It Beggars Belief

redarmyblues

The British government is set to reduce its headline VAT rate from 17.5% to 15% in a bid to bolster consumer spending in the face of a deepening recession. The 2.5% reduction in the UK VAT rate has serious implications for Businesses in the Border area. With forecourt fuel prices falling and sterling at an historic low, traders in the region are jumping up and down for joy/looking for a revolver. Compare the imaginative approach adopted in the UK with the Irish Governments budget response where the top rate of VAT here is set to increase from 21% to 21.5% in the New Year. The Coalition has been caught with their trousers round their ankles. Things are bad enough already. There are reportedly 26 checkouts in operation in Asda in Enniskillen on a Monday morning. They have had to close the shop during business hours to restock the shelves. Yesterday in Dunne’s in Cranmore shoppers did not have to queue to pay for their purchases. Canny shoppers from Sligo have to travel deeper into the North to avoid the crowds in Enniskillen

Ireland has a very high level of indirect taxes. These stealth taxes allowed successive Irish Governments to avoid unpalatable taxes on incomes and capital gains, taxes which people tend to take personally as they are required to allocate a portion of their income to meet demands. Indirect taxes are invisible and people are unaware of the rates of tax that they are paying when they buy goods and services. Taxes which can be avoided by travelling north, if you can afford private transport,

Indirect taxes are fundamentally unfair, the less you earn the higher proportion of your income you pay in indirect taxes. High sales taxes have made this part of Ireland a no go area for tourists in the last few years. Surely the time has come for Fianna Fail to stop trying to keep most of the voters happy most of the time and show some leadership for a change, reduce VAT to UK levels and make up the shortfall with direct taxation. A cut in rates will increase spending in the state and curtail the loss of revenues to the exchequer.

John Gormley expects that the British Government ought to ensure that our respective tax rates stay in sync to ensure that neither The UK nor Ireland enjoys a competitive advantage. What drivel, our bank rescue package and low Corporation Tax rates lead to outflows from the UK to Ireland. Alistair Darling and the British business community now enjoy a delicious revenge for our economic unilateralism. So we now know our Governments response will be a round of prevarication followed by inaction. The Government could reduce the top rate of Vat to 15% as a temporary measure. But would Irish business pass on the savings to customers?

The Government has more important thing on its mind than future of the economy the scourge of beggars must be addressed first. Dermot Ahern will fine these miscreants €700 for the privilege, I would have thought that if you had €700 you wouldn’t go begging in the first place. What is certain is that if you don’t have it you will have to go once more a begging to get the money to pay the fine. You could not make it up.

dardevle

can't argue with anything ya said there-would
much rather take the hit from direct taxation
than the feeling of having my pocket picked
every time i make a purchase.another thing that
should be tackled in my opinion is the price
differential north and south between stores under
the same corporate umbrella.


logistics me arse:mad:

il gatto

Actually begging in pplaces like the center of Dublin can be very profitable. Nice to know seeing as there's a good chance that'll become a main source of employment in the near future.
Fianna Fail have had a free run in government for 18 of the last 20 years. They are so far out of touch they're almost in orbit. If people weren't going to suffer so much, I'd be almost smug because people voted like sheep led by the media. "Safe pair of hands for the economy"? My ar5e. Anyone who re-elected the most corrupt party in the state (handy most of the people found to be involved are dead or nobodys), based on their own slice of the wealth, ignoring the gross mismanagement and squander of the incumbants, deserve everything they get from this recession. It's a shame the people who didn't want their overpaid, under qualified backsides back in, will be dragged down too.
Appealing to nationalist sentiment as a screen for fleecing the poor, struggling and sick? Shameful. And yet still some people will always turn up to defend the indefensible. Like the prime minister of a country of 4 million being paid more than the prime minister of a country of 80 million.
And after paying barristers €3000 a day, turning down the chance of cutting that by two thirds 2 years ago, the person charged is the one doling out the bribes, not the panhandling weasles who accepted the bribes, surely the more serious offence.
But there's no shame in this country and resignation is a laughable notion apparently. Without honour, decency or shame, power will have to be prised from their cold, dead fingers.
Worst of it is, now the money's all long gone, if an alternative government came to power, they'd get it in the neck and five years down the line, FF would waltz right back in.

takola

Fail to see what this has to do with Sligo. I'm locking it. Feel free to PM me if I've missed something and it does have some relevance to the forum.

takola

Re-opened at redarmyblues request.

Please try to keep this related to Sligo and how it will effect Sligo.

Thanks.

darealtulip

when the sterling goes up it will be of no effect, the sterling is very low at the minute and a 2,5% on 100 sterling is only 2,50, hardly worth driving for. We go over the border since the sterling went down a lot, first we paid 1.51 for 1 pound and now 1.23 This is a much bigger differance then the 2.5%. Not a lot of shops closed because of this. This is always a issue at borders every where. The people from the north get their petrol here coz its cheaper, That the risk/virtue from living and having a bussiness at the border

there are more things that chase people over the border see: Car Parking in Sligo - when will Borough Council increase it?

il gatto

takola wrote: »

Re-opened at redarmyblues request.

