Any chance of non-religious stamps ffs

JohnMc1

SDooM wrote: »

1) What does that have to do with anything. If the majority of elected officials were thieves, should thievery be legalised?

Nearly the entire population is Catholic. To say their won't be any influences is silly. Guess who works for who?

And that is the dumbest analogy I have ever heard.

Doctor DooM

JohnMc1 wrote: »

Nearly the entire population is Catholic. To say their won't be any influences is silly. Guess who works for who?

And that is the dumbest analogy I have ever heard.

Is it really? Because you don't seem to have argued it, just called it dumb.

Am I correct is saying therefore you do not believe that state and religion should not be seperated? This seems to be your argument here. Because all evidence seems to me this is nearly always a bad thing, and something we've been striving against for several decades.

Bear in mind I agree, on a cultural level, there is no harm in religious art being produced, even if I agree churches should not be funded by the state etc.

robinph

JohnMc1 wrote: »

The Govt of a Christian Country is going to put out Christmas stamps with a Religious aim. One would have to be a complete idiot not to realize that.

It should be possible to find a happy medium:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/7706670.stm
Do the Snow White stamps offend anyone?

jhegarty

robinph wrote: »

It should be possible to find a happy medium:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/7706670.stm
Do the Snow White stamps offend anyone?

But we do offer a choice. Normal or (religious) Christmas ones.

Just don't have non-religious Christmas stamps.

The Mad Hatter

JohnMc1 wrote: »

You can't dispute anything I said so you still go to insults the smallest most insignificant detail. And I thought the atheists were the "intelligent" and "enlightened" group. :rolleyes:

Well, you're certainly not providing any evidence to the contrary.

No-one's bothering to dispute what you've said as every point you've made has been made in the thread already by people who breathe between sentences.

pH

JohnMc1 wrote:

Christmas is a Christian Holiday [even though its as all-inclusive as you can get] its celebrating the birth of Jesus ofcourse

No. Christ-mass is a Catholic mass celebrating the birth of Jesus on the 25th December (for traditional rather than scriptural reasons). The holiday, traditions and other celebration which we have at this time of year are pagan or secular in origin.

Galvasean wrote: »

You do know that Christianity basically hijacked a Pagan festival to create Christmas? (As has already been stated in this thread)

And then the Protestants hijacked the Catholic's "Christ Mass", they don't even have mass, how hypocritical of them.

Now if we could only persuade the Catholics to move their celebratory mass to another "random" date (how about some time in September?) then we could all be happy at this time of year.

Fanny Cradock

Sorry, you are proposing that Christmas should be now celebrated in September because somebody doesn't like religious stamps?

Doctor DooM

Fanny Cradock wrote: »

Sorry, you are proposing that Christmas should be now celebrated in September because somebody doesn't like religious stamps?

Welcome to boards.


Actually I think he was extracting the michael.

Fanny Cradock

I get that, I was being somewhat deliberately obtuse.

barfizz

Stuff like this really does not bother me in the slightest, I like Xmas.

If you are so upset by a book of stamps, how do you react when you have to cross the road:)

Nodin

JohnMc1 wrote: »

Ireland is (.....) ass.

Terrible when a discussion is going along fine with a bit of banter and humour, and then somebody dumps a big bucket of Mr Angry on top of it.

Ireland is historically a christian country (with a vast amount of legacy paganism), and now we have a number of different persuasions amongst us, I see no reason why we can't all be able to express ourselves as best suits us, be that by religous imagery or otherwise.

JohnMc1 wrote: »

WAAAAH!!! He owned us .

Its 'pwned' and I'm afraid no, you didn't.

JohnMc1 wrote: »

You people only make up less than 1% of the population..

Under 5% at last count, I think. However one of the advantages of living in most developed countries is that the rights of minorities are recognised.

"You people" tends to be a winning line in Bigot Bingo, btw. Not for the 'caller' though.

JohnMc1 wrote: »

You can't dispute anything ..

Hmmmm. Fascinating Captain.

pH

Fanny Cradock wrote: »

Sorry, you are proposing that Christmas should be now celebrated in September because somebody doesn't like religious stamps?

Why not.

All the Catholics could have their mass (only takes a bit more than an hour) on another day, the day itself isn't important, I can't see what difference it would make to them.

Protestants don't celebrate mass, so it's entirely hypocritical of them to partake, after all isn't all this "mixture of tradition and scripture" that the Catholics indulge in one of the main grievances protestants have. And surely the having a mass on the 25th December is tradition in the purest sense.

