Local Elections 2009

Sully

Stan Nangle wrote: »

Eh?

Care to give us a like for instance?

I dont have as big a gripe with the Greens as some do, I just think they were foolish to go into government with FF and have been under their thumb. I do believe that, like other green members, they have back tracked on some of what they said during election campaigns.

Here is one; re: government jet;
http://www.finegael.ie/news/index.cfm/type/details/nkey/37090
http://www.independent.ie/national-news/greens-row-back-to-throttle-jet-debate-1635179.html

There was the whole fundraising tent;
http://www.independent.ie/national-news/green-party-softens-its-opposition-to-fianna-fails-fundraising-tent-at-races-1048794.html

As mentioned, Greens refusing to go into government with FF but then doing so (I see your reasons explained and I understand it was agreed with members - 86% I think).

There were some education issues, but I think they have been mentioned.

As I said, no major problems with Green. Judging by opinion polls, more people are annoyed with FF and seem to be ignoring the greens. I would be interested to know would any other party (FG/Labour only apply) go into government with them in the future - id assume so. Id have no issues with it, I would like them having a more active role in government.

Btw, have Labour offically refused to go into government with FF? I knew they had been dodging the question, but I am curious have they said anything about it recently and judging by your comment they have.

As for FG not getting into government - the party certinally pulled itself up from a very low point to being close to getting that grasp. FF managed to scrape a government together (falling apart over the last while) and get back in. Id assume FG will do well in locals, as will Labour and Independents. Greens probably wont see much of a change. Isnt it the first time in the history of the state FG have been so far ahead, leading the polls, of FF? I know people comment on Enda, but he cant be that bad if his party has done so well since he came on as leader.

At least in Tramore.. I dont know if we will see an increase in Independents (mainly because there only Independent due to not getting the FF vote), but id say FG/Labour will do better and I think your in with a very good chance of getting elected. For Sinn Fein candidates... I am not so sure if Tramore has a big SF base.

Stan Nangle

Sully wrote: »

I dont have as big a gripe with the Greens as some do, I just think they were foolish to go into government with FF and have been under their thumb. I do believe that, like other green members, they have back tracked on some of what they said during election campaigns.

If the Greens hadn't gone in Labour were bucking at the traces to get in.

Fianna Fáil had the numbers to form a Government, Fine Gael didn't.

Fine Gael should have, but they dropped the ball.



I make no apologies for the decision the Greens made after the Election, and I'll give you just three (of many) reasons why.

1) Government policy is now to have 40% of energy from renewables by 2020. This is absolutely critical for us going forward. We have a 90% dependency on imported energy sources, our competitors have, on average, a 50% dependency. Oil, Gas and Coal prices are going to soar in the next couple of years, and we will have no hope of being competitive unless we pull out fingers out and start addressing this problem.

2) The Energy Efficiency of Buildings was historically based on what was best for Roadstone (a major contributor to Fianna Fáil). Now it is based on making sure we achieve the highest possible standards. This was done within weeks of the Greens coming into Government. The Government is also spending over €100 million in 2009-2010 on retrofitting houses with appropriate levels of insulation. If we don't do this now, people will have very expensive heating bills in a couple of years time.

3) eVoting is gone. I lobbied TDs, Councillors and Returning Officers on this back in 2003/2004. I debated with Government Ministers on radio and face to face. I attended Joint Oireachtas Committee meetings on the topic. I handed out leaflets outside the launch at the Mansion House in Dublin, and City Hall in Waterford, warning of the problems with these machines. I wrote the Green Party submission to the Commission on Electronic Voting. If John Gormley was not Minister for the Environment today there would still be a risk of these machines being used - and these machines would have guaranteed a permanent Fianna Fáil majority (according to one FF TD at a Committee hearing.

Here is one; re: government jet;
http://www.finegael.ie/news/index.cfm/type/details/nkey/37090
http://www.independent.ie/national-news/greens-row-back-to-throttle-jet-debate-1635179.html

Does Fine Gael advocate the scrapping of the Government Jet?

There was the whole fundraising tent;
http://www.independent.ie/national-news/green-party-softens-its-opposition-to-fianna-fails-fundraising-tent-at-races-1048794.html

The Galway Tent is gone.

