match thread liverpool v west ham

kingshankly

Tusky wrote: »

Benitez is a great manager and I wouldn't want anyone else at the club. He doesn't deserve half the stick he gets BUT he does make some absolutely bizarre decisions. It was the 79th minute when he finally brought Babel on. Why not earlier when we were clearly dying out for a bit of pace and trickery ? It seems to me that Torres, Kuyt, Keane, N'Gog, Benayoun & Riera are all ahead of him in the pecking order...which is madness.

Fulham and West Ham at home...two 0-0 draws. I have a feeling we will be looking back at these results at the end of the season with much regret.

Only real positive was Dossena. Didnt have a lot to do defensively but looked a lot more comfortable then in previous games. Hopefully his confidence will take a boost.

agree why benitez wont comit more men forward is baffling same thing every time with substitutions 64 minutes and 78 for babel would love for once for him to throw 3 up front that game tonight was crying out for crouch we miss a target man for plan b

Handsome Bob

ntlbell wrote: »

That's the truest thing said on this thread

And we all know how many times we are going to agree over the season.;):p

joe123

ah same old liverpool....:cool:

when liverpool bring on a sub we have ngog, when united bring on a sub they have tevez. Kind of sums it up.

colly10

Raskolnikov wrote: »

Of course, I meant Benitez.

Only takin the piss
Pennant is fairly poor anyway, wouldn't have made much of a difference in this match

Maybe should have gave Babel a start up front

Pyjamarama

event wrote: »

was coming in to say that

regardless of how they played, to boo a team that has gone clear at the top of the prem is disgraceful and anyone that tries to justify it is a fool

disgraceful, thats what it is

Regardless of going top that performance was poor. The people in the kop have paid good money and are entitled to expect a better performance. When the dust settles and they have time to think they will no doubt just be thrilled to be top.

Would you really expect them to be cheering that performance?

LuckyLloyd

Ah well. Raised the tempo the last twenty minutes and Yossi (great save), Sammi, Dirk and Babel all went close in the second half. Fair play to West Ham for staying robust and error free.

Better finishing in the past two games and we are an extra four points clear at the top. Something to note:

- 34 points as of December 01 2008 and 15 premiership games;
- 30 points as of December 08 2007 and 15 premiership games;

Handsome Bob

~Rebel~ wrote: »

FFS give the lad a chance before you write him off! he's not even played 90 competitive minutes combined from all his cameo's yet!

He played a lot pre-season. He has been a sub coming on more than a few times. He played a significant amount of the game against Aston Villa. He's started League Cup games. He did nothing overly impressive in all of them. I'm not criticising him, it's just that he should not be the first player to come on when BABEL is sitting on the bench.

bUILDERtHEbOB

Pyjamarama wrote: »

Regardless of going top that performance was poor. The people in the kop have paid good money and are entitled to expect a better performance. When the dust settles and they have time to think they will no doubt just be thrilled to be top.

Would you really expect them to be cheering that performance?

They make noise when we are lose but don't during the game, and the players have just tried their best for the club for the past 90 minutes and technically should be applauded.

Also paying a lot of money gives no one the right to boo. It's your own choice what you spend your money on and if you don't like it well maybe don't go back again but don't boo.

~Rebel~

kingshankly wrote: »

agree why benitez wont comit more men forward is baffling same thing every time with substitutions 64 minutes and 78 for babel would love for once for him to throw 3 up front that game tonight was crying out for crouch we miss a target man for plan b

...He did throw 3 up top, Babel, NGog and Kuyt were all up top by the end (though in reality it was more like 6 forwards).

And he Did throw on our tallest frontman in NGog at 6ft 2 for the last half hour.

But sure lets just ridicule him for not bringing on the player whos not still at the club anyway...

LZ5by5 wrote: »

He played a lot pre-season. He has been a sub coming on more than a few times. He played a significant amount of the game against Aston Villa. He's started League Cup games. He did nothing overly impressive in all of them. I'm not criticising him, it's just that he should not be the first player to come on when BABEL is sitting on the bench.

Yup, he did play in preseason a lot - and he Scored in preseason a lot. and Was very impressive, scoring some tasty goals with both feet.

