Henry takes another ( deserved? ) pot shot at NH rugby

RuggieBear

grand slam tours are tours in which they play the four "home" nations: England, Scotland, Wales and Ireland

thehighground

RuggieBear wrote: »

grand slam tours are tours in which they play the four "home" nations: England, Scotland, Wales and Ireland

Well, Stu Wilson talks of UK Tour.

There are all sorts of Grandslams - i.e., 6Ns Grand Slam (which includes Italy & France), Tennis etc.

In this instance, he specifically says UK - and surely Stu Wilson would know that Ireland is not part of the UK.

Now, I'm not too sure why everyone is so pedantic about it being called a Grand Slam or not - fact is that they won all their games and it is relevant that two teams (Wales & Munster) gave a Graham Henry coached team, wearing All Black colours a game. Whether they fielded Richie McCaw or not, the style of play didn't change. Maybe the difference between NH & SH is in fact, Richie McCaw.

Kdub

thehighground wrote: »

Well, Stu Wilson talks of UK Tour.

There are all sorts of Grandslams - i.e., 6Ns Grand Slam (which includes Italy & France), Tennis etc.

In this instance, he specifically says UK - and surely Stu Wilson would know that Ireland is not part of the UK.

Now, I'm not too sure why everyone is so pedantic about it being called a Grand Slam or not - fact is that they won all their games and it is relevant that two teams (Wales & Munster) gave a Graham Henry coached team, wearing All Black colours a game. Whether they fielded Richie McCaw or not, the style of play didn't change. Maybe the difference between NH & SH is in fact, Richie McCaw.

Actually Highground it was the first successful Grandslam i..thats why it was such a huge feat that munster beat the all blacks where no other country hadnt on this tour...as the All blacks have lost to provincial teams in the past in other countries .Obviously Stu Wilson doesnt know that Ireland are not part of the UK or British...as is a common misconception in New Zealand.

anonymous_joe

Indeed. Plenty of New Zealanders fail to differentiate us from the English and teh rest of the UK.

Chucky the tree

anonymous_joe wrote: »

Eh...

Most of the private schools would be predominantly white Irish people and that's where most of the rugby players are coming from.

I reckon the football team and perhaps the odd Gah team will see more people who are adopted Irish.

Rugby isnt played in just private schools. Certainly now now a days, while it's a big breeding ground for Leinster players down in Munster it wouldnt be as common.

anonymous_joe

Chucky the tree wrote: »

Rugby isnt played in just private schools. Certainly now now a days, while it's a big breeding ground for Leinster players down in Munster it wouldnt be as common.

No, it's absolutely not. But in Leinster and in Cork the vast majority of the best schools are private. Not much of a surprise really, it's always been the way.

There's no doubts that as time passes more people will send their kids to school in these places, but probably not for a while.

Out of curiosity, given that it's 30 years since England first picked a black player to play for them in football, any idea when they first picked a guy who wasn't white?

And have Ireland ever picked a rugby player who wasn't white? Or at least anyone who wasn't Irish, or from SA/Oz/NZ...

ThomasH

anonymous_joe wrote: »

And have Ireland ever picked a rugby player who wasn't white? Or at least anyone who wasn't Irish, or from SA/Oz/NZ...

Ronan O'Gara?

anonymous_joe

ThomasH wrote: »

Ronan O'Gara?

Well on that note Heaslip was born in Israel. :P

But they're both Irish and from Irish backgrounds.

RuggieBear

chris saveromuto (sp?)

ThomasH

RuggieBear wrote: »

chris saveromuto (sp?)

Is that a real person?

Sangre

And have Ireland ever picked a rugby player who wasn't white? Or at least anyone who wasn't Irish, or from SA/Oz/NZ...

isaac boss?

anonymous_joe

Nah, not counting Boss, or lads like Ashley Ward.

Diamondmaker

thehighground wrote: »

Now, I'm not too sure why everyone is so pedantic about it being called a Grand Slam or not - fact is that they won all their games .

I think you will find you are the one being pedantic........and incorrect.

Serenity Now!

anonymous_joe wrote: »

Nah, not counting Boss, or lads like Ashley Ward.

Andy Ward.
Still at Ballynahinch.

Loads of players who are not Irish but Irish-qualified have been chosen for the national team. Poms such as Kev Maggs, Rob Henderson, The Easterbys, Simon Geogeghan, Jim Staples or players from the likes of Aussie (Brian Smith) or Sth Africa (Dion O'Cuinneagain)

thehighground

Kdub wrote: »

Actually Highground it was the first successful Grandslam i..thats why it was such a huge feat that munster beat the all blacks where no other country hadnt on this tour...as the All blacks have lost to provincial teams in the past in other countries .Obviously Stu Wilson doesnt know that Ireland are not part of the UK or British...as is a common misconception in New Zealand.

