An Bord "Snip"

mike65

Its back! Twenty years after its last outing when Mac the Knife with the backing of CJH (after his road to Damascus conversion) and Alan Dukes sought to bring the states finances back from the brink of meltdown Bord Snip returns with UCD economist Colm McCarthy at the helm.

McCarthy is frequent pundit and one who has long lamented the failure of the state to run itself in an efficent cost effective fashion so I'd be quite hopeful that he'll do whats expected of him but only if he gets the chance.
That said, such is the momentum developing behind the need to reform I think the Trade Unions will be a bit more complient than expected.

Now, what should be 'Snipped'?

Mike

spadder

here's my suggestions:

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055427496

maybe a merge

The_Minister

I hope they do what was suggested in a recent report and create a common pool of workers between the HSE and the rest of the civil service, allowing them to transfer people from the HSE to other departments.

Fratton Fred

Some suggestions from Shane Ross of the Indo before the last budget:

http://www.independent.ie/opinion/columnists/shane-ross/milk-the-sacred-cows-brian-1471054.html

Brian could dismantle Peter Cassells' ridiculous National Centre for Partnership and Performance; he could disband the National Economic and Social Council; he could abolish the National Economic and Social Forum; he could deliver the kiss of death to the National Economic and Social Development Office -- all of them stillborn infants of the lavish social partnership marriage.

jmayo

I heard somewhere that it is gonna be made up of some top ex civil servants who obviously may not offend their ex colleagues.
Also that they will report in 18 months or some ridiculous timeframe.
Perhaps someone can correct me on this ?
Again is the government being seen to be doing something ?

corkfella

shane ross did say it would take them 18 monthes to report back which is so ridiculous, have the government ever heard of something happening now, 3 monthes should be plenty of time to get a handle on the fu**ers as a biffo might say.

I wouldn't hold my breath about this board, its full of ex civil-servants. Cowen is so out of touch with the electorate, backing molloy yesterday pretty much took the biscuit in my opinion. The other thing Ross mentioned that if this drawn out process takes 18 monthes it will only be 18 monthes before the next (so-far) scheduled election so they are hardly going to cut back that much based on their past track record. My only hope is if the government continue in the hapless way they are going they will be brought down some time next year and FF will be decimated in the election.

spadder

corkfella wrote: »

backing molloy yesterday pretty much took the biscuit in my opinion. .

Dan Boyle today backing Cowen for backing Malloy takes the biscuit.

dresden8

One of the big questions is Dublin vs Decentralised posts.

Will they feck everthing up entirely to save their much beloved decentralisation.

genericgoon

jmayo wrote: »

I heard somewhere that it is gonna be made up of some top ex civil servants who obviously may not offend their ex colleagues.
Also that they will report in 18 months or some ridiculous timeframe.
Perhaps someone can correct me on this ?
Again is the government being seen to be doing something ?

Tbh, I wouldn't expect a full and extensive audit of the entire Civil Service to be a matter which can be resolved in a couple of months. In theory, (although knowing this Government, the objective will be forgotten for political reasons) this should be a more longterm initiative which will take time to mature and more obvious areas for pruning shall be undertaken in the mean time.

However, once again, the Government shall simply use this as an excuse to put any further blatantly necessary but politically unsound moves on ice. So nice idea in theory but the Government will surely just use it as cover for the next year and then ignore most of what it has to say when it finally does come to fruition. God I hate the Irish politics (even if its just slightly worse than many the shortcomings of many other modern western states' democracies)

cyclopath2001

dresden8 wrote: »

One of the big questions is Dublin vs Decentralised posts.
...Will they feck everthing up entirely to save their much beloved decentralisation.

Its about the election, stupid.

The Bórd will find lots of 'redundancy' in Dublin offices and shift the functions to marginal contituences which have been promised 'decentralised' jobs.

Other thing will be that idealistic, hard-working specialist junior civil service staff with their eye on vacant promotional posts will find them filled over their heads by redundant public service middle managers with no relevant skills or experience.

Mental Mickey

Will FAS be ripped apart as part of the "restructuring" programme?

NewDubliner

Certainly, Birr is still waiting.

jmayo

Jeeze I forgot about that Fás for Birr as part of the grand plan.
It would have been handy for Molloy if he had lasted :rolleyes:

spadder

jmayo wrote: »

Jeeze I forgot about that Fás for Birr as part of the grand plan.
It would have been handy for Molloy if he had lasted :rolleyes:

It's all part of his grand plan. NASA are going to build a brand new space centre in Birr, staffed by Fas trained astronauts powered by a peat fired fision reactor.

jmayo

spadder wrote: »

It's all part of his grand plan. NASA are going to build a brand new space centre in Birr, staffed by Fas trained astronauts powered by a peat fired fision reactor.

