Motor Trade RIP (1888-2008)

cancan

I think the SIMI should be more than able to fix their own industry, since most of the stuff that they turned a blind eye to has come back and bit them in the rear.

Once they figure out that the customer is their god, they can go from there.

If the SIMI want to hire me or others here to tell them how inept they are, they should feel free to PM me.....

Perhaps a link on their website so people can complain about shoddy service would be a start, instead of their own website just ignoring the customer, just like all their members.

Darragh29

Drummerboy08 wrote: »

There are alot of problems with the SIMI - namely who they represent. Your right on that one. What can be done to change this?

- Reshuffle the current set up within the SIMI to represent more than just main dealers?

-Disband the SIMI and ask for a government committee to look after it?

- Seek a new, independant body to represent the trade?

There is no point in ranting and raving about the current problems, lets see something done about this. If any one has any suggestions as to what would bring irish consumers back into the showrooms please post them. Lets face it, granted that you save money by buying in the uk, but it is a massive inconvenience and risk to do so.

Suggestions anyone?

Rob

Agreed. The SIMI should be chalked down for what it is, a retirement club for old boys and a lobby group for the old boys in waiting.

I don't think it is a massive risk or inconvenience to buy in the UK and I don't think that buyers who are buying these cars think so either. Dealerships have to realise that some considerable time ago, they stopped offering value for money. It's easy to run a business when there is a lot of cash flowing around.

What I think what is going to happen is a lot of businesses are going to go to the wall in the industry, some deservedly and some not so deservedly.

I can't get my head around how come the motor industry is so back in the 1980's when it comes to basic things like:

Opening hours... By my reasoning, you should be able to get your car serviced when you are off work, in the evening, at the weekend, you very rarely see a garage open in the evenings or at weeekends..

Internet booking... You can do your banking online, book holidays online, buy groceries on line, but guess what you can't do online??? Basically anything to do with your car or its maintenance/service requirements...

This absolutely amazes me.

The only reason why this can be happening in 2008 is because there is a lack of forward thinking and a lack of a forum for forward thinking within the industry... There are two initiatives above that would improve standards within the industry, but the thing about initiatives is that they involve change and there also must be an appitite for the initiative. I was in a dealership lately and I asked the rep to email me on something and he said he couldn't because none of them had email, I thought he was winding me up!!!

There would appear to be an appitite for change within the industry, but there is a layer of people at the top who have made so much money from the current set up that they oppose change.

Its up to younger people in the industry to take ownership of the problems and drive change. What I think is required is an organisation that competes with the SIMI, a new representative organsation that businesses in the industry are invited to join, and the first thing they should do in my opinion and I said this recently on another thread, is book some big venue like the INEC or the RDS and have a conference and do a lot of listening to the people on the ground, and allow some fresh, inspired and creative thinking to emerge.

The old guard SIMI membership is fu*ked anyway. A lot of them will never get over what is currently unfolding, a new organisation is the answer I think with a new vibrant membership who see the key problems with the industry and can resolve to fix them, in particular...

(1) Lack of proper career structures within the industry...

(2) Lack of deployment of technology within the industry for improved customer services...

(3) An opening up of the industry, so franchised and non franchised outlets can compete fairly...

I could go on and on and on, but that's my solution to the problems...

CrowdedHouse

cancan wrote: »

If the SIMI want to hire me or others here to tell them how inept they are, they should feel free to PM me.....

Perhaps a link on their website so people can complain about shoddy service would be a start, instead of their own website just ignoring the customer, just like all their members.

See that's the problem - the dealers are their customer/paymaster we the public don't count with them

Darragh29

cancan wrote: »

I think the SIMI should be more than able to fix their own industry, since most of the stuff that they turned a blind eye to has come back and bit them in the rear.

Once they figure out that the customer is their god, they can go from there.

If the SIMI want to hire me or others here to tell them how inept they are, they should feel free to PM me.....

Perhaps a link on their website so people can complain about shoddy service would be a start, instead of their own website just ignoring the customer, just like all their members.

The SIMI don't do transparency, they don't do listening, they don't do accountability and they don't do feedback. Have you seen their website lately??? Have you ever been at an SIMI meeting??? It's about ego and who has the biggest swinging di*k in the room and opposing change where ever it can be opposed and pushing out anyone who opposes the franchised agenda. It amazes me how often you hear the word "no" at SIMI meetings, why there are so many reasons for not doing something and so the opportunity to improve something or change something, or even just to discuss improving or changing something is pushed out for another day and so the merrygoround continues...

copacetic

Drummerboy08 wrote: »

. Lets face it, granted that you save money by buying in the uk, but it is a massive inconvenience and risk to do so.

