Fahey to Birmingham

Nalz

Didnt see it posted, which is a surprise. Either that or I'm blind!

http://www.birminghammail.net/birmingham-sport/birmingham-city-fc/birmingham-city-fc-news/2008/11/27/birmingham-city-agree-to-sign-irish-star-keith-fahey-97319-22353207/

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Magic flight time.

Nalz

Des wrote: »

Magic flight time.

part 2

dfx-

I can't decide whether it's pittance or robbery.

stovelid

Des wrote: »

Magic flight time.

I don't like the phrase magic flight. You said something like magic airplane of awesomeness which I much preferred.

Glad for Fahey, a Tallaght lad. Hopefully the kind of player Rovers can start bringing up when they get bedded down in Tallaght.

CantGetNoSleep

dfx- wrote: »

I can't decide whether it's pittance or robbery.

Birmingham were robbed

LuckyLloyd

Mmmm. Wonder how much of an opportunity he will get at Birmingham considering that Carsley and Johnson will be ahead of him. Up to the player to get on the pitch and perform when he gets the chance. If he does play, he will have an above average supporting cast relative to the division he is playing in.

The number looks right for a LOI player. Anymore than that would have been a shock - and probably a deal breaker.

Xavi6

Look forward to seeing his name in the next Ireland squad.

Draupnir

Des wrote: »

Magic flight time.

You still haven't answered me from the last time I asked ya to name a player who actually has transferred to England and instantly made the Ireland squad!

Nalz

Draupnir wrote: »

You still haven't answered me from the last time I asked ya to name a player who actually has transferred to England and instantly made the Ireland squad!

Happened with Noel Hunt (Scotland to Reading)
Jason Byrne maybe?

I'd say it will happen here.

Draupnir

It didn't happen with either of those players, Hunt to Reading doesn't count because he was in Scotland five and a half years before he made the Ireland squad!

Jason Byrne was called up to the Ireland squad when he was at Shels and wasn't called up when he was in England. He is like the antihero of the story of the magic flight.

stovelid

Draupnir wrote: »

You still haven't answered me from the last time I asked ya to name a player who actually has transferred to England and instantly made the Ireland squad!

IIRC, Doyle was called up to the full Ireland squad within a couple of months of being signed by Reading?

I don't think the point is that players get an instant shoo-in. More that if the player doesn't really change that much in the short period between leaving here and going across the water, maybe they should have been considered for the call-up (even just to the squad) before the switch.

Many of them will have been capped at U21 level anyway, so it's not as if they are completely an unknown quantity.

djpbarry

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

The number looks right for a LOI player.

I can't help but feel it's a little low myself - €350k up front? I hope there's a sell-on clause in there.

I think Fahey can cut it in the Championship - hopefully he'll be given a chance to prove himself. Good luck to him.

I don't think he'll be playing for Ireland any time soon - not Trap's type of player, in my opinion.

Draupnir

stovelid wrote: »

IIRC, Doyle was called up to the full Ireland squad within a couple of months of being signed by Reading?

Many of them will have been capped at U21 level anyway, so it's not as if they are completely an unknown quantity.

Doyle was called up very quickly, 5/6 starts for Reading and a couple of goals. He would ALMOST be the man to demonstrate the magic flight thing for Des, except for the fact that he was Ireland's all time u21 top scorer when he was first called up (might still be) and we also had a bit of an injury crisis up front at the time also.

This magic flight does not exist, unless you say that players come to more attention when they move to England, which seems fair to me, why wouldn't the national manager trust the judgement of English professionl scouting networks.

Anyway, great move for Fahey, I hope he lives up to the expectations and promise. We could do with a good midfielder who isn't insane.

CiaranC

The flight is 'magic' in that without it, a player is automatically disqualified for playing from Ireland.

Fahey is the same player he was yesterday, but today he will be looked at for selection.

Draupnir

CiaranC wrote: »

The flight is 'magic' in that without it, a player is automatically disqualified for playing from Ireland.

Fahey is the same player he was yesterday, but today he will be looked at for selection.

The only actual time that has been true was when Staunton said he would look at Roy O'Donovan after Sunderland bought him, and he didn't get called up!

Glen Crowe and Jason Byrne both were selected in recent times while at LOI clubs. Kinda negates your paranoia.

stovelid

Draupnir wrote: »

Doyle was called up very quickly, 5/6 starts for Reading and a couple of goals. He would ALMOST be the man to demonstrate the magic flight thing for Des, except for the fact that he was Ireland's all time u21 top scorer when he was first called up (might still be) and we also had a bit of an injury crisis up front at the time also.

This magic flight does not exist, unless you say that players come to more attention when they move to England, which seems fair to me, why wouldn't the national manager trust the judgement of English professionl scouting networks.

Doyle has been one of our best performers in the green shirt for the last while. The fact remains that despite his U21 record, he didn't get near the senior squad when he was LOI, and got called up almost immediately when he signed for Reading.

