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RFID: A Generation is all they need

  • 25-11-2008 9:53pm
    #1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,823 ✭✭✭


    KEVIN HAGGERTY
    Toronto Star
    Sunday, December 10, 2006

    One day we will all happily be implanted with microchips, and our every move will be monitored. The technology exists; the only barrier is society's resistance to the loss of privacy

    By the time my four-year-old son is swathed in the soft flesh of old age, he will likely find it unremarkable that he and almost everyone he knows will be permanently implanted with a microchip. Automatically tracking his location in real time, it will connect him with databases monitoring and recording his smallest behavioural traits.

    Most people anticipate such a prospect with a sense of horrified disbelief, dismissing it as a science-fiction fantasy. The technology, however, already exists. For years humane societies have implanted all the pets that leave their premises with a small identifying microchip. As well, millions of consumer goods are now traced with tiny radio frequency identification chips that allow satellites to reveal their exact location.

    A select group of people are already "chipped" with devices that automatically open doors, turn on lights, and perform other low-level miracles. Prominent among such individuals is researcher Kevin Warwick of Reading University in England; Warwick is a leading proponent of the almost limitless potential uses for such chips.

    Other users include the patrons of the Baja Beach Club in Barcelona, many of whom have paid about $150 (U.S.) for the privilege of being implanted with an identifying chip that allows them to bypass lengthy club queues and purchase drinks by being scanned. These individuals are the advance guard of an effort to expand the technology as widely as possible.

    From this point forward, microchips will become progressively smaller, less invasive, and easier to deploy. Thus, any realistic barrier to the wholesale "chipping" of Western citizens is not technological but cultural. It relies upon the visceral reaction against the prospect of being personally marked as one component in a massive human inventory.

    Today we might strongly hold such beliefs, but sensibilities can, and probably will, change. How this remarkable attitudinal transformation is likely to occur is clear to anyone who has paid attention to privacy issues over the past quarter-century. There will be no 3 a.m. knock on the door by storm troopers come to force implants into our bodies. The process will be more subtle and cumulative, couched in the unassailable language of progress and social betterment, and mimicking many of the processes that have contributed to the expansion of closed-circuit television cameras and the corporate market in personal data.

    A series of tried and tested strategies will be marshalled to familiarize citizens with the technology. These will be coupled with efforts to pressure tainted social groups and entice the remainder of the population into being chipped.
    This, then, is how the next generation will come to be microchipped.
    It starts in distant countries. Having tested the technology on guinea pigs, both human and animal, the first widespread use of human implanting will occur in nations at the periphery of the Western world. Such developments are important in their own right, but their international significance pertains to how they familiarize a global audience with the technology and habituate them to the idea that chipping represents a potential future.

    An increasing array of hypothetical chipping scenarios will also be depicted in entertainment media, furthering the familiarization process.
    In the West, chips will first be implanted in members of stigmatized groups. Pedophiles are the leading candidate for this distinction, although it could start with terrorists, drug dealers, or whatever happens to be that year's most vilified criminals. Short-lived promises will be made that the technology will only be used on the "worst of the worst." In fact, the wholesale chipping of incarcerated individuals will quickly ensue, encompassing people on probation and on parole.

    Even accused individuals will be tagged, a measure justified on the grounds that it would stop them from fleeing justice. Many prisoners will welcome this development, since only chipped inmates will be eligible for parole, weekend release, or community sentences. From the prison system will emerge an evocative vocabulary distinguishing chippers from non-chippers.
    Although the chips will be justified as a way to reduce fraud and other crimes, criminals will almost immediately develop techniques to simulate other people's chip codes and manipulate their data.

    The comparatively small size of the incarcerated population, however, means that prisons would be simply a brief stopover on a longer voyage. Commercial success is contingent on making serious inroads into tagging the larger population of law-abiding citizens. Other stigmatized groups will therefore be targeted. This will undoubtedly entail monitoring welfare recipients, a move justified to reduce fraud, enhance efficiency, and ensure that the poor do not receive "undeserved" benefits.

