Any update on the GLUAS?

PopeBuckfastXVI

PopeBuckfastXVI wrote: »

No offence intended pg

None taken. You'd have very thin skin if you took stuff said on the internet personally.

Going back to Clermont-Ferrand the city I lived in for nine months.
They didn't just decide to go out and spend a few hundred million putting down tramlines because the traffic was bad.

They had quality bus corridors with traffic lights that gave the bus priority.
They had airconditioned bendy busses etc. This meant that the routes were well establised and developed, so when they decided to put trams on the busiest / most important routes it was a matter of upgrading the existing routes.

We have limited funds to invest.

My preference for using this is:
1. Build a well engineered outer bypass, with no roundabouts or traffic lights.
This would take alot of the congestion away at peak times.

2. Widen the main arteries into the city with the extra space being used for QBCs and shelters. This could be done relatively quickly and at low cost.

3. Tram - if there was an outer bypass and existing dedicated routes it would be much easier to justify closing bridges / city centre roads to traffic both for the build period and if we wanted for ever.

Lockstep

Deleted User wrote: »

For a tram to have dedicated use of a bridge like Wolfe Tone or the Salmon Weir bridge would involve closing the headford road, merchants road and eglinton street (and bohermore) to car traffic.

On the website the say that they will share the road with cars in someplaces but then how is that different from buslanes on different routes into / around town?

It would not need "dedicated" use of roads. Trams in other countries share the roads.

Buses are far more difficult to track given the fact they are much bigger cars. THat's about it. People are very willing to park in one way streets and block traffic (As happens in Shantallagh) but would be far less willing to


I'd be more in favor of making the city centre pedestrianised except for special reasons (residency etc) and creating a tramline stopping off at the city boundaries.
THe congestion in the city centre is horrendous.

Deleted User wrote: »

I lived in one of the cities listed as an example and I have to say that there is no comparison. That city had a direct population about 3 to 4 times the size of Galway, it already had nice broad boulevards into and around the city centre and had a much denser population.

For Galway to have the same population + density everyone in Galway county would have to move inside the existing city boundaries.

I've lived in a fair few (Brussels, Strasbourg)
We need the infrastructure to see the place develop. How many hours do we spend caught up in heavy traffic every week? This certainly hurts Galway's economy/environment.
Having a decent public transport service would go a nice way towards developing and growing Galway.

kickoutthejams

kickoutthejams wrote: »

It would not need "dedicated" use of roads. Trams in other countries share the roads.

I agree but as the city is congested as it is with people driving from as far away as Mayo and Clare each day, trams would just get caught in that congestion.

kickoutthejams wrote: »

People are very willing to park in one way streets and block traffic (As happens in Shantallagh) but would be far less willing to

I am not familiar with that. Is it legal to park there?

kickoutthejams wrote: »

I'd be more in favor of making the city centre pedestrianised except for special reasons (residency etc) and creating a tramline stopping off at the city boundaries.

I have no objections to more pedestrianisation but trams stopping at the city centre boundaries would be pretty pointless given the amount of cross town traffic between the housing estates on the west and the industrial ones in the east.

pinder

kickoutthejams,i take your point about jobs.disagree with you about the roads,and i live in westside.it takes me 10 to 15 minutes to walk through town to the top of prospect hill.in that regard we dont need one.no i dont actually use buses much because i can walk everywhere,galway is too small for something like this.in relation to the recession,the proposed cost is 200million,as we all know if it was done it would probably go well over that.are you telling me that a government that wont spend 10million on a cervical cancer treatment for 12year old girls will spend upwards off 200million on something we dont really need?i go back to my earlier point on sorting out the water system,something we actually need.maybe the bus system is bad,how about spending a fraction of the money to make it top class?how about spending the money to save the cancer services in the northwest.there are a massive amount of things that should take priority over this

PopeBuckfastXVI

Well Pinder would you be against a private company doing it, with permission from the council?

I would be very much in favour of that, rather than another cushy semi state beurocratic mess.

leninbenjamin

Deleted User wrote: »

I am not familiar with that. Is it legal to park there?

no. and it happens every day. it's quite often the Knocknacarra buses get delayed around there. especially at the school, people just park in the middle of the road there and get out to collect their kids and have a leisurely chat with the other mammies and daddies.