As I said, no major problems with Green. Judging by opinion polls, more people are annoyed with FF and seem to be ignoring the greens. I would be interested to know would any other party (FG/Labour only apply) go into government with them in the future - id assume so. Id have no issues with it, I would like them having a more active role in government.

Why would FG or Lab not go in with the Greens? There are no major irreconcileable policy differences. FG/Lab are identical to Fianna Fáil on most policy issues.

Btw, have Labour offically refused to go into government with FF? I knew they had been dodging the question, but I am curious have they said anything about it recently and judging by your comment they have.

The last position I heard was that they want Fianna Fáil out, but they won't refuse to go in with them. Gilmore had the audience in stitches on Questions and Answers a few weeks ago the way he tried to avoid answering the question "We want them out" was all he kept saying.

Gilmore wants to be Taoiseach (God help us), and his best chance of doing this is by going in with a weakened Fianna Fáil.

Sully

Stan Nangle wrote: »

If the Greens hadn't gone in Labour were bucking at the traces to get in.

Fianna Fáil had the numbers to form a Government, Fine Gael didn't.

Fine Gael should have, but they dropped the ball.

I think you will find there was a lot more people happy with FF at the time so it would have been a tough job. FG did indeed drop the ball and some of their campaign ideas can be questionable. But thats a mute point at this stage - it will say it all if they dont get in at the next general election.

I make no apologies for the decision the Greens made after the Election, and I'll give you just three (of many) reasons why.

1) Government policy is now to have 40% of energy from renewables by 2020. This is absolutely critical for us going forward. We have a 90% dependency on imported energy sources, our competitors have, on average, a 50% dependency. Oil, Gas and Coal prices are going to soar in the next couple of years, and we will have no hope of being competitive unless we pull out fingers out and start addressing this problem.

2) The Energy Efficiency of Buildings was historically based on what was best for Roadstone (a major contributor to Fianna Fáil). Now it is based on making sure we achieve the highest possible standards. This was done within weeks of the Greens coming into Government. The Government is also spending over €100 million in 2009-2010 on retrofitting houses with appropriate levels of insulation. If we don't do this now, people will have very expensive heating bills in a couple of years time.

3) eVoting is gone. I lobbied TDs, Councillors and Returning Officers on this back in 2003/2004. I debated with Government Ministers on radio and face to face. I attended Joint Oireachtas Committee meetings on the topic. I handed out leaflets outside the launch at the Mansion House in Dublin, and City Hall in Waterford, warning of the problems with these machines. I wrote the Green Party submission to the Commission on Electronic Voting. If John Gormley was not Minister for the Environment today there would still be a risk of these machines being used - and these machines would have guaranteed a permanent Fianna Fáil majority (according to one FF TD at a Committee hearing.

Its great to see the Greens in, dont get me wrong, but while they had a small impact on how the country is run (better then nothing) they seem to be sacrificing a lot and being the governments lap dog to have that small bit of power. As for eVoting - are the Greens claiming responsibility for the scrapping of these?

Does Fine Gael advocate the scrapping of the Government Jet?

Dodging my point! The question isnt about the use of the jet, its about how the Greens lied.

The Galway Tent is gone.

I think Brian Cowen did this to try improve the FF image which had been effected by the Bertie Ahern era. Not sure the Greens had much part in that, and it also ignores the point I raised about the Greens going back on their word.

The last position I heard was that they want Fianna Fáil out, but they won't refuse to go in with them. Gilmore had the audience in stitches on Questions and Answers a few weeks ago the way he tried to avoid answering the question "We want them out" was all he kept saying.

I recall that, and also Joan Burton on Vincent Brown. Actually, Joan was terrible before the budget with Vincent. Refused to answer what they would do if in power to help the country, not even a small hint. Just ignoring the questions.

Gilmore wants to be Taoiseach (God help us), and his best chance of doing this is by going in with a weakened Fianna Fáil.

People worry about Kenny! Not a huge fan of Gilmore myself.

Sully

Fine Gael candidate Mark Kennedy will no longer be running for the local elections in Tramore this year, which is unfortuante. The party are now seeking another candidate.