    Once e-commerce is sufficiently advanced, welfare recipients will receive their benefits as electronic vouchers stored on their microchips, a policy that will be tinged with a sense of righteousness, as it will help ensure that clients can only purchase government-approved goods from select merchants, reducing the always disconcerting prospect that poor people might use their limited funds to purchase alcohol or tobacco.

    Civil libertarians will try to foster a debate on these developments. Their attempts to prohibit chipping will be handicapped by the inherent difficulty in animating public sympathy for criminals and welfare recipients — groups that many citizens are only too happy to see subjected to tighter regulation. Indeed, the lesser public concern for such groups is an inherent part of the unarticulated rationale for why coerced chipping will be disproportionately directed at the stigmatized.

    The official privacy arm of the government will now take up the issue. Mandated to determine the legality of such initiatives, privacy commissioners and Senate Committees will produce a forest of reports presented at an archipelago of international conferences. Hampered by lengthy research and publication timelines, their findings will be delivered long after the widespread adoption of chipping is effectively a fait accompli. The research conclusions on the effectiveness of such technologies will be mixed and open to interpretation.
    Officials will vociferously reassure the chipping industry that they do not oppose chipping itself, which has fast become a growing commercial sector. Instead, they are simply seeking to ensure that the technology is used fairly and that data on the chips is not misused. New policies will be drafted.

    What might Hitler, Mao or Milosevic have accomplished if their citizens were chipped, coded, and remotely monitored?

    Employers will start to expect implants as a condition of getting a job. The U.S. military will lead the way, requiring chips for all soldiers as a means to enhance battlefield command and control — and to identify human remains. From cooks to commandos, every one of the more than one million U.S. military personnel will see microchips replace their dog tags.
    Following quickly behind will be the massive security sector. Security guards, police officers, and correctional workers will all be expected to have a chip. Individuals with sensitive jobs will find themselves in the same position.

    The first signs of this stage are already apparent. In 2004, the Mexican attorney general's office started implanting employees to restrict access to secure areas. The category of "sensitive occupation" will be expansive to the point that anyone with a job that requires keys, a password, security clearance, or identification badge will have those replaced by a chip.
    Judges hearing cases on the constitutionality of these measures will conclude that chipping policies are within legal limits. The thin veneer of "voluntariness" coating many of these programs will allow the judiciary to maintain that individuals are not being coerced into using the technology.
    In situations where the chips are clearly forced on people, the judgments will deem them to be undeniable infringements of the right to privacy. However, they will then invoke the nebulous and historically shifting standard of "reasonableness" to pronounce coerced chipping a reasonable infringement on privacy rights in a context of demands for governmental efficiency and the pressing need to enhance security in light of the still ongoing wars on terror, drugs, and crime.

    At this juncture, an unfortunately common tragedy of modern life will occur: A small child, likely a photogenic toddler, will be murdered or horrifically abused. It will happen in one of the media capitals of the Western world, thereby ensuring non-stop breathless coverage. Chip manufactures will recognize this as the opportunity they have been anticipating for years. With their technology now largely bug-free, familiar to most citizens and comparatively inexpensive, manufacturers will partner with the police to launch a high-profile campaign encouraging parents to implant their children "to ensure your own peace of mind."
    Special deals will be offered. Implants will be free, providing the family registers for monitoring services. Loving but unnerved parents will be reassured by the ability to integrate tagging with other functions on their PDA so they can see their child any time from any place.

    Paralleling these developments will be initiatives that employ the logic of convenience to entice the increasingly small group of holdouts to embrace the now common practice of being tagged. At first, such convenience tagging will be reserved for the highest echelon of Western society, allowing the elite to move unencumbered through the physical and informational corridors of power. Such practices will spread more widely as the benefits of being chipped become more prosaic. Chipped individuals will, for example, move more rapidly through customs.

