public sector - they can be as incompetent as they like and remain employed.
Also it's unfortunate that when the crunch comes the good sales guys and decent dealers get the hard result as much as the bad ones. There are a number of dealers where I've had dealings with that I will have no sympathy for, but there are many that don't deserve the poor reputation that the bad ones brought.
It's a serious situation regarding dealers though. It really will be the cog that breaks the whole economic gearbox. Drastic action is needed.
The country needs the money generated from VRT, like it or not that's the cold hard fact of the matter. Ironically, that's what's causing the biggest problem in the motor industry. What's the solution though? Abolish it completely so that it's not worth while go to England to buy a car? Or substitute it with something different?

Biro

cowenstaff wrote: »

They have their problems and need the odd reality check - sales were cocky and service had staff turnover problems - but not even in the same league as the HSE or councils - the head honchos in the banks still have their jobs even though thay have contributed to the speed that the recession has taken hold. Maybe I'm naive but would appreciate more feedback from you.

Said honchos should be in jail now.

Drummerboy08

Increase the VRT on imported vehicles, decrease the VRT on Irish vehicles. This will give the buyer more incentive to buy in ireland, will help restart the motor trade, and in turn help the other trades that are directly, and indirectly relying on it.

Anan1

Drummerboy08 wrote: »

Increase the VRT on imported vehicles, decrease the VRT on Irish vehicles. This will give the buyer more incentive to buy in ireland, will help restart the motor trade, and in turn help the other trades that are directly, and indirectly relying on it.

You want Irish car buyers to subsidise the motor trade? Thanks, but no thanks.

TheBazman

UK have just cut their VAT from 17.5% to 15% - cheaper UK motors down the line - another nail in the coffin for Irish dealers

Drummerboy08

People just dont seem to realise how important the motor trade is in this country.

What happens if every dealer in the country closes down? All the employees who bought their bread in your uncles bakery, their meat in your sisters butchers, got their hair cut in your brothers barbers, bought their TV's in your fathers electrical shop, cant afford it.

Now none of the former employees of the motor trade can afford to spend money in your family's or friends businesses, or spend it in companies that you or your friends and family work in. Which means your company takes the hit too. Then there's no VRT coming into the government, so they have to raise your taxes in order to subsidise the entire country.

There are thousands of people employed both directly and indirectly in the trade. See how funny you are when your taxes are raised to pay for all of these people's dole payments.

Like it or not, the motor trade is a massive part of this countries economy.

maidhc

Drummerboy08 wrote: »

People just dont seem to realise how important the motor trade is in this country.

What happens if every dealer in the country closes down? All the employees who bought their bread in your uncles bakery, their meat in your sisters butchers, got their hair cut in your brothers barbers, bought their TV's in your fathers electrical shop, cant afford it.

Now none of the former employees of the motor trade can afford to spend money in your family's or friends businesses, or spend it in companies that you or your friends and family work in. Which means your company takes the hit too. Then there's no VRT coming into the government, so they have to raise your taxes in order to subsidise the entire country.

There are thousands of people employed both directly and indirectly in the trade. See how funny you are when your taxes are raised to pay for all of these people's dole payments.

Like it or not, the motor trade is a massive part of this countries economy.

No No No No. I'm not even going to begin to describe how wrong that post is.

Drummerboy08

Go on, go for it.

If you can come up with a better solution i'm with you.

peasant

The whole system of how cars are sold is antiquated anyway.

If you want a new washing machine you don't go to a Bosch dealer, compare all their models, then to a Zanussi, Hotpoint, Miele, etc dealer and compare some more ...you go to Currys and do your comparisons there.

Neither do you haggle and ask them to throw in a pound of washing powder ...you compare prices from different shops beforehand and then you buy at the asking price or you don't.

Car supermarkets ftw