Sully

I believe this is the latest list.. Not sure if I am missing any, am I Stan? Im not sure who is running for county.

Tramore Town Council::

For FG:
Eleanor Hickey
Cllr Ann Marie Power
Cllr Lola O’Sullivan.

For SF:
Mr. Declan Clune

For Greens:
Stan Nangle

For FF:
Cllr Ben Gavin
Gina Hutchinson
Joe O'Shea

For Labour:
Cllr O`Callaghan (not confirmed, but assumed)

Independent:
Cllr James Mccartan
Cllr Joe Conway
Cllr Blaise Hannigan (ex FF)
Pat Finnerty (ex FF)

One addition being Joe O'Shea running for FF, a new candidate and local businessman. Mark Kennedy has had to step aside from running for the elections this time.

This is an interesting article regarding the recent FF candidates dropping to Independents in Tramoree

The pre-election temperature has cranked up in Tramore with suggestions that two ex-Fianna Fail candidates seeking County and Town Council seats as Independents would jump back on board the party bus if successful.

Blaise Hannigan and Pat Finnerty have been forced to vehemently deny the idea, both insisting they are now Independents for life.

It was Ann Marie Power (FG), a Town Council colleague of Blaise Hannigan, who issued a statement challenging them to confirm their positions. She maintained that on the canvass trail she encountered several of the electorate who were convinced they were merely using the Independent tag as a temporary flag of convenience and if elected would have themselves reinstated as FFrs.

She felt they were confusing people and pinpointed a “creeping scepticism” about the Fianna Fail strategy, with a multiplicity of its councillors nationally deciding to run as Independents.

Both Cllr Power and fellow Town Council member Joe Conway (Ind) accuse Blaise Hannigan and Pat Finnerty of having jumped ship, although at the same time Cllr Conway insisted that he respect all candidates and it was his policy not to publicly criticise anyone who had the courage to stand.

Pressure

Cllr Hannigan is adamant he is now Independent for the rest of his days. Disappointed by the party’s failure to nominate him for the County elections, in which he stood unsuccessfully last time, he decided to go it alone and said the response on the doorsteps had been hugely encouraging. He said lots of people were committing to him who would not have done so had he been representing Fianna Fail.

He said that if Cllrs Power or Conway were casting aspersions on any other candidates then they were displaying a lack of respect and must feel under pressure themselves.

“I respect every candidate who has the guts to stand, irrespective of which party they represent, or none”, he stated.

Still friends

Pat Finnerty responded similarly to rejection by the party. He too said he would now be Independent for life, although he remained on friendly terms with people from all parties and none. “I will talk to anybody”, he said, “but I will not be re-joining Fianna Fail no matter what”.

He feels he has a better chance of election as an Independent, citing pledges of backing from traditional FF voters who said they would not support the party again on account of the current economic circumstances.

Mr Finnerty invites anyone interested to check out his profile on mycandidate.ie.

Source: http://www.munster-express.ie/local-news/election-temperature-on-the-rise/

This was discussed on WLRFM recently where Ann-Marie suggested Cllr Hannigan had previously ran with Labour, a claim he later denied. She also said that people on the door had expressed concern about this.

Stan Nangle

As many of you know, the Green Party do not take Corporate Donations as we believe this is a major factor in many of the crazy decisions taken by politicians from the three main Parties over the years.

I am funding my campaign from personal resources, and the proceeds of fundraisers, such as Church Gate collections and a Table Quiz which I am holding at the Grand Hotel on Thursday night at 8pm.

Teams of four, €5 per head. Spot prizes and all the works.

Hope to see you there.

Stan:

scout353

Now hearing that Ben Gavin is not running while former councillor Eddie Walsh is back in the frame and has declared his intention to run this time again.

This would have the list looking like this..

Tramore Town Council::

For FG:
Eleanor Hickey
Cllr Ann Marie Power
Cllr Lola O’Sullivan.

