o2 Iphone returns help/advise

Sam Vimes

Nody wrote: »

Not to go any further OT but in Foggy's defence it also has to be stated that he has greatly improved over the last months in terms of backing up his statements.

this is true. i have noticed that over the past few months that he's been a lot more careful in what he says

AARRRGH

This is the most ridiculous thread I have ever read.

foggy_lad

to quote Ben Dunne

how can you defend the indefencible?

anyone thet insists you must take your faulty iphone or any other item back to the manufacturer for repair is not right! legally it is the shop or company you bought the item from that must provide a remedy and regardless of how much backing up i do with links etc this basic point is not going to change!

Sam Vimes

foggy_lad wrote:

http://boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=54880092&postcount=1
[/b]saying you had the opportunity to access people's accounts if ye so wished.

i'm not getting into a big argument with you so this is the only part i'll respond to since it was a personal attack on my and dal's character which i found very insulting

you used the words "open to abuse", "marketing" and "criminal activity" among several other implications of impropiety. you did not simply say we "had the opportunity to access people's accounts if ye so wished"

Nody

AARRRGH wrote: »

This is the most ridiculous thread I have ever read.

Clearly you did not read the one here about the beer keg making a funny sound! :pac:

Sam Vimes

anyway, back to the main issue. Legally o2 are not allowed force you to go to the manufacturer BUT the apple service is quick and efficient, more quick and efficient than using o2 as a middleman in the process. Apple have dealt with thousands of returns, the o2 store has probably never tried to send one back before. There's no procedure so mistakes are very likely. Apple may not even want to deal with them because it's not their procedure, adding more delays

Yes you can insist on your rights to the letter of the law and force o2 to send it back for you but i maintain it's easier for all concerned, including the customer, to just follow the same procedure that everyone else does. There's no reason to insist that o2 do it

craichoe

Nody wrote: »

Clearly you did not read the one here about the beer keg making a funny sound! :pac:

You mean the poisonous killer beerkeg with the funny noise coming from it ?


Look guys its simple, if there was something wrong, i.e. a software issue with an iPhone that could be solved with simple steps over the phone, do you think that it should just be replaced because of user error, then O2 are left with a phone they can't return because theres nothing physically wrong with it.

With all the new consumer electronics out now its impossible to keep sales staff up on all the troubleshooting steps. It would be different if it was a car, i.e. could be repaired at the garage you bought it from.

It would be akin to someone bringing back a PC to a shop and saying its broken because they can't get a home movie onto it from their camera.

This has to be ruled out first ! Its not fair on the retailer and only pisses the consumer off more if it comes back NO FAULT FOUND.

needhelpguy

If, for instance, the OP went directly to the manufacturer for repair, does that mean that he loses the right to deal with the shop again and thus any refund/replacement process he may need to take up?

Sam Vimes

needhelpguy wrote: »

If, for instance, the OP went directly to the manufacturer for repair, does that mean that he loses the right to deal with the shop again and thus any refund/replacement process he may need to take up?

i don't see why it would. for one thing he doesn't have to tell o2 that he sent it back with apple before. and if he was to send it back through o2 it'd end up going back to exactly the same people so i don't see how they could refuse to deal with it

MunsterCycling

Sam Vimes wrote: »

i don't see why it would. for one thing he doesn't have to tell o2 that he sent it back with apple before. and if he was to send it back through o2 it'd end up going back to exactly the same people so i don't see how they could refuse to deal with it

http://www.consumerconnect.ie/eng/Learning_Zone/FAQs/Faulty_goods/

Question 3

MC

Sam Vimes

MunsterCycling wrote: »

http://www.consumerconnect.ie/eng/Learning_Zone/FAQs/Faulty_goods/

Question 3

MC

right so that confirms it

foggy_lad

Walkman wrote: »

how do you know how well trained staff an phone shops and nowadays foggy? Are you not banned from nearly every phone shop in carlow? Were you also not going to picket the 3 store due to the fact that some sites you wanted to view could not be viewed on a mobile phone, not exactly 3's fault you would have been better off getting onto the site admin's

no i am only barred from the carphone warehouse for insisting on my right to have a phone replaced but the manager was very awkward leading me to getting a refund, the sites i wanted to view on my three mobile were already mobile sites but blocked by three's policicy of not alllowing adults choose the content they accessed on their own phone!(i was age verified at the time but three were and probably still are blocking all adult sites) nothing to do with site admins!

craichoe wrote: »

You mean the poisonous killer beerkeg with the funny noise coming from it ?


Look guys its simple, if there was something wrong, i.e. a software issue with an iPhone that could be solved with simple steps over the phone, do you think that it should just be replaced because of user error, then O2 are left with a phone they can't return because theres nothing physically wrong with it.

