Engine Oil ripoff

Dunmoon

Halfords 20W/50W car engine oil 5 itre was retailing for € 27.50 last May, then after the $147 per barell oil hike mid summer their price rocketed to € 33.50 soon after. Went back yesterday to buy some thinking it would cost €20 to €25 but no, its still €33.50! Is this the mother-of-all-ripoffs? Where's the best place to buy decent engine oil at an honest price in Waterford\Cork area?

L-M

Dunmoon wrote: »

Halfords 20W/50W car engine oil 5 itre was retailing for € 27.50 last May, then after the $147 per barell oil hike mid summer their price rocketed to € 33.50 soon after. Went back yesterday to buy some thinking it would cost €20 to €25 but no, its still €33.50! Is this the mother-of-all-ripoffs? Where's the best place to buy decent engine oil at an honest price in Waterford\Cork area?

Who buys oil in Halfords? Or wipers or anything for that matter lol. Any motor factors should do it alot cheaper than they ever will.

Dunmoon

Like who?

Drummerboy08

Your in Waterford? Theres a good auto factors around the corner from the courthouse, just up from the tower hotel - They used to have a hop in wexford too. They'll do it cheaper than halfords ever will.

L-M

Dunmoon wrote: »

Like who?

I'm not from that side of the place, but if you try www.goldenpages.ie and try motor factors in your area etc. I wouldn't advise buying anything like that from Halfords. They were charging me 13 euro for a wiper and i got a wiper and a bottle of sun of a gun. Full service kit for the golf from a motor factors for 38euro incl vat. Oil, oil filter, air filter, spark plugs. It's all good:D

SteelyDanJalapeno

Scanlons auto factors in waterford is very reasonable on all servicing stuff, there opposite lidl and smyths toy's and them,

BeardyGit

Ah yeah, here we go with the Halfords bashing again.

The price you pay for any oil will depend largely on how much it cost for them to take it into stock. If they've bought in bulk and it doesn't shift too quickly, the price will stay higher for longer, until the stock is cleared out. If you're refering to Halfords Classic 20W/50, it's hardly surprising to see the price lagging a little higher for longer, as it's inevitably going to take longer to cycle through their stock.

Only recently I bought two 4L cans of GTX High Mileage for just 23.99 a can at retail price (didn't have my trade card with me). That's a whole €6 a can less than the retail price was the last time I serviced the car just 3 months before that... I just checked the receipts there now. GTX will shift a lot quicker than Halfords own brand I'm guessing, so it's hardly surprising the price will remain higher for longer on their own brand and other slow moving oils....Just because it's theirs, doesn't mean it cost that much less.

Also, just because they sell their own brand filters and the like, doesn't mean that's all that's on offer. I've used the Carrickmines branch for the last couple of years and they've always ordered in the kit I want, not just what they have on the shelves. For example, Framm oil filters, Ferodo brake disks and so forth. And the prices have always been as good as my local factors would charge with a trade discount.....

So, enough of the moaning about it. You pay your money and you take your chances. If you want to take a car that stands many thousands of euro and service it with €38 worth of sh1te, fair enough. But I'd rather pick the kit I use rather than just take whatever utter crap the factors hand over in a box.... I've used that kind of spurious junk in the past, but never again.

Decide what you want, then ask them to get it. Halfords have always done this, while the factors (I've used many) will try to push whatever sh1te will give them the biggest margin.

Gil

Voodoomelon

I find Halfords to be great, with a fine selection of almost everything. They don't have much stuff for my car though which doesn't surprise me but they're great for all kinds of fluids, tools and car care.
7 litres of Mobil One 0w-40 cost me €119, which was cheaper than a few places I looked.

alpina

Think quite a lot of the engine oil rip off view is mainly down to how brainwashed the public are into changing their oil at crazy & unnecessary intervals. Many car manufacturers spend years & thousands of € investigating the purities of oil, test after test....hence some oil costs €20 4L some, €80 4L but yet many buy a car, change after 1,000 then at 5,000 increments using the top branded oil! It's €80/90 for a reason, it protects ones engine for 10,000+. If one wants to change twice/three times a year use the €20 ****e, wont be in their long enough to do any damage.
Think there is a sense of 'self satisfaction' 'mechanical bravo' in making frequent changes at €80/90 a pop..."ah but my engine needs it..it's high performance you know" Wake up & save your money..no matter how much you think you know, I'm sure that a forum of BMW/VAG/GM/Merc physicists after months/years of research can be believed & contrary to the conspiracy theorists they are not out to destroy your engine so you come back & buy again... Oil 10/15 years ago needed regular changing, top branded current oil does not. Check the labeling & do some research..

