Animal soul?

Whispered

Animals play a large role in the spirituality of a lot of people & cultures. From animal guides, animal based superstision, shamanism, totems etc.

What is the general idea of what happens to an animal when they die. People like to think that they go to the same place as we do (wherever you may believe that to be) and for many people, they would prefer to be where their animal is than where other people are.

Is it niave to think that animals have an individual soul? Millions and millions of ants compared to a faithful old dog who is adored by and adores his master.

What do you think happens when your beloved pets die? How does this compare to your belief of what happens when a farm animal, wild animal or insect dies?

kelly1

helena.ryan wrote: »

Animals play a large role in the spirituality of a lot of people & cultures. From animal guides, animal based superstision, shamanism, totems etc.

What is the general idea of what happens to an animal when they die. People like to think that they go to the same place as we do (wherever you may believe that to be) and for many people, they would prefer to be where their animal is than where other people are.

Is it niave to think that animals have an individual soul? Millions and millions of ants compared to a faithful old dog who is adored by and adores his master.

What do you think happens when your beloved pets die? How does this compare to your belief of what happens when a farm animal, wild animal or insect dies?

Hello Helena, as a Christian, I believe only humans and angels have souls.

The thing is, where do you draw the line? Do bacteria/amoeba or spermatazoa (sp?) have souls? Why dogs and not greenflys etc?

hiorta

All life has a spiritual base, so all life survives physical death.
It appears that there are 'spheres' that are able to receive and nurture the life force that applies to their own environment.

Anyway, given the barbarism inflicted by some humans on other life forms, perhaps it is they who choose to avoid further contact with the human, self-styled superiors.

Nerin

Depends really,you can't really blanket term it. Some animals may have souls,some may have an energy that doesn't count as a soul but is like it. Its a complicated topic.

Whispered

kelly1 wrote: »

Hello Helena, as a Christian, I believe only humans and angels have souls.

The thing is, where do you draw the line? Do bacteria/amoeba or spermatazoa (sp?) have souls? Why dogs and not greenflys etc?

Yes that is what I was wondering - see I don't see why an evil horrible person would have a soul when an animal who gave more in its life does not. People who are very close to their pet - well it just would not be heaven for them without their closest friend would it?

hiorta wrote: »

All life has a spiritual base, so all life survives physical death.
It appears that there are 'spheres' that are able to receive and nurture the life force that applies to their own environment.

Anyway, given the barbarism inflicted by some humans on other life forms, perhaps it is they who choose to avoid further contact with the human, self-styled superiors.

and who could blame them. This would be along the lines of my belief I suppose, but maybe that is just wishful thinking. Heavens just not heaven without animals.

Nerin wrote: »

Depends really,you can't really blanket term it. Some animals may have souls,some may have an energy that doesn't count as a soul but is like it. Its a complicated topic.

But what does it depend on?

Nerin

Well,i'd say it depends largely on different faiths for starters.
As kelly pointed out,he sees things such and such a way,probably drawing largely from christianitys views as his own. Whereas others would see animals in a different light depending on their faith,upbringing,or even just how they look at the world. Although i suppose faith plays the biggest part.

Whispered

Oh right, you mean it depends on the faith. I thought you meant it depends on the animal

Well in paganism, what happens? Or more to the point, what do you believe personally (not just directed at Nerin BTW, anybody who cares to answer)

Nerin

helena.ryan wrote: »

Oh right, you mean it depends on the faith. I thought you meant it depends on the animal

Well in paganism, what happens? Or more to the point, what do you believe personally (not just directed at Nerin BTW, anybody who cares to answer)

In what context,i'm complicated on the grounds that i've looked into many faiths,decided they didn't make sense to me,and became classified as a sort of animist,pagans are a bit hard to ask generally how they see things,because theres so many bloody types :P

Joe1919

The great medieval Irish philosopher Eriugena believed that all creatures, sinners and saints, and animals, as part of Gods creation, return to him in the end.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Johannes_Scotus_Eriugena
So everyone enjoys paradise in the end. Why not? If God is all powerful and all loving, he must surely do this.

