Is "Rip Off Ireland" really "Rip Off by the Public Sector"

CDfm

BroomBurner wrote: »

So you gave up the option of working for the civil service and now you're working 9am to 11pm shifts? :rolleyes:

I love what I do and make a difference - in the CS I would be working in a system with major flaws that I couldnt agree with.

The Irish Voter and Citizen deserve better.

OhNoYouDidn't

CDfm wrote: »

I am saying that there is an ethos and logic that you get in sophisticated systems.Its not the numbers you look at its the level of responibility.

If the voters vote for higher spending and taxes thats what they get. If individual politicians promote costly and expensive proposals that are adopted from whatever party it comes up at election time.:cool:

If on the other hand you choose and accept the third world model you have thats cool - but its puts you in with the same decision making model as Zimbabwe.;)

I am not offended that you ignore my opinion.

So my choice is a sophisticated system thats failing or a third world system thats failing?

Meanwhile back in the real world...

BroomBurner

CDfm wrote: »

I love what I do and make a difference - in the CS I would be working in a system with major flaws that I couldnt agree with.

The Irish Voter and Citizen deserve better.

So what do you do, (apart from troll these pages)? And are civil servants not voters and citizens?

NewDubliner

CDfm wrote: »

in the CS I would be working in a system with major flaws that I couldnt agree with.

Yes, indeed, they don't allow people to post on discussion forums like this during working hours or using government equipment/Internet connections.

ParkRunner

Rumour has it Dan Murphy, leader of the PSEU has resigned.

CDfm

BroomBurner wrote: »

So what do you do, (apart from troll these pages)? And are civil servants not voters and citizens?

I work in Marketing - but used to work as an Economist.

I agree Public Servants are voters and citizens - and this is why when they act in this capacity they have a fiduciary duty to the rest of us.They have to work to our benefit not their own and practices such as leaks pursuant to further their own interests (similar to insider dealing on the stock exchange) are not permitted. Can you honestly say this is the case?

Of course, I dont mean to offend anyone- being provocative is not trolling.

CDfm

OhNoYouDidn't wrote: »

So my choice is a sophisticated system thats failing or a third world system thats failing?

Meanwhile back in the real world...

..........where our Country is being run by muppets:D

radio1

Thais is my first time on this site- can anyone advise how i could find out about availability of vintage radio parts please? i think i may be in the wring section here

dresden8

CDfm wrote: »

They have to work to our benefit not their own and practices such as leaks pursuant to further their own interests (similar to insider dealing on the stock exchange) are not permitted. Can you honestly say this is the case?

I can assure you leaks come from ministers or their political appointees for their own narrow interests.

P. Breathnach

radio1 wrote: »

Thais is my first time on this site- can anyone advise how i could find out about availability of vintage radio parts please? i think i may be in the wring section here

You are in the wrong section, but your post is no more inappropriate than many others on this thread!

Try http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/forumdisplay.php?f=922

NewDubliner

CDfm wrote: »

I agree Public Servants are voters and citizens - and this is why when they act in this capacity they have a fiduciary duty to the rest of us.They have to work to our benefit not their own and practices such as leaks pursuant to further their own interests (similar to insider dealing on the stock exchange) are not permitted. Can you honestly say this is the case?

What particular leaks are you referring to? I hope you realise that probably all leaks are done under the instructions of politicians?

If anything there is a need for 'whistleblower'protection, so that malpractices sanctioned by politicians can be brought to attention.

RobBrn

We are on the verge of an apartied society.

On one side
Private sector workers.

Wage freezes
Wage cuts
Job insecurity
Job loses
Pension doubts

On the other side
Public Sector Workers

No Wage freeze
Absolutely no wage cuts.
No job insecurity
Absolutely no job losses
Pensions guaranteed to increase

And all homeowners will have to pay a property tax to keep the public sector workers in their sumptuous lifestyle.

Remind you of anywhere

Try South Africa - some years ago
Private sector – non-white
Public Sector - white

NewDubliner

RobBrn wrote: »

On one side... On the other side

Got any facts to back up each one of your statements?

dresden8

RobBrn wrote: »

We are on the verge of an apartied society.

