Juninho Pernambucano

fullstop

Anyone watching the Fiorentina v Lyon match tonight will have seen his 2 free kicks, from about 30 and 35 yards, crashing off the crossbar. I don't really follow French football but anytime I see him playing in CL he seems to be the best free-taker in the game. He very rarely seems to miss the target and gets amazing power and accuracy in every free kick.
What does everyone think, is he the best free taker in the world?

eZe^

Yes, him and Del Piero are far and away the most clinical in the game today.

SRFC90

fullstop wrote: »

Anyone watching the Fiorentina v Lyon match tonight will have seen his 2 free kicks, from about 30 and 35 yards, crashing off the crossbar. I don't really follow French football but anytime I see him playing in CL he seems to be the best free-taker in the game. He very rarely seems to miss the target and gets amazing power and accuracy in every free kick.
What does everyone think, is he the best free taker in the world?

Yes.

Mitch Connor

From my limited exposure to him (the odd highlight on eurosport and CL highlights) he is the player i would fear lining up a free kick against United the most.

EDIT:

Ooops. Sorrry.

Ment Ronaldo is the best, obviously.

Frisbee

fullstop wrote: »

Anyone watching the Fiorentina v Lyon match tonight will have seen his 2 free kicks, from about 30 and 35 yards, crashing off the crossbar. I don't really follow French football but anytime I see him playing in CL he seems to be the best free-taker in the game. He very rarely seems to miss the target and gets amazing power and accuracy in every free kick.
What does everyone think, is he the best free taker in the world?

They were two top class free kicks tonight alright.
He would have to be ranked very very highly among the dead ball specialists.

LuckyLloyd

I reckon I'd have him for something a long way out; and Del Piero for the around the box ones where you need it up and down.

Best free kick taker in the world though? Who knows, probably not. The best in the world could be someone you've never heard of who has a much higher efficiency rate than the guys at the top of the game. Juninhio and Del Piero score some screamers, sure, but how many do they miss? I wish stats like that were kept.

EDIT: Also, Beckham is probably still better than the above two from dead balls.

redout

They mentioned on BBC tonight that he has scored in the region of 50 free-kicks. Beckham though was a class act with United, never seemed to bring the prolificacy to Real Madrid though.

Dave!

1. Ronaldo
2. Ronaldo
3. Ronaldo
4. Del Piero
5. Juninho

eirebhoy

Best in the world I would say definitely.

I was reading the rules of the $1m freekick competition in the summer with a load of world class players. Nakamura would probably be favourite for a competition of that type as the player can choose where to put the ball. I'd say Naka's the best in the world if a player could put the ball in the perfect spot. Put the ball 5 yards outside the box on the keepers left and he'd score more than he'd miss (he's excellent at reading which way he thinks the keeper will go because the keeper hasn't got time to wait for the shot).

Juninho, Naka and Del seem to be top 3 atm. That's direct freekicks only though.

Ronaldo hasn't been doing it long enough yet.

Bubs101

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

I reckon I'd have him for something a long way out; and Del Piero for the around the box ones where you need it up and down.

Best free kick taker in the world though? Who knows, probably not. The best in the world could be someone you've never heard of who has a much higher efficiency rate than the guys at the top of the game. Juninhio and Del Piero score some screamers, sure, but how many do they miss? I wish stats like that were kept.

EDIT: Also, Beckham is probably still better than the above two from dead balls.

Arguable if Beckham was ever better than Juninho. I don't know about you but I was only introduced to Juninho when he moved to Lyon in 2001 and since then they've dominated and he's been brilliant.

Del Piero on the other hand is just going through a massive purple patch in terms of free kicks. He's great at them but not in the same league as Juninho

Frisbee

Dave! wrote: »

1. Ronaldo
2. Ronaldo
3. Ronaldo
4. Del Piero
5. Juninho

Joke?

An interesting fact about Juninho:

On September 7, 1999, Juninho became the first football player to play two top-level matches in two different countries in the same day. He represented his country in the second half of the friendly match between Brazil and Argentina in Porto Alegre, which Brazil won 4-2, playing about fifteen minutes. In spite of a delayed flight to Montevideo, he still arrived in Uruguay in time to feature in the second half of the Copa Mercosur match between Vasco and Nacional.

