Puppy Revenge!

pandamoanium

Hey guys,

Ok, this is going to sound weird but here goes anyhow..

We have a 10 month old Samoyed whom we absolutely love and adore.

She's extremely well behaved and full house trained etc..

Now when she was a young puppy we used to bring her everywhere with us, anywhere we went we'd bring her in the car with us as we didn't like to leave her alone when she was so young, however she's now gotten so big and she sheds so much hair that it's not possible to bring her with us anymore in the car.

She hates to be left alone and whinges and cries whenever we leave her, even if it's only just a short trip to the shop etc..

However for the past few weeks we have noticed that whenever we leave her in the kitchen/dining room (Which is where we normally spend our time with her) and close the door so she can't get out, she yelps, cries, barks and then as mad as it seems she pees at the door in what appears to be an act of revenge!

At first we put it down to her being overly excitable at the prospect of us leaving her and that she couldn't help herself, however over the past few weeks it is becoming more and more apparent that she is deliberately urinating at the door as soon as we shut it almost in an "Fine, go! If you're gonna leave me, look at what I'm gonna do!!"

Aside from this she is fully trained and is very good about going to the back door and alerting us when she wants to go outside.

It's gotten to the point now whereby every time we leave her in the kitchen to go somewhere she pees on command as soon as the door is shut.

We leave her plenty of toys and food and water when we're gone, and it's never for more than an hour or two at most.

She hates being alone and is a real person dog who loves people. We've noticed that whenever we're away she just sits sad and alone at the door waiting for our return and doesn't touch her food or play with any toys.

Obviously we hate seeing her like this but it's not possible to bring her with us in the car for every little errand.

What can we do to help her settle in more at home whilst we're gone? And how can we get her out of this "tantrum peeing" for wont of a better word! lol

Thanks all

IvySlayer

Hmmm...are you sure it's a tantrum?

Maybe's he afraid of the dorr bang or really afriad of being alone? That or could be marking territo.y

pandamoanium

No, I don't think it's the door banging that unnerves her as first of all we'd never bang it, just close it gently, secondly she's not a nervous dog in general, loud noises don't scare her, she's extremely sociable with strangers and other dogs etc..

Marking her territory.. possibly, I'm not sure why she would always choose to do this just as we're leaving though?

Afraid of being alone? I hope that's not it. In general she's a very happy, playful, sociable dog. She does seem to get sad when she's on her own but I wouldn't use the word afraid. She's well used to the kitchen/dining room as that's where we spend 99% of the time and she's always with us there, sleeps there etc.. So I can't think of any reason why she'd be afraid of it, as she's well used to it's environs at this stage.

Obviously I'm no expert so I can't say for sure that it's a tantrum, but that's really what it looks like.

There's even been a few occasions whereby I'll be in the kitchen/dining room with her and one or both of my parents will leave to go, cue the barking, yelping and this peeing on the floor - and that's while I'm actually there with her.

She loves to be doing what we're doing, she puts her head into everything and follows everyone around the house.

It really is as if it's a case of "Fine, leave me, but there'll be trouble, look at what I'm doing, see you'll have to bring me with you next time!"

I hope it's not seperation anxiety that she has.. As I said, she's often done it with someone in the room with her, just because someone else leaves, she likes to have us all together.

It doesn't come across as being nerves whereby she wets herself uncontrollably (She did this a few times when she was a pup when she hadn't the full control of her bladder and the pee would just fall out of her where she had no control of herself, but this is different, she deliberately and consciously squats down to do it so she knows what she's doing)

She's extremely clever and is well behaved every other way. It's not a major deal her peeing on the tiled floor, however it's happening nearly every time we leave now and obviously we'd like to get it under control.

Spica

dogs don't do things for 'revenge'
it might be a sign of distress, samoyed are well known for being pack animals and this is the way she learned to cope with you leaving the room. Have you tried crate training? you can train her to stay in the crate when you have to go for short trips. Just make sure that you do it right and that she associates the crate with a very postive experience.

pandamoanium

Hi Spica,

No we never used crates with her, tbh imo I don't like them personally, I think it's a bit mean to leave a dog cooped up in one, I'd much rather let her have the room to wander around, play, eat and drink etc.. or just curl up and have a snooze (She's very fond of the couch!)

However, I do know that a lot of people have great success with them and have nothing but praise for them, so perhaps it is something I'll look into more and may be swayed on

I know it sounds laughable, but it really does look as though she does it to spite us! Could she really be that intelligent? (We think she is, but then again we would say that wouldn't we! lol)

Of course she's being an angel now curled up beside me on the couch, you'd think butter wouldn't melt in her mouth!

Spica

I am not a big fan of crates too but with some dogs it really works. The idea behind it is to make the crate a place where the dog feels totally safe and where she knows that she can relax. The dog should be happy to get into the crate and you shouldn't leave her in there for more than 3 hours. If you search on the net I am sure you will find a lot of useful tips on how to start crate training

peasant

It's not a tantrum, it's a ritual.

