Think I'm being messed about

ergonomics

Just looking for a bit of advice.

I bought a 2nd hand 1999 Fiesta from a Ford dealer in July. I was given a 6 month warranty with the car. They have dealt with it since it first came into the country as it was their showroom car so I was quite happy to deal with them when I had problems.

In September I dropped it in as I was having a problem with the electrics. Sometimes when I opened the door the interior light wouldn't come on, nor would the alarm if I left my lights on and sometimes the back wiper wouldn't come on. I figured they were all related. Took a day off college to drop it in as the garage is not in the place place as college and was called at lunchtime to tell me everything was done. Couple of days later, same problems start happening. It was only minor so I ignored it.

Today I dropped it in again as I was getting a knocking sound from my front driver side wheel. Had to take another day of college very close to my exams but I was really worried about the wheel. Dropped it in at 9 and got a called at 2.45 to tell me my car was ready but they couldn't find anything wrong with the wheel, and couldn't hear any noise but they had tightened everything up anyway. I asked if I could bring it back if the noise came back and they said that was fine, so I collected my car an hour later.

First thing I noticed when I got in the car was a pay and display parking ticket from the local shopping centre. It was bought at 13.20 and paid for until 14.40. Conveniently you'll notice this is lunch time. I know they need to drive the car around to try and hear the knocking sound, but why do they need to park in the local shopping centre for an hour? I know the car needs to be 'test drived' but this does not include parking in town, and if they were parked there for an hour, and I was called no more than 10 minutes after the parking was up how were they actually doing work on my car?

Anyway, collected the car and drove the 2 hours back to college. 40 minutes into my drive, the knocking sound is back and I am pissed off. I get the feeling that as the car is under guarantee no work is being done on it as they aren't getting money and are stringing me along until the guarantee is up. I am an AA member and plan to ring them tomorrow to see if they can take a look and give me a report and will also ring the garage in the morning to speak with my original salesperson, but I'm just wondering if anyone has any advice or has ever been in a similar situation?

The garage is also SIMI registered, if that makes a difference.

Drummerboy08

Thats bad form alright. See what the AA say first. If they say there IS something wrong with the wheel, go back and tear the hole out of the service manager. Deal only with the service manager. Get the salesman who dealt with you in on this too.

If at all posible, get something in writing saying you reported this problem while the car was still in warranty. Keep at the garage until you are satified the problem has been fixed. The only way to deal with people like this is too hound them night and day. I know you might not have the time to do that with college and all, but it really is. I would also report these to both the SIMI and Ford Ireland, by letter as they seem to take these more seriously. Threaten legal action too, as thi is part of a legal contract between you and the dealer.

junkyard

I'm amazed your getting 6 months warranty with a car that old tbh and even if you are I'd say they'll only give you engine and gearbox warranty.

ergonomics

Drummerboy08 wrote: »

Threaten legal action too, as thi is part of a legal contract between you and the dealer.

Aye, I've been advised by my parents to ring the salesperson tomorrow to 'nicely' complain and mention that if things don't get sorted I'll take it further, but not tell him what I will do. They also said to ring AA and see if they can give me a report and to then drop the car back to the garage (missing another day of college) and ask them to repair it again, not mentioning the report. When they come back and explain how they could/couldn't fix it I can then produce a report from the AA and say 'well it's funny that you again say there is nothing wrong as I have a report here from the AA which says...'

ergonomics

junkyard wrote: »

I'm amazed your getting 6 months warranty with a car that old tbh and even if you are I'd say they'll only give you engine and gearbox warranty.

It's a full warranty. That's not really my problem though. My problem is them saying they've fixed it and haven't, or saying there's nothing wrong but the problem reappearing half an hour later, or them using the car to nip into town to get their lunch.

Drummerboy08

Sounds like you have your head screwed on better than the boyos in that garage anyhow....

The AA will give you the report as part of your cover, and your right to phone the salesman. Jusst gently remind him of the warranty......:P

ninty9er

Sounds like it's just a sticky button, happens as cars age, can be fixed and re-appear anytime, even instantly, the knocking however...*shrugs*

Berty

They have obviously done nothing with your car. I have had this happen with my own car. My car is fitted with a tracking device. They dropped me off at work in my own car and headed back to the garage to fix it...........or did they?