    Indeed, it will ultimately become a condition of using mass-transit systems that officials be allowed to monitor your chip. Companies will offer discounts to individuals who pay by using funds stored on their embedded chip, on the small-print condition that the merchant can access large swaths of their personal data. These "discounts" are effectively punitive pricing schemes, charging unchipped individuals more as a way to encourage them to submit to monitoring. Corporations will seek out the personal data in hopes of producing ever more fine-grained customer profiles for marketing purposes, and to sell to other institutions.

    By this point all major organizations will be looking for opportunities to capitalize on the possibilities inherent in an almost universally chipped population. The uses of chips proliferate, as do the types of discounts. Each new generation of household technology becomes configured to operate by interacting with a person's chip.
    Finding a computer or appliance that will run though old-fashioned "hands-on"' interactions becomes progressively more difficult and costly. Patients in hospitals and community care will be routinely chipped, allowing medical staff — or, more accurately, remote computers — to monitor their biological systems in real time.

    Eager to reduce the health costs associated with a largely docile citizenry, authorities will provide tax incentives to individuals who exercise regularly. Personal chips will be remotely monitored to ensure that their heart rate is consistent with an exercise regime.
    By now, the actual process of "chipping" for many individuals will simply involve activating certain functions of their existing chip. Any prospect of removing the chip will become increasingly untenable, as having a chip will be a precondition for engaging in the main dynamics of modern life, such as shopping, voting, and driving.

    The remaining holdouts will grow increasingly weary of Luddite jokes and subtle accusations that they have something to hide. Exasperated at repeatedly watching neighbours bypass them in "chipped" lines while they remain subject to the delays, inconveniences, and costs reserved for the unchipped, they too will choose the path of least resistance and get an implant.

    In one generation, then, the cultural distaste many might see as an innate reaction to the prospect of having our bodies marked like those of an inmate in a concentration camp will likely fade.
    In the coming years some of the most powerful institutional actors in society will start to align themselves to entice, coerce, and occasionally compel the next generation to get an implant.

    Now, therefore, is the time to contemplate the unprecedented dangers of this scenario. The most serious of these concern how even comparatively stable modern societies will, in times of fear, embrace treacherous promises. How would the prejudices of a Joe McCarthy, J. Edgar Hoover, or of southern Klansmen — all of whom were deeply integrated into the American political establishment — have manifest themselves in such a world? What might Hitler, Mao or Milosevic have accomplished if their citizens were chipped, coded, and remotely monitored?

    Choirs of testimonials will soon start to sing the virtues of implants. Calm reassurances will be forthcoming about democratic traditions, the rule of law, and privacy rights. History, unfortunately, shows that things can go disastrously wrong, and that this happens with disconcerting regularity. Little in the way of international agreements, legality, or democratic sensibilities has proved capable of thwarting single-minded ruthlessness.
    "It can't happen here" has become the whispered swan song of the disappeared. Best to contemplate these dystopian potentials before we proffer the tender forearms of our sons and daughters. While we cannot anticipate all of the positive advantages that might be derived from this technology, the negative prospects are almost too terrifying to contemplate.


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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,537 ✭✭✭thecommander


    WakeUp wrote: »
    KEVIN HAGGERTY
    Toronto Star
    Sunday, December 10, 2006



    You getting ready to celebrate its 2nd birthday, or is there a purpose?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,823 ✭✭✭WakeUp


    You getting ready to celebrate its 2nd birthday, or is there a purpose?

    well, no , Im not celebrating its 2nd birthday but I think its an interesting read just making it available..


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,609 ✭✭✭Flamed Diving


    Wakeup, this is essentially spamming. Have you any of your own thoughts to contribute?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,823 ✭✭✭WakeUp


    Wakeup, this is essentially spamming. Have you any of your own thoughts to contribute?

    I dont think its spamming. I think its making a story or point of view available on a conspiracy blog for people to read and judge for themselves...


