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HL Maths - Options

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  • 28-11-2008 7:24pm
    #1
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 4,630 ✭✭✭


    I've been looking through the HL maths options the last few days, and I've also been looking at the percentage of people who do each option. Just wondering, does anybody know why so few people do the Further Geometry option? Literally 4-5 people take it each year. Is it relatively harder than the other options or is it just a horrible question?

    I've decided I'm going to cover the three other options (Groups, Calculus and series, and Probability and Statistics), two of which I'll do myself. Anyone doing Groups? Or is everybody doing Further Calculus and Series as the vast vast majority of people do?


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    #2
    bythewoods
    Registered Users Posts: 2,361 ✭✭✭bythewoods


    I've only ever focused on the further calculus option myself, much like nearly every other HL Maths student in the country apparently, but yes, it's meant to be the easiest.

    My teacher last year said that the other options are far more difficult.

    Why are you going to do 3 options? You only need to do one! Two might be a safe choice, maybe, but would it not make more sense to spend your time focusing on other parts of the paper?


  • Options
    #3
    PurpleFistMixer
    Registered Users Posts: 5,851 ✭✭✭PurpleFistMixer


    I had grand plans to do 3 of the options (all minus Probability, euggh), but only got around to doing Groups. I'm guessing the reason nobody does the other options is because a) material on them is nigh-on impossible to obtain, and b) if a teacher is used to teaching the further calculus, may as well stick with that.

    I don't really know about the prob and geometry ones, but I did Groups, so I'll tell you about that. The nice thing about groups was that it was sort of "understand these concepts and you're set". Set theory things, proving operations are commutative, associative, etc. So far in college it's been one of the more beneficial things I did on the LC (aside from general knowing how to do algebra). The bad thing about it is there's about 4 or 5 proofs you have to learn, one of which is approximately a page long. (The complex nth roots of unity, huzzah.) I did the groups option in the summer between 5th and 6th year so it wasn't really any extra work, otherwise I might have just left it. At the end of the day it's extra work in 6th year, which you may or may not want. I did both options in the exam, but have no idea how well it stood to me because I never viewed my script.

    You could make the argument that it gives you something to fall back on if your calculus thing goes badly wrong, which is true, but the further calculus question is quite straightforward and is, afair, essentially the same every year.

    One last thing about the groups option: One year part of the question was to fill in a 2x2 sudoku grid, essentially. (Actually a Cayley table but it fulfils the same properties.) That is, put a 1 and a 0 in two empty boxes. Fantastic.


  • Options
    #4
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 4,630 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    bythewoods wrote: »
    Why are you going to do 3 options? You only need to do one! Two might be a safe choice, maybe, but would it not make more sense to spend your time focusing on other parts of the paper?

    Am... I really don't know! I'm repeating now and have most other stuff covered pretty well, including Further Calculus. I guess I'm just doing the other two because I love maths, if that makes any sense!
    PurpleFistMixer wrote: »
    I had grand plans to do 3 of the options (all minus Probability, euggh), but only got around to doing Groups. I'm guessing the reason nobody does the other options is because a) material on them is nigh-on impossible to obtain, and b) if a teacher is used to teaching the further calculus, may as well stick with that.

    I don't really know about the prob and geometry ones, but I did Groups, so I'll tell you about that. The nice thing about groups was that it was sort of "understand these concepts and you're set". Set theory things, proving operations are commutative, associative, etc. So far in college it's been one of the more beneficial things I did on the LC (aside from general knowing how to do algebra). The bad thing about it is there's about 4 or 5 proofs you have to learn, one of which is approximately a page long. (The complex nth roots of unity, huzzah.) I did the groups option in the summer between 5th and 6th year so it wasn't really any extra work, otherwise I might have just left it. At the end of the day it's extra work in 6th year, which you may or may not want. I did both options in the exam, but have no idea how well it stood to me because I never viewed my script.

    Why not probability?! It makes up possibly the two easiest questions ever! Not sure about the option yet though, but it can't be too much harder.

    So you reckon Groups was beneficial with regards to maths in college? I'm hoping to do TP, so I suppose groups would be a good choice. Might just forget about the probability option.


  • Options
    #5
    lou91
    Closed Accounts Posts: 399 ✭✭lou91


    In 2008, the grand total of people doing the further geometry was.... 0.

