Dogs and Foxes

iguana

Why do dogs see foxes as prey? I know dogs have a tendency to chase anything that runs from them and foxes will almost always run from dogs. But I have seen skittish dogs run away from my dogs and my dogs have no interest in them. Yet if they disturb a fox on our walk they get so excited and just want to chase it. And not in a playful doggy playful way. We have also, quite rarely, come across foxes that don't run when the dogs were leaded and the dogs didn't react like they would to a dog.

I know dogs and foxes are completely different, but how come dogs will recognise dogs as varied as yorkies to GSDs as dogs, but see foxes as an alien species? And is there anything I can do to kill their desire to chase foxes? I can get them to sit when we see a fox, but they still quiver with desire to chase it.

shaywest

i think you will find that dogs and foxes "are" a completely different species that's why they react so differently
i don't know the exact science behind it
but you will just have to live with the fact that they are different and will react differently towards each other

peasant

Simple really:

Foxes smell like foxes and not like dogs

For 99% of the evolutionary timeline of the dog, the fox wasn't just "another species" but "the enemy".

whitser

foxes are closer to cats then they are to dogs. they arent canines like the wolf, so that probably explains why there is a natural urge to chase. can i ask what breed of dog you have?

peasant

whitser wrote: »

foxes are closer to cats then they are to dogs. they arent canines like the wolf, so that probably explains why there is a natural urge to chase.

errr ....

Canidae (IPA: /ˈkænədiː/, ′kanə′dē) is the biological family of the dogs; a member of this family is called a canid. They include wolves, foxes, coyotes, jackals. The Canidae family is divided into the "true dogs" (or canines) of the tribe Canini and the "foxes" of the tribe Vulpini.

not cats, then

whitser

foxes closer to racoons and the likes then they are to dogs. they are not dogs, they've followed a different evolution line then dogs. when i sat cat, im talking about the body. their bones are bendable like cats allowing them to squeeze in to holes that a dog cant go. also why they are much better climbers and jumpers.

Whispered

I've often thought that foxes move very similarly to cats, even though they look like dogs. The best of both worlds.

whitser

point is they are not dogs. similar to dogs, but also similar to racoons and cats. wolves/dingos etc..could mate with a dog. a fox cant. there is something about the smell of a fox that will send most dogs crazy.

Whispered

whitser wrote: »

point is they are not dogs. similar to dogs, but also similar to racoons and cats. wolves/dingos etc..could mate with a dog. a fox cant. there is something about the smell of a fox that will send most dogs crazy.

Apparently there have been "supposed" dog/fox hybrids. Something to do with different number of chromosones. And it has never been verified so maybe someone got a foxy looking pup from their bitch and just assumed it was a fox.

From wiki:

There are no reliable reports or genetic testing that proves the exisistence of dog-fox hybrids (called dox) although there are many unsubstantiated reports of such hybrids.

An unconfirmed female terrier/fox hybrid was reported, and later euthanized (killed), in the UK. British gamekeeper folklore claims that terrier bitches can produce offspring with male foxes. Other dog breeds claimed to have hybridized with foxes are the Alaskan Malamute, Sheltie, Siberian husky, and most of the hound groups. The supposed hybrids (known as a dox) are likely to be natural variation in the domestic dog.

There has been a reported cross between a domestic dog and a South American fox, but the fox was a fox-like wolf, known as the maned wolf, and not a true fox.

In Saskatchewan, Canada there was another supposed dox, this time a female miniature Sheltie with a wild fox. There was a litter of three, but only one survived. The surviving (a female) was barren, and looked like an almost pure fox, with slight variations. However, the variability of dogs in appearance makes it impossible to determine whether an animal is hybrid based on looks. In most reported cases the dox had gold or yellow eyes, wired hair, and with black red and gray hairs covering most of the body.

Tigers and lions, are they different species? It's commonly known that they can interbreed. Tigon or liger. Supposed to be huge animals.

whitser

helena.ryan wrote: »

Apparently there have been "supposed" dog/fox hybrids. Something to do with different number of chromosones. And it has never been verified so maybe someone got a foxy looking pup from their bitch and just assumed it was a fox.

From wiki:



Tigers and lions, are they different species? It's commonly known that they can interbreed. Tigon or liger. Supposed to be huge animals.

they inter breed with the help of a lab and team of scientists.