Whispered

Nerin wrote: »

In what context,i'm complicated on the grounds that i've looked into many faiths,decided they didn't make sense to me,and became classified as a sort of animist,pagans are a bit hard to ask generally how they see things,because theres so many bloody types :P

Ok well leave all ideas of organised faith out of the equation. What do you, as an individual, forgetting what certain faiths or religions tell you, believe happens to our pets when they die, and how does that compare to what you believe happens to other animals, livestock etc.

I don't have a religion, I suppose I could say I'm a spiritualist. I would be as sure of the existence of animal souls as I would be of the existence of human souls. But of course that brings up the question, as Noel said above, where is the line drawn. How can I say that my dog or cats has a soul, but an insect does not? I'm finding it hard to reconcile my beliefs

Nerin

helena.ryan wrote: »

Ok well leave all ideas of organised faith out of the equation. What do you, as an individual, forgetting what certain faiths or religions tell you, believe happens to our pets when they die, and how does that compare to what you believe happens to other animals, livestock etc.

I don't have a religion, I suppose I could say I'm a spiritualist. I would be as sure of the existence of animal souls as I would be of the existence of human souls. But of course that brings up the question, as Noel said above, where is the line drawn. How can I say that my dog or cats has a soul, but an insect does not? I'm finding it hard to reconcile my beliefs

Well,i'd believe that yes,many animals have souls. Those that don't would have a spiritual energy,something unique. It depends what you see as a soul. If you believe in reincarnation,i'd say in my opinion animals could be reincarnated,if you believe in an afterlife like heaven,that they'd go there. Of course,we'd need to define what a soul is.
(My opinions extend to other things like plants and stuff. Also,they're just ideas or beliefs,i wouldn't state that its the most logical,or the hidden truth or anything. Probably wrong,but side by side with other beliefs,it makes sense to me.)

kelly1

helena.ryan wrote: »

Yes that is what I was wondering - see I don't see why an evil horrible person would have a soul when an animal who gave more in its life does not. People who are very close to their pet - well it just would not be heaven for them without their closest friend would it?

With God, there will be no need for pets because God will be the complete fulfilment of all our (good) desires.

BTW, I should correct my original response by saying that all living things have a soul but only humans have immortal souls because only human souls are spiritual and animals souls presumably are some kind of "life-force" like Chi or prana etc. Animal/plant souls die unlike human souls.

I think it is the soul which is life, not the beating of the heart or brain activity etc. The soul animates the human/animal/insect/bacterium.

Nevyn

I would say most animals have spirits/lifeforce which leaves when they die but I would say a few have souls as I don't think I can in all fairness rule out coming back as an animal for a turn on the wheel.

Whispered

Nerin wrote: »

Well,i'd believe that yes,many animals have souls. Those that don't would have a spiritual energy,something unique. It depends what you see as a soul. If you believe in reincarnation,i'd say in my opinion animals could be reincarnated,if you believe in an afterlife like heaven,that they'd go there. Of course,we'd need to define what a soul is.
(My opinions extend to other things like plants and stuff. Also,they're just ideas or beliefs,i wouldn't state that its the most logical,or the hidden truth or anything. Probably wrong,but side by side with other beliefs,it makes sense to me.)

Yes different ideas of what a soul is could complicate the question further. In my experience, which is admitedly very limited, animal energy feels very similar to human energy, just a bit lighter in a "champagne" sort of way.

kelly1 wrote: »

With God, there will be no need for pets because God will be the complete fulfilment of all our (good) desires.

BTW, I should correct my original response by saying that all living things have a soul but only humans have immortal souls because only human souls are spiritual and animals souls presumably are some kind of "life-force" like Chi or prana etc. Animal/plant souls die unlike human souls.

I think it is the soul which is life, not the beating of the heart or brain activity etc. The soul animates the human/animal/insect/bacterium.

I like the idea that the soul animates the body. Your sentence about a human having a spiritual soul and plants and animals have a life force is an interesting concept. But it brings up the question of where in our evolution did we develop, or were given a soul.

Can I ask, from a christian point of view, angels and humans are akin and animals are below?

