Sub 3 or bust!

Supercell

26 October 2009 - That's the date of the 2009 Dublin city marathon which I'm aiming for.
Its a big ask considering my base level of fitness is pretty low, but motivation is high.

I intend initially on starting off using the Novice Supreme Training programme as the initial weeks look pretty much about my current level.
As fitness improves i hope to move up the intensity until I'm training using the Advanced - II programme.

Probably as fitness and knowledge improves with time this will be tweaked to suit my needs but its a sensible starting point I think.

Starting stats :-

Weight 177lb - aiming to lower that to around 145 probably (student days weight)
5Km jog - 26 Minutes.
Male, age 37¾

The journey begins tomorrow.

donothoponpop

Welcome to the logs Supercell. I laughed out loud when I saw you had started a log, not out of disrespect, but because you started your log on the same day when you posted questions on the marathon forum about how to go from 26 mins for 5k to sub3 for the marathon in a year! You've got cojones, I'll give you that, so the best of luck in your attempt.

You'll get better advice from more advanced people than me, (and some of the posters here are a great help), but in general, start your base milage/fitness levels slowly, and steadily. "Advanced Marathoning" is a great book, you'll find it invaluable. There's lots of good running clubs in Wicklow, but if you want to just join a group of runners, look into www.imra.ie , they have lots of great mountain races in the Wicklow hills starting again in Jan.

You've set your sub 3 goal, now be focused over the next year, good luck, and go get it!

cfitz

All the best with it.

TheRoadRunner

yeah good luck, be sensible, stay injury free and you are half way there

SUNGOD

hi supercell ive read your thread in the main forum but i didnt post. i actually targetted sub 3 in my first marathon , i never told anyone but in my head i wanted sub 3....now 3 marathons in im still trying
in fairness my first in connemara which is a tough marathon i finished 10th in 3:09 . then 3:06 in cork and 3:00:04 in dublin i still feel sick over those 4 seconds

anyway my point is and i think its been covered quite well in your question thread ...its a good goal to have and is acheiveable but maybe not in your first marathon as its a very steep learning curve

but you could be someone who with some running under your belt does sub 3 in a training run or you could never acheive it, thats the beauty of the dream we dont know if its possible till we try.
anyway best of luck i will be keeping an eye on your progress

Peckham

You've mentioned it already on the other thread, but planning out a series of interim targets would be a good idea. Focus on base training from now until the other side of Christmas, then do a 5mile/10k length race in January to get a true idea of where you stand in terms of speed, and how much work you need to do.

In terms of interim targets you should really be looking to break a 90 minute half marathon by mid/late Spring, and then get a 85 minute half marathon your belt during the summer.

Good to see another sub-3 attemptee here, although I think you're the only one trying it on your first with little race experience.

You've set yourself a monumental task, that's for sure!

MCOS

the mile5:39
3000m(3k)10:56
3200m(about 2 miles)11:42
5000m(5k)18:47
5 miles31:06
10,000m(10k)39:10
ten miles1:04:51
a half marathon1:26:20
a marathon3:00:0

Best of luck on the journey!

Supercell

MCOS wrote: »

the mile5:39
3000m(3k)10:56
3200m(about 2 miles)11:42
5000m(5k)18:47
5 miles31:06
10,000m(10k)39:10
ten miles1:04:51
a half marathon1:26:20
a marathon3:00:0

Best of luck on the journey!

Lovely stuff, targets to equal and then beat, I like it!

Just back from the first days run.
Did the 5km jog this time pushing a bit harder, did it in 24 minutes dead, probably could knock maybe a minute off that if I really tried hard but would probably injure myself in the process , knees felt slightly tender near the end.
Tomorrow is an easy 2.5k so should recover nicely before the next longer run.

Onwards and upwards!

shels4ever

MCOS wrote: »

the mile5:39
3000m(3k)10:56
3200m(about 2 miles)11:42
5000m(5k)18:47
5 miles31:06
10,000m(10k)39:10
ten miles1:04:51
a half marathon1:26:20
a marathon3:00:0

Best of luck on the journey!