I can just see it Biffo in Space
Just need a big space suit for himself andhis trusty lieutenant Harney.

nesf

corkfella wrote: »

3 monthes should be plenty of time to get a handle on the fu**ers as a biffo might say.

I think that you are vastly underestimating the scope and depth of the issue if you think it could be done in 3 months. 18 months gives time to do it properly, we want a long term solution here not a quick fix. You also have to include the time it will take to bring the unions etc on side. They will be more compliant given the public mood but if you expect them to accept major job losses without complex and lengthy negotiation then you're being quite naive.

jmayo

nesf wrote: »

I think that you are vastly underestimating the scope and depth of the issue if you think it could be done in 3 months. 18 months gives time to do it properly, we want a long term solution here not a quick fix. You also have to include the time it will take to bring the unions etc on side. They will be more compliant given the public mood but if you expect them to accept major job losses without complex and lengthy negotiation then you're being quite naive.

... and may I ask nesf where do you suggest we come up with the money in the meantime to keep paying them and any benchmark/pay agreement rewards that are still to be paid ?
In 18 months time what will our unemployment rates be like if things keep going as they are ?
Taxes will have to be raised drastically just to keep public sector going.

In all honesty I believe we can't wait 18 months to cut government wage bill :rolleyes:

mountainyman

Why was this ever closed down. In ahuge orgainisation like the CPS we need to be looking out for waste all the time!

GRRRR

nesf

jmayo wrote: »

... and may I ask nesf where do you suggest we come up with the money in the meantime to keep paying them and any benchmark/pay agreement rewards that are still to be paid ?
In 18 months time what will our unemployment rates be like if things keep going as they are ?
Taxes will have to be raised drastically just to keep public sector going.

In all honesty I believe we can't wait 18 months to cut government wage bill :rolleyes:

We'll have to wait and see what the unions will give us now in return for doing it right. I agree and I personally would have wanted something like this to happen five or even ten years ago never mind now. There should be at the very least a pay freeze for the next 18 months if not a pay cut across the sector. But you know as well as I do that the civil service unions are among the most powerful in the country and nothing is going to get pushed through without their agreement unless we have a Thatcherite showdown with them which I can't see happening.

It's distasteful that we have to continue funding the sector for the next 18 months but a kneejerk reaction involving ill-informed cuts being made in the sector could do us more harm than good in the medium to long term which we need to be aware of. Please don't mistake my acknowledgement of the need to take time with this issue as support for the present wage bill or anything like that.

old boy

spadder wrote: »

It's all part of his grand plan. NASA are going to build a brand new space centre in Birr, staffed by Fas trained astronauts powered by a peat fired fision reactor.

taking ideas from brendan grace, no wonder he got caught with his grimy paw in the cookie jar

jmayo

nesf wrote: »

We'll have to wait and see what the unions will give us now in return for doing it right. I agree and I personally would have wanted something like this to happen five or even ten years ago never mind now. There should be at the very least a pay freeze for the next 18 months if not a pay cut across the sector. But you know as well as I do that the civil service unions are among the most powerful in the country and nothing is going to get pushed through without their agreement unless we have a Thatcherite showdown with them which I can't see happening.

It's distasteful that we have to continue funding the sector for the next 18 months but a kneejerk reaction involving ill-informed cuts being made in the sector could do us more harm than good in the medium to long term which we need to be aware of. Please don't mistake my acknowledgement of the need to take time with this issue as support for the present wage bill or anything like that.

5 or 10 years ago the great bertie decided to start increasing the staffing numbers in the public sector.
They drastically increased employment in areas such as health, but they were in admin areas and not in actual services to the patients.
Of course he was always able to spout how they had increased the numbers employed in health and how they were now spending so much more money on helath, but it was not where it was needed and lots of chickens have come home to roost and show up the myth.