Whispered

whitser wrote: »

they inter breed with the help of a lab and team of scientists.

Who ligers?

Documentation of ligers dates to at least the early 19th century in Asia. A painting of two liger cubs was made by Étienne Geoffroy Saint-Hilaire (1772−1844). In 1825, G.B. Whittaker made an engraving of liger cubs born in 1824. The parents and their three liger offspring are also depicted with their trainer in a 19th Century painting in the naïve style.

Two liger cubs born in 1837, were exhibited to William IV and to his successor Victoria. On 14 December 1900 and on 31 May 1901, Carl Hagenbeck wrote to zoologist James Cossar Ewart with details and photographs of ligers born at the Hagenbeck's Tierpark in Hamburg in 1897.

Yes they don't do it naturally, because of geographical things. But the fact it happened as early as 1772 suggests that the actual mating is natural (or could they have had something similar to artificial insemination then? I could be wrong)

getz

2 years ago i worked in manchester [trafford park] we had a lot of foxes most would take food out of your hands-the local dogs used to ignore them--

peasant

whitser wrote: »

there is something about the smell of a fox that will send most dogs crazy.

There certainly is.

Even if the fox is about 150 meters away in the dark and its scent is just wafting in via the draft under the door.

Cue three dogs changing from half asleep cuddly toys to bloodthirsty killers clawing at the door.

Whispered

peasant wrote: »

There certainly is.

Even if the fox is about 150 meters away in the dark and its scent is just wafting in via the draft under the door.

Cue three dogs changing from half asleep cuddly toys to bloodthirsty killers clawing at the door.

What type are they?

My mam has a JRT who was rescued as a pup from someone who was using him to "gt the blood up" in his lurchers so he was in a bad way when she got him and so got very spoiled and very humanised. When he meets a new dog/cat/mouse/fox he "dances" I swear to god. Up on his back paws walking around. Poor thing does not know how to react to other animals at all.

iguana

whitser wrote: »

foxes are closer to cats then they are to dogs. they arent canines like the wolf, so that probably explains why there is a natural urge to chase. can i ask what breed of dog you have?

Springer spaniels, which are a hunting breed, but not a catch it and tear it apart hunting breed like a terrier. They react exactly like Peasant has described her dogs, They go from being my playful best buds to baying for blood. And they have such good noses they can smell foxes at such a distance and have no qualms about throwing themselves into brambles if they are on a scent.

whitser

iguana wrote: »

Springer spaniels, which are a hunting breed, but not a catch it and tear it apart hunting breed like a terrier. They react exactly like Peasant has described her dogs, They go from being my playful best buds to baying for blood. And they have such good noses they can smell foxes at such a distance and have no qualms about throwing themselves into brambles if they are on a scent.

my old springer would hunt a fox like any terrier. a hunting dog is a hunting dog. but chances of them catching a fox is slim unless its sick or old.

peasant

Only one hunter (terrier mix) among our three. The other two are supposedly sheepdogs.

The boss among them (mix between OES and Collie) however sees himself primarily as master of all that he surveys ...and a fox patroling through "his" space just is not on the cards as far as he is concerned.

Problem there is that the fox patrols just outside the fence, leaving its marks just at the fence, which riles him even further. Years of foxes passing just outside his reach have him well agitated now whenever he sees or smells one.

getz

a lady on uktv last year was talking about the fox[pups ?] playing in her back garden under a floodlights with her young labrador puppys-with the vixon watching

whitser

i would have too see that to believe it.

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

peasant wrote: »

errr ....

not cats, then

Foxes are members of the Canine family for now (although difference species to Dogs). There are some scientists who argue that they should not be classified as such. Many foxes have eye structures and mating habits more similar to cat. They also live a solitary life, unlike most dogs who are primarily social animals. The gray fox is the only Canid that is capable of climbing trees. It's actually considered an arborial animal.

whitser

Kolton Late Trefoil wrote: »

Foxes are members of the Canine family for now (although difference species to Dogs). There are some scientists who argue that they should not be classified as such. Many foxes have eye structures and mating habits more similar to cat. They also live a solitary life, unlike most dogs who are primarily social animals. The gray fox is the only Canid that is capable of climbing trees. It's actually considered an arborial animal.

whats an arborial animal?

