Islamic terrorists attack in Mumbai (Bombay)

IRISH RAIL

ici was a typo sorry knew it was isi only time will tell if they had any involvement

on a slightly off topic rant I just wanted to give out about the star`s lack of reporting on the Chabad house that was attacked every other building was covered in detail except that maybe the star is showing there true colours ??

jonny72

Sand wrote: »

I'm confused - I didnt know India was working hand in hand with the evil Zionist Israelis to murder as many innocent Palestinians as possible? Or that they were an imperialistic power invading the middle east for oil? What does this mean for those who believe these are the root causes of all Islamic....wait, not, Arabic....nah....middle eastern? .....something terrorism?

The most ironic thing I saw today was an Richard Whelan [ who wrote a very good book on Islamic terrorism by the way] in the Irish Times claiming that Al Queda "detests western-style progress and democracy which makes more difficult its task of restoring the Islamic Caliphate and imposing Sharia law".

Doesnt he know its dreadfully common of him to claim that "they hate our freedoms"?

The bitterness in the tone of this is incredible, if only terrible events could prove points. US is a very hard target, Europe medium and everywhere else is generally a soft target. In an Al Qaeda perfect world, everywhere would be the equivalent of pre-2001 Afghanistan, with Taliban style rulings.

Medieval Christianity was infinitely more violent and terrible than extreme Islam is today, and thats where these people live, in the middle ages, with a middle ages mindset, not very hard to understand.

pratheesh

CNN Live is doing a good job. They've been telecasting round the clock live video's from all three locations. Felt very sad when they said that the 5 hostages in Chabad House were killed. We were all hoping that they will be rescued.

pratheesh

The information gathered from the captured terrorist

http://www.dancewithshadows.com/politics/the-versace-terrorist-is-captured-put-me-on-saline-i-dont-want-to-die/

http://www.dnaindia.com/mobile/report.asp?n=1210104

Sand

No one is making any such suggestions. You seem to be alone in that here.

Your response is both factual and yet not addressing the point made. You might as well have said "Water is wet". Bravo.

Also, you do realize, there are several major extremist groups in India. There are Hindu, Muslim and Maoist groups. Who engage in attacks for various local reasons.

Are there? Next youll be telling me theres a long history of Hindu-Muslim violence in India. Or that there are tensions between India and Pakistan over Kashmir. Or some other such craziness.

Yes, they do. However, Al Qaeda, may very well not be involved in this. Also, there motivations include ending occupation of Muslim lands and they would consider Kashmir occupied as well. So if there involved, its fits there stated past reasoning.

They most likely are not, as Al Qaeda is not a terrorist group with "footsoldiers" on the ground as such but rather a supporting infrastructure for various regional terrorist groups. Hence, a local Indian or Pakistani group may have carried out the attacks, with Al Qaedas involvement limited to training, funding and intelligence support.

However, many reports note that American and British nationals were singled out from the hostages, and the targeting of the Jewish center indicates that motives other than Kashmir motivated the planning and execution of the attack.

I would say its far more complicated, than a simple sound bite.

But a soundbite that is factually correct? It just amuses me that this concept was so derided, and yet its inescapable that yes, Al Qaeda despise what it views as the immorality, secularism and "loose living" of the west and despises and fears such influences on the Muslim world. Hence the attacks on the hotels frequented by westerners and the Indian elite.

If anything, the viewpoint that ignores the jihadist motivations and instead presents them as merely a reactionary force with no real goals or aims of their own is perhaps the source of the most simplistic soundbites.

The bitterness in the tone of this is incredible, if only terrible events could prove points. US is a very hard target, Europe medium and everywhere else is generally a soft target. In an Al Qaeda perfect world, everywhere would be the equivalent of pre-2001 Afghanistan, with Taliban style rulings.

Medieval Christianity was infinitely more violent and terrible than extreme Islam is today, and thats where these people live, in the middle ages, with a middle ages mindset, not very hard to understand.

I've read this a couple of times, but Im still stuggling to grasp if there was a point. Feel free to have another go.

wes

Sand wrote: »

Your response is both factual and yet not addressing the point made. You might as well have said "Water is wet". Bravo.

Your clearly looking for an argument. Sorry no going to give it to you on this. The world is way more complicated, than your trying to make it out to be.

Sand wrote: »

Are there? Next youll be telling me theres a long history of Hindu-Muslim violence in India. Or that there are tensions between India and Pakistan over Kashmir. Or some other such craziness.

