Help ...I can't stop running !

rigal

Best of luck sosa. Not that you'll need any with the quality of training you've done!

Sosa

3:14:16

I am not going to go into to much detail here,the day didnt go according to plan to say the least.
Started off way to fast ( courtesy of the sub 3 pacers,who went off like march hares...ridiculous ),I did the first mile in 6:20,totally unintentional as i didnt look at the watch because i was so far behind the pacers i thought i would ease myself into it,second mile i did it in 7:20 to peg myself back.
Sauntered along up to 10k,got there just under 42:30....tipped along nicely up to 10m...no problems,continued up to half way in 1:29:32...perfect ( pacers out of sight ! ) 13-16 got a bit tired but kept up the pace,16-19 got more tired but a gel and plenty of water kept me going,then the sh!t hit the fan,got to 20 still under sub 3 pace and the wheels started to loosen,felt my groin pop,got a fright and was forced to walk for a minute,got going again,but slow,then i knew sub 3 was gone as i had lost my pace and knew i was not going to get it back....then things got worse,both hamstring cramped badly and was forced to walk several more times,then my mind went as i was demoralised,i got very dizzy for spells through out those 4m and i thought if any of the ambulance crews saw me that they might pull me from the race...so maybe i stopped once or twice to often to make sure that didnt happen.

That took me roughly to around 24m where all was lost and i just wanted to finish...i walked 6 times totalling 8 mins between 20 and 24,and did 9 min miles for the last 2.2 and the only thing kept me going was the crowd ( who were fantastic all the way round )

All in all,i finished...3:14:16 is a good first marathon...i know that,but i was very dissillusioned with that horrible spell between 20 and 24,things happed to my body that never happened before and it was not good,i didnt feel elation at the finish,i felt dissapointed and bordering on upset,it then took me 1:30 to get back to the hotel that took me 15 mins to get down from beforehand,sat in the jacuzzi and came around a bit,then,went out to the red cow to meet my wife and inlaws ( sight for sore eyes,the wife not the inlaws ),could not eat all day as my stomach was raw,but got home to waterford and had a slap up chinese meal and a few tiger beers.

Now,already i feel much better physically and emotionally about the whole thing and will just store those bad memories away for a while until i go out and beat 3:14:16 at my next marathon.
Obviously sub 3 was out of my reach,i thought that i was in with a shout,i was not never to confident of going uder,but i did think i would be close and i didnt think i would have those 4 horrendous miles towards the end to deal with.

I said i woulndt go on about it,but i got a bit carried away... a tad pi$$ed off.

i must read the other reports tomorrow.

Well done to everyone else who participated today,i hop you all reached your targets.

aero2k

Sosa wrote: »

Now,already i feel much better physically and emotionally about the whole thing and will just store those bad memories away for a while until i go out and beat 3:14:16 at my next marathon.

That's exactly the spirit. I felt really down last year, so much so that while I did get out 3-4 times per week, I didn't do any serious running until the Bupa Great run in April, and that wasn't a great effort. I can echo the comments of others who have found much inspiration in your log - your race times, dedication and methodical approach have been exemplary.
From your description you and I were within 10 secs up to halfway. I'll have a look for you in some of the pics - I was wearing 2062, blue singlet, black shorts, gloves.
And by way of consolation it took me 26 years to get my revenge on the marathon, I'm pretty sure you could do it within 26 weeks if you put your mind to it!

osnola ibax

Hi Sosa, hard luck on not hitting your goal, from what I can see, there are a number of posters that were disappointed with how things went today. I found I was sweating profusely out there today and could not stay fully hydrated no matter how many fluids I took on board. Did you suffer in this way at all?

Terrific time by the way, just look at your placing relative to how many took part, that's how far ahead you are of most marathon runners. Little consolation if you didn't go as well as you thought you might.

Biggest lesson I learned is that the marathon is a completely different animal to any other shorter race distance.