nogoodnamesleft

Halfords are quiet expensive for most things, bulbs car cleaning gear etc. However they are fine for buying the rags and cloths for cleaning the car. I used buy products from Halfords for car care i.e. leather conditioner, car shampoo but I now buy it on ebay. For examlple I bought a meguairs quick clay kit or an online ebay shop cost approx 20 euro at the time delivered to the house. Exact same product was for sale at halfords in Mahon for about 32 euro. They so stock wipers as well I priced the "aero" ones for my car. They were out of stock at the time but they do stock bosch ones think it was around 30 euro for a pair of 21" aero blades. I personally stay away from their own brand stuff bought a H7 bulb for my dipped beam a while back and it burst inside the headlamp 3 days after it was replaced. I replaced that with a bosch one and I had no more problems.

Their customer service in their Tralee store also leaves a lot to be desired....

OldmanMondeo

Well said Alpina, just to give a minor correction, oil can now actaully last more than 20k miles. Also some people are putting 0w30 in cars, many car manufactures are shying away from the 0w30 /40 etc as they feel it is overkill and offers no benefits to what say 5w30 would also offer.

I will try and remember the correct answer, but how here actually knows what the 5W30 10W40 etc stands for???

OP, as pointed out, price is defined to what the product was purchased at. How long would Hlafords or anyone else be in business if they kept selling below cosat. You will find though, if they can't shift the product it will reduce in price. If it doesn't either people are willing to pay the price or the sales / purchasing dept need a kick.

Try AD Waterford 051-870853. They would have Comma oil and Castrol. Comma is part of one of the largest oil groups in the world, who's name escapes me know.

BeardyGit

alpina wrote: »

Think quite a lot of the engine oil rip off view is mainly down to how brainwashed the public are into changing their oil at crazy & unnecessary intervals. Many car manufacturers spend years & thousands of € investigating the purities of oil, test after test....hence some oil costs €20 4L some, €80 4L but yet many buy a car, change after 1,000 then at 5,000 increments using the top branded oil! It's €80/90 for a reason, it protects ones engine for 10,000+. If one wants to change twice/three times a year use the €20 ****e, wont be in their long enough to do any damage.
Think there is a sense of 'self satisfaction' 'mechanical bravo' in making frequent changes at €80/90 a pop..."ah but my engine needs it..it's high performance you know" Wake up & save your money..no matter how much you think you know, I'm sure that a forum of BMW/VAG/GM/Merc physicists after months/years of research can be believed & contrary to the conspiracy theorists they are not out to destroy your engine so you come back & buy again... Oil 10/15 years ago needed regular changing, top branded current oil does not. Check the labeling & do some research..

That's a bit of a simplistic view to take to be honest. There are FAR too many things to be taken into consideration to suggest an expensive oil is necessarily better for your engine, or that you can leave it for longer/greater distances before it should be changed out. I know about some of the newer change intervals, but even those are only higher distance intervals, not time intervals.

This is a subjective thing to be getting into, and if you'll pardon the pun, this probably isn't the best forum for it. The one thing I'd say is that it's foolish to think a modern oil will make up for the neglect many show towards their vehicles, and I'd believe that to be especially true when combined with the type of car owner who'll happily put spurious junk of questionable origin and quality into their multi-thousand pound investments.

I'd rather buy a reasonably priced oil and spend the extra on good quality filters and a higher frequency of fluid changes, rather than a high cost longer interval oil and cheaper complementary consumables.

Gil

BeardyGit

Incidentally, most of Halfords oil products come from Comma. And that's not pure speculation - I've spoken with Halfords purchasing in the UK about this in the past, specifically in relation to the pedigree of their 20W/50 classic oil product.

OldmanMondeo

Gil_Dub wrote: »

Incidentally, most of Halfords oil products come from Comma. And that's not pure speculation - I've spoken with Halfords purchasing in the UK about this in the past, specifically in relation to the pedigree of their 20W/50 classic oil product.

Gil, Comma only re-badge their own Motorway range of oils, These would be the budget in their range. Any anyother Comma oil is as good as any of the top brands and does meet OE spec's.

