Any update on the GLUAS?

Lockstep

smccarrick wrote: »

Explain this to your councilors who refuse planning permission out Barna direction because it would "infringe on the cultural characteristics of the area".

Given that the proposed line goes out to Cappagh Road, this isn't a problem for those of us living in Barna.

smccarrick wrote: »

If the local businesses are certain that it is a economically viable project- let them fund the building of it (I think you'll find their enthusiasm rapidly waning). Government money would be much better spent in the first instance on sorting the water and sewage problems........

I never said I was opposed to a private company doing this.
However, I would be wary given the balls up that City Direct is making.

pinder

you cant say that the building of this would guarantee the population needed to run it,so how do you expect someone to go out on a wing and a prayer and spend tax payers money on something that could very well be a disaster.unless a private company does it,it wont be done for a long time.to be honest i hope it doesnt because it is a waste of money

Lockstep

pinder wrote: »

you cant say that the building of this would guarantee the population needed to run it

This isn't meant to be about it being economically viable, it's meant to be about improving the services available to Galway.
As a previous poster pointed out, 6000 people taking it a day...twice ..would render it viable.
Even if it was less than that, I'd gladly pay higher taxes to see more attention paid to this living outside Galway city centre.

pinder wrote: »

,so how do you expect someone to go out on a wing and a prayer and spend tax payers money on something that could very well be a disaster.

YOu could try reading this

pinder wrote: »

unless a private company does it,it wont be done for a long time.to be honest i hope it doesnt because it is a waste of money

Of course it's a waste of money to you, as you initially started going on about how easy it is to walk everywhere in Galway purely as you lived in Westside.

PopeBuckfastXVI

kickoutthejams wrote: »

Of course it's a waste of money to you, as you initially started going on about how easy it is to walk everywhere in Galway purely as you lived in Westside.

Yes well I hope they don't build any more schools in Galway, I don't have any kids so it's a waste of money.

I hope they don't build any hospitals in Cork, I don't live there so it's a waste of money.

I hope they stop giving money to people on the dole, I have a job so it's a waste of money.

blah blah blah, me, I, myself tbh.

The_Conductor

In all fairness the Gluas website is most notable for its extremely rosy predictions and unreasonable and unrealistic comparisons used in making those predictions.

For example:

Under costs- they reckon that its possible to construct for less than 1/3 the cost of the Luas per km. How realistic is this- it doesn't sound realistic to me?

Allowing for a total outlay of EUR200m (which quite frankly is a most optimistic figure), and a projected capacity of 12,000 per day (which is highly unlikely to be met)- and running costs of approximately EUR7.2m per annum (also highly optimistic), and 290 operational running days per annum (industry norm)- they would have to charge each of their notional 12,000 passangers a fiver a ticket (EUR4.94), just to break even. Can you see people paying a fiver a ticket? I certainly can't.

Then- look at the the two comparative studies of similar projects that they've chosen in Frieburg im Breisgau in Southern Germany and Valenciennes in Northern France.

Freiburg (strictly the districts of Herdern, Guntestal and Betzenhausen) has a population of 214,500 (last census was 2006). This excludes villages on the outskirts (such as Pfaffenweilen etc- which though less than 15km from the city centre are not on their metro lines).

The arrondissement of Valenciennes in Northern France has a total population exceeding 433,000- and if you factor in the 9 cantons and 82 communes- has a population larger than Dublin city and county........ The Gluas website people instead decided to focus on the single district in the city, of the commune called Valenciennes (which coincidentally- and probably why they chose it, is where the university is located).

It is not logical to compare Galway to either region- as one is almost 8 times bigger than Galway and the other almost 15 times bigger.

Its a lovely idea- but they are really putting a most rosy tinge on every single possible aspect of the plan to try to make the figures work........

pinder

a tram for a few thousand people doesnt really compare well to schools ,hospitals and the dole.all of which are necessities

PopeBuckfastXVI

pinder wrote: »

a tram for a few thousand people doesnt really compare well to schools ,hospitals and the dole.all of which are necessities

Not to me they're not, I'm a mé féiner.

OK, just for you then: parks, sportsgrounds, busses (after all you can walk right?), streetlights, cycle paths, airport, train station, playgrounds, information kiosks, litter wardens, bins, beach showers, public toilets, christmas lights, christmas tree, eyre square etc. etc.