There is tension between all communities. Communal violence is very common. Just last month Christians were being murdered in India. Violence in India, is common across all communities, yes and Muslims are very much involved in it, as well as at time being victims.

Sand wrote: »

They most likely are not, as Al Qaeda is not a terrorist group with "footsoldiers" on the ground as such but rather a supporting infrastructure for various regional terrorist groups. Hence, a local Indian or Pakistani group may have carried out the attacks, with Al Qaedas involvement limited to training, funding and intelligence support.

These groups, existed long before Al Qaeda. They have there own networks and there own tactics. The attackers seems to be taking tactics from Lakshar E Toba (or however you spell it). Its possible, they didn't even assist, as these groups are capable of stuff on there own.

Sand wrote: »

However, many reports note that American and British nationals were singled out from the hostages, and the targeting of the Jewish center indicates that motives other than Kashmir motivated the planning and execution of the attack.

The vast majority killed were Indians. This is being ignored by so many. Attacking foreigners gurantees publicity. They may have other reason true, but Kashmir is probably the main one, due to the majority of targets being locals.

Sand wrote: »

But a soundbite that is factually correct? It just amuses me that this concept was so derided, and yet its inescapable that yes, Al Qaeda despise what it views as the immorality, secularism and "loose living" of the west and despises and fears such influences on the Muslim world. Hence the attacks on the hotels frequented by westerners and the Indian elite.

Your partially correct. The problem is that the sound bite, simplifies things, which have multiple reasons. They hate the West, but I think it ridiculous to pretend that the mass graves in Kashmir, aren't a great motivator here. I actually agree with you to a degree, but I find it hard to believe stuff like, the mass murder of civilians doesn't piss people off.

Sand wrote: »

If anything, the viewpoint that ignores the jihadist motivations and instead presents them as merely a reactionary force with no real goals or aims of their own is perhaps the source of the most simplistic soundbites.

I agree with you there. However, the "they hate us for the freedom", is just as bad. There motivations are a combination of both a hatred for the West and revenge for stuff both real and imagined. There is no reason, why it can't be both, seeing as they tend to go about there hatred of the West, as well as stuff like Iraq and Kashmir. People are capable of complex motivations and these guys are no different.

To say its one or the other, is a disservice to the situation. Look these people are monsters, no 2 ways about it. However, mass graves in Kashmir and other atrocities, give these guys ammunition, not to mention being terrible crimes in there own right.

IRISH RAIL

pratheesh wrote: »

CNN Live is doing a good job. They've been telecasting round the clock live video's from all three locations. Felt very sad when they said that the 5 hostages in Chabad House were killed. We were all hoping that they will be rescued.

unfortunatly haaretz and ynet are reporting 9 now 7 identified

nickpr53

pratheesh wrote: »

They were made to memorise the layout of the Hotels and were to travel in groups of two and to "kill till they were killed".

eeeem.. it's not exactly that hard to go to a city, perhaps one you've visited before, and memmorize a couple of rather memorable buildings and street names.

No you might wanna ask yourself this though. why was the synagogue left for last? when it could have been such a small operation, why did it take 62 hours? since when do such sieges take 62 hours?

Is the indian security forces incompetent.. or is possible at all that there's a purpose to this all?

http://www.spinwhip.com/mumbai

nickpr53

wes is right, the targetting of foreigners was only for the purpose of global publicity.

why? I reckon... global publicity increase the sense indians will have in having to respond, and fight with pakistan.

perversely though, this works both ways.. because I reckon.. this is exactly what the terrorists wanted.. why? http://www.spinwhip.com/mumbai ... to free themselves in pakistan from the central government, which WILL break if war occurs.. it is at it's weakest since decades..

jonny72

Sand wrote: »

But a soundbite that is factually correct? It just amuses me that this concept was so derided, and yet its inescapable that yes, Al Qaeda despise what it views as the immorality, secularism and "loose living" of the west and despises and fears such influences on the Muslim world."

Right

Hence the attacks on the hotels frequented by westerners and the Indian elite.

Mostly wrong. This is part of the brain-washing and trying to encourage the masses, but its mainly about hate, revenge, and point scoring. Islam just happens to be an incredibly efficient tool for this.

You could harp on about the Hindus hating the Christians in India because they 'hate their freedums' or some rubbish, but its just down to simple basic human emotions, manipulated into mob mentalities. Certain religions, as I said, make great tools for violence and the justification for it.

US/Russian foreign policy and 'evil zionism' has a lot to do with creating this hate in the first place. Denying that is like saying the IRA would have been bombing London anyway if the English had never invaded Ireland.