Please try to keep this related to Sligo and how it will effect Sligo.

Thanks.

The fact that people in Sligo are losing their jobs, working three day weeks and being taxed through various and unfair means. By a government that has failed Sligo in many different ways throughout the good years. We had a FF T.D. knife his electorate in the back over cancer care in the hospital and now he's supported a budget of the most dubious morals.
Sligo benefitted only in part from what was doled out all over the country and now will suffer due to the lack of expenditure on infrastucture and it's location near the border with an area of low VAT.
I think it's all relavent to Sligo.

saltandpepper

Much of our current troubles we have brought upon ourselves. We have lived in an economy where we have been taken for a ride for the last number of years.... not alone by the Govt. who have a lot to answer for but the shops/businesses in our own town. Some examples...Diesel is still up to 106.9c when if you were to match the price now with the the same price (eg $50 per barrel oil) on the way up a couple of years ago we should be paying less than 90c per gal.... British published magazines etc are little different in price (at least the ones on TV/Satellite and I.T) to two years ago when Euro was 67-68c to Sterling versus 85c today....Just today I was with my densist to replace a Crown with 6 teeth and he quoted me 1000 euro. Two dentists in E'killen last week quoted me 550 euro.I can go on and on. Dunnes,Tesco in Sligo would be full if they took on "The North" and reduced margins for a period of time and in most cases people wouldn't travel. Also many items sold particularly in Tesco are from the U.K. and where is the continuous price reduction to match the Sterling effect rather than stupid weekend offers.Maybe when these businesses are "empty" for a period of time they will get the message

T runner

The current situation is not good and not just for Sligo and Ireland.
The fact that there is a border in such a small country throws up a lot of anomalies like differences in prices, petrol etc.
I suppose if we can afford it all we can do is buy local (Sligo) to help local economy.
Dont think its fair to lump absolutely everything at the governments door or the people who voted for them. The opposition made them look good, to be honest, peolple can only vote for whats in front of them.
Anyone who feels strongly enough should show it by running themselves or helping a candidate they like in the next election.
In the meantime we will have to help ourselves and for me that will mean buying local and being biased for Irish produce (North and South).when buying local.



Just saw salt and Peppers point and I agree somewhat. I would say shop around when buying local and dont allow yourself to be ripped off under any circumstances. And give anyone trying to ripp you off a piece of your mind! Let them know you wont be back!

The law against begging is an absolute disgrace. Everyone should have the right to ask for a bit of help. This is a veiled attempt to remove that right.

il gatto

People who made a killing these past few years may have brought it on themselves, but the average citizen didn't benefit much and is paying the price for a minority having gained.
The opposition made the government look good? Not in my eyes. Apparently a huge majority would like Richard Bruton to run the economy. That is what was proposed by the alternative government and yet people didn't want that at the time as there seemed to be an "I'm alright Jack" attitude and the "safe pair of hands" tripe purveyed by the media.
Shopping local is of dubious value apart from propping up jobs, which is a luxury for most people who can't spend the extra. Many of these shops are suffering due to fresh competition in the town rather than any wider economic circumstance.
The VAT cut in the north will have devastating effects on retail all along the border, and having been screwed over by many retailers over the years, people's loyalty, as well as their wallet, won't stretch to spending over the odds for staples like food and drink.

T runner

I feel that if there is value after shopping around in Sligo to be had, I will be shopping there. Propping up local business is good as thats where many people work. We all had to buy Irish and local back in the 80's to get us out of the last jam.
I dont feel a loyalty to the government but I do to the country and my local areas so my loyalty will stretch to paying over odds for staples like food (is drink a staple?) provided im not being ripped off.
Im aware of what Takola said about keeping it Sligo so just a small word on the last election. I felt Enda Kenny failed to convince anyone in the last election being soundly beaten by the Bertie in the debate. The alliance with labour was good for FG but bad for labour. Labour could have taken seats from FF big time but they allowed the election to turn into traditional FF v FG fare and there was only going to be one winner there (seeing the economy was still growing at thtime.) No use Bruton being popular now he needed to convince then and he failed. If a country's economy is growing the government generally gets returned. This is only logical.
Anyway I think the really poor in Sligo probably wont benefit much no matter who gets in. Some things are recession proof I guess.
Declan Bree will get my vote if he goes next time.

darealtulip

I'm only loyal to my wallet and refuse to take part in 'support your local rip off' In dublin and galway you get better value then in sligo coz they know you have to travel for better prices. Hooray for internet shopping even with delivery costs it's cheaper, wish I could do the weekly shop over the net!!!:D

Big_Mac

Anyone seen the front page of the weekender this week? There is a plea for shoppers to shop locally and not head over the border because jobs will be lost..