Sosa

aero2k wrote: »

That's exactly the spirit. I felt really down last year, so much so that while I did get out 3-4 times per week, I didn't do any serious running until the Bupa Great run in April, and that wasn't a great effort. I can echo the comments of others who have found much inspiration in your log - your race times, dedication and methodical approach have been exemplary.
From your description you and I were within 10 secs up to halfway. I'll have a look for you in some of the pics - I was wearing 2062, blue singlet, black shorts, gloves.
And by way of consolation it took me 26 years to get my revenge on the marathon, I'm pretty sure you could do it within 26 weeks if you put your mind to it!

thanks aero but i hope you dont see any of the pics from 20+

osnola ivax wrote: »

Hi Sosa, hard luck on not hitting your goal, from what I can see, there are a number of posters that were disappointed with how things went today. I found I was sweating profusely out there today and could not stay fully hydrated no matter how many fluids I took on board. Did you suffer in this way at all?

Terrific time by the way, just look at your placing relative to how many took part, that's how far ahead you are of most marathon runners. Little consolation if you didn't go as well as you thought you might.

Biggest lesson I learned is that the marathon is a completely different animal to any other shorter race distance.

The last 6.2 were the hardest thing i have ever done physically,i cant stress how tough it was,my legs just could not cope.
I dont have teh strongest of legs to start with,maybe i need another couple of marathons to get used to the endurance required.

Slogger Jogger

On the + side thats a good time for a first time out. You kept going despite your obvious difficulties. Some people are lucky to avoid such difficulties in marathons, others not so much. The fact that the pacing was a bit iffy earlier mightn't have helped, but great plans can easily come astray in marathons. The trick is to hang on in there and get your own back the next time. You've shown your commitment in training. A better time is just around the corner.

village runner

Tough luck. I really thought you had a great chance.
I done 3.31 in my first so you are well ahead. Take the pluses out of it. Sorry that oyu felt the pacing was iffy. Nxt year you will nail it.

tisnotover

I was really looking forward to this race report Sosa, I was rooting for ya that you'd hit ure target yesterday, cos the training you'd put in was well impressive, well structured and your were getting thru ure sessions comfortably.

All the way to 20miles, you were bang on...take the positives out of it:

1st marathon down
a sub 3:15 time
U kept going thru pain barrier and finished!!

There are plenty here who may help you find out what happened to cause wheels come off at end...I think next time out, you'll nail it for sure tho.

Recover well !!

luvlylady

Well done on such a great time in your first marathon. It's a pity it didn't go your way on the day but your time is still fantastic. I saw you coming up to the finish line, I recognised you as being from Waterford (or "from town" as they say 'round these parts ) and then copped your bib number and remembered you gave it out on here. Your eyes seemed fixed on the finish line. Huge congrats to you, you did yourself proud.

asimonov

congrats sosa..i think when the smoke clears you'll look back on your 3:14 positively. Between the training you put in over the last few months and the experience you had yesterday, you're a much better runner now than you were 19 weeks ago. well done.

RubyK

Sorry you didn't get the time you had hoped, but you did amazing well, and should be so proud of yourself and all your hard work! 3 hrs 14 is some time!

Racing Flat

Sosa,

Hard luck mate. To be even attempting sub 3 on your first marathon is fairly exceptional and shows how far you have come in a year or so. Your training and races equate to a sub 3 as far as I can see, or pretty close anyway, i.e. I don't think 3.14 is a reflection of your fitness, you're better than that. I think you might have benefitted from some longer races in the build up; a half marathon at full effort might have given you a clearer indication as to what to go for and how to pace it. I might have missed some, but I can mainly recall 4 and 5 mile races, at impressive times, but not longer races where you went full pelt. As you know now, marathon races are a different beast and while still very different, at least 10mile and half marathon races are somewhat closer to the marathon.

A 6.10 first mile yesterday may well have been the main cause of the difficult last 6 miles, as opposed to any fitness or training issues. The cost in terms of glycogen depletion of that first mile, even though you were back on target at halfway, could easily be 10minutes. I don't think you need any more marathons to get used to the endurance, your training will do that for you. Your next marathon, if you do one can be a very good one. I wouldn't go changing too much, just get a longer race or two into teh build-up and get the early pacing right and you'll hopefully do an Abhainn on it next year.

