Motor Trade RIP (1888-2008)

Drummerboy08

Anan1 wrote: »

You seem to be missing lots. The kind of person who would say this:Is the kind of person most of us will be happy to see go to the wall. Not only do you shame yourself, but you shame professionals like AudiChris by association. Good riddance to you.

I have looked after anyone and everyonewho has ever bought a car from me. Not once has any customer or potential customer ever complained against me. I have lost deals sue to price, but any feedback i get from people suggests they're happy with my service.

I said that comment because people seem to think its acceptable to buy in the uk or elsewhere when times are hard, and complain about irish dealers, but when times come good again, they will dump the imports back into our forecourts.

I've spoken to alot of guys in dealers all over the country who say they will be giving a lower trade in price against imported vehicles in the future. Im not suggesting this, I'm just saying what alot of dealers feel.

I've also heard of cases where large dealers around the country will not do warranty work on imported vehicles. I know they should, but this is whats happening.

Best of luck with your imported vehicle.

Dazzy

Over the years myself and the wife have been sold cars from main dealers that have both had more owners on them that we were told. This was from a BWM and Land Rover main dealers. In the case of the BMW dealer they screwed us when we returned the car only giving us the marked down trade in price. With the Land Rover we got our full money back.
I'm in the market for a car right now and every dealer I ring I ask the same questions, how many owners, does it have a full service etc... answers are always 1 owner, full service but when I get there and check it's almost never the case.

In my opinion main dealer and non main dealers are the same except your likely to get a better result with a problem from a main dealer.

I would never believe what a salesperson would tell me about a car. Always get it fully checked out.

positron

Drummerboy08 wrote: »

I've also heard of cases where large dealers around the country will not do warranty work on imported vehicles. I know they should, but this is whats happening.

That's just silly. Even better for Northern dealers.

Drummerboy08

positron wrote: »

That's just silly. Even better for Northern dealers.

Not really any good if you live in Cork, Waterford, Wexford, Carlow, any southern county, even dublin.

Are your going to drive for 4 or 5 hours to get your motor serviced?

Anan1

Drummerboy08 wrote: »

Not really any good if you live in Cork, Waterford, Wexford, Carlow, any southern county, even dublin.

Are your going to drive for 4 or 5 hours to get your motor serviced?

You're missing the point. If any main dealer refused to do warranty work on an EU car because it wasn't sold here new, the owner would tell: 1. a solicitor, 2. the importer, and 3. everyone else they knew. In a nutshell, it'd be bye-bye dealer.

Speedy007

gyppo wrote: »

I used to use a main dealer in the midlands to get my 2l diesel car serviced, and had no complaints until recently. Their service charge used to be 200E for a minor service (oil, washer fluid,light checks, etc..), 300E for a major one (minor + fuel filter, etc).


The last minor service was 250E. Also, when I left it in, the service manager rang me after 20 minutes.
The following was a list of additional work which was needed, and their breakdown of costs:
Rear Brake pads - supply and fit - 160E
Rear handbrake cables - supply and fit - 255E
Flush, renew, and bleed brake fluid - 140E
Supply and fit 2 rear tyres - 280E


I didnt get the additional work done by the dealership.
I sourced a set or rear pads for 35E, a pair of handbrake cables for 55E, and fitted these items in 1.5hrs on my own driveway.
A pair of tyres were fitted for 210E at a local fitters. (incidentally, the tyre fitter told me that the dealers I used got all their tyre work done there)
The brake fluid is going to be renewed at an independant garage for 60E next week.

Thats a difference of 475E, which is a hell of an amount for labour charges.


It is my opinion, based on the above experience, that this particular dealer is trying to derive their main income from servicing, as they are no longer gaining any income from car sales. So, lets screw Joe Public to do so.

They have lost a customer for their efforts.

RIP the Motor Trade???
Small F***ing loss.

Surely, a mechanic is required to advise you of anything that requires attention on your car. Say he just did the oil change/service and a week later your brakes fail, you would be straight back on to the garage giving out because you were never informed. Of course you are not obliged to have the work done there, shopping around is always the best idea but also in these troubled times its no harm to ask a main dealer for discounts or to match prices you've been quoted elsewhere or ask if spurios parts can be used as a cheaper alternative. I know, if I went to a doctor or any professional about a what might be a minor issue, I want to know if he discovered something more sinister. Not everyone is out to rip people off, most people are just doing their job and trying to make a living like the rest of us.