BeardyGit

Thanks for the clarification OMM - Wasn't aware of that, but agree that the Comma brand is spot on for OE specs.

alpina

Gil_Dub wrote: »

That's a bit of a simplistic view to take to be honest.

Fully concur Gil that this is a very simplistic view point, but it is the principle I am attempting to get across & do not wish to drown this out with vast facts/view points & proper maint./procedure.

But do agree with you...(mostly:D)...

JJJJNR

alpina your recommending that people do not follow the manufactures specs as far as changing oil is concerned, I think thats very simplistic.. and dangerous.

I drive a 2.0Tdi VW and would change the oil regularly, same with all my prev cars, as part of maintenance.

OldmanMondeo

jjjjnr, what alpina is actually saying is people are changing oil well before it is due and paying top dollar for branded products. Oil can last up to 30,000 klm before it needs a change. Regular checking of the oil will ensure that you don't have problems. A lot of major brands, shell, castrol etc charge you a hell of a lot more than some of the smaller branded, like comma, who produce basically the same product meeting the OE spec's.

JJJJNR

Ok, fair enough, pardon me, but is there proof of these findings please provide links as I've been told my car needs an oil change every 10k. which is a major pain, the dip stick is always at the wrong end after around 9k. So in my case what should I do just top up, would I need to change filter myself..?

OldmanMondeo

You probably talking about 10,000 miles, which is about 16000klms. You oil, once it meets the specification of the car manufacture, should be ok for another 14k. Top up would be ok as long as the oil is clean-ist and not black and tar-ish.

alpina

JJJJnr think you are taking issue unnecessarily, am not ridiculing you for changing at 10, 000! My wife's car(07E90) suggests 15, 000 & I myself am guilty of 10, 000 mile changes, so in fact we are in the same boat. If you re-read the post I am referring to those that purchase a brand new car, change after 1,000 & again at 5,000 whilst using top end oils such as Castrol Edge/Mobil 1 etc. These oils are designed for 15,000+ for eg: (Exceeds latest API SM/CF specification, SAE 5W40, ACEA A3/B3, A3/B4, approved for VW: 502 00, MB: 229.3, BMW Longlife-98) So as for me recommending you screw up your warranty by ignoring your manufacturer, don't think so..especially if I am saying your manufacturer is investing time & money in researching oils & maybe we should listen to them instead of exaggerating profits for the oil co's and retail stores. Thats all I'm saying....& is only my opinion, of course people are free to change every 200 miles if they so wish, I merely feel it is not necessary.;)

245

Its worth noting that manufacturers recommended service intervals are calculated to result in what the manufacturer regards as a reasonable lifetime for the engine. It probably won't trouble most owners but an engine may last longer and run better with more care than some manufacturers recommend.

Examples:

Mercedes had a sealed for life gearbox that didn't require any oil changes. The problem was that they reckoned the gearbox life as being 100,000 miles. That might not be what the owner would have expected.

Peugeot reckon that their 1.4 diesel only needs an oil and filter change every 30,000 km or two years. Even a top quality synthetic can only hold so much carbon etc in suspension and I think that its pushing the limits of acceptability for an diesel engine. Most diesel engines will have sludgy looking oil by about 20,000 km between changes. Of course most 1.4 diesel Peugeots won't cover that much mileage over two years and the car will be well out of warranty before any issues arise, but when they arise, they'll be expensive.

Voodoomelon

If you turn around a bottle of Halfords 0w40 and Mobil 1 0w40, they both conform to the exact same standards. The Mobil 1 was about €20 more in total, so I still went for it. I'll continue to change it once a year.

Dunmoon

I cover 20k mls a year and change the oil roughly every 10k mls. Have always found that even after this mileage the oil appears to not be too burnt looking, so there's probably another few k left in it.
Think i'll change to a better quality oil after reading these replies as the engine in my car already has 146k mls. on it, tho still running sweet...

Voodoomelon

Just a note on the colour of "old oil". Recently i did a full oil change, and had a bit of a disaster which resulted in me having to drain it all again immediately. It went in nice and clean and came out black as tar. The inside of your engine is filthy, so it may be a better idea to do changes based on intervals rather than how the oil looks.