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 6,869 ✭✭✭Mahatma coat


    Yeah but Wakeup it would help if you put the cut and paste bit in Quote Tags and added a paragraph or so of your own interpretation/summary


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,980 ✭✭✭meglome


    Yeah but Wakeup it would help if you put the cut and paste bit in Quote Tags and added a paragraph or so of your own interpretation/summary

    Yup that would really help.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22,525 ✭✭✭✭Esel


    Spam the banner!

    Not your ornery onager



  • Closed Accounts Posts: 261 ✭✭trentf


    rfid aint gonna happen trust me..


  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 16,651 CMod ✭✭✭✭faceman


    I hate threads where the OP gives no comment

    This won't happen


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,823 ✭✭✭WakeUp


    Yeah but Wakeup it would help if you put the cut and paste bit in Quote Tags and added a paragraph or so of your own interpretation/summary

    will do from now on for sure..


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,823 ✭✭✭WakeUp


    Apologies all have not been able to blog recently is why I have not been replying.

    From now on Ill write something aswell to go with whatever I post.

    I dont think its beyond the realms of possibility for something like this to happen and to me there are signs of it becoming more widespread already. My sister has a cat which we brought to the vet a while ago. The cat got seen to and I was paying the bill when I finished that the vet starting talking to us about RFID chips and would you like one for your cat? no way I thought and said an we talked about it for a bit, but its also an example of how chips are being normailsed in my opinion, I dont think you should put chips in anything alive were not robots were human.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,537 ✭✭✭thecommander


    WakeUp wrote: »
    were not robots were human.

    You're cat is human?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,823 ✭✭✭WakeUp


    You're cat is human?

    lol you know what I mean your right though obviously my cat isnt human..


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 20,009 ✭✭✭✭Run_to_da_hills


    Soon it will become mandatory for ALL animals to become etagged. This would be enacted as a precaution against the spread of disease such as foot & mouth, Bird flu amd rabies etc., Of Course this will ALL be orchestrated from BRUSSELS. This will no doubt be discussed at future EU RFID Forums and people will think this is a great idea.
    http://ec.europa.eu/information_society/policy/rfid/psp2008/index_en.htm

    rfid_animals.jpg


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,537 ✭✭✭thecommander


    Soon it will become mandatory for ALL animals to become etagged. [/IMG]

    So what? Are the animals going to take over world order now? Making something over nothing.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 20,009 ✭✭✭✭Run_to_da_hills


    So what? Are the animals going to take over world order now? Making something over nothing.
    No we will be next. :eek:

    RFID in humans would be enacted as a precaution against the spread of infectious disease, illegal migration, and tracking criminals.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,537 ✭✭✭thecommander


    RFID in humans would be enacted as a precaution against the spread of infectious disease, illegal migration, and tracking criminals.

    Is this one of those made up comments again? Or is there any truth to it?

    And whats bad in tracking people who could spread disease? or criminals?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 10 NailGunner


    Your man is bang on. Children are "educated" in state schools. The average school is nothing more than an indoctrination centre. As we have seen, people can be made to believe anything.

    With enough marketing people will welcome the chip.

    And another thing, this "if you do nothing wrong, you have nothing to fear" argument? you would want to be a proper dead beat to think in such a manner.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,976 ✭✭✭✭humanji


    NailGunner wrote: »
    Your man is bang on. Children are "educated" in state schools. The average school is nothing more than an indoctrination centre. As we have seen, people can be made to believe anything.

    With enough marketing people will welcome the chip.

    And another thing, this "if you do nothing wrong, you have nothing to fear" argument? you would want to be a proper dead beat to think in such a manner.
    You've obviously never been to a state run school. The kids don't really respond to education too well these days.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6 strawberry-pc


    http://www.digitalangel.com/

    All they need is Problem

    Then Reacation

    Then a Solution

    like The RFID Chip for Your Security and Safety

    Yeah well im not Buying it


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 20,009 ✭✭✭✭Run_to_da_hills


    Is this one of those made up comments again? Or is there any truth to it?

