Who goes first - Ince or Keane? Hoped you voted Keane - All discussion in here

anonymous_joe

{(-_-)}HeadShoT** wrote: »

bookies favourites is sam allardyce

Jesus wept.

Awful football in the North East shocker.

Chucky the tree

JimiTime wrote: »

Never belittled him, not intentionally anyway. Think he's been great for Everton and certainly thrumps Keanes 2 and half years of management with his 10. The point is, what is success? Moyes hasn't won anything, struggled for consistancy at the start, yet we hail him as a good manager. Something I agree with. Yet Keane, who in his first year of management, not only does he win promotion, but wins the championship, from starting at rock bottom. Then he keeps them in the premier league. This season is far from disaster also, but the knives are out to say he's sh!t?! It reeks of just Anti Keane BS!

Give moyes £80million to spend in 2 seasons then see how good Everton are.

Also, whats such a good achievement about keeping them in the league? If any team gets promoted with a transfer kitty that Sunderland had I expect to see the team stay up and would judge getting relegated as a massive failure.

Chucky the tree

Carturo wrote: »

I wish people would stop bangin' on about the amount of money Keane's spent. He a bought a load of **** players for that money.

FYP.

Handsome Bob

jaykay74 wrote: »

Looking for a new jobs perhaps. "I've jumped ship baby"...

Ha ha imagine of team of Eamon Dunphy, Jamie Redknapp and Andy Gray.:D "No, no that's bollox Jamie.....":pac:

KevIRL

robbed from elsewhere....

Stand up. Mirror. Staring. Can I do it? A moment...NO. I'm ready. Get the dog lead. Get the wallet. Focus.


"Will you be going to the shops or not then Roy?"


It's the wife. Hands me the shopping list. On a post-it. Yellow. Like a card. Not red. Going for the ball.


"I'm not going to those f****** amateurs in Tesco again," I tell her. "Do you think Felipe Scolari's doing his shopping pushing a trolley with a busted wheel?"


I'm angry now, running it back in my mind...last time, the trolley, the big stack of baked beans half price, the wobbly wheel, children crying, losing control. Beans.


I'm sitting on the floor in the hall. The wife's standing there. "Just get a pint of milk from the corner then, love, " she says.


I get up. She comes at me. I kiss her, hard. On the cheek. The cheek was there (I think). "Take that," I think to myself.


"Take what?" she asks. I go out of the house.


Corner shop. Corner. Defend it. Zonal. I TOLD YOU TO PICK HIM UP - THAT WAS YOUR MAN.


Milk. Milk. Focus on the milk.


"Morning Roy." It's Mr Patel.


"You're a f****** crap newsagent and you're a f****** crap person," I say.


"Okay," he says.


I turn and look for the milk. Stuff, money, bag. Walking again. Blind man. Dog. Stick. Can't he see? Why can't he see? Can't he see that was offside? What is he doing?


I'm in the kitchen. Wife's unpacking the shopping. She's not happy. Teacups?


No. Shaking head.


"What's all this stuff, Roy?"


I don't understand. Stare.


"Roy. I've asked you out for a pint of milk. You've come back with four packets of rubber gloves, a Sodastream - I didn't know they still made them - six biros, not one but two copies of New Scientist, a case of Doctor Pepper and 400 Silk Cut. You don't even smoke, Roy."


"No," I say.


"And how much have you spent? Turn out your pockets," she says.


Coins, notes, clank, receipt.


"Roy."


She's talking.


"Roy, you've spent 85 quid on rubbish. Absolute rubbish. What were you thinking? And where the hell's the milk?"


Focus. Got to focus. Keep looking straight ahead. Focus.

quad_red

Chucky the tree wrote: »

Give moyes £80million to spend in 2 seasons then see how good Everton are.

Moyes already has a good squad, are secure premiership performers and can attract mid level talent.

Sunderland were in a complete mire and had a record breaking nightmare relegation season which coloured players attitudes and willingness to sign for the club.

Yeah - he paid over the odds. And yeah - he bought some turkeys. But I still think Keane's over all performances and legacy are positive.

