[Article]3 preferred over eircom for broadband plan

Magnet: Rory

i think..i think the next step is LTE but its hard to find who out of the 4 mobile companies is gonna take it first.

drunkmonkey

Rorser wrote: »

i think..i think the next step is LTE but its hard to find who out of the 4 mobile companies is gonna take it first.

Is that not some way on the lines of what 3 have got off Nokia Siemens, LTE Compatiable Base stations....

Magnet: Rory

compatible doesn't necessarily mean that that's what they are beaming out...do you work directly for 3?

Its ok if you do, I work for Magnet but i wont post on their behalf.

Sponge Bob

There is no spectrum for LTE until 2014 because it is used until then for MMDS telly .....like I told ye .

drunkmonkey

Rorser wrote: »

compatible doesn't necessarily mean that that's what they are beaming out...do you work directly for 3?

Its ok if you do, I work for Magnet but i wont post on their behalf.

No I don't work for 3, nor do I post on their behalf, i'm just a fan, was a fan of leap bb back in the day 2:)

I do know there uprading their network to the Nokia kit, and the Nokia roadmap is giving LTE for second half of 2009 via software upgrade and heading for 1Gbps after that....

source..

http://www.nokiasiemensnetworks.com/global/Press/Press+releases/news-archive/Nokia+Siemens+Networks+ships+LTE+base+station+hardware.htm

Sponge Bob

LTE requires New Large Blocks of Different Spectrum . This is not available here until 2014 .

They could also deploy Wimax ....again were the Spectrum available ...which it is not .

http://www.ieee-lanman.org/presentations_2008/matei.pdf

drunkmonkey

Sponge Bob wrote: »

LTE requires New Large Blocks of Different Spectrum . This is not available here until 2014 .

They could also deploy Wimax ....again were the Spectrum available ...which it is not .

http://www.ieee-lanman.org/presentations_2008/matei.pdf

So we could in up in a situation where 3 has a 100% LTE compatiable network mid 2009 but can't switch it on untill someone hits the kill switch on MMDS in 2014.....

Sponge Bob

drunkmonkey wrote: »

So we could in up in a situation where 3 has a 100% LTE compatiable network mid 2009

No we won't .

It will take Nokia nearly 3 more years to swap out the horrible sh1theap of a network that 3 has now . They have until 2011 to finish the job .

The 3 PR Bunnies Trilled delightedly when they said last month that

"Under a three-year contract, Nokia Siemens Networks has already started to replace 3’s legacy radio network with it’s energy-efficient 3G connectivity solution, bringing 3 both environmental and operational benefits.

The advanced solution, featuring the market-leading Flexi Base Stations, provides significant power savings of up to 70 percent. "

But 3 were more interested in savings on electricity consumption than in LTE when they announced that . In fact the bunnies never mentioned LTE at all .

All they promised is HSPA by the end of the 3 year upgrade contract .

watty

Rorser wrote: »

8 meg fixed wireless...thats pretty good, how the devil are they doing that? Ping speed any good?

Digiweb Metro (fixed Wireless) West of Limerick

To Galway (Airwire):


To Dublin (westnet):


To Limerick (Fast Wireless):

C:\watty>ping www.heanet.ie

Pinging samhain.heanet.ie [193.1.219.57] with 32 bytes of data:

Reply from 193.1.219.57: bytes=32 time=17ms TTL=60
Reply from 193.1.219.57: bytes=32 time=19ms TTL=60
Reply from 193.1.219.57: bytes=32 time=21ms TTL=60
Reply from 193.1.219.57: bytes=32 time=18ms TTL=60

Ping statistics for 193.1.219.57:
    Packets: Sent = 4, Received = 4, Lost = 0 (0% loss),
Approximate round trip times in milli-seconds:
    Minimum = 17ms, Maximum = 21ms, Average = 18ms

Digiweb's office speed tester in Dublin from Limerick:

Last Result:
Download Speed: 7559 kbps (944.9 KB/sec transfer rate)
Upload Speed: 2126 kbps (265.8 KB/sec transfer rate)
Latency: 53 ms

After about 6 to 10Mbps you tend to max out the speed testers.

heanet is the best indication of basic latency to INEX.

21:20 Friday night is peakish time. I'd get more early or late.

drunkmonkey

If Digiweb say on their site phone line required does that mean i'll still have to suffer this at peak times:( Like now....

drunkmonkey

Sponge Bob wrote: »

.

All they promised is HSPA by the end of the 3 year upgrade contract .

But they can't say LTE because they can't deliver it until 2014 because of the MMDS thing...?

watty

I've been saving line rental (now nearly 27 Euro) and 100 Euro per month in dialup costs for the 3 years since I got Digweb Metro. No phone line. It actually PROVIDES two lines via a built in VOIP. I have 2 x dual DECT cordless and a Multifunction fax on it.