Enjoy the break now.

ManFromAtlantis

hard luck sosa. to get to 20 on target must surely be great motivating factor for again. bet you feel like there unfinished business.
anyways great log. enjoy a break.

Gringo78

Sosa wrote: »

Obviously sub 3 was out of my reach,i thought that i was in with a shout,i was not never to confident of going uder,but i did think i would be close and i didnt think i would have those 4 horrendous miles towards the end to deal with.

I said i woulndt go on about it,but i got a bit carried away... a tad pi$$ed off.

First off...fantastic time for your debut marathon. Maybe somebody more experienced might have a better explanation than me but it sounds like you maybe ran low on water or fuel, especially the dizziness you were experiencing??? I wouldn't lose heart and think you have weak legs or anything, nor would I agree that sub 3 was out of your reach. You were running close to your limit on the day and did amazing to keep it to 20 and that alone suggests you could have maintained it to 26.2. The groin 'popping' was probably just in your head and being dehydrated/glycogen depleted at that stage probably doesn't have you thinking straight. The marathon needs so much more mental strength than the shorter race distances. Just wondering, how many gels / energy drinks did you take on during the race?

Likewise, once you slow to a walk you'll find it extremely difficult to get back on pace and will cramp up, again not a sign of poor training or not being able for it, its just what happens.

Don't be disheartened, be proud of your time and your achievement and I'm sure in a few weeks time you'll be back into the training....stronger than ever...and you'll have learned so much for your next marathon where you'll definetly nail it. I must warn you though, hardest thing now will be the wait until the next marathon!!

RacoonQueen

That's a fantastic time for your first marathon, even if you don't agree with us.

Sosa

Racing Flat wrote: »

Sosa,I don't think 3.14 is a reflection of your fitness, you're better than that. I think you might have benefitted from some longer races in the build up; a half marathon at full effort might have given you a clearer indication as to what to go for and how to pace it. I might have missed some, but I can mainly recall 4 and 5 mile races, at impressive times, but not longer races where you went full pelt. As you know now, marathon races are a different beast and while still very different, at least 10mile and half marathon races are somewhat closer to the marathon.

I know that if i set out to do 3:14,i would have done it without stopping and would not have encountered any problems along the way.
Considering 8 mins was walking,14 mins over my target is not the end of the world.
I take great heart that i kept sub 3 pace going until 20m.
I agree with you about the longer races...i was only talking to Sungod about it today,my 10m - half needs a bit of work,an i intend on fixing that next.

I don't think you need any more marathons to get used to the endurance, your training will do that for you. Your next marathon, if you do one can be a very good one. I wouldn't go changing too much, just get a longer race or two into teh build-up and get the early pacing right
Enjoy the break now.

I will be doing another

Gringo78 wrote: »

The groin 'popping' was probably just in your head and being dehydrated/glycogen depleted at that stage probably doesn't have you thinking straight. The marathon needs so much more mental strength than the shorter race distances. Just wondering, how many gels / energy drinks did you take on during the race?

I drank at every station including energizer,and took 4 gels.
Probably left it to late to take my first gel,i meant to take one just after half way but forgot so i dont think i did until m16.

Don't be disheartened, be proud of your time and your achievement and I'm sure in a few weeks time you'll be back into the training

Yesterday i was,today im not...sh!t happens...just move on.
I have the half down here in 7 weeks,so all going well i will have a crack at that.

-

Sosa

ManFromAtlantis wrote: »

hard luck sosa. to get to 20 on target must surely be great motivating factor for again. bet you feel like there unfinished business.
anyways great log. enjoy a break.

Absolutely...thats the big plus from yesterday.
As i said,i will be doing another,but not quite sure if it will be a sub 3 attempt,i wont forget that distress for a while.

RacoonQueen wrote: »

That's a fantastic time for your first marathon, even if you don't agree with us.