    And whats bad in tracking people who could spread disease? or criminals?
    Yes it has already been proposed in Paupa Indonesia against HIV patients.
    http://www.time.com/time/world/article/0,8599,1862347,00.html?iid=tsmodule

    It could be very easily implimented there and else where. All the state has to do is to deny vital medication to those that don't comply. If such an act is passed it could easily be past on to criminals that would gladly accept it in exchange for early parole, the military, and eventually you. It will eventually replace the "beast" approved RFID smartcard.

    Verichip is already approved by the FDA in America which leaves the door wide open.

    In October 2004, VeriChip's human-implantable RFID microchip was cleared by the U.S. Food and Drug Administration (FDA) for medical uses in the United States (as a Class II Medical Device). In fact, the implantable microchip is considered a "predicate device" within the FDA, meaning others entering the space in the future will be measured against this device.
    http://www.verichipcorp.com/content/company/corporatefaq#r4

    http://www.freewebs.com/tonysomers/verichip-banner-campaign-anti-nwo.png


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6 strawberry-pc


    http://www.digitalangel.com/

    Read the About Us page

    Gee RFID Tagging looks like Fun

    NOT!


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,537 ✭✭✭thecommander


    http://www.digitalangel.com/

    Read the About Us page

    Gee RFID Tagging looks like Fun

    NOT!

    http://www.campbellsmeat.com/about_campbells/index.cfm

    Read the About Us page

    Gee Butchering looks like Fun

    NOT!



    I fail to see what your point is.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 909 ✭✭✭Gareth37


    NailGunner wrote: »
    Your man is bang on. Children are "educated" in state schools. The average school is nothing more than an indoctrination centre. As we have seen, people can be made to believe anything.

    With enough marketing people will welcome the chip.

    And another thing, this "if you do nothing wrong, you have nothing to fear" argument? you would want to be a proper dead beat to think in such a manner.

    100% correct.

    Lets hope this Government has enough sense and some of God to see the signs and that there will be only one end. Make no mistake about it.

    I would rather die of starvation on the street or be put to death by the EU/Russia/USA than have any chip implanted. This is the end. Listen to Run for the Hills. He is radical but he speaks the truth. You will see a war to allow the north of the world rule the south of the world. You will see a pagan religon in Rome ousting the current church. You will see that its illegal to buy or sell anything without some "mark" which will be a tatoo, card, chip etc of some kind. Then when you least expect it the chapter will be closed and the book of life will be read :(

    Personally I will do nothing wrong, I understand what must happen. But this government must put God before politics, money, economy, richness etc. Its better that we face awful persecution that join such filth.

    Now we must wait!


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,609 ✭✭✭Flamed Diving


    Gareth37 wrote: »
    north of the world rule the south of the world.

    And how has this been different, to say, the past 500 years?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,609 ✭✭✭Flamed Diving


    Gareth37 wrote: »
    But this government must put God before politics, money, economy, richness etc.

    Which god/s would that be then?



  • Closed Accounts Posts: 909 ✭✭✭Gareth37


    Which god/s would that be then?

    Away with your paganism. :eek:

    There is only one God. ;)

    When the things mentioned in these threads happen maybe then you will begin to wonder. God will welcome you back if its His will.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,609 ✭✭✭Flamed Diving


    Gareth37 wrote: »
    God will welcome you back if its His will.

    Exactly. So I may as well do what the **** I like, until then.

    :)


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 909 ✭✭✭Gareth37


    Exactly. So I may as well do what the **** I like, until then.

    :)

    Thats one of the worst sins there is. For it God will call you at a time you least expect.

    The sheep never know the time of day nor the day the shepard is coming but they do know that he will come. :)


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,225 ✭✭✭Ciaran500


    We'll just say sorry.

    God isn't a dick, is he?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,609 ✭✭✭Flamed Diving


    Gareth37 wrote: »
    Thats one of the worst sins there is. For it God will call you at a time you least expect.

    The sheep never know the time of day nor the day the shepard is coming but they do know that he will come. :)

    Ok, I will convert to Vishnu. You convinced me.