I see. Tell that to the people that can't afford to shop in this town

redarmyblues

The Sligo Chamber of Horrors are urging Sligo people via their in house magazines (the local rags) to shop locally this Christmas. They seem completely unaware that there are locals who would rather pay more to shop in Enniskillen that give a single cent to Sligo Strangers to Commerce members ,such is the level of badwill out there.

Most people will make a rational desicion, if there were no pricing differences between Sligo and Enniskillen apart from taxes a person shopping in the north rather than the south will spend 6% less on purchases. They will save e600 on every 10k they spend. Even if Southern business were to become more competitive (unlikely) and exchange rate advantages were diminished (UK enters the Euro at .78) traders in the Sligo face a significant structural disadvantage, that cannot be eliminated without Government intervention. If this imbalance remains in the longer term it could have a horrendous impact on the local economy.

TequilaMockingBird

I am painfully aware how important it is to support local businesses. My business was struggling this time last year, at what should have been the busiest time of the year. I closed up in early January.

Yet, I have done all my Christmas shopping online this year. The possible 50% price difference is not one I can afford to ignore. Needs must. I work for a local business now, and I was told today my job is probably gone mid December, this is a business where the product can be bought online much cheaper...

In the 80s we didn't have the internet, we bought Irish mainly because we had no option. It is very different now.

frag420

I think it is ironic that we are being asked to refrain from crossing the border to the north to do our shopping and save a few euros(eu=no trade barriers remember) but the local council are more than happy to have a northern ireland company(north stone) resurface the sligo-bundoran rd .
I fully intend to buy my pressies and xmas booze across the border. Maybe i could use the booze to forget about how we are getting ripped of this side of the border!!

giddy up

redarmyblues

In theory everybody supports the local woman and the small man. In fact nobody will spend more than they feel they can afford.

T runner

To be honest I can probably afford to buy local. Im not rich, but am safe enough in my job, luckily.

Sorry to hear about the business and the job Sueme hope your luck changes soon.

Daroxtar

I was down home from the big smoke 2 weeks ago and regardless of whatever is being said here, the shops were full and the streets buzzing. I was actually shocked by the amount of women with bags and bags of clothes, shoes, whatever. Maybe nobody told them about the abyss we're hurtling into.

il gatto

T runner wrote: »

I feel that if there is value after shopping around in Sligo to be had, I will be shopping there. Propping up local business is good as thats where many people work. We all had to buy Irish and local back in the 80's to get us out of the last jam.
I dont feel a loyalty to the government but I do to the country and my local areas so my loyalty will stretch to paying over odds for staples like food (is drink a staple?) provided im not being ripped off.
Im aware of what Takola said about keeping it Sligo so just a small word on the last election. I felt Enda Kenny failed to convince anyone in the last election being soundly beaten by the Bertie in the debate. The alliance with labour was good for FG but bad for labour. Labour could have taken seats from FF big time but they allowed the election to turn into traditional FF v FG fare and there was only going to be one winner there (seeing the economy was still growing at thtime.) No use Bruton being popular now he needed to convince then and he failed. If a country's economy is growing the government generally gets returned. This is only logical.
Anyway I think the really poor in Sligo probably wont benefit much no matter who gets in. Some things are recession proof I guess.
Declan Bree will get my vote if he goes next time.

Fair enough if you feel like you can afford to spend more for the peace of mind of supporting local business. Many people can't or won't.
The winning of the Bertie/Enda debate is debatable. On one hand we had Enda making a point and on the other, Bertie, batting down questions, acting obtuse ("I don't kknow what you're trying to say Deputy Kenny".). Obtuseness and bully boy tactics of sniggering and speaking over people was hard to stomach. It was also badly chaired. So I felt slightly shocked when the next day, the media were of the same opinion as you. I have no party allegiance at all, but this government has been ripping the p1ss for a long time. I thought that debate was a microcosm of FF tactics and attitude to the public and opposition. The fact that the national broadcaster trawled up John Watters, Eamonn Dunphy and Eoghan Harris on the "Late, Late" to all voice the view that Bertie had won and he was the right man suggested that there was a will from the media to give FF a leg up when they'd been behind in the polls. I mean, Eoghan Harris was made a Senator by Bertie Aherne after the election. It smacks of cronyism and payment for a job well done.
These things that people are enraged about at the moment (over spending on projects, nepotism, the HSE, school buildings, minister's "expenses", FAS), have been ongoing for years, and FF were unelectable but now that this government is on it's last legs, it seems o.k. for the papers to "expose" what they knew was happening all along.
Richard Bruton was the same man with the same abilities then. It's not a matter of convincing people you're anything other than what you are. It's called integrity. Something Irish media and politicians are not overly familiar with.

takola

il gatto wrote: »

The winning of the Bertie/Enda debate is debatable.

Please take that discussion to the politics forum.

This thread is to deal with local concerns. It's ok to reference national politics/economics but that that is just taking the thread off-topic.

Hail 2 Da Chimp

takola wrote: »

This thread is to deal with local concerns.

This is a local thread, for local people!