The rest of it - presents, turkey, trees, santa, lights etc. (all the stuff that Christians like to call "celebrating Christmas" but really isn't anything to do with the mass that Catholics stuck on that day) can continue on at this time of year, but without the religious connotations which have been stuck onto it and are so divisive.

jhegarty

pH wrote: »

Why not.

All the Catholics could have their mass (only takes a bit more than an hour) on another day, the day itself isn't important, I can't see what difference it would make to them.

Protestants don't celebrate mass, so it's entirely hypocritical of them to partake, after all isn't all this "mixture of tradition and scripture" that the Catholics indulge in one of the main grievances protestants have. And surely the having a mass on the 25th December is tradition in the purest sense.

The rest of it - presents, turkey, trees, santa, lights etc. (all the stuff that Christians like to call "celebrating Christmas" but really isn't anything to do with the mass that Catholics stuck on that day) can continue on at this time of year, but without the religious connotations which have been stuck onto it and are so divisive.

What a silly thing to say*


*I can't actually find anything wrong in your post. Very good point.

Galvasean

Christmas in September would make it easier on kids who tend to be starting school at that time... although December Christmas breaks up the aul winter... Can't we have both?

seanybiker

feck op im a non believer but to get pissy about a stamp is definately over reacting.

turly

Galvasean wrote: »

Christmas in September would make it easier on kids who tend to be starting school at that time... although December Christmas breaks up the aul winter... Can't we have both?

Why stop at two?

Valmont

Zamboni wrote: »

Call me pedantic, call me scrooge

I certainly will.

Goodness gracious me baby jesus on stamps, oh no, this is terrible, ahhhhhh, religion is taking over we're finished,

Really though, can we draw the line somewhere?

Valmont

JohnMc1 wrote: »

And I thought the atheists were the "intelligent" and "enlightened" group. :rolleyes:

Noooooo, don't encourage them:p

Zamboni

SDooM wrote: »

I believe the OP is offended not by people's celebrating of the holiday of religion, but the fact that a state body is producing material which could be viewed as being non secular (bearing in mind the catholic church no longer has a special place in the constitution, despite the god based rhetoric present in it).

I don't really agree with the OP, christmas is part of the culture in this country, but at least he is able to make points without insulting people.

Cheers and you're spot on.
I even specifically said I was not offended by the stamp.
Some have said it was an overreaction but all I did was exchange stamps because I thnk it is inappropriate for religious icons to be on the stamp of a country.
I didn't brick the window or insult the post clerk.
I think there are far more serious things to highlight but I did think it warranted a mention and I still do.

Merry xmas

ChocolateSauce

Today I had to buy stamps and was given Catholic ones. I couldn't help but feel mildly annoyed, so I asked "have you any other ones?" and I was given normal ones without question.

Censorsh!t

The ones with the darling little robins on them :rolleyes: haha

Valmont

Actually giving out about stamps because baby jesus is on them, to me represents the sort of fanaticism I dislike in religion so much. Personally, I like being a non-theist because I don't have to worry about other people's ideologies offending my own because I don't really have one.

Man giving out about baby jesus on stamps = muslims going mad over cartoons of mohammed? Ok not really a valid comparison all, but they're both indicative of blowing something completely trivial out of proportion in the name of belief or lackthereof. At least it looks that way to me.

I'm starting to think the Southpark envisioned future of the Athiest factions warring over what to call themselves might be plausible!
I'm not trying to damn the OP, he has a right to complain about whatever he wants. I just think the motive behind it is a little worrisome.

mayordenis

Fanny Cradock wrote: »

Really, you can only but laugh away the intolerance. Very amusing

you're a disgrace, you had the guild to accuse me of trolling the other day,
and you know accuse someone else of being intolerent.

If I have to buy a stamp now to send a letter, and IF I haven't "hoarded" non religious stamp I am forced to buy something with a religious print on it.

I honestly can't believe you.

Húrin

Zamboni wrote: »

I bought a book of stamps in my local post office today and walking up the road I opened them to find baby jesus wriggling in his nest on each of them. :rolleyes:
I had to go back and ask did they have any others.
'But they're Christmas stamps' said the Post Office Teller. I said 'Great, any chance of a few snowmen instead?' No, they're the only ones we have other than the normal stamps.
So I got a book of normal stamps and said 'It's a disgrace they're still putting religious icons on the stamps of this state'. She said we were Catholic country. I said, we were as in past tense and walked out.

