Buyer Remorse - Advice Needed

OutlawPete

Hi,

Sold a car (year 2001) last week for 5k and a promise of a full service from my mechanic and the buyer phones next day complaining of a split or crack somewhere on the outside of the roof beside one of the rear doors. They told me it wasn't leaking as inside not damp but that it would fail it's next NCT (May 2009) as it was a "major problem".

They were quite hostile but I remained calm and told them I wasn't aware of it and that the mechanic that they had look at the car, with a fine tooth comb, didn't seem to notice this split / crack either.

He did however tell all of us that the car had a rear side impact that was repaired very well some years back. I own car since Feb this year so was news to me also. He told them that in his opinion it was not a problem and to not be put off buying the car over this.

He also ran a diagnostic check and found no faults. I told him that the car had given quite a few fault error codes since buying but my own mechanic was having trouble pinpointing why the error codes were coming up.

I no little about this area but think the engine was running rich or something and throwing everything out of whack and he replaced the 'air flow meter' twice over this. The car however never ran bad, always was a sweet drive but maybe burned juice a little too much - but been a 1.6 Auto I guess that's to be expected.

I actually thought the car had a fuel leak during the summer despite the guy telling me that Auto's are hard on juice. Anyway, I was convinced I could smell fumes from the fuel tank when the boot was opened and so he replaced some pipe there for me to keep me happy.

In the end it turned out that when I first bought the car and had it Valeted in St Stpehen's Green car park the guys must have sprayed a ton of chemical crap into the rear seats and doors as it was only when I got in the back seat and got real close to the upholstry that I could smell that fume bigtime.

I am explaining this as I also told this to their mechanic rather than hide anything. I told him also of when someone broke the rear window of the car to grab Sat Nav and that if he looked real close down the door panels there was loads of glass that would need removing.

So back then to them contacting me about this split / crack. The girl who bought it said her dad was going crazy and feeling bad for her so I told her that, if she wanted, instead of the service that was promised, I would give her €250 instead of the promised service.

So that's what I did. I met her in town and gave it to her. She bought the car with a friend and told me that her dad was going crazy and later on feeling bad with being close to xmas and all I texted that I would still pay for a service also as want them to be happy with car.

Maybe this was foolish - don't know, but that's what I did.

I haven't heard anything back from them but get the feeling that I will. Guess my question is; what are my rights here? what if they keep coming back to me with further problems?

I mean it's a seven year old car and it's bound to have some probs, do I have to pay for any repairs for three months after the sale or anything?

I ask that as someone told me unless I made them sign a 'sold as seen' trade form then I am responsible for any repair costs for three months.

Sorry for the long post - but wanted advice based on all the facts.

Appreciate any advice as to be honest it has stressed me out no end.

Thanks,

Nico

mikemac

Might be obvious to everyone but me

Just so we're sure are you an independant dealer?
It's just most threads like this are from ordinary people who sell privately.

OutlawPete

micmclo wrote: »

Might be obvious to everyone but me

Just so we're sure are you an independant dealer?
It's just most threads like this are from ordinary people who sell privately.

No, I'm a private seller. This was the first car I have ever sold. Was the first car I have ever bought also.

Nico

mumhaabu

Two words: Caveat emptor.

amcalester

Caveat emptor - Let the buyer beware.

AFAIK in a private sale the seller is not responsible once the car is sold provided you did nothing to conceal the damage to the car.

If the buyer didnt notice and the mechanic (a paid expert) didnt notice then thats not your fault. Its just bad luck.

The €250 and the service seems more than fair. Id be more pissed off with the mechanic for not noticing it.

Edit:

Didnt see mumhaabus comment

mickdw

So you are a private person selling a car. Give her nothing. You are too nice for your own good. You were more than honest already. Honest to the point of putting them off nearly Id say. Anyway, next time they ring, tell them F Off. Even if bought from a garage, they would only get 3 months engine & gearbox guarantee so they still would have no comeback over these silly faults.

Berty

The car is her respsonsibilty. Dont lose sleep over it.

be helpful but give them nothing more. You are not offering a warranty of after sales service so buyer beware.

OutlawPete

mickdw wrote: »

So you are a private person selling a car. Give her nothing. You are too nice for your own good. You were more than honest already. Honest to the point of putting them off nearly Id say. Anyway, next time they ring, tell them F Off. Even if bought from a garage, they would only get 3 months engine & gearbox guarantee so they still would have no comeback over these silly faults.