Actually Kdub, there is an interview on Munster Rugby, where Munster Club Development Manager Damon Urlich who is a kiwi says the first time he heard about Munster was back in 1978 when as a kid he came down for breakfast and he heard on the radio that Munster had beaten the ABs. He goes onto say how disappointed he was because they were hopeful of winning the Grand Slam that year. (about 1.50 mins in).

http://munsterrugby.wavenex.ie/team-thoughts/25-meet-our-in-house-kiwis

As for Stu Wilson -I actually read the full article. There are no direct quotes by Stu Wilson - so it is some journalist he wrote that. Any reference I've seen from are Grand Slam of Home Nations (which is accurate).

Whatever about people knowing that Ireland is/is not part of the UK nowadays - back then, Northern Ireland was rarely off the front pages of the world newspapers then and most people (particularly visitors to Ireland who would be considering their safety) would have known that Dublin was not part of Britain or the UK (so were unlikely to be targets for the IRA in Dublin/ROI).

More to the point - it is interesting the number of Kiwi staff that Munster have - Jason Holland is backs coach and Damon Urlich is Club development manager. You often hear the Munster players say about the Kiwis that they just expect to win.

And as I've pointed out before - the two teams that did best against the ABs on their Tour this year were Wales & Munster who all have kiwi coaching/player staff.

If you want to beat the ABs, surely that might be the way to go about it.

Kdub

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1978_All_Black_Grand_Slam_tour

See first paragraph, as a kiwi myself its in our folklore

i dont think its kiwi coaches as such..as most of the systems were put in place by kidney in the munster team...more about playing smarter and with passion and getting the basic right and done at pace..

Chucky the tree

anonymous_joe wrote: »

No, it's absolutely not. But in Leinster and in Cork the vast majority of the best schools are private.

In Cork yes, Pres and CBC are the two big ones, but not really in Munster. Munchins won the Senior cup 3 times in the last 8years and Castletroy did the double this year aswell so it's certainly not like Leinster.

Chucky the tree

thehighground wrote: »

And as I've pointed out before - the two teams that did best against the ABs on their Tour this year were Wales & Munster who all have kiwi coaching/player staff.

eh, Ireland did the best against NZ out all the teams.

Kdub

Chucky the tree wrote: »

eh, Ireland did the best against NZ out all the teams.

eh explain please??

Chucky the tree

Kdub wrote: »

eh explain please??

Ireland lost by 19, Wales lost 20.

ThomasH

Chucky the tree wrote: »

eh, Ireland did the best against NZ out all the teams.

Not sure about that. None of the Grand Slam teams could score a try against the ABs where as Munster scored a try.

NZ 22 : Ire 3
NZ 32 : Sco 6
NZ 32 : Eng 6
NZ 29 : Wal 9
NZ 18 : Mun 16

anonymous_joe

Serenity Now! wrote: »

Andy Ward.
Still at Ballynahinch.

Loads of players who are not Irish but Irish-qualified have been chosen for the national team. Poms such as Kev Maggs, Rob Henderson, The Easterbys, Simon Geogeghan, Jim Staples or players from the likes of Aussie (Brian Smith) or Sth Africa (Dion O'Cuinneagain)

I always confuse those two.

Lads like Maggs, Henderson and the Easterbys were all relatively Irish. But I'm curious as to whether anyone who wasn't from a Home Nation or one of the Tri Nations has ever represented us.

Chucky the tree wrote: »

In Cork yes, Pres and CBC are the two big ones, but not really in Munster. Munchins won the Senior cup 3 times in the last 8years and Castletroy did the double this year aswell so it's certainly not like Leinster.

Only played CBC and Pres as a kid, and it was a hell of a long time ago. ^^

In fairness Munster also has Glenstal etc who are all private. Yes, Munster aren't the same as Leisnter in terms of profile, but not massive;y dissimilar.

Kdub

Chucky the tree wrote: »

Ireland lost by 19, Wales lost 20.

ahaha cmon the score didnt reflect how the welsh played whereas the Ireland score flattered them

Chucky the tree

Kdub wrote: »

ahaha cmon the score didnt reflect how the welsh played whereas the Ireland score flattered them

meh, whats the point in playing well if you cant score?

thehighground

Kdub wrote: »

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1978_All_Black_Grand_Slam_tour

See first paragraph, as a kiwi myself its in our folklore

i dont think its kiwi coaches as such..as most of the systems were put in place by kidney in the munster team...more about playing smarter and with passion and getting the basic right and done at pace..

It still says a Grand Slam of Ireland, Wales, England Scotland:

They were the eighth All Black team to undertake a full tour of the countries and became the first to achieve a Grand Slam in beating the national teams of Ireland, Wales, England and Scotland. The previous seven touring parties had either lost or drawn at least one international, or had not played all four nations

.

Didn't think Kiwis did 'denial'

thehighground

Chucky the tree wrote: »

eh, Ireland did the best against NZ out all the teams.

Best defence maybe.

Kdub

thehighground wrote: »

It still says a Grand Slam of Ireland, Wales, England Scotland:

.

Didn't think Kiwis did 'denial'

We're just in Denial every 4 years or so :rolleyes:

anonymous_joe

thehighground wrote: »

Best defence maybe.

Not worth ignoring. Something's working very well for the Irish teams. Just need to build on the attacking aspects again.