I know this is the motoring forum but I have to agree with AudiChris - there is alot of Motor Dealer bashing going on here. Without meaning to sound like a politician but now more than ever there is lots of choice out there, good dealers, bad dealers and lots in between. I believe you should get what you pay for and if your not happy with it then speak with your dealer, tell them your expections (but be realistic and let them explain the prices they charge) and if your not happy find a dealer that will be more considerate - simple as!

Drummerboy08

Anan1 wrote: »

You're missing the point. If any main dealer refused to do warranty work on an EU car because it wasn't sold here new, the owner would tell: 1. a solicitor, 2. the importer, and 3. everyone else they knew. In a nutshell, it'd be bye-bye dealer.

What happens is the dealer will say " well sorry about this, our workshop is fully booked up for the next 4 weeks, we cant take it in until then"

The dealer then isnt refusing to do the work, has offered to take it in at a later date, so there's not really much a solicitor can do.

I'm not encouraging this, but this is happening in a lot of main dealers accross the country.

Anan1

Drummerboy08 wrote: »

What happens is the dealer will say " well sorry about this, our workshop is fully booked up for the next 4 weeks, we cant take it in until then"

The dealer then isnt refusing to do the work, has offered to take it in at a later date, so there's not really much a solicitor can do.

I'm not encouraging this, but this is happening in a lot of main dealers accross the country.

Have you ever heard of Darwin's theory of natural selection?

gyppo

Speedy007 wrote: »

Surely, a mechanic is required to advise you of anything that requires attention on your car. Say he just did the oil change/service and a week later your brakes fail, you would be straight back on to the garage giving out because you were never informed. Of course you are not obliged to have the work done there, shopping around is always the best idea but also in these troubled times its no harm to ask a main dealer for discounts or to match prices you've been quoted elsewhere or ask if spurios parts can be used as a cheaper alternative. I know, if I went to a doctor or any professional about a what might be a minor issue, I want to know if he discovered something more sinister. Not everyone is out to rip people off, most people are just doing their job and trying to make a living like the rest of us.

I know this is the motoring forum but I have to agree with AudiChris - there is alot of Motor Dealer bashing going on here. Without meaning to sound like a politician but now more than ever there is lots of choice out there, good dealers, bad dealers and lots in between. I believe you should get what you pay for and if your not happy with it then speak with your dealer, tell them your expections (but be realistic and let them explain the prices they charge) and if your not happy find a dealer that will be more considerate - simple as!

I agree with you - any garage worth its salt should inform an owner of any items that are defective. I was not disputing the need for these items being replaced.
That was not the issue here - my point was the exhorbitant charges involved.
I made an informed decision to get this work done elsewhere.
Based on the fact I was a loyal customer of several years, who doesnt take kindly to being ripped off, I've also made an informed choice to get future servicing done elsewhere.

Drummerboy08

Anan1 wrote: »

Have you ever heard of Darwin's theory of natural selection?

Can you explain that to me? I'm sorry, i've been too busy selling cars at stupidly expensive prices to old people.

maidhc

Drummerboy08 wrote: »

What happens is the dealer will say " well sorry about this, our workshop is fully booked up for the next 4 weeks, we cant take it in until then"

The dealer then isnt refusing to do the work, has offered to take it in at a later date, so there's not really much a solicitor can do.

I'm not encouraging this, but this is happening in a lot of main dealers accross the country.

Are you not biting the hand that feeds you?

Warranty work means pay. If you have, say, car that needs a substantial repair, would it not be nice to get the work?

After all, garages usually say they make their profits on servicing and repairs, and not sales.

Anan1

maidhc wrote: »

Are you not biting the hand that feeds you?

Of course he is, he's like a taxi driver - thinks we're all here to provide him with a living. Never mind, he'll be waking up shortly.;)

cowenstaff

Anan1 wrote: »

You're missing the point. If any main dealer refused to do warranty work on an EU car because it wasn't sold here new, the owner would tell: 1. a solicitor, 2. the importer, and 3. everyone else they knew. In a nutshell, it'd be bye-bye dealer.