None are necessary, but what a drab little ****hole we'd be living in without them.

pinder

most of the things there are necessary.bins,litter wardens are a necessity.airports are necessities,buses are necessities,street lights necessities.a tram for a few thousand worth 200million is not a necessity and is not something to just brighten up the place like christmas lights,its a waste of money

PopeBuckfastXVI

pinder wrote: »

most of the things there are necessary.bins,litter wardens are a necessity.airports are necessities,buses are necessities,street lights necessities.a tram for a few thousand worth 200million is not a necessity and is not something to just brighten up the place like christmas lights,its a waste of money in my opinion

fixed for you

Edit:

Actually feck it, you're right, who needs a fast comfortable public transport system, I'll stay in the car, if I'm going to be stuck in traffic better to be in a leather seat with my own music than on some rickety old bus...

Lockstep

pinder wrote: »

most of the things there are necessary.bins,litter wardens are a necessity.airports are necessities,buses are necessities,street lights necessities.

Depends on your definition of necessary.
COuld we not privatise all of these things, therefore not making them necessary for the taxpayer?

pinder wrote: »

a tram for a few thousand worth 200million is not a necessity and is not something to just brighten up the place like christmas lights,its a waste of money

I've walked into town from Westside before.
How about you take the Bus service out to Barna (preferably in an off peak time) and then maybe you'll see other people's points of view.

Those wanting a Gluas are doing it just to lighten the place up?
Maybe....come live in the real world?

pinder

iv always agreed about the privatisation of it with ya,thats something i would not be against.and the brighten the place up thing was a reply to buckfasts message.obviously i dont think people want it to brighten up the place,that wold be stupid,as my point was making to popebuckfast

Lockstep

pinder wrote: »

iv always agreed about the privatisation of it with ya,thats something i would not be against.

Do you think all the things listed above should be privatised too?

pinder

it would probably lead to decreased wages for workers,increased ticket prices.it would probably get rid of less profitable routes aswell.theres not many pluses

Lockstep

pinder wrote: »

it would probably lead to decreased wages for workers,increased ticket prices.it would probably get rid of less profitable routes aswell.theres not many pluses

WHat exactly are you referring to here?

galwayrush

If the Goverment can't provide a Claregalway by-pass, as was promised in the pack of lies they sold us before the last election, how on earth will they ever considering funding a Gluas for Galway.:rolleyes:

€600m price tag swings argument in favour of BRT
http://www.galwaynews.ie/7456-gluas-cost-may-signal-end-plans

PLANS for the development of a light rail system in Galway have been dealt a major blow with a new report showing a Luas-type tram network for the city would be prohibitively costly at €600 million.

The preliminary report on the Public Transport Feasibility Study favours a ‘Bus Rapid Transit’ (BRT) network rather than a GLUAS-style light-rail system primarily because of cost.

Advocates of the GLUAS claim a light-rail system could be put in place in the city at a cost of €200-€250 million but the report notes it would actually cost €600 million.

The report says that although the positive image of light rail would make it more attractive for car users to change their dependence on private cars, a BRT system would be more flexible, need less infrastructure, could be developed incrementally over a number of years and would be less disruptive to build than light rail.

BRT is essentially a...

Robbo

About time someone poured a bucket of rationality over the whole thing. From the article in yesterdays Sentinel, it seems the reason for the fantastically low construction costs was that they weren't budgeting for any works outside of laying the tracks like accommodating services. It shows the project up as having been conceived of dragging crayons across a map until it made a pretty picture.

Regualr buses along arterial routes, bus lanes and the Outer Bypass is the way forward.

PopeBuckfastXVI

That's grand, I'll just stick to my old gas guzzler so...

gary82

€600,000,000?? I'd love to see an itemized breakdown of that...

The_Conductor

Robbo wrote: »

About time someone poured a bucket of rationality over the whole thing. From the article in yesterdays Sentinel, it seems the reason for the fantastically low construction costs was that they weren't budgeting for any works outside of laying the tracks like accommodating services. It shows the project up as having been conceived of dragging crayons across a map until it made a pretty picture.