I transferred my eircom number as one of the numbers. Real Phone line is only needed for Digiweb DSL service.

Anyway this is very off topic.

Sorry Mods.

watty

drunkmonkey wrote: »

But they can't say LTE because they can't deliver it until 2014 because of the MMDS thing...?

They can't offer LTE. No-one in Ireland can, not till at least 2014. There are no actual firm plans at all yet for LTE in Ireland. Each technology is only produced on specific bands. It's too expensive to make the gear for a new band smaller than USA. The handsets / Modems etc are harder to reband than Bases.

Remember when a phone only worked in one region? Even a QUAD band phone or HSDPA modem or WiMax modem won't work on a new band, such as say 1500MHz.

drunkmonkey

Does anyone use MMDS any more? It's just for picking up the bbc's etc, no?
Why wait until 2014? LTE would be more of a priority.....maybe start a scrap MMDS petition:rolleyes: There's something constructive we could do...

DingDong

drunkmonkey wrote: »

Does anyone use MMDS any more? It's just for picking up the bbc's etc, no?
Why wait until 2014? LTE would be more of a priority.....maybe start a scrap MMDS petition:rolleyes: There's something constructive we could do...

96,300 customer at last official count use UPC's MMDS. Chances of UPC giving up their Licence early is nil. Its mainly a digital TV service(their currently trialing a broadband option for MMDS to cables systems customers) but I think Chorus still has some analogue MMDS customers.

Walkman

Sponge Bob wrote: »

No we won't .

It will take Nokia nearly 3 more years to swap out the horrible sh1theap of a network that 3 has now . They have until 2011 to finish the job .

The 3 PR Bunnies Trilled delightedly when they said last month that

"Under a three-year contract, Nokia Siemens Networks has already started to replace 3s legacy radio network with its energy-efficient 3G connectivity solution, bringing 3 both environmental and operational benefits.

The advanced solution, featuring the market-leading Flexi Base Stations, provides significant power savings of up to 70 percent. "

But 3 were more interested in savings on electricity consumption than in LTE when they announced that . In fact the bunnies never mentioned LTE at all .

All they promised is HSPA by the end of the 3 year upgrade contract .

Of the 787 live sites 3 currently have just over 250 have been swapped out in the last 12 weeks so I would imagine it will not take anywhere near 3 years to complete the swapout.

watty

DingDong wrote: »

96,300 customer at last official count use UPC's MMDS. Chances of UPC giving up their Licence early is nil. Its mainly a digital TV service(their currently trialing a broadband option for MMDS to cables systems customers) but I think Chorus still has some analogue MMDS customers.

Chorus + NTL = UPC MMDS. About 100 Digital channels or 66 digital and 11 analog approx depending on area. Remaining analogue areas migrating to all digital. Over 180,000 customers. The Main MMDS Broadband was a Trial in Finglas with Digiweb.

DingDong

watty wrote: »

Chorus + NTL = UPC MMDS. About 100 Digital channels or 66 digital and 11 analog approx depending on area. Remaining analogue areas migrating to all digital. Over 180,000 customers. The Main MMDS Broadband was a Trial in Finglas with Digiweb.

I got my numbers from Liberty Global second quarters stock report so it was a bit dated. Just had a look at the third quarter states 91,000 MMDS customers.
link
There's also another project besides the UPC/digiweb trial to bring BB to some of the MMDS to cable area's.

godskitchen

I have a problem it seems.......

Am I the only one who sees how futile the "I am a three fan" / "I hate Three, they eat children" is?

Regardless of your point of view, or how much you argue Three can deliver or can not.

The simple fact is this any HSDPA service does not meet the spec of the original call.....

Quoting once again

The DCENR says :
"The final product that consumers will receive from the NBS will be an always on service of at least 1Mbit/s down and 128kbits/s up. The minimum download capacity per connection will be 10 gigabits per month and the service must support Virtual Private Networks (VPN) for businesses and VoIP applications and devices for home business purposes. Latency must be sufficient in order to allow standard applications such as VoIP and online gaming to be run"

Stop pissing in the wind with this back and forth. Three can not meet the above. End of.

If I were to tender for a job and not meet one of the requirements, I know what would happen.

drunkmonkey

godskitchen wrote: »

The DCENR says :
"The final product that consumers will receive from the NBS will be an always on service of at least 1Mbit/s down and 128kbits/s up

By the time the 6 year contract is up, LTE should be available going by the road map which should satisfy the brief.
Will the bandwidth be available to mobile operators in 2014 or will they need to bid for licences?

PogMoThoin

drunkmonkey wrote: »

By the time the 6 year contract is up, LTE should be available going by the road map which should satisfy the brief.
Will the bandwidth be available to mobile operators in 2014 or will they need to bid for licences?