And to be honest with you im gonna defer to Rafa on this one, that maybe he wanted the taller player up front. For all we know he's been great in training. He certainly has an eye for goal from his previous records (bar 1 bad season as a kid in the senior team).

mike65

I'm glad I went off to watch Spooks :mad:

We are crapola, did Rafa do that to piss off Gillette?

We are in no danger of winning anything, time for some heads to be knocked together.

Mike

colly10

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

- 34 points as of December 01 2008 and 15 premiership games;
- 30 points as of December 08 2007 and 15 premiership games;

We were out of it this time last year on those points iirc, we have our chance this season and we should be grabbing it with both hands, hopefully we can pick it up.
It makes me feel sick watching it sometimes, were so much better than that

kingshankly

bUILDERtHEbOB wrote: »

They make noise when we are lose but don't during the game, and the players have just tried their best for the club for the past 90 minutes and technically should be applauded.

Also paying a lot of money gives no one the right to boo. It's your own choice what you spend your money on and if you don't like it well maybe don't go back again but don't boo.

booing was too kind for that performance imo any paying customer has the right to express their fellings as long as its not in a anti racial or anti sexual manner

bUILDERtHEbOB

kingshankly wrote: »

booing was too kind for that performance imo any paying customer has the right to express their fellings as long as its not in a anti racial or anti sexual manner

So much for 'support' then.

Handsome Bob

~Rebel~ wrote: »

Yup, he did play in preseason a lot - and he Scored in preseason a lot. and Was very impressive, scoring some tasty goals with both feet.

I forget who they were against. Who were they against (not being a smart ass, honest question)?

~Rebel~ wrote: »

And to be honest with you im gonna defer to Rafa on this one, that maybe he wanted the taller player up front. For all we know he's been great in training. He certainly has an eye for goal from his previous records (bar 1 bad season as a kid in the senior team).

Anything you've seen from the competitive games he's played (League Cup, Aston Villa, other etc etc) that suggests Rafa was right to bring him on? When Babel came on (pretty tall himself) he came closer with a long range shot than Gerrard did with his impossible shots all match. Babel should have been given those 20 minutes.

~Rebel~

kingshankly wrote: »

booing was too kind for that performance imo any paying customer has the right to express their fellings as long as its not in a anti racial or anti sexual manner

lol anti sexual..."WEAR LESS TIGHT FITTING SHORTS YOU CNUT!"

_blank_

~Rebel~ wrote: »

lol anti sexual..."WEAR LESS TIGHT FITTING SHORTS YOU CNUT!"

lol

spockety

Top of the league, and we still have DIRK.

It's all good!

kingshankly

~Rebel~ wrote: »

...He did throw 3 up top, Babel, NGog and Kuyt were all up top by the end (though in reality it was more like 6 forwards).

And he Did throw on our tallest frontman in NGog at 6ft 2 for the last half hour.

But sure lets just ridicule him for not bringing on the player whos not still at the club anyway...


Yup, he did play in preseason a lot - and he Scored in preseason a lot. and Was very impressive, scoring some tasty goals with both feet.

And to be honest with you im gonna defer to Rafa on this one, that maybe he wanted the taller player up front. For all we know he's been great in training. He certainly has an eye for goal from his previous records (bar 1 bad season as a kid in the senior team).

babbel was brought on the left wing for riera and i wasnt ridiculing rafa just pointing out the fact we miss a target man which is why he will definately go for heskey in january

careca

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Ah well. Raised the tempo the last twenty minutes and Yossi (great save), Sammi, Dirk and Babel all went close in the second half. Fair play to West Ham for staying robust and error free.

I think thats half the problem Lloyd, we should be pushing the tempo from the first minutes. Its always the same we go a goal behind and push the tempo or are drawing 0-0 and push the tempo at the end. Get at them ffs.


I've just had a long cold ten minute walk from the pub to cool down, but man was i steaming after that. We could well have nicked it but we still didn't play well at all. Too many passes for the sake of it, Alonso still won't go into the opposition box (although he is top class at what he does no doubt), wingers who can't go by a player, a striker who cannot control a ball (Ngog - and I accept he is inexperienced and young but he has to do better or good luck).

Someone said it in the pub and I agree with them, if this match was 3.00 on Sat we would have won but anytime over the last few years when we have a chance to make a statement of intent we don't. I can recall about ten times when we had the chance to close the gap over the last few seasons when others slipped up and we never seem to take it.