Tracking system was checked later that day after they said it was ready, oh no it wasnt actually, or wait it is. The car was parked outside a house the other side of town all day with no garage facilities. They said the car had a full service but they didnt replace the wipers(looked ok), brake pads(still more miles on them) or the washer fluid(it was full).

Myself and the MD visited the dealership unanounced and presented the paperwork. Redfaced and not wishing to have the papers and the manufacturers head office involved they offered all our our fleet one FULL free service each.

All my boss said after this was "Strike one and you dont get a two or three, one more attempt like this and I will shut you down". My MD is the head of the local chamber of commerce. Im sure if he wanted to he could make the guys life a living hell.

junkyard

The knocking is more than likely suspension bushings, I'd say you should be plugging that garage if they're giving that kind of warranty or else you paid 3k euros for a 1k euro car, if you did screw the b**tards!! Everybody hates car dealers anyway around here, making money out of selling cars.........how dare they.:D

eringobragh

quirke_folder wrote: »

They have obviously done nothing with your car. I have had this happen with my own car. My car is fitted with a tracking device. They dropped me off at work in my own car and headed back to the garage to fix it...........or did they?

Tracking system was checked later that day after they said it was ready, oh no it wasnt actually, or wait it is. The car was parked outside a house the other side of town all day with no garage facilities. They said the car had a full service but they didnt replace the wipers(looked ok), brake pads(still more miles on them) or the washer fluid(it was full).

Myself and the MD visited the dealership unanounced and presented the paperwork. Redfaced and not wishing to have the papers and the manufacturers head office involved they offered all our our fleet one FULL free service each.

All my boss said after this was "Strike one and you dont get a two or three, one more attempt like this and I will shut you down". My MD is the head of the local chamber of commerce. Im sure if he wanted to he could make the guys life a living hell.

Jurassic Park.!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Fair play makes an idea to get the tracker installed\

Captain Slow IRL

The front anti-roll bar bushings are a weak point on that car, along with the wishbone bushings.

Interior light and alarm could be due to a faulty "door ajar" switch.

Rear wiper could be dirty contacts.

None of the jobs are expensive, assuming they are at fault, although the wishbone is the most labour intensive.

Read the warranty you were given again - these items might not be covered and the salesmen/service department are too chicken to tell you or are just fobbing you off.

ergonomics

Captain Slow IRL wrote: »

None of the jobs are expensive, assuming they are at fault, although the wishbone is the most labour intensive.

Read the warranty you were given again - these items might not be covered and the salesmen/service department are too chicken to tell you or are just fobbing you off.

Why would they be too chicken to tell me? When I rang them both times to book the car in I clarified that it was covered under the guarantee and said I would pay if it wasn't. I know I kinda left myself open for them to charge me either way, but it appears they just aren't doing anything at all.

Captain Slow IRL

ergonomics wrote: »

Why would they be too chicken to tell me? When I rang them both times to book the car in I clarified that it was covered under the guarantee and said I would pay if it wasn't. I know I kinda left myself open for them to charge me either way, but it appears they just aren't doing anything at all.

Maybe chicken is the wrong word to use - to tell you your warranty doesn't cover the work you want done. Avoid any unpleasentness.

That's only a theory though, they could be just bare-faced liars.

zilog_jones

Captain Slow IRL wrote: »

The front anti-roll bar bushings are a weak point on that car, along with the wishbone bushings.

If it's a knocking when going over bumps and stuff, I'd say it's one or both of those too.

Interior light and alarm could be due to a faulty "door ajar" switch.

The passenger door switch on mine gets sticky - try tapping them (they are small black plastic buttons inbetween the door hinges)

Rear wiper could be dirty contacts.

+1. There's 4 copper contacts to the right of the lock and corresponding pins on the boot door. Try cleaning them with alcohol or maybe WD40. They frequently need cleaning on mine (once or twice a year) otherwise the wiper would work intermittently.

Captain Slow IRL

zilog_jones wrote: »

+1. There's 4 copper contacts to the right of the lock and corresponding pins on the boot door. Try cleaning them with alcohol or maybe WD40. They frequently need cleaning on mine (once or twice a year) otherwise the wiper would work intermittently.