My guess is that you're just trolling here

Sponge Bob

Walkman wrote: »

Of the 787 live sites 3 currently have just over 250 have been swapped out in the last 12 weeks so I would imagine it will not take anywhere near 3 years to complete the swapout.

When are they going to swap out their babbling script monkeys and put customer service in its place ????

Cabaal

drunkmonkey, I am aware of your very much pro-Three posting on consumer issues and mobiles in the past,

While people are welcome to post positive comments about Three your tend to verge on the edge of beating a dead horse and historical and factual evidence goes against the VAST majority of Three's services that are offered in Ireland (but from a technical stand point of HSDPA being unsuitable as a Broadband service and customer service stand point that Three offer).

Anyway I want this thread kept on topic and I donm't want to see any trolling!

foggy_lad

drunkmonkey wrote: »

By the time the 6 year contract is up, LTE should be available going by the road map which should satisfy the brief.
Will the bandwidth be available to mobile operators in 2014 or will they need to bid for licences?

so it will be possible to use LTE in six years but how long will it take three to roll this out around the country and provide a proper service?

after all they only have failures under their belt after a number of years in business. they rolled out their phone network before time then rolled out their internet service while not allowing people browse the internet then rolled out their broadband service without having the bandwidth/ability to cater for the number of subscriptions they allowed.

it appears to me they are interested in taking your cash first and foremost then only giving any service after months of calls to a dirt cheap customer care service(more profits for them) as they have told anyone that asks that they do not and can not give refunds for any reason!


eircon may not be people's favourite but they are already well established and know what they are doing as regards broadband, and going by our local three store closing early on a friday evening i would have to ask are three going to be around in six years?

PogMoThoin

OK, enough shít, 3 cant possibly deliver on this, but the deals not signed yet till next month. How can we kick up enough of a fuss to get this stopped? Lobby the media? Maybe we should lobby the opposition instead of the Govt? Have we anyone in a position of power that could be made aware of this that understands how bad a decision it is? What is the best approach to getting this stopped?

Nick_oliveri

PogMoThoin wrote: »

OK, enough shít, 3 cant possibly deliver on this, but the deals not signed yet till next month. How can we kick up enough of a fuss to get this stopped? Lobby the media? Maybe we should lobby the opposition instead of the Govt? Have we anyone in a position of power that could be made aware of this that understands how bad a decision it is? What is the best approach to getting this stopped?

Ha, you are joking right? If it were the case that anyone could stop this farce then i would be incredibly surprised and i would eat my own face. They dont give a fcuk. If they are ignorant enough about broadband to offer the contract to three...well i think that speaks for itself.

Bulmers

the other issue here is with backhaul, currently all operators used TDM microwave to backhaul, microwave will be used for these sites due to their isolated location (couldn't get fiber in) so they'll have to used ethernet radios which are still only new and not deployed but this would give them the capacity..backhaul is the main problem and not really ever mentioned, elephant in the room syndrome so until they get that sorted, this wont work.

The Nokia equipment is LTE capable but because there is no real backhaul solution for this as yet, i would say 2 yrs off..

Marlow

Bulmers wrote: »

the other issue here is with backhaul

Backhaul in the case of 3 is not a big problem, because they don't need huge amounts. Every is cell is not capable of more than 7.2 mbit, even if the site covered 3-4 cells, it would be less than 40 mbit/s, which can be solved with point-to-point licensed links on distances over 60km easy.

The question would be, if 3 would invest in that kind of infrastructure though and honestly, it's unlikely given their track record.

/M

Bulmers

Marlow wrote: »

Backhaul in the case of 3 is not a big problem, because they don't need huge amounts. Every is cell is not capable of more than 7.2 mbit, even if the site covered 3-4 cells, it would be less than 40 mbit/s, which can be solved with point-to-point licensed links on distances over 60km easy.

The question would be, if 3 would invest in that kind of infrastructure though and honestly, it's unlikely given their track record.

/M

well most sites in 3 network have 2-3 E1s, best case scenario is 3 x 2Mbps = 6 but with overhead on the packet, realistically will give 4-5Mbps thruput total on a cell, then max of 20 users odd on a cell, you're quickly out of capacity, this is alot of what 3s current problem is, too many users and not enough backhaul, expensive problem to solve

Walkman

Gents can you keep the tech speak as clear as possible. I for one have no idea what you are on about, but it seems 3 have quite a mountain to climb when it comes to providing a stable broadband service to the country (although I am a big fan of 3, I am not when it comes to their broadband, actually returned it before I was tied into the contract last year). AFAIK the UK launched in stages resulting in much less problems for them. On another note alot of what they will/wont do is pure speculation at this point. Who knows how much they will invest in the network. My personal opinion is the will invest more than any here would imagine because basically the cant afford not to. Its easy, if they fail at this through their own doing then they are bust as the bad press will stop customers joining the network for phones too.