For SF:
Mr. Declan Clune

For Greens:
Stan Nangle

For FF:
Cllr Ben Gavin
Gina Hutchinson
Joe O'Shea

For Labour:
Cllr O`Callaghan (not confirmed, but assumed)

Independent:
Cllr James Mccartan
Cllr Joe Conway
Cllr Blaise Hannigan (ex FF)
Pat Finnerty (ex FF)
Eddie Walsh

So that's 13 for nine seats at the moment so that begs the question who will lose out....

Here is my prediction of the nine to win...

Fine Gael
Ann Marie Power
Lola O Sullivan

Labour
Paddy O Callaghan

Fianna Fail
Joe O Shea
Gina Hutchinson

Greens
Stan Nangle

Independent
Joe Conway
James McCartan
Blaise Hannigan

That would leave an interesting scenario in the pacts for Mayor - could you have a Fianna Fail/Fine Gael pact or would one of these court the independents!!

It is going to be very interesting - now if Eddie Walsh was to poll well that could oust Joe O Shea and then then Independents would have control - Eddie Walsh for Mayor - wonders would never cease!

Sully

Cant see the Indepedents doing that well (bar Joe Conway). James Mcartan was never elected by the people, and the other two are ex-FF candidates who failed to get a nomination. James could do very well this time around, who knows. Will people see through this or see the other two as FF candidates?

Fine Gael and Labour always do well in the local elections and considering their tipped to do well again, I cant see any speculation there. The new candidate could easily slip in and possibly even top the poll as she is a fresh new candidate. New faces and all.

Joe O'Shea is a local businessman and is well liked, so should do pretty well. People might overlook him running for FF.

Stan Nangle brings a whole different prespective onto the table, but its unkown how being Green could effect the voting pattern. His election campaign has done well and he shows as a decent candidate, whos to say he wont do well this time around.

Speaking of Ben Gavin... he hasnt canvassed/leaflet dropped at all down in my area and iv heard nothing about him at all this year.

Gulamugas

ah scout but the nominations have not closed yet, still 8/9 days before we have a full sheet.Talk about another possible 2 independent candidates.
Understand that Fine Gael are to announce a further 2 candidates today(thursday). Their strategy is to run 5 candidates to win 4 seats, dont forget they had just over 3 quotas last time round. So if they were to get their 4 seats then I am sure P. O' Callaghan would oblige if he managed to get there before Joe Conway but my prediction, at the moment, would be

Fine Gael
Ann Marie
Lola
Eleanor

Fianna Fail
Gina

Labour
Paddy

Greens
Stan

Independent
Joe
James
Blaise

My question is who tops the poll?

Anne Marie did last time but doubt if she will this time round. Her popularity would have waned a bit. My money would be on Joe Conway. He has pressed all the right buttons and made more of his year as Mayor than any of the others.

Sully

Didnt Lola top the poll the election before Ann-Marie? So.. if the trend continues.. it could be Eleanor.

Id put my money on one of the FG candidates or Joe Conway to top the poll. Joe should get in no problem but he doesnt have the party power behind him which might prevent him from topping the poll.

Gulamugas

I think that that is probably his greatest strength. He has to go to each door himself and the electorate get to meet him, not like some of the party people who drop "sorry i missed you" leaflets in your letter box.

Sully

Gulamugas wrote: »

I think that that is probably his greatest strength. He has to go to each door himself and the electorate get to meet him, not like some of the party people who drop "sorry i missed you" leaflets in your letter box.

To be fair, Lola O'Sullivan is one of the candidates that does just that. Other candidates are going around in groups, rather then on their own with an assistant. Its tough trying to do every house in your ward/town on your own where others get it done quicker in groups. Its the right way to do it, but not the most popular. Im not sure about Lola, but I think Eleanor Hickey did it on her own also. As did James and Joe, I believe.

The "Sorry I missed you" is very common, with some just leaving in their leaflet rather then a note. Its impossible for them to make a note of who wasnt home when they called, and re-visit. If your getting the "Sorry I missed you" card - the candidate knocked, waited and got no reply.

Jim_Are_Great

I think we can expect to hear, quite soon, that Fine Gael have an 18 year old leaving cert student running. Seriously. I wish I had a source for this, but it's hard to find links for local stuff. I imagine it'll be in the next Munster or News and Star, though.