Thaedydal wrote: »

I would say most animals have spirits/lifeforce which leaves when they die but I would say a few have souls as I don't think I can in all fairness rule out coming back as an animal for a turn on the wheel.

I can think of a few animals who would make you think they were half human Would you be of the opinion that a human can come back as an animal as a lesson, or as punishment, or is becoming human a step up from being an animal like spiritual "evolution".

Nerin

You could say a soul is a theme file,it holds important information and brings it from host to host.

I wouldn't like to even begin to try thinking of the complexities of reincarnation,such as a human being punished by being an icky animal. Makes no sense to me. How can you then punish an animal for being an animal. Animals in reincarnation make things tricky to explain alongside humans.

Actually,one could imagine religious leaders discussing animals in their religions and sayin "feck it,this is just going to be too complicated"

Gareth37

helena.ryan wrote: »

Animals play a large role in the spirituality of a lot of people & cultures. From animal guides, animal based superstision, shamanism, totems etc.

What is the general idea of what happens to an animal when they die. People like to think that they go to the same place as we do (wherever you may believe that to be) and for many people, they would prefer to be where their animal is than where other people are.

Is it niave to think that animals have an individual soul? Millions and millions of ants compared to a faithful old dog who is adored by and adores his master.

What do you think happens when your beloved pets die? How does this compare to your belief of what happens when a farm animal, wild animal or insect dies?

No, animals don't have souls.

Whispered

Gareth37 wrote: »

No, animals don't have souls.

Ok thank you. However I know many people who would just as quickly and confidently say "Animals do have souls". Most other people who answered tried to elaborate a bit on why they think what they think, would you like to do that?

Nerin

helena.ryan wrote: »

Ok thank you. However I know many people who would just as quickly and confidently say "Animals do have souls". Most other people who answered tried to elaborate a bit on why they think what they think, would you like to do that?

Don't bother helena. Trust me.

Nevyn

Nerin wrote: »

Don't bother helena. Trust me.

No need to get snippy I am sure gareth37 will be more then happy to point out, quote and link to here in the relevant sources this is said in christian dogma.
and I for one looks forward to such an enlightening and detailed response.

Whispered

Nerin wrote: »

Don't bother helena. Trust me.

Don't worry, I've seen Gareths other posts and I for one have found him endlessly entertaining.

I'm looking forward to seeing where it says in the bible animals don't have souls. Or how various verses can be interpeted as saying that. Although I am more interested in people who have thought about this, and come to a conclusion, as opposed to reading it in a book and repeating it. (no offence Gareth)

Gareth37

If you read Saint Birgitta of Sweden it is in there about animals somewhere.

I wished my dogs went to heaven but they don't

But all animals are God's animals.

I do love animals, dogs, birds (robins), even ducks, geese etc. I like to feed them and look after them. They cause no harm in the world

Gareth37

Nicest bird there is:

Nevyn

Could you please quote the passages which support your assertion.

Gareth37

Thaedydal wrote: »

Could you please quote the passages which support your assertion.

I will over the weekend, there are a lot of relevations to go through.

Do you like lambs:

Nevyn

I find they are incredibly tastey.

Gareth37

Thaedydal wrote: »

I find they are incredibly tastey.

I don't eat much lamb myself but my dad has a shed full of them fatnening them up for the factory. Will come in handy when the price of food rockets soon with the actions of the antichrist

Nevyn

Woudn't slaugthering of goats be more fitting ? there is a niche market for goats meat.

Whispered

Noooooooo, everyone stop talking about slaughtering lambs.

Nerin

Very good documentary about an african tribe,can't remember it though. They hunt gazelle by tiring it out. They single one out and follow it for miles until its tired out. Usually just one man. They keep following it until it can't run anymore. They then perform a ritual for the peaceful release of its soul,and then bring it back to the village and use every part of it. Theres alot of respect there.

Gareth37

Thaedydal wrote: »

Woudn't slaugthering of goats be more fitting ? there is a niche market for goats meat.

Don't worry, a day will come when the goats are slaughtered. Before you slaughter the goats you must separate them for the lambs.

Nevyn

I don't see how anyone could mix them up they sound and taste so differntly.