Islamic terrorists attack in Mumbai (Bombay)

mike65

Co-ordinated attacks have killed dozens in Indias primary city with western friendly locations the target, several Indian MPs are being held or are in hiding in a hotel along with others.

Mike

Kristopherus

On Sky News and all the other news networks on satellite - even bloody Fox:D

ChocolateSauce

*insert anti-theistic declaration*

merrionsq

ChocolateSauce wrote: »

*insert anti-theistic declaration*

Or, should we respect their right to express themselves?

SeanW

My first thoughts are for the victims and their families of what is clearly an act of war.

unlike this guy ...

ChocolateSauce wrote: »

*insert anti-theistic declaration*

Go on, tell us about how Islam (or at least in its Wahabist forms) is "the religion of peace" and explain why most of the terrorism, murder, bombings and rampages in this world is committed by people who were taught to hate Kaffirs from the age of 3.

I could use a good laugh.

oscarBravo

Sole and only warning to SeanW and others: if you decide to make this thread a vehicle for anti-Islamic bile, you will be permanently banned.

Not up for discussion.

turgon

Im not too familiar with the politics of India, or this attack for that matter.

As far as I know though India has a fairly stable and democratic government. Its strikes me as a pity then when these attacks occur, de stabilizing regions where the government is actually there (unlike, say Iraq)

mumhaabu

What are the chances this is Kashmiri related??

IRISH RAIL

highly likely reports from haaretz say the terrorists spoke urdu with a kashmere accent.
atm its still ongoing with two blasts reported at the chabad centre in the south of the city.
indian commandos are storming each location but it looks at the moment to be a disaster.
very bad press coming from there right now this could be for operational reasons.
and the likelyhood of it spiralling out of control with an indian pakistan conflict is high it would get out of control very quickly, this is one attack that has hit them very hard and right on a nerve.
the next move i think is up to mr Singh the indian pm

FTA69

SeanW wrote: »

My first thoughts are for the victims and their families of what is clearly an act of war.

unlike this guy ...

Go on, tell us about how Islam (or at least in its Wahabist forms) is "the religion of peace" and explain why most of the terrorism, murder, bombings and rampages in this world is committed by people who were taught to hate Kaffirs from the age of 3.

I could use a good laugh.

I know, the way these pinko-liberals go on you'd swear Christian nations were off invading places and aerially bombarding them.

jonny72

SeanW wrote: »

My first thoughts are for the victims and their families of what is clearly an act of war.

unlike this guy ...

Go on, tell us about how Islam (or at least in its Wahabist forms) is "the religion of peace" and explain why most of the terrorism, murder, bombings and rampages in this world is committed by people who were taught to hate Kaffirs from the age of 3.

I could use a good laugh.

Theres been plenty of horrendous acts in India recently what makes this so special that it deserves the 'act of war' declaration.

Wow all these decades and centuries and horror and terror and murder and bombings from Islam.. oh wait.. yes thats right.. 2001.. you getting it yet?

Nodin

turgon wrote: »

Im not too familiar with the politics of India, or this attack for that matter.

As far as I know though India has a fairly stable and democratic government.

...however its provinces see a great deal of sectarian conflict between Christian and Hindu (particularily bad this year), Hindu and Muslim, as well as upper caste Hindu v lower caste Hindu. Plus theres one or two groups of seperatists.

djpbarry

IRISH RAIL wrote: »

...the likelyhood of it spiralling out of control with an indian pakistan conflict is high it would get out of control very quickly...

I don't know about that. To my memory, the US is the only country to launch a military campaign on the back of a terrorist attack (in recent years) and look how that's worked out for them. I can't imagine either India or Pakistan would be prepared to allow things to spiral out of control to such a degree.

ChocolateSauce

SeanW wrote: »

My first thoughts are for the victims and their families of what is clearly an act of war.

unlike this guy ...

Go on, tell us about how Islam (or at least in its Wahabist forms) is "the religion of peace" and explain why most of the terrorism, murder, bombings and rampages in this world is committed by people who were taught to hate Kaffirs from the age of 3.

I could use a good laugh.

I would, but that isn't what I believe. You seem to have gotten my statement confused with its anti-thesis? Anyway, I like this forum so I don't feel the need to permanantly banned by going off topic.

Ahem....back on topic, India is now blaming its neighbours for harbouring the terrorist. I don't think this will result in better ties between India and Pakistan. I think it is a diplomatic insult to do such a thing.

wes

ChocolateSauce wrote: »

Ahem....back on topic, India is now blaming its neighbours for harbouring the terrorist. I don't think this will result in better ties between India and Pakistan. I think it is a diplomatic insult to do such a thing.