Don't forget the Joe Duffy/ Marion Finucane threat, that really makes you look intelligent and assertive. You gotta remember - these are independant businesses, just like pubs - we all know the law when it comes refusing entry on the basis of being a member of the t*******ing community, but clever pubs use the private party sign when a posse of transits arrive in the car park, send your solicitor the details on that one.

Drummerboy08

maidhc wrote: »

Are you not biting the hand that feeds you?

Warranty work means pay. If you have, say, car that needs a substantial repair, would it not be nice to get the work?

After all, garages usually say they make their profits on servicing and repairs, and not sales.

Seriously lads, its not me who is doing this, like i said i dont encourage it.

Do you know how a warranty issue works? By rights it is more money for a dealer, but when a car that was registered in a different EU country before comes in, its a sticky situation. The dealer can do the work, but when he goes to claim this back from the manufacturer, they will say, "hold on, this car is listed as being registered in the UK dealer network, not ireland, were gonna have to look into this one, sorry guys", thus delaying payment to the dealer. This is why they dont like, and refuse to do warranty work.

peasant

cowenstaff wrote: »

these are independant businesses, just like pubs

ahhh, yes, publicans ....

Let's not go there as well, shall we?

Zube

AudiChris wrote: »

Why do the motor dealers get singled out for such vitriol?

Even if the service in the car trade was just as good or bad as any other trade, bad service feels worse when you're handing over a years salary than when it's just the price of a pint.

And in fact, I'm pretty sure I've been treated worse in a car dealership than I ever was in a pub, and I've been physically ejected from pubs.

CyberGhost

I dedicate this small violin to all the scumbag deals who screwed their customers over and over without concenquences. Enjoy your demise, I certainly will.

Owen

CyberGhost wrote: »

I dedicate this small violin to all the scumbag deals who screwed their customers over and over without concenquences. Enjoy your demise, I certainly will.

I don't think anyone in this discussion working in the trade disagrees that the underhanded Dealers are in for a well deserved wake up call. What we are saying, is that there are many employees of those companies who are not at fault, and they have families to support and mortgages to pay and could soon be out of work with little or no prospects.

I think everyone wishing that those people suffer on this thread should be ashamed of themselves.

niceirishfella

ned78 wrote: »

I think everyone wishing that those people suffer on this thread should be ashamed of themselves.

i don't think any right minded person here on boards is.............but the owner/operators/managers of large dealer franchises should be.

cancan

Drummerboy08 wrote: »

I've spoken to alot of guys in dealers all over the country who say they will be giving a lower trade in price against imported vehicles in the future. Im not suggesting this, I'm just saying what alot of dealers feel.

Price fixing eh?
Haven't SIMI members been caught enough times doing this, and do they not realise it's illegal?

E92

ned78 wrote: »

I think everyone wishing that those people suffer on this thread should be ashamed of themselves.

+1, but the slackers in the industry need to go, and the sooner the (many and varied) cowboys are gone the better it is for the good people in the industry and the consumer.

I know the marketing people think we all want glass showrooms, all we need is somewhere that is clean and well presented.

I have found that in general the amount of glass in a showroom is inversely proportional to the level of dealer service you can expect.

Having said that, I can't say a bad word about Kearys in Cork, but MSL turners X or Johnson and Perrot and I could talk for Ireland......

Drummerboy08

cancan wrote: »

Price fixing eh?
Haven't SIMI members been caught enough times doing this, and do they not realise it's illegal?

Wouldnt really call it price fixing. In their eyes, an imported car must not be as desirable when it comes to selling it on. Same way a damaged car is worth less than a straight one.

Its just a factor that they are taking into consideration when putting a value on a car.

peasant

Drummerboy08 wrote: »

Same way a damaged car is worth less than a straight one.

Unless they're selling it, of course

cancan

Drummerboy08 wrote: »

Wouldnt really call it price fixing. In their eyes, an imported car must not be as desirable when it comes to selling it on. Same way a damaged car is worth less than a straight one.

Its just a factor that they are taking into consideration when putting a value on a car.

I'd be interested to know how you come to this conclusion.

English Car = Damaged Car.....

Great logic - with business sense like that, it's no wonder ye are falling on hard times.

What about all the cars SIMI members import?
Since their primary motivation is profit, not quality as a private buyer would look for, would it not be the case that dealers have more reason to import the ****e?