I like them targets too....Don't see why i can't get most of them... To be honest I though that to do a sub 3 marathon you would need to be in the 29 zone for 5 miles and close to 60 mins for 10.

Racing Flat

MCOS wrote: »

the mile5:39
3000m(3k)10:56
3200m(about 2 miles)11:42
5000m(5k)18:47
5 miles31:06
10,000m(10k)39:10
ten miles1:04:51
a half marathon1:26:20

IMHO these times will equate to a 3.10 marathon, but maybe that's just poor endurance me.

Abhainn

Racing Flat wrote: »

IMHO these times will equate to a 3.10 marathon, but maybe that's just poor endurance me.

Best of luck Supercell in your goal.

But I'd doubt you'd go sub 3 if your best is equal to the times listed for 5 miles and other distances up. Equalling the first 4 would see me through, though I haven;t tried to PB those distances this year, and I'm no speed merchant.

MCOS

Racing Flat wrote: »

IMHO these times will equate to a 3.10 marathon, but maybe that's just poor endurance me.

True, they may be a minute or so slower per target. The point is you need to be at a minimum of these paces to look at sub 3. And so what? If he achieves 3'10 thats still fantastic:D!

Just for reference these splits were given to me by a friend who did 2'53' and as far as I know she did about a 31' 5 mile, 38' 10k and an 85' half marathon on her way. That said she has amazing endurance built over the years.

Racing Flat

MCOS wrote: »

Just for reference these splits were given to me by a friend who did 2'53' and as far as I know she did about a 31' 5 mile, 38' 10k and an 85' half marathon on her way. That said she has amazing endurance built over the years.

Fair enough, you can't argue with hard data.... But I would imagine she is one of the few people who have much greater endurance in relation to her speed. I know someone like this also, a 83 min half this year and a 2.48 marathon, but for the very vast majority of runners I know, their graph is in the opposite direction, their shorter distances might put them at 2.45 for a marathon, but they run 3 hours.

Your friend is doubling her half marathon time and adding 3 mins, the person I know doubles and adds 2, but for most people I would put it at double and add 10-15mins. Even Haile with a 58min half mara pb doubles and adds nearly 8...

The benchmarks above will certainly be good for the OP to tick off on the way to sub 3, but I was doing these when I was somewhere between 3.15 and 3.06. Again IMHO, if I was coaching an athlete to sub 3 I'd be more confident about his chances if he could get under 18 for 5k, under 38 for 10k, around 62mins or better for 10miles and 83 or so for a half. I do know fellows who've done it off a 65min 10 mile and an 85min half, but I'd be happier with a bit of breathing space.

Racing Flat

MCOS wrote: »

If he achieves 3'10 thats still fantastic:D!

Not if he wants to run sub 3! Ask Peckham or Sungod if they are delighted with 3.00.00 and 3.00.04!

Peckham

Racing Flat wrote: »

Not if he wants to run sub 3! Ask Peckham or Sungod if they are delighted with 3.00.00 and 3.00.04!

Still haunts me everyday. Am hoping that the queasy feeling I get in my stomach everyday when walking past where the finish line was in Merrion Square will disappear soon! Roll on Berlin!

Racing Flat wrote: »

if I was coaching an athlete to sub 3 I'd be more confident about his chances if he could get under 18 for 5k, under 38 for 10k, around 62mins or better for 10miles and 83 or so for a half

Incidentally, I haven't achieved any of these times. Mind you, except for the half, it's been a while since I've raced any of those distances.

Given the title of the thread, I would expect the OP would not (at this stage) be happy with 3:10.

shels4ever

Racing Flat wrote: »

Fair enough, you can't argue with hard data.... But I would imagine she is one of the few people who have much greater endurance in relation to her speed. I know someone like this also, a 83 min half this year and a 2.48 marathon, but for the very vast majority of runners I know, their graph is in the opposite direction, their shorter distances might put them at 2.45 for a marathon, but they run 3 hours.