India, has a habit of blaming, pretty much everything they can on Pakistan. The Pakistani government, are no position to attack India, as they are basically fighting a civil war, in there tribal regions.

I don't doubt the terrorists involved want relations to worsen, between the 2 countries.

ChocolateSauce

wes wrote: »

I don't doubt the terrorists involved want relations to worsen, between the 2 countries.

Me either. The fact that they are both nuclear-armed isn't a nice thought either. They both have policies of not striking first (with nukes), so in the event of war this will hopefully take effect....but when Pakistan started loosing, they might get desperate and it is full of militant Muslims who would love to get their hands on a nuclear arsenal.

I wouldn't be entirely surprised, however, if the US anticipated such a thing and had a plan to deprive Pakistan of its nukes in the event of a fundamentalist take-over.

wes

ChocolateSauce wrote: »

Me either. The fact that they are both nuclear-armed isn't a nice thought either. They both have policies of not striking first (with nukes), so in the event of war this will hopefully take effect....but when Pakistan started loosing, they might get desperate and it is full of militant Muslims who would love to get their hands on a nuclear arsenal.

I don't think India, would be insane enough to try and occupy Pakistan. They have enough trouble with Kashmir as it is. Also, the war between the 2 have never really had either side completely win out. The most likely situation, is a long prolonged war, were thousands (potentially millions) would die.

ChocolateSauce wrote: »

I wouldn't be entirely surprised, however, if the US anticipated such a thing and had a plan to deprive Pakistan of its nukes in the event of a fundamentalist take-over.

I think a US invasion would pretty much, end with fundamentalist getting the Nukes.

Also, the fundamentalists are in no position to take over all of Pakistan. There is potential for the tribal regions to split, but for them to take over the whole country is unlikely imho. Remember, while there is a religous element to the militants in the tribal belt, there is also the simple fact that they are ethnically and cultural different from other parts of Pakistan and that this plays just as much of a role in what going on there.

merrionsq

FTA69 wrote: »

I know, the way these pinko-liberals go on you'd swear Christian nations were off invading places and aerially bombarding them.

Yeh man, no-one like has the right to criticize them, or why they did it, cause other people are doing bad sh1t as well for different reasons.

djpbarry

ChocolateSauce wrote: »

I wouldn't be entirely surprised, however, if the US anticipated such a thing and had a plan to deprive Pakistan of its nukes in the event of a fundamentalist take-over.

As wes has said, US interventions don't tend to end well and it's probably the worst thing that could happen in the region at the moment.

I'm probably just repeating wes again here too, but, as he alluded to, a fundamentalist takeover of Pakistan is extremely unlikely and is not something that any of us should concern ourselves with. Remember that the fundamentalists are targeting Pakistani civilians on a regular basis and they have virtually no support among the general populace. A Sinn Féin takeover of Ireland is probably more likely at this point.

IRISH RAIL

Its been rumored in the past that the ICI have been involved in attacks on indian soil, must see if theres any proof of that
but look at the scale of this attack multiple locations each with its own significance high class hotels etc
could be that india will want revenge for economic losses from these guys and who better to blame than those sneeky b+()*)&^%%$ next door

djpbarry

IRISH RAIL wrote: »

...but look at the scale of this attack multiple locations each with its own significance high class hotels etc

Look at the level of sophistication that was involved in the attacks on the WTC and Pentagon. It was still a terrorist attack though (unless you want to delve into the realms of the conspiracy theorist).

Sand

I'm confused - I didnt know India was working hand in hand with the evil Zionist Israelis to murder as many innocent Palestinians as possible? Or that they were an imperialistic power invading the middle east for oil? What does this mean for those who believe these are the root causes of all Islamic....wait, not, Arabic....nah....middle eastern? .....something terrorism?

The most ironic thing I saw today was an Richard Whelan [ who wrote a very good book on Islamic terrorism by the way] in the Irish Times claiming that Al Queda "detests western-style progress and democracy which makes more difficult its task of restoring the Islamic Caliphate and imposing Sharia law".

Doesnt he know its dreadfully common of him to claim that "they hate our freedoms"?

wes

Sand wrote: »

I'm confused - I didnt know India was working hand in hand with the evil Zionist Israelis to murder as many innocent Palestinians as possible? Or that they were an imperialistic power invading the middle east for oil? What does this mean for those who believe these are the root causes of all Islamic....wait, not, Arabic....nah....middle eastern? .....something terrorism?

No one is making any such suggestions. You seem to be alone in that here.

Also, you do realize, there are several major extremist groups in India. There are Hindu, Muslim and Maoist groups. Who engage in attacks for various local reasons.

Sand wrote: »

The most ironic thing I saw today was an Richard Whelan [ who wrote a very good book on Islamic terrorism by the way] in the Irish Times claiming that Al Queda "detests western-style progress and democracy which makes more difficult its task of restoring the Islamic Caliphate and imposing Sharia law".