I do agree !
I was more disheartened how i felt physically,the way my legs just packed in was frightening,really didnt see that coming.
The sub 3 thing was just a target,i never said i would do it,i was certainly not over confident,if anything i was really doubting myself over the last week or so when i see the likes of Sungod,Peckham,Amadeus,Krusty and Slogger still waiting to achieve it,the odds on me doing it were slim.
I just had a go...i could have went for 3:15 and paced myself for that,but i went for the jackpot...and didnt win :rolleyes:,so be it.
I wont lose sleep over it ( although i did last night,every time i moved i ached )

wizwill

Sosa, I had a similar experience to you yesterday, our 10k and half times would have been within seconds of each other. Wheels came off for me after 17 miles (Cramp and cooked legs from 6.08 first mile), dragged myself home in 3.08. My training log would be very similar to your own. When i read your post yesterday i was in the very same place as you, completely disillusioned!

I am glad to say today i am in the same place as you also, planning next years assault on sub 3.

I have one or two observations that i feel might be of use to you.

1.) A first mile below your Lactate Threshold cannot be undone by slowing down, see below, once the lactic acid is on board you are fighting a losing battle.

What does all of this have to do with hitting The Wall? Let’s start with the pace. It’s common, in the excitement of the moment, to start out at a pace that’s too fast for you. Big mistake. Your heart cannot pump enough blood to ensure a steady supply of oxygen to the muscles. At this point, your muscles have no choice but to burn glucose in the absence of oxygen. The anaerobic metabolism of glucose, as it’s called, is inefficient, yielding only about 1/18 as much energy (in the form of ATP) as aerobic metabolism. To make matters worse, among the by-products of the anaerobic metabolism of glucose are lactic acid and hydrogen ions. As these waste products continue to accumulate in the blood and tissue, they will not only make your muscles feel as though they are on fire, but they can also inactivate the enzymes that govern glucose metabolism. You’re toast.

2.) A marathon of 3.14 is a fantastic debut, there is no doubt you have a lot of natural ability and with more experience you will be one of those annoying chaps that runs sub 3 for fun.



keep the log going and best of luck for 2010

aero2k

Sosa wrote: »

As i said,i will be doing another,but not quite sure if it will be a sub 3 attempt,i wont forget that distress for a while.)

I decided to prepare for a sub 3, then just go out and enjoy the run. I figured I could reduce the self imposed pressure by running one mile at a time and not thinking about the finish and the big target. I became so absorbed with watching the Garmin, remembering to drink, and relaxing. that I almost didn't believe it when I got near the end without slowing very much. You have short race times I'd struggle to hit on a bike, and you have the endurance from your long runs, I suspect it's all about the pacing.
In a while, you can use memories of that distress to motivate you to get a little bit of revenge...

Sosa wrote: »

I was more disheartened how i felt physically,the way my legs just packed in was frightening,really didnt see that coming.

Yeah, that's really frustrating. Don't worry, it won't happen next time.

Sosa wrote: »

I just had a go...i could have went for 3:15 and paced myself for that,but i went for the jackpot...and didnt win :rolleyes:,so be it.
I wont lose sleep over it ( although i did last night,every time i moved i ached )

I did exactly the same last year and if I had to go back and do it again I wouldn't change a thing. The margin between missing and achieving your goal can be very small, in your case you probably missed a sub 3 by the 40 secs your first mile was too fast rather than by 14 mins.
Great to hear you're already looking forward to your next race.

Sosa

wizwill wrote: »

1.) A first mile below your Lactate Threshold cannot be undone by slowing down, see below, once the lactic acid is on board you are fighting a losing battle.

What does all of this have to do with hitting The Wall? Let’s start with the pace. It’s common, in the excitement of the moment, to start out at a pace that’s too fast for you. Big mistake. Your heart cannot pump enough blood to ensure a steady supply of oxygen to the muscles. At this point, your muscles have no choice but to burn glucose in the absence of oxygen. The anaerobic metabolism of glucose, as it’s called, is inefficient, yielding only about 1/18 as much energy (in the form of ATP) as aerobic metabolism. To make matters worse, among the by-products of the anaerobic metabolism of glucose are lactic acid and hydrogen ions. As these waste products continue to accumulate in the blood and tissue, they will not only make your muscles feel as though they are on fire, but they can also inactivate the enzymes that govern glucose metabolism. You’re toast.

