Armageddon Spoilers

Rjd2

Fozzy wrote: »

No they weren't. Look at the numbers from October '07 to April '08: http://www.100megsfree4.com/wiawrestling/pages/wwf/wwfraw.htm

The only really noticeable change is after Wrestlemania

I wouldn't say that "Cena as champ = ratings". I think that Cena just in the main event is ratings. I doubt that he needs to be champ

When Superhunter, buried Orton? What a surprise:)
Il retract the early comment about Orton as champ being a rating disaster though, I was sure their was a thread about him having a few brutal weeks rating wise.:o

gimmick

Not watched the main event yet as some tool on another forum I use posted the result in a thread title, but other than that I really enjoyed that PPV. Admittedly I skipped the Finlay and Henry match and the divas effort.

Thought Hardy Vs Koslov was a great match. One of the better openers in WWE in quite some time. Only problem I had with this match was it was very obvious Koslov would not lose.

Punk Vs Mysterio was predictably very very good. I loved its pace and it was never obvious (to me anyway) who would win it. Loved the finish and felt it has really given a good rub to Punk.

Surprisingly Batista Vs Orton was not rubbish. Thats not to say it was good either, but it could have been far worse.

Jericho Vs Cena was an excellent affair as well. Again, at no stage did I ever feel Cena would lose, but a good match was had.

Odd that Smackdown only had one match on this PPV and ECW had two!

SASR

Surprisingly, that was one of my favourite WWE shows of the year.

Not a single bad match on it, although I wasn't paying much attention to Finlay vs Henry. Even the divas match was worth watching for the commentary.
Punk vs Mysterio was quality.

cwstuff

SASR wrote: »

Surprisingly, that was one of my favourite WWE shows of the year.

Not a single bad match on it, although I wasn't paying much attention to Finlay vs Henry. Even the divas match was worth watching for the commentary.
Punk vs Mysterio was quality.

+1

definitely!! I was debating whether or not to actually bother finding a live stream for it, and stay up and watch it, really really glad I did now,

cant wait for raw tonight!!:)

Vince135792003

I would have liked Jeff Hardy to have won it sooner and at a more notable ppv. In saying that I am delighted for him. He's made alot of mistakes but to me there's no doubt he deserves a run.

slicus ricus

I cannot believe they gave Hardy the strap. I really can't take the guy at all for the following reasons. I find his promos put me to sleep, alot of his work looks sloppy and rushed to me, and his high spots (while well executed) are predictable and at this stage mean nothing.

I also think he looks like an idiot - Aside from his weird looking facial hair, what is up with those ridiculous things he wears on his arms? Also, would it hurt to hit the gym and attempt to look like a wrestler?? At least his brother does that much!

Also, and I will leave it at this note, he is one drugs suspention away from being fired. No way he can be trusted for a long term title run - wouldnt be surprised if he lost the belt before or at the next PPV.

Furious-Red

slicus ricus wrote: »

Also, and I will leave it at this note, he is one drugs suspention away from being fired. No way he can be trusted for a long term title run - wouldnt be surprised if he lost the belt before or at the next PPV.

So was Orton when he got the title last year and he is still in the wwe

Vince135792003

slicus ricus wrote: »

I cannot believe they gave Hardy the strap.

Really? He's been knocking on the door for a year now. It's not that hard to believe.

He's really over, has been in some great matches and as weird as it sounds is a relative fresh face at the top end of the card even if he has been around for years.

Yes, he's a risk but the company unlike the past is not build around 1 champion (Hogan, Austin etc..) so it's not nearly as risky as it once was.

slicus ricus

Furious-Red wrote: »

So was Orton when he got the title last year and he is still in the wwe

I'm pretty sure that Orton was and still is at least 2 suspensions away from being fired. Think he was only suspended for the signature pharmacy scandal. Even at that, he got away without missing tv & PPV time because he allegedly fessed up prior to the list being released - pure cop out on WWEs part, but the way it happened none the less.

I know he was suspended several other times due to behavioural issues (non wellness policy suspensions), which carry no "x amount of stikes and your out" implications.

Red Sleeping Beauty

slicus ricus wrote: »

I cannot believe they gave Hardy the strap. I really can't take the guy at all for the following reasons. I find his promos put me to sleep, alot of his work looks sloppy and rushed to me, and his high spots (while well executed) are predictable and at this stage mean nothing.

I also think he looks like an idiot - Aside from his weird looking facial hair, what is up with those ridiculous things he wears on his arms? Also, would it hurt to hit the gym and attempt to look like a wrestler?? At least his brother does that much!

Also, and I will leave it at this note, he is one drugs suspention away from being fired. No way he can be trusted for a long term title run - wouldnt be surprised if he lost the belt before or at the next PPV.