Use emery/sand paper on the contacts & pins at the bottom of the tailgate.
If you douse the hinge pins with wd40 (or some sort of penetrating spray) and give them a tap with a hammer and punch, tapping them from the left and then right a couple of times, this is usually pretty effective.

ergonomics

Just an update.

Looked on the AA website and a vehicle inspection costs about €300, and even with my 10% membership discount I can't afford that.

Rang the garage and spoke with the original sales person. He admitted that they do sometimes use the customer's cars to get lunch but it was only a few hundred yards down the road so it's not like they were using loads of my petrol. I pointed out that he had told me that all the staff get petrol vouchers so they shouldn't be using my petrol for personal errands even if it just down the road. He also told me that I have his word that if the problem isn't fixed by the end of my guarantee it will continue to be looked at for free as I notified them of the problem when the guarantee was valid.

I'm still not impressed about the parking in town and although I'm happy they have promised to continue looking at the problem for free even after the guarantee is up, I still don't trust them 100%. I'm thinking of going to a reputable garage, maybe another Ford garage or Advanced Pitstop here in Limerick and see if they can identify a problem easily, at which point I will bring it back to my dealer and tell them what the other garage said.

BeardyGit

ergonomics wrote: »

Just an update.

Looked on the AA website and a vehicle inspection costs about €300, and even with my 10% membership discount I can't afford that.

Rang the garage and spoke with the original sales person. He admitted that they do sometimes use the customer's cars to get lunch but it was only a few hundred yards down the road so it's not like they were using loads of my petrol. I pointed out that he had told me that all the staff get petrol vouchers so they shouldn't be using my petrol for personal errands even if it just down the road. He also told me that I have his word that if the problem isn't fixed by the end of my guarantee it will continue to be looked at for free as I notified them of the problem when the guarantee was valid.

I'm still not impressed about the parking in town and although I'm happy they have promised to continue looking at the problem for free even after the guarantee is up, I still don't trust them 100%. I'm thinking of going to a reputable garage, maybe another Ford garage or Advanced Pitstop here in Limerick and see if they can identify a problem easily, at which point I will bring it back to my dealer and tell them what the other garage said.

Bring it to Advance and you can bet your arse they'll find a problem with it....Most likely nothing at all to do with what you believe to be wrong with your car. Don't waste your time with Advance. And I'd be hesitant to go anywhere near another Ford garage either - They don't have to honour the warranty (and won't), so you'll only end up shelling out.

Bring the car back and tell them you want a replacement until yours is properly repaired.

ergonomics

I don't plan on paying for repairs in Advance or another Ford dealer, I just want a diagnosis of the problem. I'll pay them for diagnosing it but if problems arose then I would bring it back to the garage where I have a guarantee and say 'You say there's nothing wrong with my car but it took garage X 1 hour to say this was wrong with it, and I want that repaired'.

Basically I want to go to another garage to see if they can find anything, and how long it takes. If they find a problem relatively easy then it will give me a bit of proof that my garage isn't doing anything. And by going to a chain or another Ford dealer they won't be able to turn around and say the garage isn't reputable.

Tigger

if you can proive they used yer car to go shopping (cctv etc then id threaten legal action)

and mean it

Mr.David

the knocking could be a bushing as mentioned, but it could also be a wheel bearing, again common enough on that age fiesta

Darragh29

ergonomics wrote: »

Just looking for a bit of advice.

I bought a 2nd hand 1999 Fiesta from a Ford dealer in July. I was given a 6 month warranty with the car. They have dealt with it since it first came into the country as it was their showroom car so I was quite happy to deal with them when I had problems.

In September I dropped it in as I was having a problem with the electrics. Sometimes when I opened the door the interior light wouldn't come on, nor would the alarm if I left my lights on and sometimes the back wiper wouldn't come on. I figured they were all related. Took a day off college to drop it in as the garage is not in the place place as college and was called at lunchtime to tell me everything was done. Couple of days later, same problems start happening. It was only minor so I ignored it.