Yep, one day off work to save a fortune and get a years extra manufacturers warranty hardly seems worthwhile.:rolleyes:

Darragh29

copacetic wrote: »

Yep, one day off work to save a fortune and get a years extra manufacturers warranty hardly seems worthwhile.:rolleyes:

This is part of the SIMI spin, the consumer just isn't buying it and is voting with their feet and the industry again isn't getting the message.

No matter how many times this is repeated, that buying in the UK represents "massive risk and other resources", it is not necessarily true! The consumer isn't buying it, so it's clearly time to take the fingers out of the ears and listen to the message...

Drummerboy08

Is it not easier to go to the local dealer, rather than drive to dublin, cork, shannon, fly to uk, find a car, spend hours driving it back to ireland, then having to VRT it?

Honestly, tell me which is more convienent.

Also, i have no connections with the SIMI, im just speaking my mind here.

copacetic

Darragh29 wrote: »

This is part of the SIMI spin, the consumer just isn't buying it and is voting with their feet and the industry again isn't getting the message.

No matter how many times this is repeated, that buying in the UK represents "massive risk and other resources", it is not necessarily true! The consumer isn't buying it, so it's clearly time to take the fingers out of the ears and listen to the message...

agreed, they should give up the scare mongering and work on value and service. No-one wants to buy in the UK, they do it because the value here isn't with an arses roar of the value there. If it was even close the vast majority of people would buy here.

copacetic

Drummerboy08 wrote: »

Is it not easier to go to the local dealer, rather than drive to dublin, cork, shannon, fly to uk, find a car, spend hours driving it back to ireland, then having to VRT it?

Honestly, tell me which is more convienent.

Also, i have no connections with the SIMI, im just speaking my mind here.

Of course it is easier, most people try it first and get treated like crap.

-Chris-

cancan wrote: »

...if something is not selling at the price you have it for sale for, it is too expensive....

Funny, I've been in a position lately where I've had to say that (repeatedly) to my customers about the values of their trade-ins.
Some listen, some think I'm trying to profiteer, nowt I can do about it.

cancan wrote: »

Instead of bashing english cars, the vrt scheme, etc etc, maybe the dealers could try and figure out what they did wrong to get such a bad name.

cancan wrote: »

Should people spend more for less at SIMI dealerships to keep ye boys in business at their own expense?

cancan wrote: »

But they need to ask whether the service they provide is good enough?
And why do they have an image problem?

Hopefully a stronger better industry will emerge from these dark times....

I think all three of these comments are very telling.

I think the motor industry needs a governing body who can guarantee a high quality of service.
This body needs to manage the image of the industry (or at least their members) through public relations exercises, as well as disciplining & ejecting members who aren't up to the standards set.

I think, once you've established a benchmark of consistent quality, then those businesses are in a position to charge more than the less scrupulous or lower quality businesses.

The industry needs a shake up, and the consumer needs a better method of telling the good from the bad. Just because the garage has a prestige or well known brand guarantees nothing.

It would be nice as a consumer to know that, if you see an SIMI sticker in the window or a Ford logo above the door, that someone from those agencies is kicking serious ar$e to make sure that those accreditations are actually worth something.


Edit: beaten to it! You guys are much faster typers than me!

tontooreilly wrote: »

Anybody know what the margins on new cars are??

Yes. I doubt you'll get many of them posting that information on a public forum though, it's the kind of act that tends to negatively affect your career longevity...

samsemtex

cowenstaff wrote: »

Because, thats what they cost - if you want to put cheap ****e on your expensive car - go to Lidl - Mr. 'fur coat - no knickers!'

Wow if you actually believe wipers cost €55 you are an idiot and if you are in charge of a garage you deserve to go out of business. "cheap ****e?" when referring to wipers is a laugh. A premium pair should at most cost double that of an cheap pair not 10x.

Anyway, the way you are talking here is indicitive of why you lot are in trouble. You treat people like idiots and try to fob them off with excuses just like the one you are giving here. Condescending when you have no need or right to be.

i think this thread has showed that your motor industry is not going to be "sadly missed" as you claim.

Darragh29

AudiChris wrote: »

I think the motor industry needs a governing body who can guarantee a high quality of service.

