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Expired Licence & no NCT - Caught !!

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    #182
    seclachi
    Closed Accounts Posts: 510 ✭✭✭seclachi


    Firstly, get a lawyer, internet forums are only ever good for opinion, and in the case of you doing something wrong, its just going to be abuse.

    I think its justified though, 7 years is a long time, and not having a licence isnt a skeleton in the cupboard, its an issue you sort out asap. If a judge banned you because he felt you werent responsible enough to have one it would be hard to disagree.

    Some would say you might be able to get away by saying you just popped out for a few minutes or something, but if a judge can see you were insured for 7 years then they will probably see you as a chancer and throw the book at you. Its not a smoking gun or anything, but i guess its the difference between a light penalty and the maximum extent.


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    #183
    slimjimmc
    Registered Users Posts: 7,786 ✭✭✭slimjimmc


    Deleted User wrote: »
    and 7 years? the last time you bought petrol as a qualified licenced learner driver was with the Punt.

    Corrected.


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    #184
    Jo King
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,139 ✭✭✭Jo King


    doingmybit wrote: »
    Also, just referring to an early post you did in relation to 3rd party insurance still in place if you have an accident. The correct fact to this is that the person with you and the person you hit are insured but not with the 3rd party of your insurance but with a general fund all insurance companies pay into and pay out of. So when you are unfortunate to get hit by lets say a joy (death) rider they are certainly not insured but this over all fund kicks in and the persons they hit are covered. :rolleyes:
    Ask your insurance company and they will confirm this FACT


    Wrong. The insurer is not allowed to use breaches of their conditions to refuse cover to an injured third party. Any insurer who tells you the above is lying. this has been tested in the European Court of justice in the case of Ruiz Bernaldez [1996] ECR I-1829 . The claim will not be dealt with as an uninsured claim.


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    #185
    doingmybit
    Closed Accounts Posts: 93 ✭✭doingmybit


    DublinDilbert wrote: »
    To be honest it makes more sense to take the car on the spot, that's what they would done in Canada.

    She wouldn't forget it twice would she?

    Let say she says "i haven't got my licence with me", the garda lets her proceed (produce in 10 days), drives down the road and crashes killing a few people! "Ah sure we thought she had a licence"!

    Ah, you forgot about the fact that she/he had a machine gun in the boot of the car and after she ran into all them people she got out and opened up on the bystanders. get real. there are many full dl persons on the road doing a good enough job in killing innocent people already.


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    #186
    doingmybit
    Closed Accounts Posts: 93 ✭✭doingmybit


    Jo King wrote: »
    Wrong. The insurer is not allowed to use breaches of their conditions to refuse cover to an injured third party. Any insurer who tells you the above is lying. this has been tested in the European Court of justice in the case of Ruiz Bernaldez [1996] ECR I-1829 . The claim will not be dealt with as an uninsured claim.

    You seem to know what you are talking about so you should also know that all cases are different, also you should also know that this fund is there for the use of such cases, and have being used before on such cases.


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    #187
    arybvtcw0eolkf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 24,878 ✭✭✭✭arybvtcw0eolkf


    Stufinnegan wrote: »
    I found myself in a similar situation a few years ago (not quite 7 years though). My advise is for you to go to the Garda that pulled you. Explain the situation. This will end up in court anyway. In the mean time, apply for your licence. I don't know weather you can get to the point of sitting your driving test before your court date. If you can it will serve you better. I managed to do this and then represented myself in court. The Judge saw that I got off my arse and fixed the issue, I ended up with two points for the original speeding offence (which is why I was pulled in the beginning) and the rest was thrown out of court. The fact that I had been up front with the garda and the Judge seemed to buy alot of kudos.

    Thats more or less what happened with my sis-in-law recently.

    Despite my rantings at her for years to get off her fat ass and get a damn licence she didn't, and like the OP, was caught.

    She went to court, without sitting a test but she showed evidence that she'd applied for it. Told a hard luck story about having children, school runs and other bullsh*t.

    She got a small fine, I can't remember how much but it wasn't near enough and two points on her licence.

    Kinda makes a mockery of the rest of us really.


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    #188
    carrollmark
    Registered Users Posts: 93 ✭✭carrollmark


    Well Niamh ...

    What did you decide to do?

    Whatever it was I hope you've managed to alleviate all the stress this seemed to be causing you ..


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    #189
    Bearcat
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,326 ✭✭✭Bearcat


    Mairt wrote: »

    .