I think he breathes a sigh of relief to a somewhat stale WWE title picture.

slicus ricus

Vince135792003 wrote: »

Really? He's been knocking on the door for a year now. It's not that hard to believe.

I know he's been knocking on the door but I thought given his mistakes and their tendancy to be poorly timed that WWE would never give him the belt. Plus, as explained above, i'm not a fan of his in-ring work, his promos, or his look.

On one hand, im dissapointed given the fact that I clearly just don't "get" the guy.

On the other hand, i'm not so dissapointed - A lot of people seem to like him and reckon he deserves a shot so fair enough, I wouldn't want to deprive anyone of an opportunity. Personally, I don't see his title run being a sucess - when it comes to carrying PPV main events that don't involve the likes of Edge and HHH, we'll see how he gets on (if WWE let him go that far).

Red Sleeping Beauty

Silicus, would you have said the same thing about Edge a few years ago when he started to get world title shots ?

ShawnRaven

slicus ricus wrote: »

I cannot believe they gave Hardy the strap. I really can't take the guy at all for the following reasons. I find his promos put me to sleep, alot of his work looks sloppy and rushed to me, and his high spots (while well executed) are predictable and at this stage mean nothing.

Same can be said for a lot of HulkaCena's work, but they keep putting the belt on him for some funny reason, wonder why?

I also think he looks like an idiot - Aside from his weird looking facial hair, what is up with those ridiculous things he wears on his arms? Also, would it hurt to hit the gym and attempt to look like a wrestler?? At least his brother does that much!

His brother is plain, boring and has zero charisma, which is why he's jumped with a jobberweight belt while his little brother has the big one. The things he wears on his arms are also flying out the door of the wrestling shop in Stephens Green in recent weeks too. Merchandising sells, and generates dollers for Vince McMahon. And that's always come first to Vince, especially in current financial times.

Also, and I will leave it at this note, he is one drugs suspention away from being fired. No way he can be trusted for a long term title run - wouldnt be surprised if he lost the belt before or at the next PPV.

Hah, Randy Orton anyone? He's on his last as far as I know. What was the long running joke about him always getting suspended every easter? Edge has also been busted on wellness too, and both of them have been pushed to the moon.

And you know as well as i do that that wellness policy is bendable to suit Vince's needs, which is why there has never been any reports of dope testing for either Botchtista or Triple H although i'd love it if CP Munk failed!!

Matt isn't marketable, Jeff is, it's that simple, live with it.

ShawnRaven

slicus ricus wrote: »

I know he's been knocking on the door but I thought given his mistakes and their tendancy to be poorly timed that WWE would never give him the belt. Plus, as explained above, i'm not a fan of his in-ring work, his promos, or his look.

Hah!, you see CM Botch's recent work? Jeff's professional by comparison. Carlito and John Morrison have also had their fair share of sloppiness over the years but nobody's as quick to point those out, are they? Time to remove the blinkers there.

On one hand, im dissapointed given the fact that I clearly just don't "get" the guy.

It's simple, he does what his brother can't do, excites a crowd. Crowds will pay to see Jeff as the champion, while haters will also pay to see him lose. That's a win/win money situation for Vince, what's there not to get?

On the other hand, i'm not so dissapointed - A lot of people seem to like him and reckon he deserves a shot so fair enough, I wouldn't want to deprive anyone of an opportunity. Personally, I don't see his title run being a sucess - when it comes to carrying PPV main events that don't involve the likes of Edge and HHH, we'll see how he gets on (if WWE let him go that far).

I think you're gonna be proved very wrong on that one. His run will be a lot more successful than CM Botch, that's for sure. Jeff has been waaaay better than he was say this time 5 years ago at the end of his last WWE run and his TNA run. You can't say he hasn't improved, he clearly has, it's obvious!

But hey, what would you like? HHH to have the belt back? Yeah, that's a reason to watch Smackdown these days! Edge has had a few runs with it, he doesn't need it back again so soon, who else is to put it on? Taker? So that he can get injured again and have to drop it after a month or two?

Seriously, with all due respect, what would make you happy when it comes to the title on SD?

(and people say i bitch about WWE? Jesus H Christ!)

Handsome Bob

I despair at the more often than not dead atmosphere at these shows these days. It kind of tainted Jeff's win for me.

Bubs101

slicus ricus wrote: »

On one hand, im dissapointed given the fact that I clearly just don't "get" the guy.

On the other hand, i'm not so dissapointed - A lot of people seem to like him and reckon he deserves a shot so fair enough, I wouldn't want to deprive anyone of an opportunity. Personally, I don't see his title run being a sucess - when it comes to carrying PPV main events that don't involve the likes of Edge and HHH, we'll see how he gets on (if WWE let him go that far).