Regualr buses along arterial routes, bus lanes and the Outer Bypass is the way forward.

Much as I hate to agree- you're right. I don't think there is going to be investment in anything at all in the short to medium term. Fingers crossed they get the road finished- and repair the mess they've made all around Athenry though (thats 5 tyres I had to replace in the past year.......)

galwayrush

gary82 wrote: »

€600,000,000?? I'd love to see an itemized breakdown of that...

This is Ireland, if they say 6 million at the start, it will surely end up costing way more.
I agree with Robbo above, grand idea but honestly, do you think the gob****es running the country in Dublin were ever going to put up money for this in the West of Ireland?:rolleyes:
Could i recommend out city leaders take a weekend trip to Oxford in the Uk,good roads, park and ride and proper bus lanes with high frequency busses on all routes.

pointofnoreturn

Not happy to here this news, improving what we have isn't enough as there are certain dependencies a rail system needs to operate safely and properly , this means complete control of city traffic, proper road network plan, and other services have to operate on time too. Anything like this is going to cost allot +600m or what ever number

However that said it's still needed, there is nothing sexy about public transport in Ireland It just doesn't work in the context to it does in Europe, and an ambition project to go through doesn't pay off, but rather pays off in gaining peoples trust in public transport,

Anyawys 30years away before something like this is reconsidered

Mrs OBumble

galwayrush wrote: »

but honestly, do you think the gob****es running the country in Dublin were ever going to put up money for this in the West of Ireland?:rolleyes:

I'm not surprised. Don't think it's a "don't spend money on the West" thing though, but rather a lack of people. A city the size of Galway (even with inward commuters during the working day) just isn't large enough for the infrastructure costs.

Shinto

.

s_carnage

Shinto wrote: »

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No way!??! Any source to back that up??

The_Conductor

Whats the purpose of dragging up this again?
The only update that will have occurred in the interim- is a growing understanding of just how screwed the country's finances really are- which in itself is most probably going to be the final nail in the coffin for the GLUAS......

Galway needs an effective bypass- and none of the comments about 'sure just pop up the Headford Road' - are going to cut it. Given the chop to the roads budget- they can barely pay for the upkeep of the national routes going forward- never mind anything else- even a bypass may be out of the question for the forseeable future.

We got a road network out of the boom, thats the extent of it- if people really want a GLUAS, a bypass, a new water treatment plant or other infrastructure- they had better not hold their breaths........

Shinto

My purpose of dragging this up again was because of interest. I was interested in this topic. I was reminded of the Gluas with all the talk about the M6 and outer bypass recently.

Also, i believe that if we keep raising the issue publically, it really could be done...even in this recession. It's an investment to make Galway more attractive to Multinationals.

Many governments are still investing in huge construction projects inspite of the global recession. I see it here when i look out my window. If we just say it's not going to be done, then it's dead in the water before it even starts. If public consciousness can be changed, then it will happen. There's still money hanging around in Ireland. The goverment easily found obscene amounts of money to support the banks etc.

The_Conductor

The hugh investments many governments are making around the world- particularly in infrastructure projects- are not happening in Ireland though. The opposite is happening- we have chopped our capital expenditure budget in half- and the roads authority don't even have a sufficient budget for the upkeep of our primary routes in 2010. What you're suggesting simply is not the case in an Irish context.

The only way the GLUAS is going to happen in the current context- is if it can be funded privately- and quite simply the figures don't add up- it could be done publically, if there was no expectation that you're going to get a return on your investment or that its going to pay for itself........

Galway is a lovely city- I'd go as far as to say that its the nicest city in Ireland- its very small though- and the only way the original proposal made any sense at all was with the most incredibly optimistic and rosy tinged figures, that delibertly excluded many of the costs associated with the project........

biko

An actual post would have looked better than a .

Anyhoo, don't think the tram (I hate the name GLUAS, stupid) will happen any time soon. Just not enough money for it at the moment. Sadly.
No news on http://www.gluas.ie/

Btw, cool video

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eZKdEM9tW2M

Sponge Bob

This thing is a pie in the sky fantasy dreamed up by an absolute nutter , if you read the first two pages of this thread you will realise what you are dealing with.

Even the most rabid green will not touch this with a bargepole