LuckyLloyd

lol, Ronaldo is a horrendous free kick taker. When he clicks it is all well and good, but the vast majority of the time he fails to hit the target and make the keeper work. Also, most of the ones he has scored have come at home in non pressure games.

fullstop

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

I reckon I'd have him for something a long way out; and Del Piero for the around the box ones where you need it up and down.

Best free kick taker in the world though? Who knows, probably not. The best in the world could be someone you've never heard of who has a much higher efficiency rate than the guys at the top of the game. Juninhio and Del Piero score some screamers, sure, but how many do they miss? I wish stats like that were kept.

EDIT: Also, Beckham is probably still better than the above two from dead balls.

Thing about Juninho is that he rarely hits the wall or puts it wide. I saw another Lyon match about a month ago where he hit the woodwork 3 times in the same match from frees and twice again tonight. While none of them went in, it's desperately unlucky that at least half of them didn't

redout

I remember they done an analysis on MOTD several years ago and concluded that Beckham's free-kicks were unsaveable if hit correct. Something about top spin on the ball or something along those lines.

Mitch Connor

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

lol, Ronaldo is a horrendous free kick taker. When he clicks it is all well and good, but the vast majority of the time he fails to hit the target and make the keeper work. Also, most of the ones he has scored have come at home in non pressure games.

yeah - its a freakin joke.

Dave!

Frisbee wrote: »

Joke?

No I seriously think he is the 1st, 2nd and 3rd best free kick taker in the world...!

Mitch Connor

redout wrote: »

I remember they done an analysis on MOTD several years ago and concluded that Beckham's free-kicks were unsaveable if hit correct. Something about back spin on the ball or something along those lines.

If hit correct, any freekick is unsavable. If the keeper saves it, you haven't hit it perfectly.

All that would point to is Becks not hitting many of them correctly, cause he didn't get anywhere near as many as people would have us believe. In his last season at united, he got ONE. on the last day of the season.

Frisbee

Dave! wrote: »

No I seriously think he is the 1st, 2nd and 3rd best free kick taker in the world...!

I can't tell if your being sarcastic or not. I sincerely hope so or I'm going to have to throw something at you next time I see you in the corridor... :pac:

eZe^

Ronaldinho is also definitely up there with Nakamura, Del Piero and Juninho.

I honestly think this is the perfect free kick.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Uva3nVIQoo

The curl makes it so beautiful. Impeccable technique, the ball spins perfectly horizontal, and curls by the right amount.

ShoulderChip

Juninho is a true legend,
I wish this thread wasn't so focused on his freekicks, ah a a shame.


It is silly to compare Ronaldo to him, just because he plays for United.

eirebhoy

Forgot about Ronnie. He just happens to be in teams with many world class free kick takers so has to share them.

Still think Naka's against Man Utd is the best ever and I'm surprise that relatively few neutrals mention it. The distance, the accuracy, the fact that van der Sar KNEW where he was aiming, and the pressure of being 5 minutes away from hitting your team into the CL last 16 for the first time.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dHjV3YqSqeU

Mitch Connor

ShoulderChip wrote: »

Juninho is a true legend,
I wish this thread wasn't so focused on his freekicks, ah a a shame.


It is silly to compare Ronaldo to him, just because he plays for United.

its silly that people take the comparison at all seriously and get at all worked up over it, considering any positive references to him have been obviously jokes for anyone paying attention.

redout

In Ronaldo's last 3 games it must be more than half his free-kicks have crashed into the wall.

eZe^

redout wrote: »

In Ronaldo's last 3 seasons it must be more than half his free-kicks have crashed into the wall.

Fixed that for ya.

Bubs101

Screw Ronaldo, smashing it and forcing the wall to duck is the best technique. Ibra's 124 km/h free is unreal.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tH6O22zhh80

Mitch Connor

redout wrote: »

In Ronaldo's last 3 games it must be more than half his free-kicks have crashed into the wall.

Yeah - so FREAKING WHAT! NO ONE IS ACTUALLY SAYING HE IS THE BEST FREE TAKER IN THE WORLD. WE WERE JOKING.

OK

JOKING.

HAVE I MADE IT OBVIOUS ENOUGH FOR THOSE IN THE BACK?

I'd quote it as "Ronaldo is the 1st, 2nd and 3rd best free taker in the world", joked Dave but it seems a number of people on this forum wouldn't get that either.

AGAIN, WE HAVE BEEN JOKING ABOUT RONALDO.