Your friend is doubling her half marathon time and adding 3 mins, the person I know doubles and adds 2, but for most people I would put it at double and add 10-15mins. Even Haile with a 58min half mara pb doubles and adds nearly 8...

The benchmarks above will certainly be good for the OP to tick off on the way to sub 3, but I was doing these when I was somewhere between 3.15 and 3.06. Again IMHO, if I was coaching an athlete to sub 3 I'd be more confident about his chances if he could get under 18 for 5k, under 38 for 10k, around 62mins or better for 10miles and 83 or so for a half. I do know fellows who've done it off a 65min 10 mile and an 85min half, but I'd be happier with a bit of breathing space.

That sounds bang on to me,

Supercell

Racing Flat wrote: »

Not if he wants to run sub 3! Ask Peckham or Sungod if they are delighted with 3.00.00 and 3.00.04!

Lol, that's exactly right!
I'll probably know by late spring what my final time is likely to be, as long as i don't loose the plot during the race and do myself justice then I'll be happy with whatever i achieve ..until next time when I better it!
It's extremely useful to have split times like this to aim for and then hopefully beat. Give me concrete short term goals which works well for me (short span of attention and all that).
I think if i did a 3:00:04 I'd just lie to everyone and tell them I did 2:59:59 , but inside I'd be hurting bad!!

shels4ever

Supercell wrote: »

Lol, that's exactly right!
I'll probably know by late spring what my final time is likely to be, as long as i don't loose the plot during the race and do myself justice then I'll be happy with whatever i achieve ..until next time when I better it!
It's extremely useful to have split times like this to aim for and then hopefully beat. Give me concrete short term goals which works well for me (short span of attention and all that).
I think if i did a 3:00:04 I'd just lie to everyone and tell them I did 2:59:59 , but inside I'd be hurting bad!!

A nice lie, It would be great until your mates look up your chip time when the results come out

Supercell

Did three kilometres today which felt pretty easy but left knee was a little sore near the end. It feels fine walking on it so hopefully nothing major. The trail i was running on was very muddy and slippery so I think the lateral movement was tougher on the knee than a dry trail would be.
Probably just as well tomorrow is a rest day.

tunney

Racing Flat wrote: »

IMHO these times will equate to a 3.10 marathon, but maybe that's just poor endurance me.

Yeah I'd agree, the 5km, 10km and half marathon are closer to 3:30 runner than 3:00

MCOS

tunney wrote: »

Yeah I'd agree, the 5km, 10km and half marathon are closer to 3:30 runner than 3:00

Sigh... eh I don't think so.

Ask any of the 3'30 runners in this Forum if they have hit those 5k, 10k or 1/2M times. Here are a few... I certainly haven't

Sub 3:30
ClashCityRocker
3'19'59"
Ciaran15
3'20'00"
early evening
3'24"00
shellada1
3'25'00"
MCOS
3'29'00"
ugly john
3'29'59"
tdow
3'29'59"
Krusty Clown
3'29'59"
nortal
3'30'00"

Perhaps the 3 hour guys, RF, SUNGOD, Peckham et al may have achieved all of those benchmarks with a bit to spare... but thats the point of those targets. They are not specific racing PB targets, just pace targets for a Marathon. Why would Runners World use such a calculator if it was so off?! Its not an exact science, just a checklist while you build endurance to give you confidence in your progress!

tunney

MCOS wrote: »

Sigh... eh I don't think so.

Ask any of the 3'30 runners in this Forum if they have hit those 5k, 10k or 1/2M times. Here are a few... I certainly haven't

Sub 3:30
ClashCityRocker
3'19'59"
Ciaran15
3'20'00"
early evening
3'24"00
shellada1
3'25'00"
MCOS
3'29'00"
ugly john
3'29'59"
tdow
3'29'59"
Krusty Clown
3'29'59"
nortal
3'30'00"

Perhaps the 3 hour guys, RF, SUNGOD, Peckham et al may have achieved all of those benchmarks with a bit to spare... but thats the point of those targets. They are not specific racing PB targets, just pace targets for a Marathon. Why would Runners World use such a calculator if it was so off?! Its not an exact science, just a checklist while you build endurance to give you confidence in your progress!