Here's a question that I want to put to everyone, Chris has mentioned something here and I'm interested to know the following:

What constitutes a high level of service??? In terms of service (customer service, not vehicle service), what is the industry not currently doing that consumers want it to be doing???

Darragh29

samsemtex wrote: »

Wow if you actually believe wipers cost €55 you are an idiot and if you are in charge of a garage you deserve to go out of business. "cheap ****e?" when referring to wipers is a laugh. A premium pair should at most cost double that of an cheap pair not 10x.

Anyway, the way you are talking here is indicitive of why you lot are in trouble. You treat people like idiots and try to fob them off with excuses just like the one you are giving here. Condescending when you have no need or right to be.

i think this thread has showed that your motor industry is not going to be "sadly missed" as you claim.

In fairness the new type/design of wiper is expensive and stupidly so...

cancan

Darragh29 wrote: »

Here's a question that I want to put to everyone, Chris has mentioned something here and I'm interested to know the following:

What constitutes a high level of service??? In terms of service (customer service, not vehicle service), what is the industry not currently doing that consumers want it to be doing???

Getting quality work done at a resonable price.
Getting only work that is needed doing, done.
Well trained staff, who know what they are doing.

Basically, being able to trust the fact that your dealer is not trying to shaft you, which is the biggest gripe most people have.

End the pricefixing on new cars - allow dealers to complete


People don't care how big or shiny your showroom is, if it means you'll rape them on the purchase.

Some poor lad here today had the radio in his kia break.
The dealer wanted 1500 quid ffs.
Shafting your existing customers when you are going broke is not going to save your business.

Let them go broke if this is how they treat people.

samsemtex

Darragh29 wrote: »

In fairness the new type/design of wiper is expensive and stupidly so...

This was for the blades. And if it was for the entire thing, which it wasnt, then they were pointlessly charging for a piece that wasnt needed.

peasant

Darragh29 wrote: »

Here's a question that I want to put to everyone, Chris has mentioned something here and I'm interested to know the following:

What constitutes a high level of service??? In terms of service (customer service, not vehicle service), what is the industry not currently doing that consumers want it to be doing???

First of all ...cut the muppetry:

The sharp intake of breath combined with the doubtful shake of the head

The "I have to talk to the manger about this" theatre

Call me back when you say you will

Know more about the stuff you're selling than I do but don't condescend

...that would be a good start.:D

Darragh29

cancan wrote: »

Getting quality work done at a resonable price.
Getting only work that is needed doing, done.
Well trained staff, who know what they are doing.

Basically, being able to trust the fact that your dealer is not trying to shaft you, which is the biggest gripe most people have.

End the pricefixing on new cars - allow dealers to complete


People don't care how big or shiny your showroom is, if it means you'll rape them on the purchase.

Some poor lad here today had the radio in his kia break.
The dealer wanted 1500 quid ffs.
Shafting your existing customers when you are going broke is not going to save your business.

Let them go broke if this is how they treat people.

I once suggested to a mate of mine who runs a dealership that he look at the NCT and allow customers see into the workshop by putting windows into a wall, I suggested it would reinforce transparency and allow people to see that their car was bring worked on, etc, etc, etc.

His reply was that he couldn't ever do this because his business model couldn't faciliate this, ever. We discussed the whole thing for ages and he eventually said that it would be a nightmare because he had a system that worked along these lines:

Full service: 2 hours

Timing belt on a XXX, YYY, ZZZ: 3.5 Hours

And so on and so on...

He said he has staff who can do a service in 1 hour and a timing belt in 2 hours. If he allowed customers look into his workshop, they would not pay a bill for 3.5 hours labour when the actual time by their observation was 2 hours. Now he argues that he has mechanics who will take 3.5 hours to do the timing belt and 2 hours to do the service, but the book time for these tasks is 3.5 hours and 2 hours, so that's what he charges, regardless of how quickly these tasks are done...

Highsider

Darragh29 wrote: »

I once suggested to a mate of mine who runs a dealership that he look at the NCT and allow customers see into the workshop by putting windows into a wall, I suggested it would reinforce transparency and allow people to see that their car was bring worked on, etc, etc, etc.

His reply was that he couldn't ever do this because his business model couldn't faciliate this, ever. We discussed the whole thing for ages and he eventually said that it would be a nightmare because he had a system that worked along these lines:

Full service: 2 hours

Timing belt on a XXX, YYY, ZZZ: 3.5 Hours

And so on and so on...