Yes, they do. However, Al Qaeda, may very well not be involved in this. Also, there motivations include ending occupation of Muslim lands and they would consider Kashmir occupied as well. So if there involved, its fits there stated past reasoning.

Sand wrote: »

Doesnt he know its dreadfully common of him to claim that "they hate our freedoms"?

I would say its far more complicated, than a simple sound bite.

IRISH RAIL

djpbarry wrote: »

Look at the level of sophistication that was involved in the attacks on the WTC and Pentagon. It was still a terrorist attack though (unless you want to delve into the realms of the conspiracy theorist).

not a chance do i want to even go there but i dont think these guys are on the same scale as al qaida. and al qaida had immunity in afganistan to plan all that, also when these new groups spring up it always raises a question in my head who are financing them, theres not a global fund for these guys it has to come down to a few common denominators.

this mornings events are interesting the times india reporting the attacker who survived from the railway station claims pakistan helped him.
pakistan are reportedly sending a senior official to assist.
a trawler has been found with the captains throat slit (sky news seem to be making a big deal of the fact a gps was found im assuming most trawlers would have these)

and the toll continues to rise how sad

wes

IRISH RAIL wrote: »

this mornings events are interesting the times india reporting the attacker who survived from the railway station claims pakistan helped him.
pakistan are reportedly sending a senior official to assist.

I wouldn't trust the media reports too much at this early stage. All kind of claims are being made and retracted. Some papers were reporting that British Pakistani's were involved and I just saw on Sky News, that a Indian Minister (who the papers claimed said it), denys saying any such thing.

So, I would take these claims with a bit of salt for a little while.

purple'n'gold

ChocolateSauce wrote: »

Me either. The fact that they are both nuclear-armed isn't a nice thought either. They both have policies of not striking first (with nukes), so in the event of war this will hopefully take effect....but when Pakistan started loosing, they might get desperate and it is full of militant Muslims who would love to get their hands on a nuclear arsenal.

I wouldn't be entirely surprised, however, if the US anticipated such a thing and had a plan to deprive Pakistan of its nukes in the event of a fundamentalist take-over.

How would the USA go about doing that? Depriving Pakistan of their nukes? Invade Pakistan?

Nodin

Sand wrote: »

I'm confused - I didnt know India was working hand in hand with the evil Zionist Israelis to murder as many innocent Palestinians as possible? Or that they were an imperialistic power invading the middle east for oil? What does this mean for those who believe these are the root causes of all Islamic....wait, not, Arabic....nah....middle eastern? .....something terrorism?

You've heard of Kashmir, presumably? And are aware of tensions between Hindu, Sikh, Christian and Muslim in India?

pratheesh

IRISH RAIL wrote: »

(sky news seem to be making a big deal of the fact a gps was found im assuming most trawlers would have these)
(

The reason they were focussing on the gps was the fact that they found coordinates for a return trip to a port in pakistan, which could suggest that some of these terrorists had plans to return back.

pratheesh

IRISH RAIL wrote: »

Its been rumored in the past that the ICI have been involved in attacks on indian soil, must see if theres any proof of that

I know Indian Authorities keep blaming Pakistan Military, especially their ISI (Inter Services Intelligence) for assisting and training terrorists in attacking Indian soil. But there is good cause for this. My Dad served in the Indian Airforce for 35 years and has seen action twice involving Pakistan in 1971 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indo-Pakistani_War_of_1971) and more recently 1999 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kargil_War) and we have ample reasons to believe in the validity of these blames.
Both these wars ended in decisive victory for Indian armed forces. If you read about Kargil war and see pictures and videos you'll find that even though Pakistan army denied any involvement at first, it was their military leaders who ultimately had to come forward and accept the bodies of their soldiers who were with the militants actively involved.

Nodin

pratheesh wrote: »

I know ...(snip)....actively involved.

Indeedy. The Pakistani Government might be univolved, but the ISI and/or the army behind it. It's early days yet.

pratheesh

Heard on cnn live (i've spent best part of past three days and nights watching it) that, One of the terrorists apprehended said that they were trained by LET (lashkar e toiba), a militant group based in Pakistan for three months.
They were 12 in total, came via a merchant ship from pakistan, hijacked a indian fishing vessel, killed 4 crew on the spot and the rest after they reached near Indian coast.
A previous team had travelled to india couple of months back to prepare collect full info on the targets.

They were made to memorise the layout of the Hotels and were to travel in groups of two and to "kill till they were killed". Urine tests revealed that they were given drugs to keep going for long.

Some parts of the whole attack seemed to have been taken straight out of the movie "The Kingdom"