The problem will be that cuts will be made in areas where contractors/temps work e.g front line services such as nursing, teacher etc.
It is always these areas that appear to suffer, yet there are a gaggle of managers sitting in admin managing a few paper staff each.

corkfella

you're probably right nesf in regards to 3 monthes, but in the private sector it would only take one fiscal quarter to cut the necessary spending, these union leaders are so out of touch with reality its not funny at times. Gud old Bertie never said no to a union, and to think some deluded fools want him back as taoisech god give me strength

nesf

corkfella wrote: »

you're probably right nesf in regards to 3 monthes, but in the private sector it would only take one fiscal quarter to cut the necessary spending, these union leaders are so out of touch with reality its not funny at times.

Think of it this way. The equivalent to a private sector company would be a single department/piece of the civil service. Three months is loads of time to review something of that size. The civil service on the other hand is more like a huge network of a hundred different companies, all interlinked in weird and wonderful ways. It will take time to sort the mess out simply because of how convoluted it is and there are no short cuts. Centralising things like HR etc might realise some reductions in the wage bill but we'll have to do more than that to sort it out I feel.

nesf

jmayo wrote: »

5 or 10 years ago the great bertie decided to start increasing the staffing numbers in the public sector.
They drastically increased employment in areas such as health, but they were in admin areas and not in actual services to the patients.
Of course he was always able to spout how they had increased the numbers employed in health and how they were now spending so much more money on helath, but it was not where it was needed and lots of chickens have come home to roost and show up the myth.

You think FF could have sold cutting numbers in the Department of Health in the boom times*? And yes, that would be what it'd have been painted as by both the opposition, special interest groups and unions if they tried. The stomach for these cuts is coming from the will of the public to see them, when times are good people don't care and it's reflected in the actions of the politicians they elect. Unions have a field day when the economy is in boom because there isn't the public will to support the long bloody fight for pay restraint.


*To your average guy on the street who knows feck all about the structuring, running and needs of the department, not to people who follow politics.

oscarBravo

nesf wrote: »

Centralising things like HR etc might realise some reductions in the wage bill...

When I heard about proposed measures like consolidating payroll and HR systems, I immediately thought: PPARS.

Consolidating HR can't happen until work practices are streamlined. Not a task for the faint-hearted.

cyclopath2001

Also supposed to be centralising IT....that's gonna cost megabucks and have 'joined up government' (whatever happened to 'Reach'?).

To get the best benefit of shared services and staff mobility among departments, they need to close down many provincial offices and consolidate them back in Dublin. We can't afford decentralisation, it's an expensive 'make work' scheme for non-viable towns.

nesf

oscarBravo wrote: »

When I heard about proposed measures like consolidating payroll and HR systems, I immediately thought: PPARS.

Consolidating HR can't happen until work practices are streamlined. Not a task for the faint-hearted.

Yup, it needs to be approached in a holistic manner if it's going to get anywhere.

lostexpectation

guess who's on 'an bord snip'

paul haran
guess who bought his wife to CA ?

yes paul haran
check out mary's famous hairdo

http://www.nasaimages.org/luna/servlet/detail/nasaNAS~6~6~43656~147500:KENNEDY-SPACE-CENTER,-FLA----In-the

ht kn +bc

jmayo

Harney is up to her neck in this and this rather than the balls she has made of health is what might finally get the bi*** out, hopefully.
Her hubby was Chairman of Fás, Molloy worked with her in dept and then ended up boss of Fás.
All very cosy altogether.

Centralising IT will be another PPARS, great if you are one of the consultants on the contracts, but ultimately doomed to failure.

If they were serious about An Bord Snip they should have hired someone like Jerry Robinson or someone from private sector who has turned ailing companies around.
Ah but sure why would they not want to give one of their own a nice job with nice expenses.

PS people should remember Harney misused state resources before.
She used an Air Corps Casa aircraft to fly her down to Sligo, so that she could open an offie in Manorhamilton.
This is the woman that wants all cancer treatment centres in the NorthWest closed and people can travel to Galway or Dublin.
Will they get the use of the Casa :rolleyes:

enda1

lostexpectation wrote: »

guess who's on 'an bord snip'

paul haran
guess who bought his wife to CA ?

yes paul haran

Actually he's not on the board.

mikekerry

biffo and his cronies will be hoping that the report will be forgotton by the public who will i would imagine have even more worries in 6 months with a lot more redundencies on the way.
I used work in the civil service, the waste of taxpayers money was a disgrace.
people were basically told spend their budgets for the year as if they didn't spend them they wouldn't get the same budget the following year!
no forward planning as we can see from the:
-luas(built but not connected together!)
-bus "service" in dublin
-m50 etc etc
and the ex fas boss is getting 500k severerance, thats some punishment!
it really is a comedy show, the muppet show.