    Baaaaaaaa!


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 20,009 ✭✭✭✭Run_to_da_hills


    Back on Topic.

    Microsoft wants to get under your skin. :eek:

    HealthVault links up with VeriMed RFID chips, Verimed is the same as Verichip.
    http://www.antichips.com/what-is-verichip.htm

    Microsoft’s HealthVault, the medical records database, is to be integrated with VeriMed’s human-embedded RFID tags, allowing doctors to access the medical records of unconscious patients with a quick scan of the arm.

    VeriMed consists of an RFID tag that is embedded in the arm of a hopefully willing participant, and responds with a 16-digital identity code when queried at 134KHz. This code can then be used to identify the person through VeriChip’s website, and will soon be able to link to their medical records as stored on Microsoft’s HealthVault system.

    “VeriMed adds an exciting RFID-based option for HealthVault users trying to keep themselves and their families safe,” says Sean Nolan, the chief architect for HealthVault, quoted in RFID Journal. If you’re excited about the idea of being electronically indexed then this is probably the technology for you.
    http://www.theregister.co.uk/2008/12/04/ms_verimed/


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 909 ✭✭✭Gareth37


    Back on Topic.

    Microsoft wants to get under your skin. :eek:

    HealthVault links up with VeriMed RFID chips, Verimed is the same as Verichip.
    http://www.antichips.com/what-is-verichip.htm

    Microsoft’s HealthVault, the medical records database, is to be integrated with VeriMed’s human-embedded RFID tags, allowing doctors to access the medical records of unconscious patients with a quick scan of the arm.

    VeriMed consists of an RFID tag that is embedded in the arm of a hopefully willing participant, and responds with a 16-digital identity code when queried at 134KHz. This code can then be used to identify the person through VeriChip’s website, and will soon be able to link to their medical records as stored on Microsoft’s HealthVault system.

    “VeriMed adds an exciting RFID-based option for HealthVault users trying to keep themselves and their families safe,” says Sean Nolan, the chief architect for HealthVault, quoted in RFID Journal. If you’re excited about the idea of being electronically indexed then this is probably the technology for you.
    http://www.theregister.co.uk/2008/12/04/ms_verimed/

    The RFID could be placed inside the actual money too rather in the actual human. :)


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,609 ✭✭✭Flamed Diving


    Gareth37 wrote: »
    The RFID could be placed inside the actual money too rather in the actual human. :)

    Or it could be placed metaphysically into our imaginations.

    Oh wait, too late for that.

    :)


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,418 ✭✭✭JimiTime


    I'd defo see this becoming a standard in the future. Its actually a great idea, unfortunately like so many things, its the abuse of the technology that I would fear. Anybody who thinks it would never happen, i'd ask why? All it takes is a few more bombs in certain locations, and security is the reason. Or disease outbreaks caused by immigration or the likes, and health is the reason. In principal, I would not have an issue with it, in reality, I'd not let it within a hair of me.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 20,009 ✭✭✭✭Run_to_da_hills


    JimiTime wrote: »
    I'd defo see this becoming a standard in the future. Its actually a great idea, unfortunately like so many things, its the abuse of the technology that I would fear. Anybody who thinks it would never happen, i'd ask why? All it takes is a few more bombs in certain locations, and security is the reason. Or disease outbreaks caused by immigration or the likes, and health is the reason. In principal, I would not have an issue with it, in reality, I'd not let it within a hair of me.
    You reside in the Christianity forum, you should know the spiritual consequences of taking this thing.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,225 ✭✭✭Ciaran500


    You reside in the Christianity forum, you should know the spiritual consequences of taking this thing.
    Only by your interpretation.

    Stop stating everything as fact.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,609 ✭✭✭Flamed Diving


    Ciaran500 wrote: »
    Only by your interpretation.

    Stop stating everything as fact.

    Not just fact. But FACT.

    it-are-a-fact.jpg


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 20,009 ✭✭✭✭Run_to_da_hills


    Ciaran500 wrote: »
    Only by your interpretation.