Unearthly

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Yo, anyone got any links to a thread from when McCarthy was sacked as manager of Sunderland a few years back with them way adrift at the bottom of the premiership? :rolleyes:

Nope

JimiTime

quad_red wrote: »

Moyes already has a good squad, are secure premiership performers and can attract mid level talent.

Sunderland were in a complete mire and had a record breaking nightmare relegation season which coloured players attitudes and willingness to sign for the club.

Yeah - he paid over the odds. And yeah - he bought some turkeys. But I still think Keane's over all performances and legacy are positive.

^What he said. But thats hardly going to stop people who want to have a go from not looking at the whole picture.

PHB

Personally I thought Keane was a positive influence in the end, he did well. Surprised he left, not really sure why to be honest. Wonder will he get another premiership chance.

Im_No_Superman

PHB wrote: »

Personally I thought Keane was a positive influence in the end, he did well. Surprised he left, not really sure why to be honest. Wonder will he get another premiership chance.

Wonder will he want it?

He seemed pretty dissullisouned with the whole thing towards the end. Maybe he will feel management isnt for him, I hope this isnt the case as I feel overall he did a good job at Sunderland.

Mitch Connor

Chucky the tree wrote: »

Give moyes £80million to spend in 2 seasons then see how good Everton are.

Also, whats such a good achievement about keeping them in the league? If any team gets promoted with a transfer kitty that Sunderland had I expect to see the team stay up and would judge getting relegated as a massive failure.

Give Moyes 80million in two seasons and tell him to replace the entire first team with it, and see how it goes, with virtually no money coming in from the sale of any of the players he is replacing.

Sunderland went down twice, with record low point tallies both times. He was replacing a crap, CRAP squad of players.

I do think some of his buys have been poor, but you can't compare him to spending of big clubs, with established squads, or even teams like Hull and Stoke who have not been yo-yoing around the tables and have established squads.

Xavi6

PHB wrote: »

Personally I thought Keane was a positive influence in the end, he did well. Surprised he left, not really sure why to be honest. Wonder will he get another premiership chance.

United fans loyal til the end.

He didn't do well. He didn't even do enough. If he did he'd still be in the job.

Mitch Connor

Xavi6 wrote: »

United fans loyal til the end.

He didn't do well. He didn't even do enough. If he did he'd still be in the job.

depends on the point of view.

If he was sacked, he didn't do enough.

If he resigned, and the board apparently still wanted him to remain, then he had done enough by the cliubs measurement, if not his own.

Warper

How can people compare Moyes to Roy Keane

Moyes is a much better manager than Keane - he got Everton to 4th couple of years ago - the only team to knock the top 4 off their perch, finished 5th a couple of times, 1/4 final of UEFA cup and has spent less in 10 years in the transfer market than Keane has in 18 months.

Keane getting Sunderland promoted was a great job but that was a once-off achievement - it was his first job in management and the players rose to him because of his great playing days. Now a year later he is dead-wood, i mean look at his signings - Chopra, Yorke, Cole, Kavanagh etc etc etc, all players that would be lucky to get a game in the Championship. If he didnt walk he was getting the sack.

It seems the best managers in the Premiership are the ones that were crap at soccer - wenger,ferguson, scolari, benitez

But to say Keane is a better manager than Moyes - get a life

JimiTime

Xavi6 wrote: »

United fans loyal til the end.

He didn't do well. He didn't even do enough. If he did he'd still be in the job.

Petty Keane hater, bitter till the end. You've already taken delight, so you're hardly one to be shouting bias now in fairness!

LuckyLloyd

Xavi6 wrote: »

United fans loyal til the end.

lol Hypocriteaments

jaykay74

Warper wrote: »

It seems the best managers in the Premiership are the ones that were crap at soccer - wenger,ferguson, scolari, benitez

Fergie wasn't crap, far from it.

Xavi6

JimiTime wrote: »

Petty Keane hater, bitter till the end. You've already taken delight, so you're hardly one to be shouting bias now in fairness!

What's petty about it? The reasons for my Keane disliking are well justified.

If this thread was about Ince walking I'd be saying the same thing. He simply wasn't good enough.