It's also ridiculous that despite the rapid huge amount of growth in Knocknacarra over the last decade we still rely on the one bus route that practically goes everywhere on the westside and seems to serve Knocknacarra as an afterthought.

more roads won't solve the problem either. Yes, a bypass would be f*cking fantastic But this country has shown time and time again that simply adding to the road network does nothing to relieve traffic over time. I personally cannot understand why someone wouldn't be in favour of restricting the likes of Eglington street and a maybe one of the bridges to buses only if it would result in a better service and more people availing of it. Why reduce the amount of time sitting in traffic instead of having a public transport system that's constantly moving?

Not only that, it would be great for the cities image to pedestrianise more of the place and build up the infrastructure. We are a city that relies heavily on tourism afterall. And cities with good public transport systems are cleaner and much more pleasant places

Chris_533976

I havent heard anything about GLUAS recently and I hope I never hear any more about it. Its a useless, wasteful pile of ill thought out nonsense.

leninbenjamin

pinder wrote: »

and i live in westside.it takes me 10 to 15 minutes to walk through town to the top of prospect hill.in that regard we dont need one.no i dont actually use buses much because i can walk everywhere,galway is too small for something like this.

get real. fair enough you live in Westside. over 10,000 people live in Kocknacarra. that's the guts of a 45 minute walk to the centre of town for most people. Are you suggesting Galway is actually small enough for people to walk everywhere?

seeing as you live in Westside and obviously have never experienced the problems most people in Galway face on a daily basis, what makes you think you're in a position to comment on what is or isn't needed here?

biko

They should rename it GSPEED

happyoutscan

I think it's a great idea but wouldn't trust any of the blundering idiots in charge to ensure it was properly designed and constructed etc.

Lockstep

Deleted User wrote: »

I agree but as the city is congested as it is with people driving from as far away as Mayo and Clare each day, trams would just get caught in that congestion.

Hence the need for pedestrianisation of the city centre. Also, traffic would be cut down from people within Galway itself.

Deleted User wrote: »

I am not familiar with that. Is it legal to park there?

Not in some of the narrow streets which parents seem to live parking their arses on,

Deleted User wrote: »

I have no objections to more pedestrianisation but trams stopping at the city centre boundaries would be pretty pointless given the amount of cross town traffic between the housing estates on the west and the industrial ones in the east.

I don;'t get it.
Why would it be pointless?

pinder wrote: »

kickoutthejams,i take your point about jobs.disagree with you about the roads,and i live in westside.it takes me 10 to 15 minutes to walk through town to the top of prospect hill.in that regard we dont need one.

That's very nice for you.
Sadly, not everyone lives that close.

pinder wrote: »

no i dont actually use buses much because i can walk everywhere,galway is too small for something like this.

It is for those living in town.
Again, not everyone does.

pinder wrote: »

in relation to the recession,the proposed cost is 200million,as we all know if it was done it would probably go well over that.

The government needs to spend money to increase infrastructure (leading to trade and son on)
As I previously pointed out, this increases trade, growth, more jobs in the construction and running of Luas etc.

pinder wrote: »

are you telling me that a government that wont spend 10million on a cervical cancer treatment for 12year old girls will spend upwards off 200million on something we dont really need?

SInce when has this government ever done what seemed logical?

pinder wrote: »

i go back to my earlier point on sorting out the water system,something we actually need.maybe the bus system is bad,how about spending a fraction of the money to make it top class?how about spending the money to save the cancer services in the northwest.there are a massive amount of things that should take priority over this

You seem to be under the assumptuon that the government lacks the resources for all this.

leninbenjamin

kickoutthejams wrote: »

I don;'t get it.
Why would it be pointless?

because a huge amount of the traffic comes from people going cross town. currently it's catering for this crosstown traffic that is what represents the weakest* aspect of our public transport system in Galway. so to have the service stop at the boundaries makes no sense imo.