Also, apart from the west brom match, can anyone name another PL game this season we have the match wrapped up by half time? If Utd score early I ask myself will they get 3/4/5. If the pool do the same I hope we hang on.

now that rant is over, I would have taken top of the league after 15 games before the season started but I just feel we have let slip a golden opportunity to build a lead, cos we will have tougher times ahead, no doubt.

Anyway, its amazing how a good rant can clear the head.

~Rebel~

LZ5by5 wrote: »

I forget who they were against. Who were they against (not being a smart ass, honest question)?

Poor teams. which is why i didn't bring it up, instead saying that he deserves to be given a chance. You responded by saying he wasn't impressive in preseason, i was merely correcting you, since he was.

Anything you've seen from the competitive games he's played (League Cup, Aston Villa, other etc etc) that suggests Rafa was right to bring him on? When Babel came on (pretty tall himself) he came closer with a long range shot than Gerrard did with his impossible shots all match. Babel should have been given those 20 minutes.

They're very different players with very different attributes. Physically fairly similar, and both very fast, but Babel is most effective driving towards goal from outside the box. NGog is more effective as an out and out striker (which he absolutely is), within the box.

Rafa was obviously of the opinion that a more in the box player was required, rightly or wrongly, i would imagine that was his rational. And tbh, i dont think NGog did anything wrong, though he worked well In the box, won a few headers, showed decent feet, worked well involving his support.

Keith186

Babel is far more dangerous from what I've seen of both players, to me & most other people watching the game he was the natural choice to bring on but Rafa has to do his thing as usual.

careca

Sorry one other point. I was also calling for Babel to come on but his tracking back when he threw the lineball to Alonso (who lost it) after about 87 mins was baffling for a player wanting to prove he should be there.

spockety

No harm bringing N'Gog on at all, but Rafa should have done a double and brought Babel on at the same time on 60 minutes. Would have been a good statement. In fact, he probably should have taken off a defender and gone three across the back for the last 20. West Ham were woeful and really should have been put to the sword.

joe123

bUILDERtHEbOB wrote: »

They make noise when we are lose but don't during the game, and the players have just tried their best for the club for the past 90 minutes and technically should be applauded.

Also paying a lot of money gives no one the right to boo. It's your own choice what you spend your money on and if you don't like it well maybe don't go back again but don't boo.

youve to remember there getting paid a hell of a lot of money aswell. Its the fans right to want the best for the club. We are top which is great but we have been nothing special at all this season...maybe thats a gud thing where we will still come into form but so far its not good enough.

~Rebel~

Keith186 wrote: »

Babel is far more dangerous from what I've seen of both players, to me & most other people watching the game he was the natural choice to bring on but Rafa has to do his thing as usual.

I tbh would also have brought on Babel, but i hate this bleating that goes on after a game where everyone jumps on a decision and makes out like it was stupid. Rafa obviously had a reason for his decision so lets just look at it rationally. It might have turned out differently if the decisions were made in reverse, but it also might not.

Look at it this way, Babel looked dangerous when he came on - but only from outside the box, driving in on teh counter from West Hams few chances towards the end. When we were actually putting balls in, and playing a pressure play style he wasn't doing much. Rafa, I would have imagined would have wanted the team to be doing more of the latter, rather then trying to recover from defending attacks in the last few minutes, so it would make a certain amount of sense to bring on a guy who's better in the box then he is outside it.

spockety

In terms of the booing, it only lasted about 5 seconds ("whoopsee, what are we doing?"), and I'd say was just a lashing out in frustration. When a substitution is made and you see the player being taken off reacting by shaking his head etc., people say "well at least it shows he cares, would you prefer if he didn't give a cr@p?". Same with the crowd, they were singing right until 89 minutes even though the players were giving them bugger all. Despite some very frustrating moments you never heard the crowd get on their backs while the match was still on. The short boo chorus at the end was a fair reflection of fans feelings.

There are some poeple on here saying that Liverpool should have gone out taken advantage of everyone elses slip ups by going 3 points clear at the top, yet criticise the fans on the Kop who vented when what should have happened didn't.

bUILDERtHEbOB

joe123 wrote: »

youve to remember there getting paid a hell of a lot of money aswell. Its the fans right to want the best for the club. We are top which is great but we have been nothing special at all this season...maybe thats a gud thing where we will still come into form but so far its not good enough.