    She got a small fine, I can't remember how much but it wasn't near enough and two points on her licence.

    Kinda makes a mockery of the rest of us really.

    makes my blood...there I am fully insured,taxed, nct-ed up to the wazoo and get 2 points for doing 65 in a 60kmh zone by a garda who more or less was hiding in the bushes. I thought i saw frooth coming from the garda's mouth such was his excitement that he'd a victim.....the same punishment is given for no licence.....banana republic.


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    #190
    galwaytt
    Registered Users Posts: 12,776 ✭✭✭✭galwaytt


    DublinDilbert wrote: »
    To be honest it makes more sense to take the car on the spot, that's what they would done in Canada.

    She wouldn't forget it twice would she?

    Let say she says "i haven't got my licence with me", the garda lets her proceed (produce in 10 days), drives down the road and crashes killing a few people! "Ah sure we thought she had a licence"!

    .... a flaw with that is this:
    By not being able to produce a licence, at the side of the road, is an offence indeed.......but it doesn't mean you're not licenced.

    Furthermore, the 'licence' you produce at the side of the road.........isn't a licence at all. All that piece of (oversized !) paper is, is, a representation of your 'licence to operate a vehicle/etc', which is actually your driver licence file in the Co Co office.

    As you do not lose your licence by not renewing it immediately, or losing it, so it is true too that if your paper (pink one) is expired/lost, but you are still 100% legal in respect of 'being licenced' to operate a vehicle. You just don't have the pink bit with you to show it. Technically, they could look it up at the side of the road, on enquiry, anyway, so it's a bit moot, tbh.......

    Ode To The Motorist

    “And my existence, while grotesque and incomprehensible to you, generates funds to the exchequer. You don't want to acknowledge that as truth because, deep down in places you don't talk about at the Green Party, you want me on that road, you need me on that road. We use words like freedom, enjoyment, sport and community. We use these words as the backbone of a life spent instilling those values in our families and loved ones. You use them as a punch line. I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the tax revenue and the very freedom to spend it that I provide, and then questions the manner in which I provide it. I would rather you just said "thank you" and went on your way. Otherwise I suggest you pick up a bus pass and get the ********* ********* off the road” 



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    #191
    Alun
    Registered Users Posts: 21,466 ✭✭✭✭Alun


    galwaytt wrote: »
    As you do not lose your licence by not renewing it immediately, or losing it, so it is true too that if your paper (pink one) is expired/lost, but you are still 100% legal in respect of 'being licensed' to operate a vehicle.
    Isn't there a time limit though on it expiring? I.e. if it expired over 10 years ago, or something like that, then you lose it?


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    #192
    doingmybit
    Closed Accounts Posts: 93 ✭✭doingmybit


    Alun wrote: »
    Isn't there a time limit though on it expiring? I.e. if it expired over 10 years ago, or something like that, then you lose it?

    The law states that you should hold;) a current and valid dl certificate, so thats where you will get the points for that offense.


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    #193
    galwaytt
    Registered Users Posts: 12,776 ✭✭✭✭galwaytt


    oh yes, there is a time limit, you're right.

    If it was to expire 'immediately' upon the date on your pink slip, then half the country would be 'unlicenced'....

    The reason it's not immediate though, is to allow for, well.....human nature. People do forget things. Renewal date on a 10yr licence.........well, I certainly don't know what the date on mine is, off the top of my head !!

    Ode To The Motorist

    “And my existence, while grotesque and incomprehensible to you, generates funds to the exchequer. You don't want to acknowledge that as truth because, deep down in places you don't talk about at the Green Party, you want me on that road, you need me on that road. We use words like freedom, enjoyment, sport and community. We use these words as the backbone of a life spent instilling those values in our families and loved ones. You use them as a punch line. I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the tax revenue and the very freedom to spend it that I provide, and then questions the manner in which I provide it. I would rather you just said "thank you" and went on your way. Otherwise I suggest you pick up a bus pass and get the ********* ********* off the road” 



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    #194
    stek
    Registered Users Posts: 379 ✭✭stek


    Hi Niamh.
    How did you get on in the station? did they throw the book at you, or are you on the road again?
    good luck.


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    #195
    superfly_69
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6 ✭superfly_69


    Hi Niamh,

    I am only writing because I understand the worry you are going through.