    Stop stating everything as fact.
    The physical "sores" that break out on anyone who takes the mark described in the book of Revelation are enough to put me off it. Verichip has had already carcinogenic issues with this product on test animals. Fact.

    http://www.nytimes.com/2007/09/11/technology/11micro.html


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,537 ✭✭✭thecommander


    The physical "sores" that break out on anyone who takes the mark described in the book of Revelation are enough to put me off it.

    Do you take everything in the bible as literal truth? Just curious, not trolling.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 20,009 ✭✭✭✭Run_to_da_hills


    Do you take everything in the bible as literal truth? Just curious, not trolling.
    Yes but one must take note of the context and the language used. The Bible has its fair share of similes and metaphors. for example I don't accept the doctrine of transubstantiation because I take the breaking of bread and taking wine as figurative.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,609 ✭✭✭Flamed Diving


    Yes but one must take note of the context and the language used. The Bible has its fair share of similes and metaphors. for example I don't accept the doctrine of transubstantiation because I take the breaking of bread and taking wine as figurative.

    How about selling your raped daughter to her assailant?

    That was a direct command from God.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,537 ✭✭✭thecommander


    Yes but one must take note of the context and the language used. The Bible has its fair share of similes and metaphors. for example I don't accept the doctrine of transubstantiation because I take the breaking of bread and taking wine as figurative.

    So do you believe in the ability to tell the future?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 20,009 ✭✭✭✭Run_to_da_hills


    So do you believe in the ability to tell the future?
    I would believe in prophecy as they call it. The Book of Daniel and Revelation would tie in well with the CT theory on globalisation. (NWO).


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22,525 ✭✭✭✭Esel


    The Bible has its fair share of smilies and metaphors.
    Fixed that for you. :D

    Not your ornery onager



  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 6,869 ✭✭✭Mahatma coat


    How about selling your raped daughter to her assailant?

    That was a direct command from God.

    I thought we had to stone her for being unclean, but not on a sabbath, and in full view of the village,and only by men and ....... fukkit sellin her turns a profit

    :confused::confused::confused:


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,609 ✭✭✭Flamed Diving


    I thought we had to stone her for being unclean, but not on a sabbath, and in full view of the village,and only by men and ....... fukkit sellin her turns a profit

    :confused::confused::confused:

    Something like that. Enough to make us want to ditch the whole bloody thing, anyway. Jesus had some good stuff to say, but that OT stuff is way out there. Anyway, I guess this is the wrong forum for it.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 6,869 ✭✭✭Mahatma coat


    ah yes, the guy who said 'lets all be friends' They nailed him to a tree :D

    I'm conflicted about the whole religious references, on the one hand theres freedom of expression & right to hold whatever belief you like.

    on the other hand I feel that it drags a lot of threads off topic and I Personaly find it iritating and damaging to any point that is trying to be made.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 20,009 ✭✭✭✭Run_to_da_hills


    Parents are being offered electronic tags to keep an eye on their children at the Westfield centre in west London.

    The devices, attached to a child's wrist, set off an alarm if they stray near any of the exits.

    The tags will be offered to parents shopping It is thought to the first shopping centre in the world to offer customers the technology, which also alerts parents if their child goes within 10 yards of any exit.

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/family/4286028/Parents-offered-electronic-tags-for-children-in-shopping-centre.html


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,537 ✭✭✭thecommander


    Parents are being offered electronic tags to keep an eye on their children at the Westfield centre in west London.

    The devices, attached to a child's wrist, set off an alarm if they stray near any of the exits.

    The tags will be offered to parents shopping It is thought to the first shopping centre in the world to offer customers the technology, which also alerts parents if their child goes within 10 yards of any exit.

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/family/4286028/Parents-offered-electronic-tags-for-children-in-shopping-centre.html

    Your right, its a sad sad day in society when parents will do their best to make sure their kids aren't abducted from public places. Shame on them.


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