CJhaughey

An animal that lives in trees is called an Arborial animal, although a cat can climb a tree, I don't think it is called an arborial animal.

stevoman

the fox has been the quarry of hunts for thousands of years. its only in the last 100 years that dogs have become "pets" as we know them today. before that each breed served a purpose and most if not all breeds were used in one form of hunting, livestock protection or another. you cant breed instict out of dogs in such a short period of time.

iguana

whitser wrote: »

my old springer would hunt a fox like any terrier. a hunting dog is a hunting dog. but chances of them catching a fox is slim unless its sick or old.

Mine love to hunt, but they don't shake what they catch to death in the way a terrier does. Dougal caught a squirrel once and he carried it back to me. When he let it go the squirrel jumped out of his mouth and scarpered up a tree. The main problem if they catch something (or find a dead animal) is getting them to come to me before the other dog realises they have something exciting. Because then they get more involved in stopping the other dog taking their "prize."

I just asked as yesterday seemed to be fox day at the park. We normally see a fox 2 or 3 times a week. But yesterday there were 6 encounters, with at least 2 foxes. And my dogs were getting extremely worked up. If they see a lot of squirrels they chase in a more matter of fact way.
With foxes their desire to chase seems more bloodthirsty than it is with squirrels or birds. And while maybe they'd only catch a sick or old fox, being attacked by dogs would be a dreadful way to die.

kerash

iguana wrote: »

Mine love to hunt, but they don't shake what they catch to death in the way a terrier does. Dougal caught a squirrel once and he carried it back to me. When he let it go the squirrel jumped out of his mouth and scarpered up a tree. The main problem if they catch something (or find a dead animal) is getting them to come to me before the other dog realises they have something exciting. Because then they get more involved in stopping the other dog taking their "prize."

I just asked as yesterday seemed to be fox day at the park. We normally see a fox 2 or 3 times a week. But yesterday there were 6 encounters, with at least 2 foxes. And my dogs were getting extremely worked up. If they see a lot of squirrels they chase in a more matter of fact way.
With foxes their desire to chase seems more bloodthirsty than it is with squirrels or birds. And while maybe they'd only catch a sick or old fox, being attacked by dogs would be a dreadful way to die.

That's exactly what they are supposed to do, they have soft mouths and shouldnt do much damage, but accidently - due to their excitable nature they might kill a small animal if they managed to catch it. Our springer used do the same, caught a mouse on time and just ran around with it in his mouth, didnt know what to do and let it go again!! another time he caught a bird and killed it unfortunately.
The best thing you can do is work on your commands with the dogs, their fantastic scent means they'll will always know when foxy is around and want to find him!! once they respond to your call they are under your control and you'll be ok.
Springers are fun!:)

lpool1

helena.ryan wrote: »

I've often thought that foxes move very similarly to cats, even though they look like dogs. The best of both worlds.

+1

whitser

kerash wrote: »

That's exactly what they are supposed to do, they have soft mouths and shouldnt do much damage, but accidently - due to their excitable nature they might kill a small animal if they managed to catch it. Our springer used do the same, caught a mouse on time and just ran around with it in his mouth, didnt know what to do and let it go again!! another time he caught a bird and killed it unfortunately.
The best thing you can do is work on your commands with the dogs, their fantastic scent means they'll will always know when foxy is around and want to find him!! once they respond to your call they are under your control and you'll be ok.
Springers are fun!:)

my springer has retrived ducks and rabbits to me alive, gentle as a lamb but he'll rag a fox carcass like a terrier.

kerash

whitser wrote: »

my springer has retrived ducks and rabbits to me alive, gentle as a lamb but he'll rag a fox carcass like a terrier.

Yeah they're mad to flush anything. It's interesting alright why they lust for the fox. Our lad hated cats and would have liked to rag a few I'd say! I know if I didn't have him focused on me and my commands he'd go crazy!

Morganna

helena.ryan wrote: »

Apparently there have been "supposed" dog/fox hybrids. Something to do with different number of chromosones. And it has never been verified so maybe someone got a foxy looking pup from their bitch and just assumed it was a fox.

From wiki:



Tigers and lions, are they different species? It's commonly known that they can interbreed. Tigon or liger. Supposed to be huge animals.

Dogs and foxes cant mate and produce offspring the chromosomes are a different amount.Also foxes are vulpine not canine