    It'd make you want to do it, just to feel special...


  • Options
    #6
    PurpleFistMixer
    Registered Users Posts: 5,851 ✭✭✭PurpleFistMixer


    -JammyDodger- wrote: »
    Why not probability?! It makes up possibly the two easiest questions ever! Not sure about the option yet though, but it can't be too much harder.

    So you reckon Groups was beneficial with regards to maths in college? I'm hoping to do TP, so I suppose groups would be a good choice. Might just forget about the probability option.
    I just hate probability. I didn't find it the easiest tbh... messiest, perhaps. (Well, after The Circle. What a gigantic ball of simultaneous equations that was.)

    The probability option also contains further statistics, btw.

    And, well, the thing with Groups is that as a TP I've to take this compulsory but not-graded course called Problem Solving, which as it turns out is just Set Theory. If you do pure maths you do Abstract Algebra which is, as far as I know, essentially Groups (but at college level), and which fills you in on the background to that course. Of course I'm not doing pure maths so I get thrown in the deep end... so it's helped in that respect. It hasn't been incredibly helpful like, you're not going to be penalised for not having done an obscure option in the LC when you get to college, it just turned out that it has had some benefit.


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    #7
    PurpleFistMixer
    Registered Users Posts: 5,851 ✭✭✭PurpleFistMixer


    Oh, and I'm finally on my PC so here's the link to the Further Geometry resource:
    http://homepage.eircom.net/~mathsmaniac/geometry/geometry1.htm


  • Options
    #8
    The Walsho
    Registered Users Posts: 1,251 ✭✭✭The Walsho


    I did groups for my option and I'd recommend it. Was always my "safe" question that I coud rely on to bring my marks up.
    It's seems a bit scary at first, with some new terms and things like isomorphism, but it's actually very simple.


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    #9
    LivingDeadGirl
    Registered Users Posts: 1,150 ✭✭✭LivingDeadGirl


    I think my teacher said we're doing further Integration


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    #10
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 4,630 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Thanks for the link PFM. I've started looking through groups now anyway, doesn't look too complicated, so far anyway.

    Anyone know any good websites on differential equations? I'm teaching myself applied maths and I'm just a tiny bit confused when it comes to the part b's on question 10. You know, when you've to use differential equations to solve power and force etc. problems. Thanks.

    It's a bit odd too, that differential equations aren't in the further calculus option, since they're such a huge part of calculus and all that.


  • Options
    #11
    MathsManiac
    Registered Users Posts: 1,595 ✭✭✭MathsManiac


    PurpleFistMixer wrote: »
    Oh, and I'm finally on my PC so here's the link to the Further Geometry resource:
    http://homepage.eircom.net/~mathsmaniac/geometry/geometry1.htm

    Thanks for the plug, PFM!
    ;)

    My problem with contributing to this thread is that I think all the options (apart from boring old calculus) are just lovely - it's like trying to pick only one sweetie from a tin of Roses. How can one offer advice on such a tormenting dilemma??? Scoff them all, scoff them all, I say! (Just leave calculus rattling around in the empty tin like the coffee cremes.)


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    #12
    SarcasticFairy
    Registered Users Posts: 1,345 ✭✭✭SarcasticFairy


    Ugggghh, options, say what?!!

    We've never been told about options?! We're waaay behind as it is (maths inspection on Monday, fantastic timing) because our teacher is a bit of a nutjob - literally just started the second maths book! :(

    Is there even more to the course?!!


  • Options
    #13
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 4,630 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    SarcasticFairy wrote: »
    Ugggghh, options, say what?!!

    We've never been told about options?! We're waaay behind as it is (maths inspection on Monday, fantastic timing) because our teacher is a bit of a nutjob - literally just started the second maths book! :(

    Is there even more to the course?!!

    Yah, there are four options, of which, well in excess of 90% of people do Further Calculus and Series. It'll be a chapter at the back of your second maths book. The other three options are Further Probability and statistics, Further Geometry, and Groups. The last two of which are extremely unpopular (I think in the last 3 years 9 people have done Further Geometry.).