JimiTime

Warper wrote: »

How can people compare Moyes to Roy Keane

FFS, nobody has!! The point was about what we call success! In no way has anyone said Keane is better than moyes etc. Read the flippin posts!

jaykay74

Xavi6 wrote: »

What's petty about it? The reasons for my Keane disliking are well justified.

If this thread was about Ince walking I'd be saying the same thing. He simply wasn't good enough.

There'd be no victory dance though

ghouldaddy07

Sad to hear about this.

Dont see the logic behind him leaving for either side.

Motivation for the squad will plummit and keane finishing the season and then leaving would have been better for his career.

Can only assume somthing went down behind the scenes.

JimiTime

Xavi6 wrote: »

What's petty about it? The reasons for my Keane disliking are well justified.
.

Well whatever your reasons, you are not in a position to be accusing others of bias due to your hatread of the man.

Helix

Mitch Connor wrote: »

Give Moyes 80million in two seasons and tell him to replace the entire first team with it, and see how it goes, with virtually no money coming in from the sale of any of the players he is replacing.

villa did it

Helix

ghouldaddy07 wrote: »

Can only assume somthing went down behind the scenes.

they hired someone to handle transfers earlier in the week afaik

LuckyLloyd

Xavi6 wrote: »

What's petty about it? The reasons for my Keane disliking are well justified.

If this thread was about Ince walking I'd be saying the same thing. He simply wasn't good enough.

HE CAPTAINED MY BIGGEST RIVALS DURING A PERIOD THAT THEY DOMINATED ALL AND WE WERE ****!!!!

Sure, they are well justified reasons to be biased against him now. :rolleyes:

Xavi6

JimiTime wrote: »

Well whatever your reasons, you are not in a position to be accusing others of bias due to your hatread of the man.

Why not? I accept my bias. It's fantastic news.

No harm in pointing out the obvious bias on the other side when someone says he did well!

AARRRGH

Keane is a quitter. He can't handle pressure.

I wish him luck but I knew this would happen.

JimiTime

Xavi6 wrote: »

Why not? I accept my bias. It's fantastic news.

No harm in pointing out the obvious bias on the other side when someone says he did well!

Its the 'he didn't do well' thing thats the issue. He accomplished two significant feats in 2 seasons, and didn't complete this season. So....
I guarantee, that if it was any other manager, we would not be talking about failure.

jaykay74

AARRRGH wrote: »

Keane is a quitter. He can't handle pressure.

I wish him luck but I knew this would happen.

You could be right that as a manager he just couldn't handle it. Don't try to argue it as a player though :eek:

Seperate

Quinn looked genuinely upset in his press conference there!

LuckyLloyd

AARRRGH wrote: »

Keane is a quitter. He can't handle pressure.

I wish him luck but I knew this would happen.

Wow, must be a nice Christmas for you so after you collect from the bookies. Assuming you backed your deep convictions by putting your money where your mouth is of course.

Boggles

Was he still commuting from Manchester?, Blackburn job would suit him down to the ground if he was.

Chucky the tree

Mitch Connor wrote: »

Give Moyes 80million in two seasons and tell him to replace the entire first team with it, and see how it goes, with virtually no money coming in from the sale of any of the players he is replacing.

Sunderland went down twice, with record low point tallies both times. He was replacing a crap, CRAP squad of players.

How was it a crap squad? It was a good side for championship standard he took over. It lacked a bit of depth and quality, but it certainly wasnt as bad as everyone makes it out to be.

LuckyLloyd

Chucky the tree wrote: »

How was it a crap squad? It was a good side for championship standard he took over. It lacked a bit of depth and quality, but it certainly wasnt as bad as everyone makes it out to be.

Yeah, that they had lost their first six consecutive league games was a big shock as they had begun the season as one of the favorites to go up. Still though, he ended up winning the league with them despite literally spotting the league six games. That's impressive no matter how good your starting squad is relative to the opposition (see Leeds in League One last year).

UnitedIrishman

Must say it's funny when people call him a failure after bringing Sunderland from the bottom of the Championship into the Premiership in his first season, consolidates Sunderland's place the following year, and despite having a bad start this year - are only a few points from the top half of the table.