Hunnymonster, can you split this as i don't want to hijack the lads training diary.

The problem with calculators is the extremes. I don't think the formulae work well on the <3k or >30k distances.

SUNGOD

Peckham wrote: »

Still haunts me everyday. Am hoping that the queasy feeling I get in my stomach everyday when walking past where the finish line was in Merrion Square will disappear soon! Roll on Berlin!



QUOTE]

i initially thought that feeling was food poisioning untill i realised what it really was
i just call mine the 4 second feeling!!!!!!

Supercell

5km done this morning in beautiful blazing sunshine. Everywhere was frozen white, beautiful day to be out in the hills
Time was 24:28 and I have slight cramping in both legs which is nice in a masochistic way!
I guess the feed of drink I had last couple of nights isn't conducive to effective running..that's going to have to be drastically cut in future i reckon!
In other news got myself a Forerunner 405 with HRM which is pretty cool, will be watching how my heart rate changes over time during training using that.

Supercell

Just back in from my morning run. Set a new best time of 22:41 which I'm pretty happy with.
Roads are a total disaster around here, showers yesterday left them wet which froze overnight. Had to take it easy in many spots as I skated more than ran accross the surface! All of which means this mornings PB should be beaten this week
Beautiful running on a frosty morning but man does that cold air cut into the lungs at first!

Supercell

22:31 in lashing rain. Didn't really want to go out but the day i don't is the I quit so had to do it. Have to admit, I don't really like running in lashing rain. But feels great afterwards to have done it, onwards and upwards!
Interestingly my heart rate didn't spike anywhere near as high as previously -173 compared to 192 at peak, though effort expended felt the same at least, maybe the cooling effect of the rain had something to do with it.

Krusty_Clown

Great running Supercell. Just a quick aside: Is that your Anamoe website you mention in your footer? I have referenced it a few times before when heading out on the Wicklow Way around Djouce and Roundwood etc. Very handy!

Supercell

Krusty_Clown wrote: »

Great running Supercell. Just a quick aside: Is that your Anamoe website you mention in your footer? I have referenced it a few times before when heading out on the Wicklow Way around Djouce and Roundwood etc. Very handy!

Thanks, tis indeed my little site

Supercell

Did a 12K cycle this morning , very pleasantly surprised to notice that my strength pushing up hills seems to have come on leaps and bounds since i started jogging, felt easy.
Went for the usual 5k jog later and did a PB 22:15.
Next week am going to add a couple of K to the run twice and see how that goes. Feeling pretty comfortable now on the 5k.
First time also that I didnt have the slightest twinge from my knees, seems like they are strengthening up.

cfitz

Sounds like training is going well for you. Keep up the good work, don't forget about that sub-3 goal!

Supercell

cfitz wrote: »

Sounds like training is going well for you. Keep up the good work, don't forget about that sub-3 goal!

Thanks cfitz, that goal is never far away from my mind!

The training continues to go well. Did my weekly "long" run today which was 9.62km according to the Garmin around Vartry lakes which was horribly muddy and had to jump over fallen trees and duck under others in places, but i did enjoy it hugely..well at least the first 8km or so!!
Have a couple of small blisters and legs a bit sore (just muscle soreness, knees are grand, knee pain I had first couple of weeks seems to be almost completely gone now) but totally delighted to have done it. This would have been impossible for me to do even two weeks ago and the sense of accomplishment is massive. The time, 56min, of course will need to improve , but the main aim is to build up to being able to keep moving for ...3hours solid. I earned a chocolate bar today
Have also lost 7lbs in the last three weeks which is pretty nice too have to say..hope that keeps up, not like I cannot afford to loose more than a few pounds:)

Onwards and upwards!

cfitz

Good stuff. You should probably look into joining a club before the end of February I'd say. 7 pounds in 3 weeks is great by the way!

Supercell wrote: »

The time, 56min, of course will need to improve , but the main aim is to build up to being able to keep moving for ...3hours solid.