Drummerboy08

cancan wrote: »

I'd be interested to know how you come to this conclusion.

English Car = Damaged Car.....

Great logic - with business sense like that, it's no wonder ye are falling on hard times.

What about all the cars SIMI members import?
Since their primary motivation is profit, not quality as a private buyer would look for, would it not be the case that dealers have more reason to import the ****e?

I didnt say an english car = a damaged car.

I said it is simply another factor that is taken into consideration when pricing the car. To alot of people, they wouldnt like to buy an imported car. Therefore it has to be priced accordingly.

Dont know, but i've never imported a car. I know of a dealer who has imported a few, but they've been fairly clean cars.

Darragh29

Interesting times ahead. I've said this before here on this forum and got laughed at for saying it, but the industry itself is dysfunctional and tilted in every way, in favour of the protected vested interests who own franchised dealerships.

If I'm an indy garage, I have to buy my parts from my competitor, the main dealership. This is like Ryanair having to buy jet fuel from Aer Lingus. There is no real competition in an industry where one whole section of the industry has to buy raw materials from the other section of the industry, which they are also competing with. Where you don't have effective competition, you don't have service standards that are improving or you don't see better value for money emerging over time... Sound familar???

niceirishfella

niceirishfella wrote: »

i don't think any right minded person here on boards is.............but the owner/operators/managers of large dealer franchises should be.

+1


I would certainly not wish for genuine people to lose their jobs. But unfortunately there are a lot of gangsters in the motor trade that need a good dose of reality. My parents have always bought their cars form main dealers and have shopped around for the best deals. But they have also moved away from many dealers due to offering crazy trade in values on cars or prices for repairs(900 euro to put a new cat in a fiesta and it wasnt even gone as the car passed the nct our local mechanic would have charged about 300 euro fitted for the cat). I bought my first car from the dealer that my dad was dealing with because he gave me a great deal on a carvan way cheaper than a private sale. My second car I bought private here and I went to the UK for the car I drive now partly because I lived there for a while but mainly because I was getting a better spec car for less than anywhere in Ireland.

When I go to buy my next car I will buy from a dealer only if they are cheaper than a private sale here or buying in the UK(again dealer only if getting a better deal than private there). Why should I spend more of my money than I have to?

kluivert

Same old same old.

Dealers are facing hard times, its there own fault let them get on with dealing with it.

The term I think is called overtrading. They built big service depots and showrooms with the expectation of selling X amount of cars which was not sustainable. Its their own fault if they couldnt see ahead.

Secondly, I believe that dealers where not forced into building expensive showrooms, they where given standard specs to which they had to meet, it was the owners that added in the extras, - I know this for a fact because I worked for a company that built the showrooms for dealers.

Thirdly, equipment costs, we live in a global market, a smart dealer would import the equipment from Asia or China themselves instead of buying of the distributors.

Next....If your not happy with paying big bucks for servicing, service the bloody car yourself and quit bitching about it. Buy a haynes manual. I only take my car to a garage for work that needs to be carried out by a mechanic.

At the end of the day, who fueled the dealers greed, yes you sitting in your overpriced car that you cant meet payments on and then give out about the servicing because you cant afford that either.

Zube

kluivert wrote: »

At the end of the day, who fueled the dealers greed, yes you sitting in your overpriced car that you cant meet payments on and then give out about the servicing because you cant afford that either.

But... but... I drive a 6 year old Kangoo!

cancan

Drummerboy08 wrote: »

I said it is simply another factor that is taken into consideration when pricing the car. To alot of people, they wouldnt like to buy an imported car. Therefore it has to be priced accordingly.

Seems to me that people are more than willing to buy english cars over irish cars at the minute.
Given they are in general better maintained, better speced and with better histories, and cheaper.

I'd say ye're not exactly awash in customers for your irish cars at the minute.
Perhaps if ye dropped the prices on irish cars to reflect this, ye may have some sales.

But no - trying to screw the irish customer out of a deal is the standard practise....
Esp when the SIMI is in cahoots with the Revenue over imported cars. (re: That famous letter...)

Funny how the gov gets nothing for the sale of a second hand irish car, yet reaps a big VRT reward with an import.
Imports actually help the revenue...