I think he walked because it was becoming a circus there. Every day there was at least a page in every paper dedicated to 'Will Keane Go' or 'Whats Gone Wrong at Sunderland' when the reality is that there's very little wrong. Only four teams from 15 have survived in the Premiership the first season up and thats including Sunderland. 80m spent? Who cares, the fact he kept them up means they'll have made plenty back.

premierstone

Boggles wrote: »

Was he still commuting from Manchester?, Blackburn job would suit him down to the ground if he was.

Blackburn already have a manager that wasnt ready for the premiership, when they do eventually get rid of him why on earth would they want to replace him with another one???

Chucky the tree

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Yeah, that they had lost their first six consecutive league games was a big shock as they had begun the season as one of the favorites to go up. Still though, he ended up winning the league with them despite literally spotting the league six games. That's impressive no matter how good your starting squad is relative to the opposition (see Leeds in League One last year).

It's not bad alright, but when you have alot of money to spend it's not the brilliant achievement everyone makes it out to be. dont get me wrong, I am not knocking it but alot of people seem to go on as if it's the best footballing achievement ever. And thats because it's Roy Keane. If it was Mick McCarthy everyone would scoff at it and criticse him for having only won it on the last day.

tred

Warper wrote: »

How can people compare Moyes to Roy Keane

Moyes is a much better manager than Keane - he got Everton to 4th couple of years ago - the only team to knock the top 4 off their perch, finished 5th a couple of times, 1/4 final of UEFA cup and has spent less in 10 years in the transfer market than Keane has in 18 months.

Keane getting Sunderland promoted was a great job but that was a once-off achievement - it was his first job in management and the players rose to him because of his great playing days. Now a year later he is dead-wood, i mean look at his signings - Chopra, Yorke, Cole, Kavanagh etc etc etc, all players that would be lucky to get a game in the Championship. If he didnt walk he was getting the sack.

It seems the best managers in the Premiership are the ones that were crap at soccer - wenger,ferguson, scolari, benitez

But to say Keane is a better manager than Moyes - get a life

i concur. keane hasnt the right to lick moyes boots as a manager. They way keane was talking at press conferences of late would demorilise the best of teams. ITs good for sunderland, they need a fresh start. Curbishley or Alardyce i suppose..

JimiTime

premierstone wrote: »

Blackburn already have a manager that wasnt ready for the premiership, when they do eventually get rid of him why on earth would they want to replace him with another one???

Aww bless. If u were furry and didn't sh!t so much, I'd take u home:rolleyes::

JimiTime

Chucky the tree wrote: »

It's not bad alright, but when you have alot of money to spend it's not the brilliant achievement everyone makes it out to be. dont get me wrong, I am not knocking it but alot of people seem to go on as if it's the best footballing achievement ever. And thats because it's Roy Keane. If it was Mick McCarthy everyone would scoff at it and criticse him for having only won it on the last day.

The Ironic thing about that post, is that what you are saying about Mick McCarthy you are doing to Keane. Forget about taking sides. Keanes Record is good, simple as that. I was delighted to see Mick do well, and still am. See, its not one or the other. Just a point of note though, 'any' manager who in their 1st season as a manager achieves such a feat, is worthy of a little praise IMO.

Daysha

24th Championship -> 4 points off top 10 in Premiership in 2 years.

Yeah, epic fail :rolleyes:

Chucky the tree

JimiTime wrote: »

The Ironic thing about that post, is that what you are saying about Mick McCarthy you are doing to Keane. Forget about taking sides. Keanes Record is good, simple as that. I was delighted to see Mick do well, and still am. See, its not one or the other. Just a point of note though, 'any' manager who in their 1st season as a manager achieves such a feat, is worthy of a little praise IMO.

I'll praise for winning the champonship, but I wont praise for spunking £80million on **** players and paying over the odds. I wont praise for keeping Sunderland in the premiership in his first season because I think that should be expected when you look at the money he had at his disposal.

I also wont praise for doing a good job this season, because if he was he wouldnt of resigned would he? If you asked Keane how do you think he/his team have done this season what answer would you expect him to give?


My point about Mick McCarthy was people are far to eager to lavish compliments/huge praise when he doesnt deserve so much.