What month are you hoping to run the marathon in? I don't know too much about marathon running, but I reckon that you could get away with keeping your longest run below 75 minutes until about 6 months before the marathon. Again, I would suggest further research on this, but in my opinion it might be a good idea to keep your daily runs at about 30-40 minutes until you are covering 6km in 30 minutes without killing yourself.

shels4ever

cfitz wrote: »

Good stuff. You should probably look into joining a club before the end of February I'd say. 7 pounds in 3 weeks is great by the way!



What month are you hoping to run the marathon in? I don't know too much about marathon running, but I reckon that you could get away with keeping your longest run below 75 minutes until about 6 months before the marathon. Again, I would suggest further research on this, but in my opinion it might be a good idea to keep your daily runs at about 30-40 minutes until you are covering 6km in 30 minutes without killing yourself.

From what i read i would agree i've doen some reading and most has suggested that 75=90 mins in more then enough up until about 18-20 week before.

Supercell

Thanks cfitz and shels4ever, I think that might be a good idea long term. Next year I'm heading to China for a month on hols (Febuary), running over there is going to be interesting to say the least
When I come back in March I think I might join a club, would be nice to have others to have a bit of banter with and obviously a competitive spirit does wonders for the motivation.

Its funny, immediately after the run I had to force down a little bit of food and water. Now a few hours later i'm utterly ravenous and just wolfed down a large chicken fillet in seconds. Need to be careful about these post run urges!

Supercell

Ohh sweet jebus save me!!

Just back from a Annamoe-Rathdrum-Rathnew-Ashford-Roundwood-Annamoe cycle. Garmin says it was 49.17km.
At 20km my bum started to hurt . Note to self..you won't just be grand without the cycle shorts on long rides!!
I feel like I've been kicked in the bum by an elephant. Its hurts sitting down and climing stairs is total agony!!

Total time on the road 2:05. Garmin training centre says 3108 calories burned..thats the wine excused tonight so

Tomorrow is a rest day, I think its gong to be a painful one at that .
Still feels great for having done it.

Supercell

Recovered from Saturdays killer bike ride.
Daily runs starting today increased to just over 7km from 5km before.
Fairly comfortable run, getting used to new track, all road based for the moment, except the weekly long one which will be around the mountains or somewhere scenic. Total running time was roughly 40 mins. Taking it easy as my base fitness is still pretty low and dont want to injure.

Supercell

Did 10km today in 55:48 in a Oldbridge, Laragh, Anname loop
Started off terrible, head wasnt in the game at all and was going to turn back after first couple of kilomtres and even walked for about 50 metres. Then just decided to push ahead and everything seemed to click into place.
Nice day for a run, cool no wind or rain, couldnt ask for much more really. One of the desents went down about 200 metres and knees were seriously hurting after that but settled on the level again. Think i'll pick a route tomorrow will less extreme asents and desents as my knees cant take the pounding yet.

Supercell

Legs a little stiff after yesterdays 10k so went for a cycle instead.
Perfectly blue skies and no wind, brilliant weather to be out in. Did 21km with only 240 metres of climb in 55 minutes so a nice easy ride for the most part. Right knee a little sore near the end, taking tomorrow off which should set it right again, doesnt hurt walking on.

Supercell

Short 12km cycle this morning then decided to go for a little 5km jog. Had great spring in my stride initially so went all out for a PB only for my shins to be killing me on the last couple of Km, still got a PB by one second so it was all worthwhile Next time must rember to restrain myself and pace it better.
That said after several days boozing and gluttony I reckon its not a bad performance.

Think the diet will have to return with a vengance after the xmas break. I reakon the only thing preventing me turning into Mr Blobby is the daily runs and cycles, still have put on 2lbs but thats acceptable and should be lost fairly easily next week I reckon.
Now for a nice sausage and black puddin sarnie smothered in ketchup and mustard washed down with a nice hot cuppa.