Call me pedantic, call me scrooge but what a crock of s**t that they still do this. Surely they could just use non-religious christmas stamps with snowmen, snow landscape, polar bears drinking coke etc.?

This type of thing makes me want to attend this Atheist Assoc thingy tomorrow.

You are ridiculous. Christmas is a Christian holiday by definition; what you are calling for are merely winter themed stamps and stamps celebrating capitalism (bears drinking Coke). Next year stock up in advance on the stamps with birds on them if it bothers you so much.

Zamboni wrote: »

I am intolerant that a modern state where I pay taxes produces relgious art on a stamp.
You find that laughable. Good for you.
I don't. Its a symptom (albeit a small one) of the archaic hold that an idiotic religion has on this country.

The National Gallery, a state funded institution, also contains a lot of religious art. Should it be removed too?

The fact is, whether Ireland is especially Catholic anymore or not, Christmas is part of our national culture. The idea of an Irish culture is an assumption that the existence of the state itself depends on; thus the state is compelled to recognise this culture.

Fanny Cradock

Mayordenis, I had a softly spoken word with you via PM a number of days ago - this related to your behavior on a couple of completely unrelated threads in a different forum. During the course of this correspondence, I never accused you of trolling - instead, I made a not unreasonable request of you. Other than what I imagine to be a sizable a chip on your shoulder, I can't imagine why you are airing your grievances here and now. And if, during our off forum discourse, you feel that I have acted inappropriately, please PM me or take it to feedback. On the other hand, if you believe that my contribution to this thread has breached the charter or been in general bad taste, report the post. You're a mod, you should know these things. Sorry for going off topic.

Galvasean

Why does the glue on stamps taste magically delicious? Power of Christ or just a compound of tasty chemicals?

SilkySmooth

Zamboni wrote: »

I bought a book of stamps in my local post office today and walking up the road I opened them to find baby jesus wriggling in his nest on each of them. :rolleyes:
I had to go back and ask did they have any others.
'But they're Christmas stamps' said the Post Office Teller. I said 'Great, any chance of a few snowmen instead?' No, they're the only ones we have other than the normal stamps.
So I got a book of normal stamps and said 'It's a disgrace they're still putting religious icons on the stamps of this state'. She said we were Catholic country. I said, we were as in past tense and walked out.

Call me pedantic, call me scrooge but what a crock of s**t that they still do this. Surely they could just use non-religious christmas stamps with snowmen, snow landscape, polar bears drinking coke etc.?

This type of thing makes me want to attend this Atheist Assoc thingy tomorrow.

Yeah, the terrible, terrible injustice of it all.;)
Come on, their stamps. nobody is forcing their religion on you.

Dades

It seems opinions are very divided on this one!

Let's all address the posts and not the posters and nobody will get hurt. And by hurt I mean modded.

Zamboni

So I'm a ridiculous fanatic for exchanging stamps :rolleyes: Get a grip.
I'm hardly burning down churches or attacking priests.

There is nothing wrong with the fact that Ireland has a christian past and that it played a part in our culture. Sure I'm going to Handels Messiah tonight because I can appreciate art/music irrelevant of its origin.
The simple point is, the state should not produce it on a stamp - which is a representation of Ireland throughout the world.
A christian stamp does not represent the state.

Dades

Zamboni wrote: »

So I'm a ridiculous fanatic for exchanging stamps :rolleyes:

But you were able to exchange stamps?

So the issue is that you were offered a Christmas one first?

jhegarty

Zamboni wrote: »

The simple point is, the state should not produce it on a stamp - which is a representation of Ireland throughout the world.

But people get to choose as to which stamp to send.

Your letters won't have one on them , and that is your right and the way it should be.

But if I want them on my letters , should I not be allowed ?

Deedsie

Vast majority of the Country have some affiliation to a religion of some kind long may the tradition continue. Why do you refer to this time of year as Christmas? surely it should be the Holidays? And Boxing day (Horrible term).

Galvasean

jhegarty wrote: »

But if I want them on my letters , should I not be allowed ?

Not at the expense of non-religious taxpayers (I believe is the point).

Dades

Do stamps cost the taxpayer?

Wouldn't the price of printing stamps not be factored into the value (cost) of the stamp?

ChocolateSauce

Dades wrote: »

Do stamps cost the taxpayer?

Wouldn't the price of printing stamps not be factored into the value (cost) of the stamp?