With all the new consumer electronics out now its impossible to keep sales staff up on all the troubleshooting steps. It would be different if it was a car, i.e. could be repaired at the garage you bought it from.

It would be akin to someone bringing back a PC to a shop and saying its broken because they can't get a home movie onto it from their camera.

This has to be ruled out first ! Its not fair on the retailer and only pisses the consumer off more if it comes back NO FAULT FOUND.

yes a lot of things can be dealt with over the phone with apple even a cracked back cover can be posted out to a customer etc but there are so many known faults with the quality of the phone and faulty materials used that a lot of issues will require a full replacement and due to many of the phones involved being brand new a refurbished phone is not in the customers interest as it seriously dimishes the value of their purchase.

if apple came out and stated they would provide "new" handsets in such circumstances it would do away with people's need to deal with o2 for replacement of out of the box faults as a repaired/refurbished handset is practically worthless compared to a brand new i-phone,

at the moment if you open your new i-phone box and the phone is damaged or faulty you are told you must send it back to apple for assessment and repair or replacement but you will probably recieve a refurbished handset as replacement?

Sam Vimes

firstly, i seriously doubt your only reason for insisting that o2 do the swap is that apple give refurbished handsets as replacements. You would do the same with any product and any retailer and you know you would

Secondly, the o2 store will not call apple and go through all the troubleshooting steps with them on the phone for every customer, it's not their job. They will just send it off, INCREASING the likelihood of getting a refurbished handset when all that's needed might be a reset. Your logic only works if o2 will replace it on the spot which they most likely won't since apple won't refund them for this unauthorised replacement. O2 could be very generous and go above and beyond the manufacturers warranty, giving out replacements even though they won't get any money back but they'd very quickly go out of business

Thirdly, how do you know that apple give out mostly refurbished handsets?

Fourthly, who says a refurbished handset is worth so much less than a new one? Most products are just made in the factory and sent out to you. A refurbished one has had every one of its features tested to the manufacturers specification and is "as new". How much is generally wiped off the value can i ask?

Fifthly, when all you're entitled to is a repair, you can have a refurbished handset or your own handset repaired, making it a refurbished handset. Either way the value is the same. You're not entitled to a new replacement and you're just trying to force o2 to take the hit because you want something you're not entitled to

Sam Vimes

foggy_lad wrote: »

no i am only barred from the carphone warehouse for insisting on my right to have a phone replaced but the manager was very awkward leading me to getting a refund, the sites i wanted to view on my three mobile were already mobile sites but blocked by three's policicy of not alllowing adults choose the content they accessed on their own phone!(i was age verified at the time but three were and probably still are blocking all adult sites) nothing to do with site admins!

Lots of people were very insistent when i worked in cpw. Never felt the need to bar any of them

notahappycamper

I had a problem with my 1st gen Iphone - strange problem in that it would not turn off i.e. when it powered down it just re-started itself! I brought it back to the shop who said it would take about a month to get fixed if it went through them. They suggested I deal directly with Apple and I did.

I rang them up they went through the usual questions and asked if I had the latest update which I did. Then they arranged for UPS to pick up the Iphone and I had a refurbished/new one within 2 or 3 days which I thought was a good result.

craichoe

foggy_lad wrote: »

no i am only barred from the carphone warehouse for insisting on my right to have a phone replaced but the manager was very awkward leading me to getting a refund, the sites i wanted to view on my three mobile were already mobile sites but blocked by three's policicy of not alllowing adults choose the content they accessed on their own phone!(i was age verified at the time but three were and probably still are blocking all adult sites) nothing to do with site admins!

ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha

foggy_lad

Sam Vimes wrote: »

firstly, i seriously doubt your only reason for insisting that o2 do the swap is that apple give refurbished handsets as replacements. You would do the same with any product and any retailer and you know you would

Secondly, the o2 store will not call apple and go through all the troubleshooting steps with them on the phone for every customer, it's not their job. They will just send it off, INCREASING the likelihood of getting a refurbished handset when all that's needed might be a reset. Your logic only works if o2 will replace it on the spot which they most likely won't since apple won't refund them for this unauthorised replacement. O2 could be very generous and go above and beyond the manufacturers warranty, giving out replacements even though they won't get any money back but they'd very quickly go out of business

Thirdly, how do you know that apple give out mostly refurbished handsets?

Fourthly, who says a refurbished handset is worth so much less than a new one? Most products are just made in the factory and sent out to you. A refurbished one has had every one of its features tested to the manufacturers specification and is "as new". How much is generally wiped off the value can i ask?