ShoulderChip

Bubs101 wrote: »

Screw Ronaldo, smashing it and forcing the wall to duck is the best technique. Ibra's 124 km/h free is unreal.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tH6O22zhh80

wow that is indeed unreal,
wish he could do it more often.

Frisbee

eirebhoy wrote: »

Still think Naka's against Man Utd is the best ever and I'm surprise that relatively few neutrals mention it. The distance, the accuracy, the fact that van der Sar KNEW where he was aiming, and the pressure of being 5 minutes away from hitting your team into the CL last 16 for the first time.

+1, an absolute Dinger

redout

Mitch Connor wrote: »

If hit correct, any freekick is unsavable. If the keeper saves it, you haven't hit it perfectly.

.

I have to disagree with you there. A free kick can be hit perfect and still saved, all depends on which way it has been hit. The Beckham analysis stated that if a keeper or defender got to the ball and if kicked correct they could still not prevent it going in. If the keeper got a hand or defender a head it would still end up going backwards into the net (only if kicked in his unique way) if he made a bollix of it then absolutly could be saved. They got some university professor's to work it out. There must be a clip of it somewhere. I will have a look on youtube and post it if I find it.

Frisbee

redout wrote: »

I have to disagree with you there. A free kick can be hit perfect and still saved, all depends on which way it has been hit. The Beckham analysis stated that if a keeper or defender got to the ball and if kicked correct they could still not prevent it going in. If the keeper got a hand or defender a head it would still end up going backwards into the net (only if kicked in his unique way) if he made a bollix of it then absolutly could be saved. They got some university professor's to work it out. There must be a clip of it somewhere. I will have a look on youtube and post it if I find it.

I'm assuming you mean the keeper got one hand to it or the defender threw a knee or his head at it and it glanced off yeah?

Mitch Connor

It is amazing how often David got them on target without hitting them right so, cause keepers kept the ball out plenty of times.

JPA

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

I reckon I'd have him for something a long way out; and Del Piero for the around the box ones where you need it up and down.

Best free kick taker in the world though? Who knows, probably not. The best in the world could be someone you've never heard of who has a much higher efficiency rate than the guys at the top of the game. Juninhio and Del Piero score some screamers, sure, but how many do they miss? I wish stats like that were kept.

EDIT: Also, Beckham is probably still better than the above two from dead balls.

He is without doubt the world's best free kick taker and the best since Siniša Mihajlović.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Curb0StjUGo

redout

Mitch Connor wrote: »

It is amazing how often David got them on target without hitting them right so, cause keepers kept the ball out plenty of times.

Look pal I am just telling you what I saw on MOTD. I am sure I could not have been the only one to have seen it. Do you think I am making this up ? Of course keepers saved plenty of them, more than he scored obviously. Not a player in the world could say different.

Anyway on a different not I found this on youtube. Even further out than the wimbledon one in 95. Amazing precision to put it in the centre of the goal from that distance.

http://ie.youtube.com/watch?v=Fgqs1_Wa0V8

Mitch Connor

redout wrote: »

Look pal I am just telling you what I saw on MOTD. I am sure I could not have been the only one to have seen it. Do you think I am making this up ? Of course keepers saved plenty of them, more than he scored obviously. Not a player in the world could say different.

Anyway on a different not I found this on youtibe. Even further out than the wimbledon one in 95.

http://ie.youtube.com/watch?v=qgjWZXnTn9A

i'm not saying you have made it up - i just reckon it is complete crap.

mormank

juninho is the bet all round free kick taker in the world imo. he can score from any from the edge of the box to almost the half way line. no other free kick taker has this ability. ever hear the commentator sayin that this free kick is bckham territory or del piero or whoever?? well juninho's 'territory from fre kicks is much larger than anyone else's, he is a danger from more areas than anyone else, bar maybe carlos in his heyday

mormank

eirebhoy wrote: »

Forgot about Ronnie. He just happens to be in teams with many world class free kick takers so has to share them.