I'm not saying that the LOI is stuffed with Doyles, just that the league shouldn't be overlooked as a matter of routine when a sizable handful of players, like Fahey and Doyle, are bubbling under and are well able make the switch.

And I am glad for KF. Can't see him getting near the Ireland midfield though.

Draupnir

stovelid wrote: »

Doyle has been one of our best performers in the green shirt for the last while. The fact remains that despite his U21 record, he didn't get near the senior squad when he was LOI, and got called up almost immediately when he signed for Reading. .

He did get near the senior squad, the u21 squad is where players under twenty one years of age play in the international game unless they are of exceptional talent. He got plenty of call ups there and was all time leading scorer.

The game he got called up to the senior squad was in October as far as I remember and he didnt play, we just had a shortage of forwards and his u21 form earned the callup. He didn't make his debut until the new year, March or April I think, at which point he was a regular starter for Reading and I think won their player of the year.

stovelid

Draupnir wrote: »

He did get near the senior squad, the u21 squad is where players under twenty one years of age play in the international game unless they are of exceptional talent. He got plenty of call ups there and was all time leading scorer.

The game he got called up to the senior squad was in October as far as I remember and he didnt play, we just had a shortage of forwards and his u21 form earned the callup. He didn't make his debut until the new year, March or April I think, at which point he was a regular starter for Reading and I think won their player of the year.

Your OP referred to making the squad, not playing.

I'm not sure that any of the magic flight criticism is about underage squads. Rovers have had plenty of players capped at u21/u23 level in the last year or two. I'm sure it's the case with many of the other clubs.

djpbarry

Draupnir wrote: »

He did get near the senior squad, the u21 squad is where players under twenty one years of age play in the international game unless they are of exceptional talent.

So why is it that the U21 squad regularly features LOI players, yet in the senior squad they are conspicuous by their absence? Seems rather strange, wouldn't you say? In fact, I'd say we're pretty much the only nation in Europe that does not select players from our own national league on a regular basis. Wales is the only other example I can think of, but their league is hardly worth considering.

premierstone

djpbarry wrote: »

So why is it that the U21 squad regularly features LOI players, yet in the senior squad they are conspicuous by their absence? Seems rather strange, wouldn't you say? In fact, I'd say we're pretty much the only nation in Europe that does not select players from our own national league on a regular basis. Wales is the only other example I can think of, but their league is hardly worth considering.

Think you've answered your question there urself

djpbarry

premierstone wrote: »

Think you've answered your question there urself

You're not honestly comparing the Welsh league with ours, are you?

Bateman

Draupnir wrote: »

why wouldn't the national manager trust the judgement of English professionl scouting networks.

Do you actually believe that? Look at Trap's squads. It is patently clear that club form means absolutely nothing to him. He sits in Milan, he sends Brady and Tardelli around England to look busy, and then he pays absolutely no attention to what they tell him. He jets in for the game, and then picks his team from who impresses him in training or some two-bob B international. This is his approach - once we are getting the results, it's hard to argue against it, or if you wanted to, it's another day's discussion. But don't misrepresent the situation - there is no way in hell that Trap has some instricate and deep-reaching scouting network all over England - or at least if he is, he isn't paying a blind bit of attention to what they are telling him.

applehunter

BATEMAN'S BACK!!!!

Draupnir

Bateman wrote: »

Do you actually believe that? Look at Trap's squads. It is patently clear that club form means absolutely nothing to him. He sits in Milan, he sends Brady and Tardelli around England to look busy, and then he pays absolutely no attention to what they tell him. He jets in for the game, and then picks his team from who impresses him in training or some two-bob B international. This is his approach - once we are getting the results, it's hard to argue against it, or if you wanted to, it's another day's discussion. But don't misrepresent the situation - there is no way in hell that Trap has some instricate and deep-reaching scouting network all over England - or at least if he is, he isn't paying a blind bit of attention to what they are telling him.

So many assumptions, my brain almost can't handle it!

JimiTime

I think its quite simple really. LOI is seen as a poor standard. this being so, I'd say managers find it hard to gauge how good a player actually is. After seeing them show their stuff at a higher level, they give them a chance. No conspiracy or magic flights, just low standard league and competition versus higher standard league and competition.

As for Fahey, No chance IMO of getting a call up. Not enough grafting for Traps liking IMO.

podge018

But clubs were watching Fahey and others v Elfsborg and Hertha Berlin, which is a higher level, were Trappatoni or his crew watching?

applehunter

JimiTime wrote: »

I think its quite simple really. LOI is seen as a poor standard. this being so, I'd say managers find it hard to gauge how good a player actually is. After seeing them show their stuff at a higher level, they give them a chance. No conspiracy or magic flights, just low standard league and competition versus higher standard league and competition.

As for Fahey, No chance IMO of getting a call up. Not enough grafting for Traps liking IMO.

Someone involved at that level should be able to judge a good player no matter what.

JimiTime

applehunter wrote: »

Someone involved at that level should be able to judge a good player no matter what.