He said he has staff who can do a service in 1 hour and a timing belt in 2 hours. If he allowed customers look into his workshop, they would not pay a bill for 3.5 hours labour when the actual time by their observation was 2 hours. Now he argues that he has mechanics who will take 3.5 hours to do the timing belt and 2 hours to do the service, but the book time for these tasks is 3.5 hours and 2 hours, so that's what he charges, regardless of how quickly these tasks are done...

Would say im shocked but TBH everybody knows this goes on within the motor industry so im not

CrowdedHouse

Darragh29 wrote: »

but the book time for these tasks is 3.5 hours and 2 hours, so that's what he charges, regardless of how quickly these tasks are done...

And that is milking the customer or as I prefer Plain Dishonest

Darragh29

peasant wrote: »

First of all ...cut the muppetry:

The sharp intake of breath combined with the doubtful shake of the head

The "I have to talk to the manger about this" theatre

Call me back when you say you will

Know more about the stuff you're selling than I do but don't condescend

...that would be a good start.:D

Because on the service end of things, I've had all this from the opposite perspective. I left the industry because of the messing that went on from the customers end, which I eventually worked out that I wasn't really cut out for. I made my place as transparent as possible but often I'd end up at the end of the working day spending an hour explaining to some gimp mate of a customer of mine who was dragged down to check the info I was giving, for authenticity.

This was time I couldn't charge for.

I'm really interested in understanding what can be done to improve transparency within the industry, so that value where it is there can be percieved as being good value and where it is absent, that it can be identified as such. When we go into Eurospar or anywhere else, we can't ask the proprietor how much the sliced pan we just bought, was bought for by the shop and how much profit is being made by the shop on my purchase...

My experience is that no matter what you do or what steps you take, people simply do not want to spend money on their cars...

Darragh29

Highsider wrote: »

Would say im shocked but TBH everybody knows this goes on within the motor industry so im not

But the other side of this argument is that sometimes you'd go to do a service and something will act up, same with any car part, something will break, something will happen that you didn't plan for and take you more time to resolve and I can certainly identify with this, so you have to allow and provide for 2 hours to do the job...

For example not so long ago I serviced a car that some genius had taken the air filter out of, so I had to spend half an hour cleaning out the inlet tract from the throttle body back to the air filter housing and I couldn't charge the customer the time for that...

-Chris-

Darragh29 wrote: »

Here's a question that I want to put to everyone, Chris has mentioned something here and I'm interested to know the following:

What constitutes a high level of service??? In terms of service (customer service, not vehicle service), what is the industry not currently doing that consumers want it to be doing???

It seems people want consistency in action - that people do what they say they'll do. That's fair enough.

But people also keep asking for transparency
in pricing
in profits/margins
in time spent servicing the car (and what qualifications the person doing the servicing has)
in diagnosis
in history of trade in
why you built a showroom of the design/size you did
etc. etc.

And this is as well as autonomous staff who have the power to negotiate as far as they want


I don't think all these wants can be satisfied adequately no matter what a dealer does.

Darragh29

AudiChris wrote: »

It seems people want consistency in action - that people do what they say they'll do. That's fair enough.

But people also keep asking for transparency
in pricing
in profits/margins
in time spent servicing the car (and what qualifications the person doing the servicing has)
in diagnosis
in history of trade in
why you built a showroom of the design/size you did
etc. etc.

And this is as well as autonomous staff who have the power to negotiate as far as they want


I don't think all these wants can be satisfied adequately no matter what a dealer does.

I think transparency in diagnostics is perfectly do-able. Time spent servicing the car, I think this is also do-able, but not if your charging 200-300 Euro for a 20 minute oil change.

I think a lot of dealerships are running on this pseudo pricing system, where jobs that take X amount of time are charged out at X times 2 for labour. I also think that prices for non service parts are sometimes insane. Items like oil seals for example sometimes 80 Euro from a dealer, you can go down to Abbey Seals in JFK and get the exact same oil seal, same make and everything stamped on it, for 1.75 Euro.

cancan

AudiChris wrote: »

It seems people want consistency in action - that people do what they say they'll do. That's fair enough.

But people also keep asking for transparency
in pricing
in profits/margins
in time spent servicing the car (and what qualifications the person doing the servicing has)
in diagnosis
in history of trade in
why you built a showroom of the design/size you did
etc. etc.

And this is as well as autonomous staff who have the power to negotiate as far as they want


I don't think all these wants can be satisfied adequately no matter what a dealer does.

It would not be that difficult for each dealer to stick up a price list of

a) What the labour rate is.
b) The cost for various jobs.

on their website?
At least then you could compare dealers.