    But you have to understand that this is Ireland. This sort of stuff not having a licence or an NCT is not treated that seriously. No insurance is a different matter.
    At the very worst you may get a small fine. The people who are suggesting bans or even more laughably prison are not living in the real world.
    You are doing all the correct things. As someone else suggested dont go to the station for a few weeks. The guard will not have got around to processing it. You can prove you were insured at the time.
    My advice would be when you do go to the station don't approach the desk if its a woman guard! No offence ladies but in my experience the lads are a lot less likely to be all high and mighty !

    I'll probably get slammed for that last comment but its true lol.

    Best of luck


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    #196
    galwaytt
    Registered Users Posts: 12,776 ✭✭✭✭galwaytt


    superfly_69 wrote: »
    As someone else suggested dont go to the station for a few weeks.

    Are you nuts ? You're hoping he's too busy, and doesn't get 5 mins to record a non-producer in the book, and you'll be all okey-dokey ?

    Don't be an ass - you have to produce inside 10 days, once past that it's off to the DPP........

    Ode To The Motorist

    “And my existence, while grotesque and incomprehensible to you, generates funds to the exchequer. You don't want to acknowledge that as truth because, deep down in places you don't talk about at the Green Party, you want me on that road, you need me on that road. We use words like freedom, enjoyment, sport and community. We use these words as the backbone of a life spent instilling those values in our families and loved ones. You use them as a punch line. I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the tax revenue and the very freedom to spend it that I provide, and then questions the manner in which I provide it. I would rather you just said "thank you" and went on your way. Otherwise I suggest you pick up a bus pass and get the ********* ********* off the road” 



  • Options
    #197
    superfly_69
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6 ✭superfly_69


    lol. I think you are nuts if you think the boys in blue are that efficient that it automatically goes to the dpp after 10 days. That aint the way it works fella.


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    #198
    L1011
    Registered Users Posts: 68,991 ✭✭✭✭L1011


    Worst case scenario and they do, you've blown any chance of getting away lightly. Theres not a district court judge in the country that won't notice dates in a case like that, and if you end up with Patwell or Brophy or their ilk, you'd be looking at a driving ban + thousands.


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    #199
    superfly_69
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6 ✭superfly_69


    Ok then if it does go to court as the Guards are so super efficient

    By that time:
    The OP has her new full license sorted
    Fair chance chance the cop wont even show up
    Fair chance it could get thrown out due to various reasons
    Fair chance the judge will give a minor slap on the wrist- first offence etc.etc.

    Thats even before you engage a clever solictor to get you off on a technicality. I mean there were fella's in kerry last week who got off when their brief argued that because the defendants took a piss (thereby inhalind the steam off their piss) during the 'nil by mouth' 20 minute phase on a suspected drink driving charge - it was not 'nil by mouth' as he said that it should also mean 'nil by nose' ! lovl. case dismissed.

    Look what I am saying is that the scaremongering going on towards the poor girl is ridiculous. Talk of bans and prison. It just won't happen lads. I'd put money on it. Worst case - a small fine.
    Sin é


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    #200
    L1011
    Registered Users Posts: 68,991 ✭✭✭✭L1011


    Worst case if she specifically avoids presenting is a multi-year driving ban, if she gets Brophy, Zaidan or Patwell. Read the court reports from around the country, many of our district court judges are power-tripping nutbars.


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    #201
    the groutch
    Closed Accounts Posts: 16,096 ✭✭✭✭the groutch


    it's the nutbars that stops ireland from becoming a 90's poland


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    #202
    superfly_69
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6 ✭superfly_69


    The girls is not alone in her predicament

    "By the end of December 2006, a total of 392,775 drivers in Ireland had penalty points endorsed on their driving licences. Of that total number, 270,519 held full driving licences, 35,857 were provisional drivers and 86,399 had no driving licence."

    Source: http://www.citizensinformation.ie/categories/travel-and-recreation/motoring-1/driving-offences/penalty-points-for-driving-offences

    Two-thirds of speeding drivers get off the hook - May 06 2008

    http://www.independent.ie/national-news/twothirds-of-speeding-drivers-get-off-the-hook-1367599.html

    There are many other examples. Even from around the country with heavy judges like brophy etc who like to make a lot of noise...for a small offence like this they just dish out fines and maybe a few penalty points if you are unlucky. they do not send you to prison or give you multi year driving bans lovl.