JimiTime

Chucky the tree wrote: »

I'll praise for winning the champonship, but I wont praise for spunking £80million on **** players and paying over the odds. I wont praise for keeping Sunderland in the premiership in his first season because I think that should be expected when you look at the money he had at his disposal.

I also wont praise for doing a good job this season, because if he was he wouldnt of resigned would he? If you asked Keane how do you think he/his team have done this season what answer would you expect him to give?


My point about Mick McCarthy was people are far to eager to lavish compliments/huge praise when he doesnt deserve so much.

I'm not going to pick apart your arguement, but what I'll say is this. In his time as a manager, Keane has done 'well'. Not amazing, not Sh!t but 'well'. If had been another man at the healm there wouldn't be all this BS. People who don't like him are latching on to this 'money spunking on crap players' because its all they have, due to the fact his record is good! Take who is at the bottom of the championship now. Now take 80 million and build a whole new squad, its hardly giving someone 80 million and a few class players. He pretty much had nothing! Under the circumstances, he did 'well'. Its as simple as that.

PHB

Got them promoted. Kept them up. Has put together a pretty good squad, with a fairly impressively mid table first 11. It was taking time, but I still think they're safe this year with the quality they have. He did a good job. He didn't do anything amazing, but he was solid and did well. Spent lots and got an expected outcome.

Xavi6

Genuine question - does anyone think that Keane looked at this week's fixture and thought "Ah bollox, we're gonna get hockeyed in that one" and jumped sooner cause of it? I can't imagine he would have wanted a mauling at the hands of United to be his last game.

Pighead

Xavi6 wrote: »

Genuine question - does anyone think that Keane looked at this week's fixture and thought "Ah bollox, we're gonna get hockeyed in that one" and jumped sooner cause of it? I can't imagine he would have wanted a mauling at the hands of United to be his last game.

There's also the 100 games in charge thing where his record is W42 L41 D17. Maybe he wanted to leave while he still had more wins than losses! In future years when his grandkids ask him how he done at Sunderland he can hold his head up high and say "Ah sure I won more than I lost"

Then his grandkids will say "Now tell us about the glorious 7 European Cups and 7 leagues in a row with Man Utd years, Grandad"

_blank_

Xavi6 wrote: »

Genuine question - does anyone think that Keane looked at this week's fixture and thought "Ah bollox, we're gonna get hockeyed in that one" and jumped sooner cause of it? I can't imagine he would have wanted a mauling at the hands of United to be his last game.

er, a mauling at the hands of Bolton is worse, imo.

Xavi6

Pighead wrote: »

There's also the 100 games in charge thing where his record is W42 L41 D17. Maybe he wanted to leave while he still had more wins than losses!

Heh possibly true

Des wrote: »

er, a mauling at the hands of Bolton is worse, imo.

In your opinion yes but in Keane's?

herbieflowers

pfft, probably got pissed off with the training facilities and decided to sling his hook

it doesn't surprise me, though I do think he was a bit rash. He could have turned it around, they still have (at least on paper) the guts of a decent side there.

And he did get them into the PL, established them somewhat last season. Why wouldn't he want to proceed with Sunderland's amibtion to move onto the "next level"?

Chucky the tree

JimiTime wrote: »

I'm not going to pick apart your arguement, but what I'll say is this. In his time as a manager, Keane has done 'well'. Not amazing, not Sh!t but 'well'. If had been another man at the healm there wouldn't be all this BS. People who don't like him are latching on to this 'money spunking on crap players' because its all they have, due to the fact his record is good! Take who is at the bottom of the championship now. Now take 80 million and build a whole new squad, its hardly giving someone 80 million and a few class players. He pretty much had nothing! Under the circumstances, he did 'well'. Its as simple as that.

Whole new squad? Sunderland were one of the pre-season favourites to be promoted that year, they had a good squad.

Kenny cunningham, Stanislav Varga, Steven Caldwell, Stephen Wright, Graham kavangh, Grant leadbitter, Dean Whitehead, Liam Lawrence, Rory Delap, Nyron Nosworthy, Stephen elliot, Darly Murphy, Jon Stead.