Supercell

After long runs over Christmas the shins were feeling pretty tender even after a one day break in training so did two days running instead of three and then took another two off.
Best thing i could of done, shins are fine now and it seems my fitness has improved as a result.
Ran the usual 5km route today under 23 mins but that was at an easy pace and heart rate was pretty low throughout. Definitely felt the spring in my step. Also dropped 4lb since last weeks gluttony as the diet returned to something more healthy.
Learned my lesson, I should still to the Higdon plan and not try to increase greater than 10% per week, I think I did about 50% extra mileage during Christmas week which was just too much and has probably set me back a week in real terms though it did help keep the weight down

Diet will go to pot as am off work now until Sunday and will be drinking too much...
New year though will be back in the groove.
All in all very happy that over Christmas despite overdoing the exercise a bit much and the eating there is definite progress made fitness wise, but I must learn to keep the head and not try to go too far too fast or it will be counter productive.

Woddle

I think your being very sensible and it will be to your benefit. When I started at the start of the year, I overdid it on the milage but kept kidding myself and then I suffered badly from shin splints and sometimes lack of motivation due to being burned out. which caused me to miss alot of training. Best advice keep doing the 10% rule and from the book advanced marathoning your told that if you miss a session, don't try and make it up, it does more harm than good. Keep up the great work

Supercell

Thanks Woddle, my biggest fear is injury. On rest days i tend to want to get outside and do something especially if its clear and sunny outside with no wind or rain like lately but the lesson from Xmas week is that its a pyrrhic victory to ramp up the miles too fast as it can lead to enforced rest days which suck.

Supercell

Long run day today. Did 11.2KM around Vartry lakes.
Right knee was a little sore but nothing major. Right sock is also more holely than the pope which was a bad move. Got a blister in one of the hole areas there around the 8km mark and it hurt like hell at the end...lesson learnt!!

Day off tomorrow and will go for a cycle after that to give the blisters a chance to heal up.
If it wasnt for the knee and the blisters i could have gone on much further, legs dont really feel achey in a muscle kind of way. Am pretty sure as I loose weight my knees will handle the runs a lot better.

Slogger Jogger

Sounds like you're ticking over nicely. Do you have gps details (e.g. motionbased) for your vartry run? I've only recently heard about a path around the lakes but wonder where is the best place to start out from etc. If I saw your 'track' I could follow your lead. Cheers.

Supercell

I sure do, uploading now as we speak.
The route goes across the lakes three times which i think is pretty nice.
I took the road around the top lake (will make more sense when you see the route) as last time when I took the trail alongside the lake in that part it was a total mudbath and very narrow and spent more time jumping over puddles and trees than enjoying the run, though maybe you like that stuff.
Its a nice flat route and pretty scenic to boot, a light jog for a pro like yourself

Supercell

Here's two alternative routes :-

11KM route taken today - http://trail.motionbased.com/trail/activity/7363599

The muddier 9.6Km version - http://trail.motionbased.com/trail/activity/7363610

Slogger Jogger

:)Cool - a figure of 8 to keep us guessing. 'Watched' your run using the garmin player. Isn't technology wonderful.

Supercell

Slogger Jogger wrote: »

:)Cool - a figure of 8 to keep us guessing. 'Watched' your run using the garmin player. Isn't technology wonderful.

That player thingy is pretty cool, didn't even know it existed before now

Supercell

New PB on 5K run - 22:02. Started out as an easy run, noticed at the halfway mark that I was about a minute ahead of "easy pace" and felt good so pushed it a little harder on the second half.
Think i'll go all out to break that 22 minute marker from the outset tomorrow, that would kick ass (imho!!).

Slogger Jogger

Great running Supercell. Keep it up and 21 will be next.

Supercell

Wahooo!!
Set out today with the sole intent on aiming for a PB from the start.
I came home in 20:48!!, beating my previous PB (set yesterday) by over a minute!!
I stomped and danced all over that sukka!!
Yes I'm bleedin' shattered and the sweat is pouring off me, but damn it feels goood!!
Todays PB will be beaten of course, but not for a while I think, tomorrow am going for a cycle to give the knees a rest.