Maybe. i tend to disagree though. I would think it rare, if ever, you see League 1 players getting in the England squad, or Serie B players lining out for Italy (Juve relegation being an exception). Should they keep an eye on the league? Yes, and they probably do. I don't think they've missed any gems though tbh. Kevin Doyle etc will have improved by stepping up to a higher level. I would think it very deceptive watching players against relatively weak opposition. Its why these players go for such low fee's to English clubs. There is the big risk that they wont cut it at the higher level. If they do show that they can raise their game, then an international call up can come as they have competed at a standard deemed worthy of a call up.

eirebhoy

CiaranC wrote: »

The flight is 'magic' in that without it, a player is automatically disqualified for playing from Ireland.

Fahey is the same player he was yesterday, but today he will be looked at for selection.

Trap says the LOI is on par with bottom half of Serie B which is probably overrating the LOI. He just doesn't want to look at players playing at that level.

_blank_

he's never been to an LoI game in his life.

Nalz

Des wrote: »

he's never been to an LoI game in his life.

But there is more to it Des, ya reckon he even gets videos from games, like the cup final for example? What exactly is Bradys role, and other scouts are they doing their job. Is the question nobody is bothering, or that the purely dont hold the standard of the players in high esteem??

Its a disgrace in my opinion that the likes Quigley, Murphy, Fahey and maybe Gamble and Deegan havent got call ups recently.

didnt fahey play for villa once albeit as a struggling youth player??

Nalz

Deleted User wrote: »

didnt fahey play for villa once albeit as a struggling youth player??

arsenal then villa, was for a few quid too

HalloweenJack

£300k, afaik. Think he was about 20 when he came home.

Draupnir

Trilla wrote: »

arsenal then villa, was for a few quid too

Would, perchance, Liam Brady have been running the Arsenal youth system at the time? Holy conspiracy lads, maybe a member of the senior set up knows a thing or two about Fahey already!?!?!?

Pigman II

Des wrote: »

he's never been to an LoI game in his life.

Yeah but he only does that to establish a kinship with the majority of people who go to Ireland games.

Bateman

Draupnir wrote: »

Would, perchance, Liam Brady have been running the Arsenal youth system at the time? Holy conspiracy lads, maybe a member of the senior set up knows a thing or two about Fahey already!?!?!?

Per chance the same Liam Brady that set up the B International with Nottingham Forest in order to get a couple of Arsenal kids in the shop window? Sure what's good for Arsenal's rejects is good for Irish football I suppose.

Draupnir

Bateman wrote: »

Per chance the same Liam Brady that set up the B International with Nottingham Forest in order to get a couple of Arsenal kids in the shop window? Sure what's good for Arsenal's rejects is good for Irish football I suppose.

You're a Bohs fan yeah? I'll keep an eye out for you in Dalymount next year, you'll be the guy in the tinfoil hat right?

djpbarry

Draupnir wrote: »

Would, perchance, Liam Brady have been running the Arsenal youth system at the time? Holy conspiracy lads, maybe a member of the senior set up knows a thing or two about Fahey already!?!?!?

I can't imagine he'd be daft enough to base his opinion of Fahey on what he saw 8 years ago.

Draupnir

djpbarry wrote: »

I can't imagine he'd be daft enough to base his opinion of Fahey on what he saw 8 years ago.

I certainly think it would be a factor, very few players go from not good enough at Arsenal to international standard when they have been training in the League of Ireland.

Töpher

eirebhoy wrote: »

Trap says the LOI is on par with bottom half of Serie B which is probably overrating the LOI.

Do you watch enough of both leagues to make that statement? :pac:

Bateman

Draupnir wrote: »

You're a Bohs fan yeah? I'll keep an eye out for you in Dalymount next year, you'll be the guy in the tinfoil hat right?

I don't get it, but by all means keep an eye out.

Bateman

Einstürzende wrote: »

Do you watch enough of both leagues to make that statement? :pac:

I was going to say the same thing. I have never been to a Serie B game, but an Italian mate of mine who would have seen a handful of games from both leagues, would probably disagree with the Trap. Although I've never been insecure enough to ask him. I've generally more important things to be worrying about.

eirebhoy

Einstürzende wrote: »

Do you watch enough of both leagues to make that statement? :pac:

Let's just say I'd expect Parma with Lucarelli and their 6 or 7 other international players to have a much easier time winning games in the LOI.

stovelid

I would say Hunty has been upgraded to Magic Plane of Awesomeness Business Class after last night. :pac:

noodler

Population of Ireland 5m.

Italy 60m.

I don't care if i have never seen a Serie b game.

SectionF

I'm confused. Are there Ireland prospects playing in Serie B? Wouldn't that be stretching it, even if they are all Catholics? :eek:

Gareth37

Deleted User wrote: »

didnt fahey play for villa once albeit as a struggling youth player??

He also struggled a bit with Drogheda :eek:

_blank_

Nice sig mate.

Testify.

stovelid

Des wrote: »

Nice sig mate.

Testify.

It's certainly large, Gareth.