BeardyGit

Voodoomelon wrote: »

Just a note on the colour of "old oil". Recently i did a full oil change, and had a bit of a disaster which resulted in me having to drain it all again immediately. It went in nice and clean and came out black as tar. The inside of your engine is filthy, so it may be a better idea to do changes based on intervals rather than how the oil looks.

The inside of your engine *may* be filthy, but it shouldn't be. Part of the function of modern semi/fully synthetic oils and higher quality mineral multigrades is to help keep everything nice and clean inside the block/heads etc. Supposedly part of the premium you pay for, ahem, premium oils, is for the detergents and other additives that are supposed to make your engine last longer, such as seal conditioner/swelling agents etc.

I'm now at almost 8.5k since my last change (haven't used those new cans yet) and the oil still looks clean. And that's an old fashioned Castrol GTX mineral oil. In a 100K mileage V40, with a reportedly unreliable type of engine. She doesn't use a drop of oil between changes (about 8k on average) and returns great fuel economy for what it is. I attribute a large part of that to not only the oil I use, but just as importantly, the brand and quality of oil filter.

Think about it, if the inside of your engine is actually manky, something's not working. And I'd guess it's either the oil or more likely the filters that have been used. Or the sump hasn't been drained for multiple changes perhaps.... I'd suspect the oil and filters firstly though, as they're supposed to loosen and then suspend deposits, the larger of which should end up in the filter membrane.

I know some people would rush straight out now looking for an engine oil flush, or what I'd call a "Tin of engine death", but I'd exercise extreme caution about using those on a car I intended to last for much longer. A thinner oil (say, 5w/30 in instead of 10W/40) for a few hundred miles with a good filter, then changed back to your normal brew and another good filter would be less likely to cause trouble.

That said, there are few of us here who are mechanics, and even those who are wouldn't all agree with each other about these things - Therefore, take the above as nothing more than my opinion, not as an instruction as such.

Esel

OldmanMondeo wrote: »

I will try and remember the correct answer, but how here actually knows what the 5W30 10W40 etc stands for???

Read this and this.

JJJJNR

Anyone know where you can get the best oil, (semi synth) at the best price. Maybe a good thing for a group buy. I've just paid off my car and plan to keep it for about 10 years, its a '05.

BrianD3

My Laguna 1.6 has nearly 190k miles on it now and for the first 100k miles of that the oil was changed by the garage every 18k miles. The oil used was ACEA A3 semi synthetic 10w40 which cost around 5 quid per litre. Since passing 100k I've been doing all oil changes myself and am doing them twice as often i.e. every 9k. The 18k oil changes for over half its life don't appear to have had any detrimental effect on the engine as it runs sweet, burns no oil etc.

Voodoomelon

Gil_Dub wrote: »

The inside of your engine *may* be filthy, but it shouldn't be. Part of the function of modern semi/fully synthetic oils and higher quality mineral multigrades is to help keep everything nice and clean inside the block/heads etc. Supposedly part of the premium you pay for, ahem, premium oils, is for the detergents and other additives that are supposed to make your engine last longer, such as seal conditioner/swelling agents etc.

I'm now at almost 8.5k since my last change (haven't used those new cans yet) and the oil still looks clean. And that's an old fashioned Castrol GTX mineral oil. In a 100K mileage V40, with a reportedly unreliable type of engine. She doesn't use a drop of oil between changes (about 8k on average) and returns great fuel economy for what it is. I attribute a large part of that to not only the oil I use, but just as importantly, the brand and quality of oil filter.

Think about it, if the inside of your engine is actually manky, something's not working. And I'd guess it's either the oil or more likely the filters that have been used. Or the sump hasn't been drained for multiple changes perhaps.... I'd suspect the oil and filters firstly though, as they're supposed to loosen and then suspend deposits, the larger of which should end up in the filter membrane.

I know some people would rush straight out now looking for an engine oil flush, or what I'd call a "Tin of engine death", but I'd exercise extreme caution about using those on a car I intended to last for much longer. A thinner oil (say, 5w/30 in instead of 10W/40) for a few hundred miles with a good filter, then changed back to your normal brew and another good filter would be less likely to cause trouble.

That said, there are few of us here who are mechanics, and even those who are wouldn't all agree with each other about these things - Therefore, take the above as nothing more than my opinion, not as an instruction as such.

Indeed, all this may be true, however you're probably basing all that on the fact that your oil looks clean enough on the dipstick, as does mine. I bet if you were to drain your oil and have a look at it in a large volume, it would look black.