Still think Naka's against Man Utd is the best ever and I'm surprise that relatively few neutrals mention it. The distance, the accuracy, the fact that van der Sar KNEW where he was aiming, and the pressure of being 5 minutes away from hitting your team into the CL last 16 for the first time.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dHjV3YqSqeU

#drool#

never saw this before. when was it taken?? wow what a free kick, high pressure situation too of course

iregk

In the world at the moment I'd probably say it would be Juninho Per.... Far too many of Ronaldo's hit the wall and go way off target. Its the ones he scores that sky hype up and the fans take note of. Similar to Beckham in a way, the match against Greece where "that free kick" was taken, they'd have you believe it was his first touch of the game. It was his 9th free kick from a similar spot so he had 8 to size it up before scoring that one. Kind of like Roberto Carlos, he was regarded as a free kick expert but I'd say about 1 in 20 actually hit the target.

I'd love to see a stat that shows shots take from free kicks to hitting the target / scoring etc... From my personal view JP is the best at the moment. The all time greats for me in this area were Mihalovic and Boniek.

That said the best free kick I've personally ever seen was Stefan Effenberg in the CL where he curled it from a tight angle to take the keeper at the inside post. Can't remember who it was against but that was a cracker.

Dave!

Naka's was great alright, but Beckham has scored waaaaayyy too many beauts, one of which (take your pick) I would probably consider the best ever.

redout

There is a video on youtube which claims to have every Beckham free-kick. It has a total of 43 but I beleive he has about 50 as this video is over a year old and has no LA Galaxy goals which I know he has certainly scored about half a dozen free-kicks for them. All in all 50 goals from free-kicks is phenomenal and his record is near identical to Juninho Pernambuco who last night the BBC said also had about 50. Both are also the same age. One thing is for certain and that is their styles are different but both men seem to have perfected the art.

http://ie.youtube.com/watch?v=adYgHunQEl0

Bubs101

Just out of interest, could any La Liga experts (perfect oppurtunity to gain some support in the polls eZe) comment on Roberto Carlos' record. He's obviously scored one of the more famous free kicks but how prolific is he?

LuckyLloyd

JPA wrote: »

He is without doubt the world's best free kick taker and the best since Siniša Mihajlović.

lol, of course there is doubt in the absence of properly maintained efficiency statistics (goals per attempt / context of successful attempts).

Here's another way of looking at this whole thing anyway:

- Juninho has professional appearances to his name since 1991;
- It is difficult to ascertain exactly how many games he has played in all competitions, but I'll round down an estimate to 600;
- in which he has scored 50 freekicks;
- which means he scores one every 12 appearances;
- when he may average three attempts (or more) within his range per game;
- so probably not too far off an efficiency rating of 1 every 36 attempts;

So on the whole, his freekicks are an irrelevant threat. No point in worrying about them, and fouling to break down dangerous attacks within his range is still the right thing to do for defenders.

Direct Freekicks are exciting and make for great goals when they go in. But ultimately, they amount to an aspect of the game that is relatively less significant than people assume.

fullstop

Bubs101 wrote: »

Just out of interest, could any La Liga experts (perfect oppurtunity to gain some support in the polls eZe) comment on Roberto Carlos' record. He's obviously scored one of the more famous free kicks but how prolific is he?

His record is dreadful. Scored the odd cracker, but 99.9% of them hit the wall or someone else before getting near the goal

redout

fullstop wrote: »

His record is dreadful. Scored the odd cracker, but 99.9% of them hit the wall or someone else before getting near the goal

2nd that but not the 99.9% part. He did score a few free-kicks but he was by no means prolific. He was overhyped after scoring that amazing free-kick in Le tournoi against France in 97.

yahoo_moe

Always found the Roberto Carlos thing equally hilarious and fascinating - bar the goal against France, I genuinely don't think I've seen him score another free-kick and I must have watched him in 100 games at this stage.

When he played against Arsenal at the Emirates a month or so ago, I'd say he pinged at least 4 free-kicks into the stands - and whatever about a mediocre Fenerbahce side, I could never understand how he managed to get ahead of Figo, Raul, Zidane, etc. (even Beckham sometimes) in the Madrid team.

He must've had a great record in training or something.

eZe^

Roberto Carlos was very inefficient at free kicks, quite like Ronaldo. He scored about one free kick a season on average, abut to be fair, how many wingbacks have a goal scoring record like Roberto, something like 50 goals in 400 games for Madrid. His free kicks were usually terrible though, but at least if he hit the wall, that player would be knocked unconscious for the rest of the game. :pac:

HalloweenJack

Juninho is great at striking the ball. He can get most of his long-range frees on target and he also gets in a lot of long range shots.

He clearly knows how to hit a ball with accuracy and pace. It's a fine skill.