*by weakest i mean virtually non existent.

pinder

saying when has the government thought logicaly isnt the brightest comment.the fact is the backlash from the rest of the country if this was to go ahead would be massive.if a company was to come in and do it that would solve that problem,your right.when you moved wherever you did ,did you put all your hope for getting into town on the gluas?stupid question,but you knew how far it was from town when you moved there,so that point is gone.with the imminent bank bailouts and budget cutbacks we cant be throughing money into something we dont really need,thats exactly what im saying.the fact is we dont need one,we wont be able to get the money for one,we dont have the population for one.if we were to even put 50million into developing the bus system.how can you talk about improving infrastructure when we need to improve even the basics of our infrastructure,a lot of people would like some money spent on the claregalway and tuam fiasco.there is a long list of things more worthy than something that will make getting into town easier for a few thousand people

leninbenjamin

pinder wrote: »

but you knew how far it was from town when you moved there,

seriously man, you haven't a clue. When we moved here it took about 5 to 10 minutes to get into town and get parked. now it takes the guts of half an hour, off peak, to do that. please stop commenting on that which you know nothing about.

it's not just about making life easier either. You do realise that the shambolic infrastructure is one of biggest impediments to industry in this country? improve the infrastructure, make Galway a more attractive and more importantly productive place to work. relieve pressure on the other over developed urban centres in this country, attract investment and thus more income for all and sundry, to spend on your stupid and pointless things like keeping the cancer care services (if they can even be called that) in the northwest.

it's called seeing the bigger picture. Education and infrastructure are the two most important things we need to be spending on right now in this country. only then should piss our money away down the black-holes like our health system**, if that's how your so inclined.

**just for the record and to clear up any potential confusion/hostility, the health system is the biggest drain on our countries resources. if we compare spending to returns we have probably the worst health care system in Europe. there's no point pissing more money down the drain keeping open facilities that barely have the expertise and equipment to make effective diagnosis, that's not going to solve anybodies problems in the long run.

My main objection to this is that the money could go a lot further if used on dedicated quality bus corridors, new busses, shelters, realtime schedules, electronic ticketing, cameras on the busses both to protect the drivers, passengers and to catch people driving in the bus lanes.

@ leninbenjamin - the Gluas only proposes one route to Knocknacarragh

If people don't obey the parking laws now why would they do it on streets they share with a tram. I saw a car parked with about a foot going into a dedicated way blocking traffic. The driver sounded his bell a couple of times, noone showed up so he pushed it out of the way with the tram.

I would really like a tram in this city and think it would be possible to upgrade to one in the future but at the moment I think there are better ways of spending the money.

Lockstep

pinder wrote: »

when you moved wherever you did ,did you put all your hope for getting into town on the gluas?stupid question,but you knew how far it was from town when you moved there,so that point is gone

That is a terrible argument.
Because I moved out where I did, I can't use the point that better public transport is needed to get from there into town?

I really wished I lived in a world as simple as yours.
You don't seem to understand the myriad of things that feed into where people live.

When I first moved to this country I was sick and saw how crappy the healthcare system is. Does that mean I can't complain about the Irish healthcare system?

pinder wrote: »

saying when has the government thought logicaly isnt the brightest comment.

Oh sweet irony...

pinder wrote: »

the fact is the backlash from the rest of the country if this was to go ahead would be massive.if a company was to come in and do it that would solve that problem,your right.

Yes, God forbid that extra money is put into developing the West.
I was at a conference a few weeks ago where most of the crowd from Dublin were late. When they eventually turned up they sheepishly admitted they didn't realise how terrible the transport was out in ths sticks.

pinder wrote: »

with the imminent bank bailouts and budget cutbacks we cant be throughing money into something we dont really need,thats exactly what im saying.the fact is we dont need one,we wont be able to get the money for one,we dont have the population for one.

YOu do realise that getting out of a recession doesn't involve frantically saving money in any way possible? How many times has that been tried only to end in disaster.
It's far more about investing in the right areas (such as developing infrastructures)

pinder wrote: »

if we were to even put 50million into developing the bus system.how can you talk about improving infrastructure when we need to improve even the basics of our infrastructure,a lot of people would like some money spent on the claregalway and tuam fiasco.

Creating a public mass transit system, helping the environment and reducing the terrible traffic congestion is something that doesnt need improving?

pinder wrote: »

there is a long list of things more worthy than something that will make getting into town easier for a few thousand people

It's very nice for you living in Westside. maybe take the time to consider what it might be like for people living further out.

kraggy

Deleted User wrote: »

My main objection to this is that the money could go a lot further if used on dedicated quality bus corridors, new busses, shelters, realtime schedules, electronic ticketing, cameras on the busses both to protect the drivers, passengers and to catch people driving in the bus lanes.