Dealers should be able to compete on price at the end of the day for both sales and service.

Don't know why they have to make everything so bloody mysterious.
Selling/Servicing a car is not bloody rocket science.

The only reason to hide so much of the workings is that you are ripping people off.

If you went down to the butcher and asked him how much a dozen sausages were, he wouldn't stand there for 15 minutes sucking through his teeth, telling you how long it took to kill the pig, and that the current pig killer is a bit slow, that you need a ham and a turkey too and on and on....

-Chris-

Darragh29 wrote: »

I once suggested to a mate of mine who runs a dealership that he look at the NCT and allow customers see into the workshop by putting windows into a wall...

...He said he has staff who can do a service in 1 hour and a timing belt in 2 hours. If he allowed customers look into his workshop, they would not pay a bill for 3.5 hours labour when the actual time by their observation was 2 hours. Now he argues that he has mechanics who will take 3.5 hours to do the timing belt and 2 hours to do the service, but the book time for these tasks is 3.5 hours and 2 hours, so that's what he charges, regardless of how quickly these tasks are done...

I think you're absolutely right with this post and your subsequent post Darragh.

I'd love to have a workshop with one glass wall so that people could see their cars being serviced, I think it would also lead mechanics to take more care and pride in their work when they can see the customers they're working for.


As you pointed out, the problem with the menu pricing - 2 hours for service, no matter how long it takes - makes people think they're being ripped off if the service doesn't take that long to do, yet they'd be unprepared to pay more if the service takes longer than it should have.

You'd also have the possibility of two customers having a conversation of
a) "my service cost €150 and only took an hour"
b) "that's crazy, I had the same work done as you, but I've been charged €250 for two hours!"
a) "oh yeah, well I asked for Derek to work on my car, he's the fastest."

Unfortunately, not everyone is above average, in fact at least half the population are below average.
What's next - a service adviser says "you can have Derek work on your car, the labour rate is €120per hour. If you can't afford that, Mike is only €80 per hour, but he's not as talented as Derek"?


And when you can see your car and are paying by-the-minute, you'll have customers holding stopwatches and saying "I'm only paying for 37 minutes - I'm not paying for the time the mechanic took to park my car on the ramp, to look up information in manuals, waiting at the parts counter for the parts or the time they were on hold while they were getting technical information from the distributor".

Moving cars can eat up a lot of a mechanic's productive time.

If the dealer doesn't have a required part in stock and sends the parts van to another dealer to get it, how much would you be happy to be charged for the van driver's time?


The next step from all this is a requirement for customers to prepare their car for service just like the NCT preparations - you turn up at an appointed time, you bring the car to the entry door and hand it over to the mechanic.
If you haven't left your service manual open on the passenger seat, it won't be stamped.
If you have stuff in the boot, your spare won't be checked for condition or pressure.
If you complain of a rattle or squeak but you forget to clear out your glovebox or the change from your ashtray, we won't be attempting to diagnose the problem.

As soon as you put a minute-by-minute value on a mechanic's time, you're going to get a lot of push-back from the dealer on what your responsibilities in the whole transaction are. That may be fine for the techies on boards.ie who service their cars anyway, but would you like to see the same responsibilites being put on your granny and her Polo?


Where will we draw the line when it comes to dealer transparency?

Darragh29

cancan wrote: »

It would not be that difficult for each dealer to stick up a price list of

a) What the labour rate is.
b) The cost for various jobs.

on their website?
At least then you could compare dealers.


Dealers should be able to compete on price at the end of the day for both sales and service.

Don't know why they have to make everything so bloody mysterious.
Selling/Servicing a car is not bloody rocket science.

The only reason to hide so much of the workings is that you are ripping people off.

If you went down to the butcher and asked him how much a dozen sausages were, he wouldn't stand there for 15 minutes sucking through his teeth, telling you how long it took to kill the pig, and that the current pig killer is a bit slow, that you need a ham and a turkey too and on and on....

The one thing that used to get on my t*ts was when I'd be doing something like a clutch or an engine replacement and I'd find something else along the way that needed doing just by being attentive to detail and looking out for the customer, for example a busted CV boot or an engine mounting or a exhaust that was leaking/corroded.