That's my take on it. I would be more annoyed if I was paying for religious stamps, but only people who actually buy them are contributing.

Galvasean

ChocolateSauce wrote: »

That's my take on it. I would be more annoyed if I was paying for religious stamps, but only people who actually buy them are contributing.

Well then, so long as we can chose which stamps we get i see no problem.

carlrac

Zamboni wrote: »

Call me pedantic, call me scrooge but what a crock of s**t that they still do this. Surely they could just use non-religious christmas stamps with snowmen, snow landscape, polar bears drinking coke etc.?

So you get all worked up about having harmless traditional (read: not purely religious) pictures on stamps, yet you would prefer to promote a huge company's advertisement instead?

Maybe i'm just trolling here, but doesn't that seem a little silly? :rolleyes:

jhegarty

Galvasean wrote: »

Not at the expense of non-religious taxpayers (I believe is the point).

Do they cost more to produce than the bird stamps ?

Galvasean

jhegarty wrote: »

Do they cost more to produce than the bird stamps ?

Making a new line of stamps would cost extra (regardless of what said new line has as the picture).
However it has been pointed out to me that An Post are not government (and thereby taxpayer) funded. In that respect they can make the religious ones all they want so long as the bird ones are still available.

ChocolateSauce

Galvasean wrote: »

Well then, so long as we can chose which stamps we get i see no problem.

Yep. Case settled, it seems to me.

Dades

This could be a first for A&A!

Zamboni

Galvasean wrote: »

However it has been pointed out to me that An Post are not government (and thereby taxpayer) funded. In that respect they can make the religious ones all they want so long as the bird ones are still available.

The company is a limited liability company, incorporated under the Companies Act, 1963 to 1983. Under the Postal and Telecommunications Services Act, 1983, the Company is entitled to omit the word - 'Limited’ from its name.

One ordinary share is held by the Minister for Finance and the remainder of the issued share capital is held by the Minister for Communications, Marine and Natural Resources.

Taken from http://www.anpost.ie/AnPost/MainContent/About+An+Post/An+Post+at+a+glance/

Dades

Interesting.

So going on the basis of the last Annual Report, the operating profit of €29.1m remains in the hands of the government. Which suggests is that not only do Baby Jesus stamps not cost the taxpayer a cent, but that their popularity may be in fact be contributing to the public coffers!

Fanny Cradock

Zamboni wrote: »

The company is a limited liability company, incorporated under the Companies Act, 1963 to 1983. Under the Postal and Telecommunications Services Act, 1983, the Company is entitled to omit the word - 'Limited’ from its name.

One ordinary share is held by the Minister for Finance and the remainder of the issued share capital is held by the Minister for Communications, Marine and Natural Resources.

Taken from http://www.anpost.ie/AnPost/MainContent/About+An+Post/An+Post+at+a+glance/

http://boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=58079617&postcount=15

Zamboni

Dades wrote: »

Interesting.

So going on the basis of the last Annual Report, the operating profit of €29.1m remains in the hands of the government. Which suggests is that not only do Baby Jesus stamps not cost the taxpayer a cent, but that their popularity may be in fact be contributing to the public coffers!

LOL

By the looks of it there has been nativity scenes every poxy xmas right the way back!

Jaysus sells, who'd a guessed?

I still say a couple of robins or something would be better than favouring christianity over everyone else in the country.

I'm going to take the positive out of all this though...
Think of all the post going to Islamic countries with Jaysus wriggling in his nest on them

Zamboni

Fanny Cradock wrote: »

http://boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=58079617&postcount=15

Thanks but I prefer the way An Post says it.

Valmont

ChocolateSauce wrote: »

I would be more annoyed if I was paying for religious stamps, but only people who actually buy them are contributing.

I bought some stamps yesterday and was delighted to get baby jesus, mainly because I thought of Zamboni. But I've started to feel very guilty. I realised that I'm directly financing and supporting the oppression of the catholic church, perpetuating their strangle-hold on all that is good and honest in this country. I feel so dirty.

Galvasean

I found a stamp we can all enjoy!

lostexpectation

yeah, who or what would a&a put on a stamp, we could suggest it to an post, is there a site with all present stamps im sure they might have ones to certain famous irish figures already,

sceptre

The Mad Hatter wrote: »

Off-topic, sorry.

A friend of mine who grew up in Tokyo told me about a Japanese Christmas decoration she saw when she was a kid - it was Santa Claus on a crucifix.

Did she now...

http://www.snopes.com/holidays/christmas/cross.asp