On one side
Private sector workers.

Wage freezes
Wage cuts
Job insecurity
Job loses
Pension doubts

On the other side
Public Sector Workers

No Wage freeze
Absolutely no wage cuts.
No job insecurity
Absolutely no job losses
Pensions guaranteed to increase

And all homeowners will have to pay a property tax to keep the public sector workers in their sumptuous lifestyle.

Remind you of anywhere

Try South Africa - some years ago
Private sector – non-white
Public Sector - white

Civil servants killed Biko?

DJDC

On the other side
Public Sector Workers

No Wage freeze
Wrong
Absolutely no wage cuts.
Wrong
No job insecurity
Wrong
Absolutely no job losses
Wrong
Pensions guaranteed to increase

Our deficit for this year is predicted to be €18bn, a massive amount for a country our size. It' unsustainable and either 2 options are going to occur:
1) FF show some bravery and cut PS salaries, cut wasters and save €3bn+
2) They having the highest CDS in the eurozone is ok and bankrupt the country. Then IMF comes in and sorts out books by slashing PS.

Either way, its not a good time to be a PS right now. For a lot of them, employers in the private sector won't touch them with a barge pole meaning many are going to exposed to a lot of harsh realities.

dresden8

I love the way those highly trained private sector types took those lowly paid private sector jobs to preserve their self respect and not taint themselves with highly paid permanent public service jobs.

What an example to us all.

Here's the lesson for all new graduates

Non-Unionised low paid = self respect

Unionised public sector on a freaking fortune = low self esteem.

Take your pick.

Choose wisely. You will only have one chance to whine in that downturn.

CDfm

DJDC wrote: »

Either way, its not a good time to be a PS right now. For a lot of them, employers in the private sector won't touch them with a barge pole meaning many are going to exposed to a lot of harsh realities.

its a great time to be in the CS

some PS semi states have tackled the issues but the CS is a breeze

secure jobs ,salaries higher then the private sector and great pay and conditions

its a lesson in self interest -when times were good they agressively feathered their own nests - yet now when times are tough they cry that they are being treated unfairly

benchmarking was the greatest con ever pulled off by any crowd

NewDubliner

CDfm wrote: »

its a great time to be in the CS...
benchmarking was the greatest con ever pulled off by any crowd

I can see you've made more than one trip to the fountain of knowledge and wisdom that is "Independent News and Media".

p28559

Bashing the public sector is the new free hobby of 2009. I am a public sector employee and what i want to know is what level of customer service am i to aspire to. I mean the public sector is compared to the private sector....so out of the following examples can i please be advised which is the level of service you want.

the financial institution which ignores your written instruction on direct debits/standing order even when you c.c the letter to the originator?
the communications company which takes your money even after you write to them to tell them that they seem unable to solve the issue and you are terminating the contract.
the communications company that deletes your emails without reading them
the solicitor who gets paid "thinking time"
the chef who burns or uncooks your food and then the floor staff who look at you like you expect them to work.
the sales staff who dont know how the piece of equipment you wish to purchase operates.
the sales staff who couldnt be bothered looking at you when you are paying them cause they are chatting with their mates.
the delivery company who will deliver sometime between 9 and 5 someday it doesnt suit you and most likely at 4.30 not 11.30.
the car slaes man who tells you the mileage is genuine and was driven by the company director


i could go on....but you should get the idea. The private sector is in no position to throw stones on efficiency. One of the reasons the public sector contracts cost so much is that the contracts are awarded to private sector companies who see the contract as a cash machine...like an ATM take money out any time you want.

I mean these are all the private sector....even the man in the white van is private sector...lets face it its the private sector in terms of financial services that really made a mess of things. who was moaning abouot the public sector 18mths ago....very few...



while listening to George Hook one of his guests said something like "the taxes of the private sector pay for the pay bill of the public sector"....so this means that the taxes of the public sector pay for everything else that the government does....OR maybe the guy was just wrong.


there are people in the public sector who dont work too hard. and those people are in the private sector too. and they dont get fired cause they are still scattered around doing little.

for those who dont know the Civil Service are those who work for the Government Departments

the public service are working for the HSE, Local Authorities, Gardai...

and then there are heaps of people in community based orgs who are in some mystical place in between.....

am generalising a little....

any way thats my Sunday morning rant.....see the young fella could not turn on the new tv so he woke me.............bless him..............