I'd contact them and advise accordingly but there was never a single occasion when I'd be thanked for it, it was always messing messing and more messing, "I'll get the part in a scrap yard, you can't charge me any more labour for that, can I get the part myself I'll have a mate call down to you tomorrow to look at it........" And these were customers who were being decent about it, I also got the, "ffs how do I know you are telling me the truth???, I think you are you robbing me, all you mechanics are wa*kers, robbing c*nts, etc, etc, etc......"


So there are two sides to the argument...

R.O.R

If people want to know how much service items are going to cost then: http://www.autodata.ltd.uk/product.asp?prod=Repair_Times_2007

As far as I'm aware this gives the labour time on all processes you could possibly think of, and it's what main dealers use to charge out labour times so you don't get the instance of Mike and Derek that Chris posted above.

Mr.Boots

I realy cant say i feel sorry for the dealers or the people loosing their jobs, i have changed my car roughly every 9 mounths for the past 10 years or so, i rarely came accross good customer service in a garage, and to be honest in recent years it has only got worse.
The actual showrooms they are building are rediculas, they must cost a fortune to heat, cool, staff, light, rates, insurance, maintain, ect ect, the list is endless, so how do you think they pay for this???? They rode you and me!
We all were getting paid alot more than ever before, we were getting greedier than before and when we saw something we wanted, we wanted it NOW!
So i guess the dealer has taken advantage of this greedy, materialistic socity and given it what it craves and in doing this has removed the customer service element.
I remember when i was young(in the 80's) and my dad got a new car, it was a huge thing, the neighbours would come to see it, have a spin in it etc.
Nowadays its just another disposable material posecession and the dealer sees this and treats it accordingly.
This dosnt excuse the dealers behaviour, but i guess they will have to learn their art again.
I could give you many many examples of poor customer service but i will confine it to one for the moment
Phoned Bolands in Waterford 3 weeks ago looking for a 09 Land Rover, gave my info etc, was told i will be phoned back, i wasnt...
I phoned again a few days later...gave my details again......Told i would be phoned back....i wasnt
Phoned them a third time....gave dtails again(getting annoyed at this stage) told i would be phoned back.....and guess what....i wasnt.....3 weeks later and still no call.

reverandkenjami

samsemtex wrote: »

Wow if you actually believe wipers cost €55 you are an idiot and if you are in charge of a garage you deserve to go out of business. "cheap ****e?" when referring to wipers is a laugh. A premium pair should at most cost double that of an cheap pair not 10x.

Darragh29 wrote: »

I also think that prices for non service parts are sometimes insane. Items like oil seals for example sometimes 80 Euro from a dealer, you can go down to Abbey Seals in JFK and get the exact same oil seal, same make and everything stamped on it, for 1.75 Euro.

But the problem most dealers face is the fact they don't set the prices. Prices are set by the manufacturer/distributor. Dealers, like all businesses have margins, can give discount to a certain degree etc. But if the dealer is buying off the distributor for €65 and RRP is €80 - how on earth is it the dealers fault you can get one for €1.75??? The blame lies further up the chain, not with the dealer.. Most people seem to be of the perception that dealers are robbing customers blind on parts when pricing is in fact out of their control.

Mr.Boots wrote: »

The actual showrooms they are building are rediculas, they must cost a fortune to heat, cool, staff, light, rates, insurance, maintain, ect ect, the list is endless, so how do you think they pay for this????

Alot of franchised dealers don't have a choice but to build large showrooms. Its how the manufacturer wants its brand to be portrayed!! Its no coincidence alot of same brand dealers look the same!!


As for your experience with Bolands, why not try somewhere else, if Bolands aren't treating you as you wish, vote with your feet and go somewhere else, its the only way bad dealers will change imo

Mr.Boots wrote: »

I realy cant say i feel sorry for the people loosing their jobs

Well,Mr Boots i hope your job doesn't have to shut up shop anytime soon, maybe then you might have a bit of sympathy for the average dealer staff who haven't been getting rich off the backs of consumers

NewApproach

reverandkenjami wrote: »

But the problem most dealers face is the fact they don't set the prices. Prices are set by the manufacturer/distributor. Dealers, like all businesses have margins, can give discount to a certain degree etc. But if the dealer is buying off the distributor for €65 and RRP is €80 - how on earth is it the dealers fault you can get one for €1.75??? The blame lies further up the chain, not with the dealer.. Most people seem to be of the perception that dealers are robbing customers blind on parts when pricing is in fact out of their control.

How can you defend a dealer for charging €80 for a part thats available at €1.75? The dealer is the bigger eejit for paying the €65 for it if thats what it cost him, if the same part is available at a tiny fraction of that cost.