Sully

Jim_Are_Great wrote: »

I think we can expect to hear, quite soon, that Fine Gael have an 18 year old leaving cert student running. Seriously. I wish I had a source for this, but it's hard to find links for local stuff. I imagine it'll be in the next Munster or News and Star, though.

At the moment, its speculation. It hasnt been confirmed. There are talks about two new candidates for FG in Tramore, one being the LC Student. Whether it will happen remains to be seen. Thats about as much can be said for the moment.

Gulamugas

get this. 18 year old running for fine Gael was canvassing last week for his cousin - blaise hannigan!
Another woman to be announced this afternoon for fine Gael
Labour wanted to run a girl maxims keoghan but paddy was having none of it!

Sully

Gulamugas wrote: »

get this. 18 year old running for fine Gael was canvassing last week for his cousin - blaise hannigan!

lol ya I know, odd alright. Wonder how he feels? More to the point, who/what made this young chap go into politics? Consider the drastic effect it will have on him.

I assume he is a CBS student.. which means he is going up against one of the teachers, Ann-Marie Power?

Another woman to be announced this afternoon for fine Gael
Labour wanted to run a girl maxims keoghan but paddy was having none of it!

Indeed, the labour candidate is being speculated upon as running for FG now.

Gulamugas

Not official but yes, Martina to run for F.G. The leaving cert student is Tommy ?, father has a driving school and they live in Newtown Glen or whatever that place is called.

Sully

Gulamugas wrote: »

Not official but yes, Martina to run for F.G. The leaving cert student is Tommy ?, father has a driving school and they live in Newtown Glen or whatever that place is called.

Id imagine when/if this publicly gets out, it could backfire on them both.

Gulamugas

And sure how would that kinda stuff get out? who'd do that?
Certainly my source wouldnt!

Sully

Gulamugas wrote: »

And sure how would that kinda stuff get out? who'd do that?
Certainly my source wouldnt!

Well local media often cheery pick whats said on these forums, some local candidates havepublicly confronted other candidates on issues and this could be one, also the chap will be known to have canvassed for Blaise/related to Blaise.

Jim_Are_Great

Surely if he's a LC student, there's a decent chance he'll be off to college next year. How's that going to affect his ability as a local representative? I'm still half waiting for the party to confirm that it's all a joke.

Sully

Jim_Are_Great wrote: »

Surely if he's a LC student, there's a decent chance he'll be off to college next year. How's that going to affect his ability as a local representative? I'm still half waiting for the party to confirm that it's all a joke.

I think this was confirmed tonight, I couldn't hear the person very well who was explaining. As for college... I assume he is aiming for WIT or not going to college at all?

Jim_Are_Great

Sully wrote: »

I assume he is aiming for WIT or not going to college at all?

Hopefully. It'd be crazy otherwise. Hope he isn't jeopardizing his choices based on this seat, which I'd say he'd be hard-pressed to win. It seems like a party publicity stunt, which isn't fair to pull on a kid.

Sully

Jim_Are_Great wrote: »

Hopefully. It'd be crazy otherwise. Hope he isn't jeopardizing his choices based on this seat, which I'd say he'd be hard-pressed to win. It seems like a party publicity stunt, which isn't fair to pull on a kid.

Doubt thats the reason. Besides, the older candidates would probably prefer to have a chap who is hardly known and is far to young for the position to be running, making it easier for them to regain their seat. There are a lot of factors which are going to effect him for the position.

Shamefully, it smacks of desperation otherwise to be trying to find any candidate to run for them.

Gulamugas

The lad is being used.They know that anne marie, lola and eleanor are electable but they are not sure that the other candidate will make it so the lad is brought in as a sweeoer to gather those young votes that would otherwise go elsewhere and hope that they will tramsfer to ensure the election of the 4th candidate. Thats the party machine working at its best, the poor lad doesnt realise he is electoral fodder and even if his uncle did try to explain it to him he probably wouldnt listen a he would think its sour grapes!

Sully

Gulamugas wrote: »

The lad is being used.They know that anne marie, lola and eleanor are electable but they are not sure that the other candidate will make it so the lad is brought in as a sweeoer to gather those young votes that would otherwise go elsewhere and hope that they will tramsfer to ensure the election of the 4th candidate. Thats the party machine working at its best, the poor lad doesnt realise he is electoral fodder and even if his uncle did try to explain it to him he probably wouldnt listen a he would think its sour grapes!