Today I dropped it in again as I was getting a knocking sound from my front driver side wheel. Had to take another day of college very close to my exams but I was really worried about the wheel. Dropped it in at 9 and got a called at 2.45 to tell me my car was ready but they couldn't find anything wrong with the wheel, and couldn't hear any noise but they had tightened everything up anyway. I asked if I could bring it back if the noise came back and they said that was fine, so I collected my car an hour later.

First thing I noticed when I got in the car was a pay and display parking ticket from the local shopping centre. It was bought at 13.20 and paid for until 14.40. Conveniently you'll notice this is lunch time. I know they need to drive the car around to try and hear the knocking sound, but why do they need to park in the local shopping centre for an hour? I know the car needs to be 'test drived' but this does not include parking in town, and if they were parked there for an hour, and I was called no more than 10 minutes after the parking was up how were they actually doing work on my car?

Anyway, collected the car and drove the 2 hours back to college. 40 minutes into my drive, the knocking sound is back and I am pissed off. I get the feeling that as the car is under guarantee no work is being done on it as they aren't getting money and are stringing me along until the guarantee is up. I am an AA member and plan to ring them tomorrow to see if they can take a look and give me a report and will also ring the garage in the morning to speak with my original salesperson, but I'm just wondering if anyone has any advice or has ever been in a similar situation?

The garage is also SIMI registered, if that makes a difference.

The AA charge a MINIMUM of 292 Euro for a specific report on a problem, so factor that in before you go down that road.

They obviously took your car on a test drive for lunch, I wouldn't lose sleep over that. They had to drive it somewhere to test drive it, for lunch is as good as anywhere...

It sounds like it could be one of the following:

CV joint at end of life

Lower ball joint worn

Steering track rod end worn

Loose brake caliper/pad

Shock absorber worn

Wishbone bushings worn

Worn wheel bearing or wheel hub

Damaged inner/outer wheel wall

Anti-roll bar bushings worn

It can only be one of the above I think, it can't be anything too serious. Does this noise become more apparent when you are turning or do you only hear it if you drive over a bump or when exactly do you hear it???

Is it a noise with a regular sound to it, like if it is a knocking noise, if you speed up, does the knocking speed up also???

Quazzie

You are forgetting that it took you 40 minutes into the drive back to college to hear the noise again. Are the mechanics supposed to go for an hours drive so they can hear it. I can just imagine your complaint if you were handed a bill for an hours extra labour because the mechanic had to test drive it.

Personally I think you are being unreasonable and unless you can prove there is actually a problem well then how are they supposed to fix it. Its very hard to fix a noise that only you hear sporadically. As is the electrical problem. If it doesn't happen for them its unreasonable to expect miracles.

I'd understand your argument if they said they found a problem and fixed it but since they said they can't find it then its a bit harsh.

As for the parking ticket. Maybe the mechanic brought your car with him to get lunch to give him one last opportunity to hear the mystery noise. Its easy to assume it was laziness and wrong doing on the garage's side but try look at it from their eyes, they can't fix what they can't see/hear!!

Darragh29

Tigger wrote: »

if you can proive they used yer car to go shopping (cctv etc then id threaten legal action)

and mean it

Would you relax, what is the problem with merging two tasks??? :rolleyes:

ergonomics

Quazzie2002 wrote: »

You are forgetting that it took you 40 minutes into the drive back to college to hear the noise again. Are the mechanics supposed to go for an hours drive so they can hear it. I can just imagine your complaint if you were handed a bill for an hours extra labour because the mechanic had to test drive it.

Personally I think you are being unreasonable and unless you can prove there is actually a problem well then how are they supposed to fix it. Its very hard to fix a noise that only you hear sporadically. As is the electrical problem. If it doesn't happen for them its unreasonable to expect miracles.

Yes, it did take 40 minutes for the noise to come back but since then it's been there constantly. I drove to the shop and back earlier, 5 minutes there and back, and the noise was there the whole time. When I rang the garage they told me that they drove the car on twisty and bumpy roads for a good while but heard nothing and then brought it out later and still heard nothing, despite the fact that I heard it on the way to the garage and later on when I drove it home. It's a sporadic problem, but it's there more often than not and I find it hard to believe that I am hearing it constantly but it didn't happen once when the garage had it.