@ leninbenjamin - the Gluas only proposes one route to Knocknacarragh

If people don't obey the parking laws now why would they do it on streets they share with a tram. I saw a car parked with about a foot going into a dedicated way blocking traffic. The driver sounded his bell a couple of times, noone showed up so he pushed it out of the way with the tram.

I would really like a tram in this city and think it would be possible to upgrade to one in the future but at the moment I think there are better ways of spending the money.

Two major obstacles and shortcomings to and of having dedicated bus lanes in Galway are:

a. The narrow streets make it almost pointless

b. The size of the buses they're using at the moment. They just hold up traffic for those who have no choice but to use their cars because they're not living on bus routes in the first place.

kraggy

kraggy wrote: »

a. The narrow streets make it almost pointless

I agree but was thinking more of in the suburbs and main arteries into and around the city rather than along bohermore or dominic street

Mrs OBumble

Deleted User wrote: »

My main objection to this is that the money could go a lot further if used on dedicated quality bus corridors, new busses, shelters, realtime schedules, electronic ticketing, cameras on the busses both to protect the drivers, passengers and to catch people driving in the bus lanes.

I would really like a tram in this city and think it would be possible to upgrade to one in the future but at the moment I think there are better ways of spending the money.

Sady, I think you're right: I'd love an effective tram system, but given the geography (sprawled in various directions, low population density in each one), I don't think there will be enough passengers to justify a service that runs frequently enough to really get people out of their cars.

However some relatively low-cost spending on the bus network (just how much can a bus-shelter cost???) would make a difference. However I'm convinced that service-frequency is the key: it doesn't matter so much if a bus is missing if the next one is only 10-15 minutes behind it, but 30 minutes later is a long time.

Today's Galway Worst ... sorry First ... says that following a review of the Salthill/Knocknacarra service, a revised service is planned with 10-15 minute frequency. About time. Fingers crossed they get it right, like they did with route 9.

(I'm thinking that the local Bus Eireann guys know full well what is needed, but have to go through a political process to get funding to buy more buses - just a guess, but it seems that the network is run very tightly: at times they have to borrow long-distance buses for the city routes)

Someone earlier on mentioned pedestrian-ising the city centre. I'm not sure this would be practical:

• all cross river traffic would have to go over the Qunicentennial bridge ('cos the other bridges are all in the centre)
• a lot of people live in the centre (policy is that all new buildings here must be mixed use and include accommodation). We need to get our groceries home, rubbish collected, elderly relatives dropped off at the front door etc. I live very happily without a car, but even so I hire one (or a taxi) every few weeks for this and that. I'm also a lot younger and fitter than some of the elderly folks who are in some of the houses/flats here.
• they encourage anti-social behaviour: the thought that a car might come along the road and see what's happening seems to discourage a certain class of thug, while a pedestrian-only street seems to encourage the street-drinkers to hang out.

It's not low-cost, but I do think that moving a couple of secondary schools from the west to the east side would make a big difference too.

pinder

kick out the jams,you dont seem to be listening to me,all my points are valid.your saying developing infrastructure is what should be done in a recession,thats fair enough.but if you dont have the population and if we have better things to spend it on it is not the answer.you cannot say develop the west and thats it.companies and/or the government will not spend upwards of 200million if we dont have the population.i mean,i really dont know how to make it any simpler for you so here it goes:if cost of building +cost of running>money from passengers =no gluas.do you understand now??

JustMary

JustMary wrote: »

Today's Galway Worst ... sorry First ... says that following a review of the Salthill/Knocknacarra service, a revised service is planned with 10-15 minute frequency. About time. Fingers crossed they get it right, like they did with route 9.

I read that and the website seems to not like me so I can't give a quote but that news was courtesy of one of our local politicians - Frank Fahey so I would take it with a grain of salt.

Lockstep

pinder wrote: »

kick out the jams,you dont seem to be listening to me,

GIven that I to a quote by quote argument against your points, how can I be listening.

pinder wrote: »

all my points are valid.

I'd disagree.
Especially as regards to the one about me not having a point about the lack of infrastructure as I knew the distance.

pinder wrote: »

your saying developing infrastructure is what should be done in a recession,thats fair enough.but if you dont have the population and if we have better things to spend it on it is not the answer.

