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Scrap the television licence

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    #62
    ChocolateSauce
    Registered Users Posts: 2,892 ✭✭✭ChocolateSauce


    CDfm wrote: »
    I picked on one area where I think a public broadcaster could make a real difference- in a country with literacy problems -the definition of a public broadcaster is far different to whats being delivered in return for the licencing fee.

    That would be a great idea to bring the like of Paddy Power or Ben Dunne or Michael o'Leary into it because at least at the end of the day you would have a clear model of what a public broadcaster would be.

    You sound like a smart fella - you named a blast of dross - well make a swu7ggestion.

    So make people who own TV's pay to make other people better able to read? Wouldn't it be more appropriate for every tax payer to contribute to such a noble cause?


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    #63
    Permabear
    Closed Accounts Posts: 39,022 ✭✭✭✭Permabear


    This post has been deleted.


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    #64
    Mr.Micro
    Registered Users Posts: 5,336 ✭✭✭Mr.Micro


    I guess, no licence fee would mean no Lyric, RNaG or TG4. Can't say i have ever watched or listened to any of these, but they are important stations/channels to keep.


    They would be no loss as far as I am concerned. Too much dross all vying for a share of the same budget only weakens the quality. Just get rid of tubby Ryan, Pat the plank, most of the news old handbags and save a fortune. The Late late toy show tonight,insufferable,dated, wooden and patronisingly commercial for a handful of retailers all hosted by Mr Wooden himself. Ugh!


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    #65
    Permabear
    Closed Accounts Posts: 39,022 ✭✭✭✭Permabear


    This post has been deleted.


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    #66
    CDfm
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,649 ✭✭✭✭CDfm


    donegalfella wrote: »
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    I see your taste in music goes beyond classical.

    I am into 60s and 70s rock but I dont have a specialist station catering for my needs. Im sure fans of the 50 and 60s showbands would love a radio station of their own too. I betcha they would get decent listnership numbers.

    If you take that logic why not?


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    #67
    nesf
    Registered Users Posts: 27,645 ✭✭✭✭nesf


    Guys, the thread is about scrapping the television licence not whether you ill-educated plebs with no concept of high culture think that Lyric has a place or not. Back on topic please. ;)


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    #68
    Permabear
    Closed Accounts Posts: 39,022 ✭✭✭✭Permabear


    This post has been deleted.


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    #69
    Permabear
    Closed Accounts Posts: 39,022 ✭✭✭✭Permabear


    This post has been deleted.


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    #70
    djpbarry
    Registered Users Posts: 13,104 ✭✭✭✭djpbarry


    Thought these figures might be of interest:

    Attribution of license revenue received by RTE in 2007:

    RTE One | 42.6%
    RTE Two | 22.3%
    RTE Radio 1 | 10.4%
    RTE Lyric FM | 4.0%
    RTE RnaG | 7.1%
    Support provided to TG4 | 5.9%
    Performing Groups | 7.7%

    Source: http://www.rte.ie/about/ar2007/english/financial_rev.html


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    #71
    CDfm
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,649 ✭✭✭✭CDfm


    what this tells me is that despite this revenue these stations would not exist?

    but do RTE2 and RTE 1 really run at a loss or is it just because of crazy overheads?

    Does TV3 Make a profit?

    I cant see why you need RTE2 as part of a public broadcasting remit - just designate one as the public broadcater and sell of the other as the entertainer.

    cant see why you need both lyric and rte 1 radio -duplication and cross over


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    #72
    Permabear
    Closed Accounts Posts: 39,022 ✭✭✭✭Permabear


    This post has been deleted.


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    #73
    nesf
    Registered Users Posts: 27,645 ✭✭✭✭nesf


    donegalfella wrote: »
    This post has been deleted.

    The original question was whether the Government should scrap the TV licence and instead fund it out of tax. i.e. a move from a regressive to a progressive tax system not whether no funding should be given to RTE et al.


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    #74
    Permabear
    Closed Accounts Posts: 39,022 ✭✭✭✭Permabear


    This post has been deleted.


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    #75
    CDfm
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,649 ✭✭✭✭CDfm


    donegalfella wrote: »
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    The term regressive is often used in respect of fixed taxes which a licence fee is.

    Nesf may want to add something more detailed but that about sums it up.


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    #76
    Permabear
    Closed Accounts Posts: 39,022 ✭✭✭✭Permabear


    This post has been deleted.


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    #77
    CDfm
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,649 ✭✭✭✭CDfm


    donegalfella wrote: »
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    A bit pedantic- but regressive is often applied to fixed taxes as the burden of taxes is disproportionate to usage of a commodity or the income of the individual.