Lplated

p28559 wrote: »

.

I am a public sector employee and what i want to know is what level of customer service am i to aspire to.

The private sector is in no position to throw stones on efficiency.

...lets face it its the private sector in terms of financial services that really made a mess of things. who was moaning abouot the public sector 18mths ago....very few...


....see the young fella could not turn on the new tv so he woke me.............bless him..............

On your first point/question, the answer is that you don't need to aspire to any level of customer service at all as your union kindly negotiated a benchmarking deal for you that did not include any level of efficiency or service targets.

On the second point, the reason the private sector can throw stones is because where the private sector is inefficient as in the examples you gave, it is being inefficient with its own money, whereas when the public service is inefficient it is being so with all of our money.

I agree that the major responsibility for the current recession comes from various actions by financial institutions across the globe - but... who, in law, was supposed to be regulating and overseeing those institutions? public servants! There was definately a failure by the private sector, but the failure by the public sector to stop those activities or at least curtail them is also a contibuting factor.

I agree no one was moaning about the ps 18 months ago - because then we had 60 billion in income and could afford 60 billion of a public sector, now were are have 40 billion in income but unforutnately the ps will not be reduced by the amount necessary to meet this income shortfall.

The young fella is showing remarkable ps traits... inability to do a job and calling someone else to sort it out for them .. bless them.

K-9

NewDubliner wrote: »

I can see you've made more than one trip to the fountain of knowledge and wisdom that is "Independent News and Media".

Conspiracies!

http://www.esri.ie/publications/latest_publications/view/index.xml?id=2691

CDfm

p28559 wrote: »

Bashing the public sector is the new free hobby of 2009. I am a public sector employee and what i want to know is what level of customer service am i to aspire to. I mean the public sector is compared to the private sector....so out of the following examples can i please be advised which is the level of service you want.

You dont say what you work at in the PS or whether you are in the CS.

Really and you should know what level of service is your target.

But lets take 1 issue -pay and how its funded via taxes the level of pay in the CS escallated at junior grades to Private Sector Pay + 30% during benchmarking - so in my book this is a con.This was based on salary levels in early recession.Rather then raise pay for better salaries in the PS those who were up to it could have left and joined the Private Sector.

In addition to this despite improvements in technoligy - PS employment rose and there has been no improvements in efficiency as a result of these advances.

There is a need for the PS and CS but the pay is coming from a much lower tax pot.

Income taxes are not the real issue -but its the fall in Capital Taxes such as Capital Gains and Stamp duty which are causing the shortfall in funding.The CS etc should have known these taxes were windfall and current expenditure could not be funded from them in the event of a recession and should have advised politicians.

Raising income taxes or property taxes is inflationary and makes us non competitive.But the PS have already had their pay increases and PS employment numbers have risen. Unemployment is also up hence the deficit.

PS employees are not being bashed they are just not trusted after having conned everyone else thru benchmarking.They are the technocrats who should have kept us out of this mess.So we had PS workers who knew the risks of a downturn awarding themselves huge pay increases that are now not sustainable. If benchmarking was working these would come down.

Benchmarking is just like huge private sector bonuses which only ever apply to a few but applied on a massive massive scale with none of the risks of private sector employment.

CDfm

NewDubliner wrote: »

I can see you've made more than one trip to the fountain of knowledge and wisdom that is "Independent News and Media".

Now but I qualified as an economist though I no longer work in the area but then you dont need to be a horse to judge a horse show.

Benchmarking is a con and they didnt respect us when the recesion came. We are being royally screwed.

Ya dont need to read the Indo to see that.