You do realise that developing infrastructure increases population/efficiency getting to and from urban areas and so on.
A strong infrastructure precedes a growing population.

The old "we have better things to spend money on" appears every time anyone suggests anything that the government could spend it's money on.It just doesn't cut it as there are many different things needed. This is one of them.

pinder wrote: »

you cannot say develop the west and thats it.

Oh good lord....
Wherever did I say that?

pinder wrote: »

companies and/or the government will not spend upwards of 200million if we dont have the population.

You keep referring back to the population again and again. I don't think you understand what it is like living outside of the city centre. YOu live in Westside. Good for you. However, not everyone does and until you understand how terrible traffic and congestion is for others, you'll have a tough time understanding anyone who supports the GLuas.

At any rate, building the Gluas would lead to a higher population. Build it and they will come.
etc

pinder wrote: »

i mean,i really dont know how to make it any simpler for you so here it goes:if cost of building +cost of running>money from passengers =no gluas.

WHere is your evidence for this?

pinder wrote: »

do you understand now??

I don't think you do.

The_Conductor

pinder wrote: »

i cant believe this is still beng talked about,where would they put this gluas?am i the only one that sees its impossible.heres why it wont happen 1-streets too narrow,unless it goes around the square and thats it,somehow i dont think so 2-recession 3-it takes about ten minutes to walk from one end of the city to the other,its not a big city by any stretch of the imagination. and 4-the bus service here is grand.how bout spendin the money on the third world water system we have

I agree with you big time.
If there is money to spare- invest it in a reasonable safe, drinking water system- and get the problems at Mutton Island sorted too- while they're at it. The loss of two blue flags was shameful.

The_Conductor

kickoutthejams wrote: »

At any rate, building the Gluas would lead to a higher population. Build it and they will come.
etc

From where?
We've the lowest population density in Europe after all.
I think its wholly wishful to be honest.
I'd be perfectly happy if I didn't have to drag bottled water up 4 flights of stairs........

Tawny

Does anyone remember this?

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055015936

There is a graveyard somewhere in Galway where all good plans go to rest.

Lockstep

smccarrick wrote: »

From where?
We've the lowest population density in Europe after all.
I think its wholly wishful to be honest.
I'd be perfectly happy if I didn't have to drag bottled water up 4 flights of stairs........

From where?
Anywhere really, strong infrastructure is a necessary aspect of growth.

The_Conductor

kickoutthejams wrote: »

From where?
Anywhere really, strong infrastructure is a necessary aspect of growth.

Explain this to your councilors who refuse planning permission out Barna direction because it would "infringe on the cultural characteristics of the area".

If the local businesses are certain that it is a economically viable project- let them fund the building of it (I think you'll find their enthusiasm rapidly waning). Government money would be much better spent in the first instance on sorting the water and sewage problems........

leninbenjamin

smccarrick wrote: »

The loss of two blue flags was shameful.

we never really had them in the first place. it was some 'creative' work by the council that led to us getting it.

Mrs OBumble

Tawny wrote: »

Does anyone remember this?

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055015936

There is a graveyard somewhere in Galway where all good plans go to rest.

To be fair, they've achieved the 15-minute frequency on Route 9, and they did put out a printed timetable. There's a bus lane (aka "quality bus corridor") on the Dublin Road, and another being built on the other side. I have a feeling that there's a bus lane somewhere on the west side of town too?

-- Not great progress for 1/3 of the time that the plan was supposed to be for, but at least some.

I suspect that the review of the Salthill service will be the next step that's implemented.

To be honest, as well as the route review and some bus shelters, I think they should focus on ticketing. We have lots of tourists: an any-service-all-day ticket would make things lots easier for them and speed up bus-loading a lot. The existing weekly and monthly tickets (which also speed up loading) are only valid on Bus Eireann, so useless if you live in an area serviced by another licenced operator. [Lots of overseas cities operate systems that allow use of anyone's services, and divide the revenue up according to usage.]

From the article in the old thread about buses - €35 million V €200 million is a big difference.

Personally I think we need to scrap rates and introduce local income taxes (with a national fund for poorer regions) to allow these decisions to be taken locally and funded locally.