  • Options
    #14
    Piste
    Registered Users Posts: 11,440 ✭✭✭✭Piste


    MathsManiac wrote: »
    Thanks for the plug, PFM!
    ;)

    My problem with contributing to this thread is that I think all the options (apart from boring old calculus) are just lovely - it's like trying to pick only one sweetie from a tin of Roses. How can one offer advice on such a tormenting dilemma??? Scoff them all, scoff them all, I say! (Just leave calculus rattling around in the empty tin like the coffee cremes.)

    Or don't open the box, wrap it up again and fob it off on another relative, that's how I'd do it if I had my way :(


  • Options
    #15
    -ilikeshorts
    Registered Users Posts: 83 ✭✭-ilikeshorts


    Our teacher calls it the compulsory option


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    #16
    LivingDeadGirl
    Registered Users Posts: 1,150 ✭✭✭LivingDeadGirl


    -JammyDodger- wrote: »
    Yah, there are four options, of which, well in excess of 90% of people do Further Calculus and Series. It'll be a chapter at the back of your second maths book. The other three options are Further Probability and statistics, Further Geometry, and Groups. The last two of which are extremely unpopular (I think in the last 3 years 9 people have done Further Geometry.).

    So which one is further Integration?! :confused:


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    #17
    cautioner
    Closed Accounts Posts: 862 ✭✭✭cautioner


    I think Integration falls under Calculus... no?


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    #18
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 4,630 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    LivingDeadGirl wrote: »
    So which one is further Integration?! :confused:

    Integration by parts and all of that is in the Further Calculus and Series option. The other three are Groups, Further Probability and Statistics, and Further Geometry.


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    #19
    LivingDeadGirl
    Registered Users Posts: 1,150 ✭✭✭LivingDeadGirl


    Thanks :)


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    #20
    Jam-Fly
    Registered Users Posts: 549 ✭✭✭Jam-Fly


    anyone any info on the further probability option?


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    #21
    aine-maire
    Closed Accounts Posts: 456 ✭✭aine-maire


    PurpleFistMixer wrote: »
    Oh, and I'm finally on my PC so here's the link to the Further Geometry resource:
    http://homepage.eircom.net/~mathsmaniac/geometry/geometry1.htm

    Does this come in further probability?

    I'm covering further probability and integration...Probability's probably easier,but it's so simple to make a stupid mistake.
    Integration's fairly handy,as long as the part c isn't a sticky max/min!
    ;)


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    #22
    PurpleFistMixer
    Registered Users Posts: 5,851 ✭✭✭PurpleFistMixer


    aine-maire wrote: »
    Does this come in further probability?

    I'm covering further probability and integration...Probability's probably easier,but it's so simple to make a stupid mistake.
    Integration's fairly handy,as long as the part c isn't a sticky max/min!
    ;)
    Ask MathsManiac there, he's the one who did it. : p


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    #23
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 4,630 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    aine-maire wrote: »
    Does this come in further probability?

    Further geometry is it's own option: It's completely seperate from the further probability and statistics option.


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    #24
    aine-maire
    Closed Accounts Posts: 456 ✭✭aine-maire


    PurpleFistMixer wrote: »
    Ask MathsManiac there, he's the one who did it. : p

    MathsManiac,do you have one for further probability?:rolleyes:
    -JammyDodger- wrote: »
    Further geometry is it's own option: It's completely seperate from the further probability and statistics option.

    Yeah I know, I've done the chapter like...that's why I'm asking if there's one for further probability,if they weren't separate sure why would I be asking for a probability one?!


  • Options
    #25
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 4,630 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    aine-maire wrote: »
    Yeah I know, I've done the chapter like...that's why I'm asking if there's one for further probability,if they weren't separate sure why would I be asking for a probability one?!

    Ah right right, sorry I misunderstood you there! The groups and further probability and statistics options are in the older version of Text and Tests 5 anyway. I borrowed the book off my teacher a few months ago, if you ask your's they'd be more than willing to give you it I'd say.


  • Options
    #26
    MathsManiac
    Registered Users Posts: 1,595 ✭✭✭MathsManiac


    aine-maire wrote: »
    MathsManiac,do you have one for further probability?:rolleyes:

    Nope. Sorry! I did the Further Geometry one because there was nothing else available. Since all three of the major textbook authors have covered the other three options in one way or another, I didn't feel the need.

    I know it might be hard to track them down - but they are out there.


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