7mountpleasant

The thing I can't understand is how there has been no mass public movement with an aim to counter the hijacking of the legislative process by the likes of the public sector unions. Me and partner are considering having a child at the moment and I am very very angry to read my sunday newspaper and find that if we do decide to have a child not only do we have to put up with reduced take home pay and uncertainty but now the child care allowance is going to be scrapped to enable one of the most bloated public services in the oecd keep its priviliged position allowing the goverment to conform to Begg and o'Connors idea of social justice. This hesitancy to take on the public sector unions is almost like a greek tragedy.

irish_bob

CDfm wrote: »

Now but I qualified as an economist though I no longer work in the area but then you dont need to be a horse to judge a horse show.

Benchmarking is a con and they didnt respect us when the recesion came. We are being royally screwed.

Ya dont need to read the Indo to see that.

benchmarking was about buying votes in the elections that followed it , cowan not tackling ps pay is also about buying votes in the coming elections , it could very well pay off , what seems as cowardice on the taoiseachs part could turn out to be clever tactics , afterall , fianna fails only priority is getting re-elected

321654

DJDC wrote: »

Our deficit for this year is predicted to be €18bn, a massive amount for a country our size. It' unsustainable and either 2 options are going to occur:
1) FF show some bravery and cut PS salaries, cut wasters and save €3bn+
2) They having the highest CDS in the eurozone is ok and bankrupt the country. Then IMF comes in and sorts out books by slashing PS.

Either way, its not a good time to be a PS right now. For a lot of them, employers in the private sector won't touch them with a barge pole meaning many are going to exposed to a lot of harsh realities.

Third and most likely option :

Big PAYE increases for everyone. Abolish stamp duty in return for a property tax on houses bought from now on.

And my personal favourite. A tax on anyone trying to put the blame on a single sector of the economy.

efb

An example of Public Sector efficiency:

a claim for PRSI refund received in Sept, still being processed. Advised of 6 month turnaround time, due to cutbacks in overtime. Our office has had a 25% reduction in staff, no reduction in work, yet turnaround remains the same.

A check up in my local hospital, 6 months waiting for referral from GP, and associated costs had procedure. Advised I would be sent out a check out notice when I wanted to book it with admin girl, didnt hear anything til day after appointment, received notice in post, (typed on letter was day it was printed-1 day before appointment) Girl advised it was an issue for An Post, she sent it two weeks previous, when I advised what was typed in bold on letter she then insisted original was sent 1 month before, pls contact An Post (again). Whatever about other areas of public service, HSE admin, is def overstaffed since the 'axing' of the Health Boards. She then advised I had to go back to my GP to rearrange a referral, with all associated costs and waiting times.

On a good note, Revenue have really sped up of late, love RoS.

CDfm

7mountpleasant wrote: »

now the child care allowance is going to be scrapped to enable one of the most bloated public services in the oecd keep its priviliged position allowing the goverment to conform to Begg and o'Connors idea of social justice. This hesitancy to take on the public sector unions is almost like a greek tragedy.

And you should be angry at the public sector for stealing this from you. Very angry.

CDfm

irish_bob wrote: »

benchmarking was about buying votes in the elections that followed it , cowan not tackling ps pay is also about buying votes in the coming elections , it could very well pay off , what seems as cowardice on the taoiseachs part could turn out to be clever tactics , afterall , fianna fails only priority is getting re-elected

So Cowan should take on the Unions - but will the other politcians from FG and Labour use this as an election tactic to win.

Where do they stand.

There needs to be a concensus on what to do with Public Sector Unions

7mountpleasant

CDfm wrote: »

And you should be angry at the public sector for stealing this from you. Very angry.

Nothing has been taken from me, but put yourself in the position of the many people who get this , how would you feel if all of a sudden you had to fork out circa 1200 eur for childcare on top of all ready reduced living standards, then you turn on your news and hear begg and and o'connor say they refuse to countenance any reduction in public service pay, this is not victimising the public sector, this is asking what sort of society do we have have, do we want a position that exists in continential europe were those in secure public sector and semi state employment enjoy living standards above the average on the back of their fellow citizens, do we want to go the way of france
and italy were securing a comfy public sector job is the pinnacle of ones career goals. in essence how do we allocate our limited resources through supporting the black hole that currently is our public sector or allowing the adjustment that is happening in our private sector to take place in our public sector and share the load of this rescession.