So booing and potentially ruining the confidence of some of the players and manager means you want what's best?

kingshankly

fair play to you rebel able to speake rationally after that takes me a while to mellow well room is now full of steam ranting over
top of the league not a bad complaint(what might have been)

Rockee

Theres usually some post match words from Rafa up on the official website at this stage. I wonder what we'll get?

_blank_

no fan should boo their team while at a match.

end of.

leave the criticism for the message boards or newspapers letter page.

spockety

Rockee wrote: »

Theres usually some post match words from Rafa up on the official website at this stage. I wonder what we'll get?

This....

Rafa wrote:

Rafa Benitez claimed his team deserved more than a point after Anfield endured its third goalless draw of the season.
The result moved Liverpool one point clear of Chelsea at the top of the Barclays Premier League - but it could be more.

The Reds had 20 shots during a decent display but, with Robert Green excellent in goal, Gianfranco Zola's men held firm to follow Stoke and Fulham in leaving Anfield with a share of the spoils.

Benitez said: "We clearly deserved to win. From the beginning to the end we tried to win and that's why they had one or two counter attacks in the second half.

"The team played much better than before and some players did too.

"People can be disappointed and we are too, but we are one point clear at the top.

"We didn't play well against Fulham but in this game we had plenty of possession, passed and moved the ball, and had chances.

"If you play badly, don't have chances and the other team is in control, you can be worried - but we were much better.

"The crowd can be disappointed because they've seen a draw at home but if they see the newspapers tomorrow they will see we are top.

"We have one more point than Chelsea now and if we can go to Blackburn and win we'll still be top."

Asked if his team was lacking confidence in front of goal, Benitez said: "Maybe some players are but it's just a case of us trying to keep creating chances - then I'm sure we'll start taking them."

Benitez was also quizzed on whether he would look to bring in another striker in January - possibly Michael Owen.

He responded: "Clearly I can guarantee that we are not going for Michael Owen."

Pyjamarama

bUILDERtHEbOB wrote: »

So booing and potentially ruining the confidence of some of the players and manager means you want what's best?

These are professional footballers. The should respond by going out and winning convincingly, they won't be boo'ed then.

Lets not forget these terrible fans are the same ones who were there in Istanbul... terrible fans...

Handsome Bob

~Rebel~ wrote: »

Poor teams. which is why i didn't bring it up, instead saying that he deserves to be given a chance. You responded by saying he wasn't impressive in preseason, i was merely correcting you, since he was.

I brought up in the bigger picture; he scored a few goals pre-season against poor teams and he hasn't done anything to add to that. He has started games in the League Cup and played a significant game against AV in terms of time on pitch. Again, I'm not saying he doesn't deserve a chance, it's just ludicrous that he his ahead of Babel in the pecking order.

~Rebel~ wrote: »

They're very different players with very different attributes. Physically fairly similar, and both very fast, but Babel is most effective driving towards goal from outside the box. NGog is more effective as an out and out striker (which he absolutely is), within the box.

Match winners. No matter how you look at it, looking at that bench, Babel would be the primary potential match winner. Rafa should have fine tuned his tactics in accordance.

~Rebel~ wrote: »

Rafa was obviously of the opinion that a more in the box player was required, rightly or wrongly, i would imagine that was his rational. And tbh, i dont think NGog did anything wrong, though he worked well In the box, won a few headers, showed decent feet, worked well involving his support.

He was getting the ball in impossible situations; I'll give him that.

spockety

Des wrote: »

no fan should boo their team while at a match.

end of.

leave the criticism for the message boards or newspapers letter page.

Well Rafa has taken it pragmatically, that's good enough for me:

""The crowd can be disappointed because they've seen a draw at home but if they see the newspapers tomorrow they will see we are top."

He knows it was just temporary venting. There was no real venom in the boos. No "you don't know what you're doing get out of our club" etc. It was booing out of serious disappointment, not serious anger.

~Rebel~

Des wrote: »

no fan should boo their team while at a match.

end of.

leave the criticism for the message boards or newspapers letter page.

and the phone ins, dont forget the phone ins!

caller; "No, No, I want him out, Ra-fa out! Ra-fa out!"
host; "...but your top of the league..."
caller; "No, no, thats not good enough!"