    If she does not go to the guards with her new license before they send it off to the DPP - once she has it by the time her court case comes around and presuming that the guards turn up in court etc. etc. It will be a slap on the wrist and she will drive home.


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    #203
    pa990
    Registered Users Posts: 3,883 ✭✭✭pa990


    Gil_Dub wrote: »
    Everyone can let a license expire accidentally, but you've ignored it deliberately for the last 7 years. That's not a skeleton in the closet, that's a criminal offense. ...........You could get jail time.

    No licence is NOT a criminal offence,
    It is highly unlikely that any custodial sentence will be given, a fine, endorsement and ban are most likely on the cards

    (no traffic offence is a a crime.. not even drunk driving/ dangerous driving, ask any solicitor, guard or judge)


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    #204
    Yakult
    Moderators, Computer Games Moderators Posts: 7,941 Mod ✭✭✭✭Yakult


    So has anything happened??

    I dont wanna read thru 14 pages lol.


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    #205
    craichoe
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,706 ✭✭✭craichoe


    superfly_69 wrote: »
    lol. I think you are nuts if you think the boys in blue are that efficient that it automatically goes to the dpp after 10 days. That aint the way it works fella.

    The Garda doesn't need to, he'll have the date recorded in the book, or it won't be there at all if she didnt produce.


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    #206
    galwaytt
    Registered Users Posts: 12,776 ✭✭✭✭galwaytt


    superfly_69 wrote: »
    lol. I think you are nuts if you think the boys in blue are that efficient that it automatically goes to the dpp after 10 days. That aint the way it works fella.


    Yes, I see your point - but can you take the chance that it just so happens that yours is the ONE piece of paper he does process on the 11th day....?

    Ode To The Motorist

    “And my existence, while grotesque and incomprehensible to you, generates funds to the exchequer. You don't want to acknowledge that as truth because, deep down in places you don't talk about at the Green Party, you want me on that road, you need me on that road. We use words like freedom, enjoyment, sport and community. We use these words as the backbone of a life spent instilling those values in our families and loved ones. You use them as a punch line. I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the tax revenue and the very freedom to spend it that I provide, and then questions the manner in which I provide it. I would rather you just said "thank you" and went on your way. Otherwise I suggest you pick up a bus pass and get the ********* ********* off the road” 



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    #207
    doingmybit
    Closed Accounts Posts: 93 ✭✭doingmybit


    galwaytt wrote: »
    Yes, I see your point - but can you take the chance that it just so happens that yours is the ONE piece of paper he does process on the 11th day....?

    Does a guard process his notebook within 10 days. yes and no.
    Usually a guard will do all that at the end of each month. He or she picks a day at the end of each month and goes over all stops etc and does the checks on pulse to see if it was handed into station etc. So, if you were stopped at lets say the latter part of the month he/she will look it up near enough to the 10 days but if the stop occurred at the start of the month you might have longer to hand it in. But in saying all that every guard is different, that happens in my station and maybe not in this station are others. My advise, don't wait, always stick within the 10 day period. Once a summons / fine is done its over to the court service to stop it then not the guard, if its goes to court:eek:


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    #208
    felim
    Closed Accounts Posts: 157 ✭✭felim


    pa990 wrote: »
    (no traffic offence is a a crime.. not even drunk driving/ dangerous driving, ask any solicitor, guard or judge)

    That's not true according to the Crime Statistics Office (page 17 of this pdf):

    http://www.cso.ie/releasespublications/documents/crime_justice/current/crimeclassification.pdf

    According to that even speeding is considered a crime. I think the terms most appropriate in this country are indictable and non-indictable offences.


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    #209
    flyton5
    Registered Users Posts: 1,112 ✭✭✭flyton5


    i suggest instead of arguing stupid points trying to out do each other on who knows more about the guards or judges or road laws we sit back and wait for niamh to get back to us.....

    *puts kettle on*

    anything yet??

    maybe paddy power will let us take bets....

    if niamh is in anyway attractive....and the guard was a bloke....my money is on him letting her off....

    7/2 she gets off


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    #210
    the groutch
    Closed Accounts Posts: 16,096 ✭✭✭✭the groutch


    anyone wanna give me 2/1 that she gets a ban of 6 months+


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    #211
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 24,714 ✭ [Deleted User]


    the groutch wrote: »
    anyone wanna give me 2/1 that she gets a ban of 6 months+

    Not a problem! If I saw it on betfair I would be laying straight away. Not a hope she will be banned!!


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