You used to take her everywhere, now you don't anymore, of course she is upset. Dogs are very much creatures of habit and thrive on set routines. The routine used to be: you go, she goes. And as you really took her everywhere when she was small, she has no experience / routine of being alone. This is very distressing to her. In a way the barking,yelping and scratching are to be expected. The "peeing on command" however is a bit OTT. This is something she has "taught" herself. No point in asking why or what for, she wouldn't have an answer for it either, even if she could talk. It just so happened that she peed one (or several) times when being left alone and that is now part of her "anxiety ritual" ...to such a degree that she even performs it when it isn't quite necesseray.

Getting her out of it is not going to be easy, as you have to deal with two issues here:

1) you have to get her used to being alone
2) you have to replace the "anxiety ritual" with a different one that has her quiet, calm and relaxed.


1) teaching her to stay on her own
Has to be done in stages from very small steps and in small increments. The biggest problem (for you) is also that it has to be done matter-of-factly. You have the right to come and go as you please, without telling her, without goodbyes (no rituals !) and she has to accept that and learn that no harm will come to her.
The issue is that dogs aren't stupid, they recognise the signs of someone preparing to leave (putting on shoes and coat, getting the keys, etc) and they can sense the signs even before they happen. This then builds up to a huuge expectation (yes, yes ...WE are leaving) and ends in massive disappointment (no, they left without me) ...all accompanied by big theatre.

It is very hard for you to keep calm in these situations ...impossible for the dog. But excitement, noise and chaos only make things worse.

So you have to do things calmly and in small steps.
Leave her alone in the room with the door open (you just in another room)
Split your departure ritual into its single steps and perform them on their own.
(For example: put on your coat and leave it on for a while without going anywhere ...grab the keys and put them back ...take shoes on and off, etc all without actually leaving her)
All the while she should just sit/lie there and not get excited any more. You can see now (I guess) that training that that will take a while.

Once you can go through leaving motions in relative calm, then you can start on actually leaving ...making the periods of absence ever longer from just a second behind the door to a few minutes round the corner to actually leaving her behind.

This will take a while and there will be setbacks ...just keep at it.

It is also important not to crate a fuss ...neither when leaving, but especially not when coming back. Just come back in and ignore her for a while. She has to learn (and accept) that you coming and going is nothing special ...so don't make it special.


2) stopping the "anxiety ritual", most importantly, the peeing

That's going to be difficult and I'm not really sure what to advise

You could simply try and change location. So the next time someone else leaves and you're left behind with her, make sure that she isn't in the kitchen (the spot associated with peeing) and she simply may not do it elsewhere.

If that doesn't work you will have to try distraction. Again, when someone else leaves, be with her in a different room and get her attention (play with her) while these people are leaving.

Once either of the above methods works, you can try leaving yourself (only for a short period) and when that happens without accident, than you can try putting her back into the kitchen again.

This will also be not easy and will need the willing cooperation from your visitors.


But the reason why it is going to be so hard is your mistake of not getting her used to being alone while she was still small ...it would have been so much easier then. So please don't get angry at ther, it's not her fault. Just be patient and keep trying.

Good luck.

cos!!

hey!i think it could be seperation anxiety!sounds like in her mind shes leader of the "pack" like when you went out she came everywhere to suss the place out and be part of the pack!when you leave she gets destressed because she dosent know where you are whats going to happen ect. and she cant be there to "protect" you?you'll have to demote her position so you and your family are of higher status?

peasant

Cos, read Jan Fennell, have you?

EGAR

cos!! wrote: »

hey!i think it could be seperation anxiety!sounds like in her mind shes leader of the "pack" like when you went out she came everywhere to suss the place out and be part of the pack!when you leave she gets destressed because she dosent know where you are whats going to happen ect. and she cant be there to "protect" you?you'll have to demote her position so you and your family are of higher status?

I am sorry, but dominance theory, down ranking and all that crap is outdated and should NOT be applied, regardless of what self-appointed dog training gurus might spout.

It sounds to me like a case of seperation anxiety. The use of a crate is a great help for an insecure dog, it's not the cage for the dog to be locked up in but rather a safe *cave* for the dog to feel secure in. No one is suggesting you should lock the dog up 24/7. Properly applied and maybe with the help if DAP diffuser it can work wonders with dogs suffering from SA.

cos!!

and ceasar milan!!!

Sigma Force

Get some wipeable covers for your car and start taking the dog out with you another option is getting a crate for the car it's safer anyway and the dog can be put in there while travelling.

Anyone that has a dog esp. if you go out of your way to get one with such a coat is in no position to be car proud. I don't understand as to why you could bring her everywhere as a pup and now all of a sudden you can't. Of course you shouldn't have to take the dog all the time and the dap and all the other suggestions may help but at the end of the day you got the dog used to being with you from a young age and then suddenly cutting her off has left her confused and stressed.

Of course it's important for the dog to learn to be alone you can't be there 24/7