Fifthly, when all you're entitled to is a repair, you can have a refurbished handset or your own handset repaired, making it a refurbished handset. Either way the value is the same. You're not entitled to a new replacement and you're just trying to force o2 to take the hit because you want something you're not entitled to

a refurbished handset is not a new replacement and if i had just bought a phone and it was faulty i would want expect and hope that the shop would have enough respect for their customers to provide the service they have been paid for ie a handset that is new and in perfect working order! a refurbished handset is NOT NEW.

o2 have a policy whereby faulty handsets will be replaced with new so offering a refurbished handset is going against their own policy and apple has no input into how o2 deals with o2's customers they are not party to the contract of sale between the customer and 02

have you asked apple if they give out refurbished handsets as new replacements?

"as new" is pre-owned, refurbished, repaired, previously faulty etc and people that have paid huge sums for their handsets should be entitled to have the "new" handset they have paid for as any repair seriously diminishes the value of the handsets and also takes the value of the product for the customer who goes from having a shiny new iphone to an old repaired piece of junk. as for the value have you priced a 2nd hand i-phone that is advertised as repaired? there are very few if any as people know they will get nowhere near the original price paid if there was any interest in the phone at all!

but it is not up to apple or o2 to say that all you are entitled to is a repair! it is replace repair or refund but you do not have to accept what is offered, if a replacement is offered and you think a "new" replacement should be given you can refuse and seek a refund if o2 are only offering a "refurb".

Sam Vimes wrote: »

Lots of people were very insistent when i worked in cpw. Never felt the need to bar any of them

the person i dealt with was particularly rude in dealing with me and expected me to accept what he was saying about the shop not having any obligation towards me as their customer, which i would not!

Sam Vimes

foggy_lad wrote: »

a refurbished handset is not a new replacement and if i had just bought a phone and it was faulty i would want expect and hope that the shop would have enough respect for their customers to provide the service they have been paid for ie a handset that is new and in perfect working order! a refurbished handset is NOT NEW.

that may be what you expect but that's not what the law says you're entitled to. as you know the law allows the retailer to repair, replace or refund.

and when you say they should "have enough respect....", do you mean that they should give you a new handset even though they can't get any credit back for the one they're taking back, leaving them down the value of the phone? because that's what you're asking them to do

foggy_lad wrote: »

o2 have a policy whereby faulty handsets will be replaced with new so offering a refurbished handset is going against their own policy and apple has no input into how o2 deals with o2's customers they are not party to the contract of sale between the customer and 02

firstly, they only have that policy in the first 28 days after which they replace with refurbished handsets. and what allows them to have that policy is that that is the policy followed by the manufacturers of the other phones they sell. they give you a new phone then they send the old one back to the manufacturer and get credit. apple has no such policy and o2 are rightly not willing to take the hit on every faulty iphone they sell. the warranty doesn't end with you and the store. they also have a warranty with the manufacturer and they have no obligation to give you a replacement if apple won't give them one. it's not their fault the iphone is faulty, it's apple's

foggy_lad wrote: »

have you asked apple if they give out refurbished handsets as new replacements?

no i haven't but i'm not making any claims as to whether they do or not. the more important question is have you?

foggy_lad wrote: »

"as new" is pre-owned, refurbished, repaired, previously faulty etc and people that have paid huge sums for their handsets should be entitled to have the "new" handset they have paid for as any repair seriously diminishes the value of the handsets

now you're talking about what they should be entitled to, not what they are entitled to. a retailer is entitled to repair a handset and giving a refurbished one is effectively the same thing. maybe people should be entitled to a new one but that's a battle to be fought with the makers of consumer law, not the local o2 store

foggy_lad wrote: »

but it is not up to apple or o2 to say that all you are entitled to is a repair! it is replace repair or refund but you do not have to accept what is offered, if a replacement is offered and you think a "new" replacement should be given you can refuse and seek a refund if o2 are only offering a "refurb".

absolutely you can. in any situation with consumer law you are perfectly entitled to bring them to the small claims court if you're not satisfied with the remedy offered. doesn't mean you'll win, especially in this case, where the remedy being offered is perfectly reasonable

foggy_lad wrote: »

the person i dealt with was particularly rude in dealing with me and expected me to accept what he was saying about the shop not having any obligation towards me as their customer, which i would not!

was he particularly rude, or did he become rude in response to rudeness?

Walkman

@foggy...what would you gain out of picketing the 3 store only an article in your local paper. What would you say to them? How you hate 3 because you cant look at porn on your phone? I just looked at some adult sites (just to prove a point) with no problem what so ever. By the way dont forget about the meteor store in carlow......your also barred from there, would I be correct in saying you are know around carlow by retailers as a bit of a nightmare to deal with? Let me answer that for you YOU ARE

Sam Vimes

Walkman wrote: »

I just looked at some adult sites (just to prove a point) with no problem what so ever

they actually do block some porn sites or they did at least. i can't remember which ones though and i don't know if they're still blocked.

and sure, just to prove a point

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055160251 btw

foggy_lad

Walkman wrote: »