Unbelievable to think that 4 months of training was undone in the first mile.

aero2k

Sosa wrote: »

Unbelievable to think that 4 months of training was undone in the first mile.

Only true insofar as you're not happy with the time - remember you still have the benefit of those 4 months quality training, not to mention the 26.2 miles yesterday, you've proved to yourself you can stick at something even though it's not going to plan, and you now know what it takes to run a marathon.
I was just out for a little run (actually a hobble) and I was thinking you might be interested in the marathon history of Carlos Lopez - you're probably too young to remember him but he was a regular at 10k on the track at Grand Prix and major championships - anyway:
1st attempt '83 or '84 - DNF
2nd attempt Olympic Gold LA 1984 2:09
3rd attempt World record 2:07, Rotterdam 1985. (aged 38)
Even the greats need a little practice...

Peckham

wizwill's post regarding the first mile of a marathon should be stickied and be made to be compulsory reading for every marathoner here, regardless of whether they're a first timer or a sub-3 attacker (or even both!)

rigal

Well done sosa. Great debut marathon time and I'm sure you'll be significantly faster next time round.

Sosa

Peckham wrote: »

wizwill's post regarding the first mile of a marathon should be stickied and be made to be compulsory reading for every marathoner here, regardless of whether they're a first timer or a sub-3 attacker (or even both!)

Yeah,i would have to agree with that...if any of the mods are reading,feel free to copy over.

--amadeus--

Theres a lot of good advice out already and will come put that I want to get collated and put onto the Biki. We'll leave it a bit for the dust to settle but it will get done.

As for the race - gutted for you. I know how exactly how you feel because what happened to you is a carbon copy of my 1st (albeit I was a lot slower on my début!). You've got the right attitude, the talent and sub 3 will happen sooner rather than later.

Abhainn

I was gutted for you too SOSA .
You showed class commitment throughout the year. Next time get in a couple, of half's before the big day.
My first marthon two years ago in Dublin was a 3:14 also but I was just going for a 3:20 or so then. I was a happy man.

I'm not sure if I missed it but did you take on liquids at every water station? You may have been a bit dehyrated also.

On wards man. Take a good rest.

Sosa

Abhainn wrote: »

I was gutted for you too SOSA .
You showed class commitment throughout the year. Next time get in a couple, of half's before the big day.
My first marthon two years ago in Dublin was a 3:14 also but I was just going for a 3:20 or so then. I was a happy man.

I'm not sure if I missed it but did you take on liquids at every water station? You may have been a bit dehyrated also.

On wards man. Take a good rest.

I drank at every station and took 4 gels,i never felt dehydrated at any stage.
Just cramp set in and could not shift it for a few miles,when it did go,i was sapped of energy,and trudged home.
As the days go by and the pains in the legs deteriorate,i am getting happier about the whole thing.
I will be back,and next time i will have more 10m-half marathons raced and i plan to do more MP runs aswell.
Just a few tweeks needed and i will knock minutes off that time without the pain and anguish i went through.

I have the half down here in 6 weeks so i hope to be 100% for that.
I may not run until next Monday,very little that week,a bit more the following week and then i will have 3 weeks to get a bit of work in before a mini one week taper for the half.

I am happy that i have something coming up tbh.