I guess what I was scared of is them going to a top body shop, like say EP Mooney's or something, and then getting a solicitor to say it'll cost thousands for a new roof.

Or that engine running rich and throwing off sensors and stuff was still an outstanding issue and I should pay.

Had a friend who bought an Audi and Brady's charged him €300 for a diagnostic of an engine management light and told him then it would cost €2,500 to replace a Lambaddor sensor or something along with whole bunch of other stuff to rectify 17 fault codes.

He couldn't afford it and so got an independent mechanic to see if he could fix the issue and it turned out to be sensors that needed cleaning and one sensor replaced? Cost him €450 or something.

My worry also was they'd go to main dealer and come back with a whole list of stuff that the engine could do with and send that bill also saying the engine needs that too.

I am a decent guy but it's the stress of dealing with it. Health's not good and so guess the fear of an ongoing issue making it worse has me fearing the worst.

Nico

Berty

Buyers and sellers also have responsibilities:

* Buyer's responsibilities: Buyers have a responsibility to protect themselves by checking the relevant facts before entering any contract. As long as you ask the right questions, note the answers or get them in writing, and know your rights, you should have the tools at your disposal to challenge a seller if things go wrong
* Seller's responsibilities: Remember that it is an offence under both road traffic legislation and the Sale of Goods & Supply of Services Act to sell a car to a consumer which is not roadworthy

Source : National Consumer Agency

http://www.consumerconnect.ie/eng/Learning_Zone/Guides_To_Consumer_Law/Buying_a_Car/

Roadworthy = of a motor vehicle) mechanically sound

amcalester

Nico22 wrote: »

I am a decent guy but it's the stress of dealing with it.
Nico

You dont have to deal with it, its not your car. She owns it now and all the headaches that go with it.

OutlawPete

quirke_folder wrote: »

Source : National Consumer Agency

http://www.consumerconnect.ie/eng/Learning_Zone/Guides_To_Consumer_Law/Buying_a_Car/

Roadworthy = of a motor vehicle) mechanically sound

Something like that was said to me on the phone. That the spilt or crack they found made the car unroadworthy as it wouln't pass next NCT.

Nico

quarryman

OP: Toughen up on this one. You owe them nothing. That €250 is money wasted at this stage. You shouldn't be paying for a service either.

If the buyer rings again then politely explain that you were completely honest about everything and the "crack" was news to you. Leave it at that.

I ask that as someone told me unless I made them sign a 'sold as seen' trade form then I am responsible for any repair costs for three months

.

where did you hear this?

Berty

Nico22 wrote: »

Something like that was said to me on the phone. That the spilt or crack they found made the car unroadworthy as it wouln't pass next NCT.

Nico

Where is the crack again? It does not sound unroadworthy to me.

ninty9er

Nico22 wrote: »

Something like that was said to me on the phone. That the spilt or crack they found made the car unroadworthy as it wouln't pass next NCT.

Nico

Bullsh1t, the buyer has just decided they've found another car they want and want you to take the car back to avoid hassle.

You owe her nothing, not even the service really.

OutlawPete

quarryman wrote: »

OP: Toughen up on this one. You owe them nothing. That €250 is money wasted at this stage. You shouldn't be paying for a service either.

If the buyer rings again then politely explain that you were completely honest about everything and the "crack" was news to you. Leave it at that.

.

where did you hear this?

One of my mates said it last night to me that there was some form you get that makes it a 'trade sale' by a private person. They were drinking at the time though

Nico

maidhc

quirke_folder wrote: »

Roadworthy = of a motor vehicle) mechanically sound

Oh no!

In a secondhand car "roadworthy" means "not inherently dagnerous".

OutlawPete

quirke_folder wrote: »

Where is the crack again? It does not sound unroadworthy to me.

They said it was a hairline crack / split running about the size of a hand near one of the rear doors.

Nico

quarryman

Nico22 wrote: »

One of my mates said it last night to me that there was some form you get that makes it a 'trade sale' by a private person. They were drinking at the time though

Nico

ah pub talk.