    It would be concidered regressive as its neither consumption or income related.So in the modern usage it would be concidered regressive.

    Viewing patterns - I would like to see some stats out of interest - but its unlikely that they watch RTE. I would agree that the unwaged children ,retired, women and the retired are likely to watch more TV as they have the opportunity to. Therefore, as its the waged who pay the tax - on that basis alone its regressive.

    The other item is that if other media have to survive om advertising/commercial income generation its an imperfect market if RTE are subsidised when operating on a like for like basis.

    Like it or not The Late Late benefited from a subsidy when Dunphy was on TV3 on the basis that it could operate outside commercial criteria and put the competition out of business. THe same way that Bus Eireann can use market dominance to stop competitors competing on routes.


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    #78
    Permabear
    Closed Accounts Posts: 39,022 ✭✭✭✭Permabear


    This post has been deleted.


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    #79
    CDfm
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,649 ✭✭✭✭CDfm


    donegalfella wrote: »
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    People on Household Benifits Packages (social Welfare) and people over 75 get free TV licences. So this covers a lot of the lower income individuals.

    To validate your argument you will have to provide some evidence that they watch more TV but specifically that they watch RTE.So can you back this up.

    People who dont watch RTE TV but have a TV have to pay a licence fee. So its not consumption related.

    You suggest that every hour spent watching The Late Late, Fair City or listening to Gerry Ryan or Joe Duffy is a benefit:confused:


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    #80
    Permabear
    Closed Accounts Posts: 39,022 ✭✭✭✭Permabear


    This post has been deleted.


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    #81
    CDfm
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,649 ✭✭✭✭CDfm


    donegalfella wrote: »
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    This argument is circular.

    I dont use RTE services so feel the licence fee should be scrapped - I dont see our National Broadcaster as providing any usefull service that cannot be provided commercially.

    You have a different view - why and why all this money to fund minority viewing for a few.


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    #82
    Permabear
    Closed Accounts Posts: 39,022 ✭✭✭✭Permabear


    This post has been deleted.


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    #83
    CDfm
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,649 ✭✭✭✭CDfm


    donegalfella wrote: »
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    Public Service Broadcasting is not Commercial broadcasting.

    Its mandate needs to be updating and its commercial stations/operations hived off and sold off.

    That its standards have dropped - Joe Duffy is the lattes to swear on air without punishment http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055431094


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    #84
    Permabear
    Closed Accounts Posts: 39,022 ✭✭✭✭Permabear


    This post has been deleted.


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    #85
    CDfm
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,649 ✭✭✭✭CDfm


    Donegalfella -you sound like a great guy but as a commercial state company it was established to provide a service that could not be provided by the private sector.

    Devalera was Taoiseach.

    That era is over. There are just a few areas where public subsidies may have been justifiable but they are long gone.

    RTE is not commited to public broadcasting.Why keep up the pretence that it is?


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    #86
    Permabear
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    This post has been deleted.


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    #87
    nesf
    Registered Users Posts: 27,645 ✭✭✭✭nesf


    donegalfella wrote: »
    This post has been deleted.

    Simply put, a TV licence can be called regressive simply because it imposes a greater burden on the poor than the wealthy. I accept your point on the benefits of TV for the poor, it is a very cheap form of entertainment but I don't think that it cancels out the regressive nature of the fixed form of the TV licence. Replacing the funding with a separate percentage levy would be far more preferable in my view. I do think the poor should pay something towards TV but I don't think it should be the same nominal amount as the wealthy, even if the poor make far more use out of the medium.


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    #88
    nesf
    Registered Users Posts: 27,645 ✭✭✭✭nesf


    CDfm wrote: »
    That its standards have dropped - Joe Duffy is the lattes to swear on air without punishment http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055431094

    Twat is swearing now? Really, sometimes I think half this country is still living in conservative 60's Ireland.


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    #89
    CDfm
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,649 ✭✭✭✭CDfm


    nesf wrote: »
    Twat is swearing now? Really, sometimes I think half this country is still living in conservative 60's Ireland.

    in this context pot and kettle is appropriate but in Joe Duffys case I would use a more contemperary word.:rolleyes:


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    #90
    nesf
    Registered Users Posts: 27,645 ✭✭✭✭nesf


    CDfm wrote: »
    in this context pot and kettle is appropriate but in Joe Duffys case I would use a more contemperary word.:rolleyes:

    Don't get me wrong, I detest the show and would love to see it taken off the airwaves, but I don't really have a problem with someone using the word twat on radio to be honest.


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    #91
    Permabear
    Closed Accounts Posts: 39,022 ✭✭✭✭Permabear


    This post has been deleted.


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