Speedy44

Hi Sosa,

Just read your race report, and I share your pain. I did think that I was going to go under the 3hrs, and had no hesitation in posting it and telling people about it. I ran last yr and had to pull out at 15mls as my quads went and I didn't have the training done really.
This year I started training back in July (I had already ran 1,120mls since Jan 1st) I did 7 runs between 15-18mls, 2-20mls, 2-22mls & 1-24miler. I did over 300mls in September, and took 2 days off as well. I topped out at 85mls/wk and then started into my 3wk taper.
I also did a bunch of tempo runs at marathon & above marathon pace, and interval sessions on the track. In races, I had gone sub 30 for 5mls, sub 18 for 5K & 5min flat for the mile.
I set out with the 3hr pacers, I thought they were going a bit fast but figured that it would balance out and was keeping an eye on my 5ml splits, which were 33.27 & 33.35. I felt basically fine for the first 10mls, at some stages I felt like I was pushing it a bit much, other times I felt like I was coasting.
Then, a little after 11mls, my legs went. Not quiet sure what happened. All of a sudden the red balloons started to drift away and I couldn't respond. I went through the 1/2 in 1:29:16, but by now I was desparately looking for the next water stop and an excuse to walk for a bit. I ended up walking/jogging the rest of the way to the finish, which I finally got to in 3:26.

Still can't figure out what went wrong. I was just comparing results from other races (although shorter) and some clubmates that ran 2:57, 2:58 & 3:01 were either just a few secs ahead of me or else a few secs behind me. I can't really blame the pacers, and obviously not the weather. Guess I'll have to put it down to one of those days.

Right now I want to get out there again and do it. I was going to wait to do another marathon 'til Boston '11, but I will definitely be back for Dublin 2010.

Best of Luck,

Sosa

aero2k wrote: »

I suspect it's all about the pacing.

I have looked back over the splits and they are to fast for the first 10m,some of them are in the 6:3x bracket.
I had a 2:59 target bracelet on and i remember being 40 seconds ahead of that before 10m and made a consious effort to bring that back by half way,which i did but the damage was done.

I did exactly the same last year and if I had to go back and do it again I wouldn't change a thing. The margin between missing and achieving your goal can be very small, in your case you probably missed a sub 3 by the 40 secs your first mile was too fast rather than by 14 mins.
Great to hear you're already looking forward to your next race.

Yeah,i will go again,but no idea when.
I read your report last night aero,very impressive...your mile splits were almost spot on,thats the difference...well done great achievement.
I may have missed it,but how many marathons have you done ?

-

Sosa

Speedy44 wrote: »

Hi Sosa,

Just read your race report, and I share your pain. I did think that I was going to go under the 3hrs, and had no hesitation in posting it and telling people about it. I ran last yr and had to pull out at 15mls as my quads went and I didn't have the training done really.
This year I started training back in July (I had already ran 1,120mls since Jan 1st) I did 7 runs between 15-18mls, 2-20mls, 2-22mls & 1-24miler. I did over 300mls in September, and took 2 days off as well. I topped out at 85mls/wk and then started into my 3wk taper.
I also did a bunch of tempo runs at marathon & above marathon pace, and interval sessions on the track. In races, I had gone sub 30 for 5mls, sub 18 for 5K & 5min flat for the mile.
I set out with the 3hr pacers, I thought they were going a bit fast but figured that it would balance out and was keeping an eye on my 5ml splits, which were 33.27 & 33.35. I felt basically fine for the first 10mls, at some stages I felt like I was pushing it a bit much, other times I felt like I was coasting.
Then, a little after 11mls, my legs went. Not quiet sure what happened. All of a sudden the red balloons started to drift away and I couldn't respond. I went through the 1/2 in 1:29:16, but by now I was desparately looking for the next water stop and an excuse to walk for a bit. I ended up walking/jogging the rest of the way to the finish, which I finally got to in 3:26.

Still can't figure out what went wrong. I was just comparing results from other races (although shorter) and some clubmates that ran 2:57, 2:58 & 3:01 were either just a few secs ahead of me or else a few secs behind me. I can't really blame the pacers, and obviously not the weather. Guess I'll have to put it down to one of those days.

Right now I want to get out there again and do it. I was going to wait to do another marathon 'til Boston '11, but I will definitely be back for Dublin 2010.

Best of Luck,

I was there,not a nice place to be...i know,the distress is unreal,but its a learning curb for me,and my eyes are now wide open concerning marathon running,whereas before i never in a million years thought i would go through the torture of the last 6.2....i really though that the worst that could happen is that i would just slow down...i was wrong