I told the sales person earlier that if the mechanic had to drive to Dublin and back I wouldn't care less once the car was fixed. My car needs to be driven to be fixed, that's not my issue.

I'd understand your argument if they said they found a problem and fixed it but since they said they can't find it then its a bit harsh.

My issue is that I brought it in on two different occasions for two different problems, losing a day of college in the process, and both times the problem was not fixed. The first time they told me everything was working fine and had been repaired, but almost immediately the problem came back.

They're a garage, they repair cars for a living, and I'm just worried that they twice have been unable to repair my car. I wonder how well they're doing their job.

I don't expect miracles, I expect them to do their job which I don't feel they're doing.

Tigger

Darragh29 wrote: »

Would you relax, what is the problem with merging two tasks??? :rolleyes:

are you serious

if some one took my car to the shops when it was left in to garage to be fixed i would have them in court soo quickly

would whoever did that say it to the customer "to check yer car i'll have to drive it so ill just useit for me lunch break"

Quazzie

If I was you I would bring it back in to them. Get the workshop manager/head mechanic to come for a drive with you and explain exactly what it is that you are hearing. Make sure he is hearing the same thing. Ensure he understands what you are finding to be the problem. When you get back to the garage, assuming the manager/mechanic has heard the noise too, then tell the salesman that you have explained the problem to him, and he recognises it, and you want this fixed under warranty or you will be returning the car for a full refund.

Another tip would be to say that since this was recognized within the warranty time frame and was in twice without being rectified that you now demand that if this is fixed under warranty even if the actual fixing comes after the warranty end date.

I worked for a few years in a garage and I see it from the mechanics point of view. There is nothing more annoying and frustrating than a customer returning and hearing a "strange" noise, that isn't always there. The only thing thats worse is a water leak that isn't always there. Its near impossible to hear the same thing as something else unless pointed as I described above.

I realise my first post probably wasn't much help so I hope this advice is more helpful.

pred racer

Quazzie2002 wrote: »

You are forgetting that it took you 40 minutes into the drive back to college to hear the noise again. Are the mechanics supposed to go for an hours drive so they can hear it. I can just imagine your complaint if you were handed a bill for an hours extra labour because the mechanic had to test drive it.

Personally I think you are being unreasonable and unless you can prove there is actually a problem well then how are they supposed to fix it. Its very hard to fix a noise that only you hear sporadically. As is the electrical problem. If it doesn't happen for them its unreasonable to expect miracles.

I'd understand your argument if they said they found a problem and fixed it but since they said they can't find it then its a bit harsh.

As for the parking ticket. Maybe the mechanic brought your car with him to get lunch to give him one last opportunity to hear the mystery noise. Its easy to assume it was laziness and wrong doing on the garage's side but try look at it from their eyes, they can't fix what they can't see/hear!!

^^

killwill

ninty9er wrote: »

Sounds like it's just a sticky button, happens as cars age, can be fixed and re-appear anytime, even instantly, the knocking however...*shrugs*

I would be 99% sure that the knocking is a cv joint

Darragh29

killwill wrote: »

I would be 99% sure that the knocking is a cv joint

Well I asked the OP to describe the noise in more detail. If it is a CV joint at early stage wear, it should be obvious only when turning corners first...

ergonomics

Darragh29 wrote: »

Well I asked the OP to describe the noise in more detail. If it is a CV joint at early stage wear, it should be obvious only when turning corners first...

Yep, it happens mainly when turning, particularly left. It sometimes happens on a straight but rarely. The noise seems to be in time with whatever speed I'm doing, i.e. one 'knock' per revolution of the tyre. It mainly happens at 40km/h.

I asked the garage to check the CV joints and was told they were fine.

I asked them to check the wheel bearings. They're fine too apparently.

I asked them to check if one of the brake pads had slipped. They're also ok.

L-M

If you think about it, they're obviously not trying to pawn you off. It's costing them money to have a mechanic look at your car, when he could be working on another car, bringing money in. It's very hard to diagnose a noise.

A warratny like that would more than likely be engine and gearbox. Which wouldn't cove CV joints.

What i would do is go back, bring the mechanic for a spin, and show him the noise exactly. Then they can't say anything, unless your hearing things lol. I think you're getting too worked up on it.