Rockee

Well, there you go, Liverpool wont be making a swoop for Michael Owen. Cue the 'Heskey' whispers!

The Recliner

Des wrote: »

no fan should boo their team while at a match.

end of.

leave the criticism for the message boards or newspapers letter page.

There are a lot of opinions I disagree with on this soccer board

This isn't one of them

wholeheartedly agree 100%

event

Pyjamarama wrote: »

Regardless of going top that performance was poor. The people in the kop have paid good money and are entitled to expect a better performance. When the dust settles and they have time to think they will no doubt just be thrilled to be top.

Would you really expect them to be cheering that performance?

no, but just cos you dont cheer, doesnt mean you have to boo

kingshankly wrote: »

booing was too kind for that performance imo any paying customer has the right to express their fellings as long as its not in a anti racial or anti sexual manner

i see this so many times and its wrong.
what would be the outcome if people booed at Gaa matches?
you are paying into those games
how about if you work in a shop and make a mistake, has the customer a right to boo you?
its not as if there was no effort from liverpool, they tried to win, they just couldnt. It happens sometimes in a season, and it'll happen again too.
booing cos a team just werent good enough? disgraceful, i have seen a lot worse in my time as a fan of my club and would never boo. its a childish think to do and strikes me as a mob mentality thing

Pyjamarama

event wrote: »

no, but just cos you dont cheer, doesnt mean you have to boo



i see this so many times and its wrong.
what would be the outcome if people booed at Gaa matches?
you are paying into those games
how about if you work in a shop and make a mistake, has the customer a right to boo you?
its not as if there was no effort from liverpool, they tried to win, they just couldnt. It happens sometimes in a season, and it'll happen again too.
booing cos a team just werent good enough? disgraceful, i have seen a lot worse in my time as a fan of my club and would never boo. its a childish think to do and strikes me as a mob mentality thing

I'm not saying I agree with it but it's not as big an issue as being made out here. There are idiots out there who will be calling for rafa's head or something stupid like that, same as there has been countless times with Fergie and United and recently with Wenger and Arsenal. Some football fans are idiots some aren't, same as some posters on here are idiots and some aren't...

At the end of the day it was a poor performance and the crowd were just letting the players know. No doubt all those fans will still be there next home game cheering the lads on.

Mr Alan

anybody who booed tonight in that ground is ****ing disgrace to be honest.

a draw at home against West Ham? to go top of the league? dominated for 90 mins? leads to boos?

some right ****ing ***** in our support.

mike65

Couldn't score in a brothel though, the boos are born of the frustation of being cluless where it matters.

Mike

prendy

booing was bad but so was the performance.

we had enough possession to win 3 matches. we had no cutting edge.

im gonna stay possitive however, Hyypia take a bow, my man of the match. for 70 mins he was immense. comfortable at the back and our only threat from set pieces.

Dossena was miles better tonight, all four at the back were solid.

if at the start of the season someone said you'd be top of the league i December id have bitten their hand off.

WERE TOP OF THE LEAGUE.

Xavi6

Xavi6 wrote: »

0-0 please. In the interest of Fantasy Football.

Cheers boys!

Aquos76

So who would like to defend Stevie G here

_blank_

worst dive ever

Jazzy

top o' the league boys! top o' the league......


yeah that gerrard thing was hilarious. me and my mates were in stiches

Het-Field

10 Seasons since West Ham last got a point at Anfield.


As a die hard Hammers fan, all i can say is yeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeesss

James Collins, Matty Upson, Robert Green and Craig Bellamy are heroes

Im Forever Blowing Bubbles

Pretty Bubbles in the air

United United !!!

Dave!

Aquos76 wrote: »

So who would like to defend Stevie G here

ROFL

Did that happen tonight?!?! :eek: I must have missed that

wtf is he doing?!

~Rebel~

Dave! wrote: »

ROFL

Did that happen tonight?!?! :eek: I must have missed that

wtf is he doing?!

see, he was lulling them into a false sense of security, so if he got a chance later they'd give him that extra yard of space.

'Atta boy Stevie!

OPENROAD

Aquos76 wrote: »

So who would like to defend Stevie G here

Penalty!!!!!!!