Look the car is sold. If they threaten legal action that get some advice off your solicitor but until then forget about it.

mvpr

Did you say they got a mechanic to look at the car on their behalf? If they have any legal comeback it will be to that mechanic, not you. A private seller sells as the car is seen - caveat emptor.

amcalester

Buyers and sellers also have responsibilities:

• Buyer's responsibilities: Buyers have a responsibility to protect themselves by checking the relevant facts before entering any contract. As long as you ask the right questions, note the answers or get them in writing, and know your rights, you should have the tools at your disposal to challenge a seller if things go wrong
• Seller's responsibilities: Remember that it is an offence under both road traffic legislation and the Sale of Goods & Supply of Services Act to sell a car to a consumer which is not roadworthy

Sale of Goods Act

The Sale of Goods & Supply of Services Act also requires that any car sold by a dealer - whether new or used - should be:

• Of merchantable quality (this means a reasonable, acceptable quality given what was said about it and taking into account the age and history of the vehicle)
• Fit for the purpose it is intended to be used for
• As described

Just lifted that from the website and the sale of goods act seems to apply to dealers which you aren't.

As for not passing the NCT not sure about that, would find it very very unlikely that you are responsible because you acted honestly, they checked the car and had it checked by a mechanic.

Even if you buy a car from a dealer normally you get a 3 month guaratee on major parts and labour i.e engine and gearbox after that you're on your own

mickdw

Nico22 wrote: »

Something like that was said to me on the phone. That the spilt or crack they found made the car unroadworthy as it wouln't pass next NCT.

Nico

Its seems like they are attempting to take advantage of your good nature. Dont take any of this crap. They looked at the car. Had a very detailed professional inspection carried out prior to purchase. They agreed a price based on inspected condition and advice of professional. You answered all questions asked truthfully and offered additional info of your own accord.

They should be thankful that they got such a 'straight up' seller and move on. They seem to want a new car for 5k. Tell them its a 7year old car and stop bothering you

OutlawPete

mvpr wrote: »

Did you say they got a mechanic to look at the car on their behalf? If they have any legal comeback it will be to that mechanic, not you. A private seller sells as the car is seen - caveat emptor.

Yeah, he spent about an 40 mins checking it, the engine and 10 min drive. Told him about all the error codes confusing my mechanic and having a air flow metre replaced to see if that was the issue. He seemed to acknoweldege that 'yeah, sometimes codes keep coming up and can be hard to pinpoint source of the real problem'.

I did say to the girl to that it is a seven year old car and your bound to get problems from time to time. Their mechanic also said something similar to them and told them it needed a service, an oil change, brake pad etc. That's why I offered a service covering those items mentioned.

Nico

OutlawPete

mickdw wrote: »

Its seems like they are attempting to take advantage of your good nature. Dont take any of this crap. They looked at the car. Had a very detailed professional inspection carried out prior to purchase. They agreed a price based on inspected condition and advice of professional. You answered all questions asked truthfully and offered additional info of your own accord.

They should be thankful that they got such a 'straight up' seller and move on. They seem to want a new car for 5k. Tell them its a 7year old car and stop bothering you

Was thinking that too and actually told the girl when giving her the money that maybe they should get it repaired and serviced and sell it. Then buy a car with a warranty for peice of mind as a seven year old car will have probs no matter how well looked after.

Thanks everyone for your input - appreciate it. I will post back if the issue develops further.

Nico

L-M

There's a reason why people pay extra money and buy of a dealer, for such cases.

They have no come back, simple as. A common phrase known as Though sh1t Paddy.

Move on, and don't be encouraging them to come back. Delete their number, i know it's nice to be nice, but christmas is coming for you too. They bought it, leave them worry about it.

quarryman

Limerick-man wrote: »

Move on, and don't be encouraging them to come back. Delete their number,

fyi, even if you delete someone's number they will still be able to ring you.

-Chris-

I agree with everyone else - walk away, never think of it again.

If anyone's at fault, it's the inspector that she paid to look at your car. They're the only motor industry professional involved in the transaction.

Also, if I were you, call them and tell them that you've reconsidered - that you've paid the €250, but they won't be getting the service (or anything else) from you.

L-M

quarryman wrote: »

fyi, even if you delete someone's number they will still be able to ring you.

I was hinting more to the side of the OP feeling guilty and texting them like the OP did offering the service as well.

bazz26

These type of people boil my blood, they have no problem buying a car from a private seller alot cheaper than from a dealer but still expect the same level of comeback.

OP you have already gone beyond what was required of you, time to draw a line and let these people know where they stand.