@foggy...what would you gain out of picketing the 3 store only an article in your local paper. What would you say to them? How you hate 3 because you cant look at porn on your phone? I just looked at some adult sites (just to prove a point) with no problem what so ever. By the way dont forget about the meteor store in carlow......your also barred from there, would I be correct in saying you are know around carlow by retailers as a bit of a nightmare to deal with? Let me answer that for you YOU ARE

can you please let me know how you know i am barred from the meteor store in Carlow? i was only in the very same store less than ten days ago and the staff member i spoke to was very helpful and even offered to order something for me which was not in stock but i declined preferring to get it online.

foggy_lad

Sam Vimes wrote: »

they actually do block some porn sites or they did at least. i can't remember which ones though and i don't know if they're still blocked.

and sure, just to prove a point

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055160251 btw

they used to block many sites with any adult content or links to adult content and many other sites with no adult content at all yet i could still access very suspect russian porn sites! and just for the record i was not looking to access porn sites but a few other chat sites and others with downloadable content but three decided to censor content for everyone regardless of being age verified!

Sam Vimes

foggy_lad wrote: »

can you please let me know how you know i am barred from the meteor store in Carlow? i was only in the very same store less than ten days ago and the staff member i spoke to was very helpful and even offered to order something for me which was not in stock but i declined preferring to get it online.

you said "let me know how you know i am barred". if you weren't barred you'd think you would have said "let me know why you think i am barred".

were you barred from the store at any stage?

foggy_lad

Sam Vimes wrote: »

you said "let me know how you know i am barred". if you weren't barred you'd think you would have said "let me know why you think i am barred".

were you barred from the store at any stage?

dam my cheap education and poor grammer! and NO i am not now and never have been barred from the Meteor store on tullow street in Carlow

tony1kenobi

foggy_lad wrote: »

anyone thet insists you must take your faulty iphone or any other item back to the manufacturer for repair is not right! legally it is the shop or company you bought the item from that must provide a remedy and regardless of how much backing up i do with links etc this basic point is not going to change!

You are absolutely right. So when the store do send it off don't piss and moan about the time it takes to repair it like the OP did.

Even a refurbished 3g iphone can't be more than 3 or 4 months old. They haven't been available that long.

foggy_lad

tony1kenobi wrote: »

You are absolutely right. So when the store do send it off don't piss and moan about the time it takes to repair it like the OP did.

Even a refurbished 3g iphone can't be more than 3 or 4 months old. They haven't been available that long.

you would pay full "new" price for a car with 20,000miles on the clock? or send a brand new tv back if faulty and accept one several weeks or months old?

craichoe

foggy_lad wrote: »

you would pay full "new" price for a car with 20,000miles on the clock? or send a brand new tv back if faulty and accept one several weeks or months old?

I hate to tell you this but alot of stuff you buy has already been repaired at some point in it manufacturing process, in a department called Rework.

A car is different, it requires servicing, hence would cost you most as that 20,000 mile service interval has been used up.

Refurbished simply means it doesn't come in an original retail box, some of the 'new items' from apple are older than the refurbs.

foggy_lad

craichoe wrote: »

I hate to tell you this but alot of stuff you buy has already been repaired at some point in it manufacturing process, in a department called Rework.

A car is different, it requires servicing, hence would cost you most as that 20,000 mile service interval has been used up.

Refurbished simply means it doesn't come in an original retail box, some of the 'new items' from apple are older than the refurbs.

but has it been sold to someone before and returned for being faulty etc and repaired and resold as a completly new unit? some stores/companies sell "refurbs" as totally new units!

craichoe

foggy_lad wrote: »

but has it been sold to someone before and returned for being faulty etc and repaired and resold as a completly new unit? some stores/companies sell "refurbs" as totally new units!

Depends on the product, in some cases yes, in others no.
Stores would/should never sell returns as they would have an RMA procedure, they wouldn't be able to refurbish products.

Manufacturers in some cases would sell returns as new after remanufacture and testing.

Depends on how you percieve second hand i guess, the new Renault Megane is made from 85% recycled materials, so i guess you could argue 85% of the car is second hand

foggy_lad

craichoe wrote: »

Depends on the product, in some cases yes, in others no.
Stores would/should never sell returns as they would have an RMA procedure, they wouldn't be able to refurbish products.

Manufacturers in some cases would sell returns as new after remanufacture and testing.

Depends on how you percieve second hand i guess, the new Renault Megane is made from 85% recycled materials, so i guess you could argue 85% of the car is second hand

if you bought a new car and found it had been clocked and refurbished as new you would be very quick to demand redress! to say that new cars are xx% recycled is a poor argument as these parts are all brand new only produced using reclaimed materials! refurbished phones are not brand new or remanufactured but just wiped cleaned and repackaged.

if the phones were melted down and new phones made from the reclaimed materials there would be no problem but i would not want any "new" phone that was owned previously.