I was told that the other candidate is very confident of getting elected, which would be one reason why Labour accepted that she was not to run in Tramore. But yes, he will get the school leavers vote id imagine. Will probably get them out to vote.

Ann-marie is sending out letters (oddly, I got one) offering people a "text reminder service" to head out and vote on the day. Is this a new thing?

Gulamugas

A touch of the Obama campaign! Ok so there you are on election day and theres all the posters and talk on the radio and fellows hanging around schools at a legal distance and the kids have no school and you think whats on today...beep beep...text message..oh thanks anne marie, i nearly forgot! Thats a great service what would we do without it. Good idea though she can be sending you a text every week telling you how she is doing I wonder is she on tweeter or whatever its called. Go Anne Marie, you can do it

Sully

Gulamugas wrote: »

A touch of the Obama campaign! Ok so there you are on election day and theres all the posters and talk on the radio and fellows hanging around schools at a legal distance and the kids have no school and you think whats on today...beep beep...text message..oh thanks anne marie, i nearly forgot! Thats a great service what would we do without it. Good idea though she can be sending you a text every week telling you how she is doing I wonder is she on tweeter or whatever its called. Go Anne Marie, you can do it

Odd sending me the letter, as I dont fall into any of the above catagories nor does anybody I know. I would have assumed that she know that I wont forget to vote! Not a bad idea for those who may actually forget or have little interest in politics.

The Obama campaign style seems a little OTT for a local election. I can see it being used in the next general a lot though - the twitter and the like. FF are the only party to actually take from what Obama did and have hired a specialist company to help them out with that side of things.

I wonder how Sinn Fein will do.. the above poll suggests a lot of folk on this forum are considering them, so I wonder will the community as a whole do likewise?

Gulamugas

Sully wrote: »

Odd sending me the letter, as I dont fall into any of the above catagories nor does anybody I know. I would have assumed that she know that I wont forget to vote! Not a bad idea for those who may actually forget or have little interest in politics.

The Obama campaign style seems a little OTT for a local election. I can see it being used in the next general a lot though - the twitter and the like. FF are the only party to actually take from what Obama did and have hired a specialist company to help them out with that side of things.

I wonder how Sinn Fein will do.. the above poll suggests a lot of folk on this forum are considering them, so I wonder will the community as a whole do likewise?

Basically its just a way of sending you as many text messages urging you to vote for her between now and polling day and because you have given her your number she cant be accused of sending unsolicited text messages. You can see John Deasy's fingerprints all over her campaign!


An independent poll carried out over the weekend would say that Eddie Walsh entry into the race would not be good news for the shinners it shows both clune and walsh very close to the bottom of the pile and neither of them capable of helping the other in terms of transfers and anyway Tramore is not a Shinner town and the candidate is not well known.

Wasnt a chap called John Mc Donald who lives in Florence place rumoured at one stage to be running as an independent? Anyone hear anything boiut that?? and what about Ted O Keefffe he always makes a late entry into the contest

Sully

Gulamugas wrote: »

Basically its just a way of sending you as many text messages urging you to vote for her between now and polling day and because you have given her your number she cant be accused of sending unsolicited text messages. You can see John Deasy's fingerprints all over her campaign!


An independent poll carried out over the weekend would say that Eddie Walsh entry into the race would not be good news for the shinners it shows both clune and walsh very close to the bottom of the pile and neither of them capable of helping the other in terms of transfers and anyway Tramore is not a Shinner town and the candidate is not well known.

Wasnt a chap called John Mc Donald who lives in Florence place rumoured at one stage to be running as an independent? Anyone hear anything boiut that?? and what about Ted O Keefffe he always makes a late entry into the contest

Where are the poll results? Are they publicly available? The name doesnt ring any bells but that Ted chap, is he in newtown or am I mixing him up?

Iv been told its confirmed Ben Gavin has set aside, wonder will that benefit/effect the FF votes in the town? None of the older FF candidates are running anymore, we have instead two new candidates.