I agree with all of the above sentiments 100%. The one good thing about Jeff as champ is that if they use the angle about who attacked him before the last PPV they can bring in Christian to the main event immediately and then Smackdown will have a very talented range of main eventers and a few must see matches (Kendrick and Ezequile vs. Christian and Tomko anyone?)

ShawnRaven

Bubs101 wrote: »

I agree with all of the above sentiments 100%. The one good thing about Jeff as champ is that if they use the angle about who attacked him before the last PPV they can bring in Christian to the main event immediately

Dear Jesus no! Even WWE can't be that desperate can they?
(even if some people here feel putting a major title on Jeff is the last act of desperate men).

Rjd2

ShawnRaven wrote: »

Same can be said for a lot of HulkaCena's work, but they keep putting the belt on him for some funny reason, wonder why?



His brother is plain, boring and has zero charisma, which is why he's jumped with a jobberweight belt while his little brother has the big one. The things he wears on his arms are also flying out the door of the wrestling shop in Stephens Green in recent weeks too. Merchandising sells, and generates dollers for Vince McMahon. And that's always come first to Vince, especially in current financial times.



Hah, Randy Orton anyone? He's on his last as far as I know. What was the long running joke about him always getting suspended every easter? E

And you know as well as i do that that wellness policy is bendable to suit Vince's needs, which is why there has never been any reports of dope testing for either Botchtista or Triple H although i'd love it if CP Munk failed!!

Matt isn't marketable, Jeff is, it's that simple, live with it.

One strike for Randall I think. I don't see why everyone saying its such a big risk putting the belt on Jeff, he is really really over, I mean nearly Taker and Cena over! :eek: Anyways as Raven said about the two strikes, Vince if he wants can bend wellness all day long, and even if he could not, he can strip Jeff of the title and give it to Hunter or Edge. Sure if had to fire Jeff, he would probably brag about how successful wellness tests have being by firing Jeff. Vince will always find a positive angle out of anything.:o

slicus ricus

ShawnRaven wrote: »

Same can be said for a lot of HulkaCena's work, but they keep putting the belt on him for some funny reason, wonder why?

I'm actually one of the few who's an advocate of Cena being champ but that's another issue.

ShawnRaven wrote: »

His brother is plain, boring and has zero charisma, which is why he's jumped with a jobberweight belt while his little brother has the big one.

His brother is every bit as bad as Jeff is, in my opinion. I reckon he's a bit more solid in the ring but has the charisma of a dead fish! I must say Matt bores the hell out of me. Clearly you got the idea that i was some sort of super Matt fan out of me saying that he's in better shape than Jeff.

ShawnRaven wrote: »

The things he wears on his arms are also flying out the door of the wrestling shop in Stephens Green in recent weeks too.

Wasn't aware they even sold those things, does this mean we're gonna see a load of Jeff Hardy wanabies wearing them around town? I understand that Jeff sells a lot of merch, but if the title reign is a flop, his credibility will decline and WWE probably won't be selling any more Hardy merch than they already are.

ShawnRaven wrote: »

Hah, Randy Orton anyone? He's on his last as far as I know. What was the long running joke about him always getting suspended every easter? Edge has also been busted on wellness too, and both of them have been pushed to the moon.

As pointed out already, both have only been suspended once for wellness violations.

ShawnRaven wrote: »

His run will be a lot more successful than CM Botch, that's for sure.

I hope for his sake that it's more successful, Punk's run was a disaster!

ShawnRaven wrote: »

Jeff has been waaaay better than he was say this time 5 years ago at the end of his last WWE run and his TNA run. You can't say he hasn't improved, he clearly has, it's obvious!

He defo has improved, no doubt about that. For me that's not saying much because at the end of his last WWE run, he really was shocking.

ShawnRaven wrote: »

But hey, what would you like? HHH to have the belt back? Yeah, that's a reason to watch Smackdown these days! Edge has had a few runs with it, he doesn't need it back again so soon, who else is to put it on? Taker? So that he can get injured again and have to drop it after a month or two?

I reckon they should have kept it on Edge. His return at SS made a great impact, so why end that so soon? I wouldn't mind seeing an Edge vs. HHH fued, I think with good booking, it could do well. I'd be intrigued with how they could throw Christian into the mix as an aide to Edge in such a fued.

I know he's only back on TV, but i would like to see Kennedy thrown into the main event mix in some way - i'm not necessarily saying put the belt on him btw, before conclusions are jumped to! I think having him work as an underdog face against a heel champion who has good heat would be interesting.

slicus ricus

alan dunne 27 wrote: »

Silicus, would you have said the same thing about Edge a few years ago when he started to get world title shots ?

No, definately not. Have always liked Edge, particularly as a heel! When the whole Lita thing started, the guy was on fire!

ShawnRaven

slicus ricus wrote: »

I'm actually one of the few who's an advocate of Cena being champ but that's another issue.

Yeah, Jeff was never punked out by Ron Killings over who was the better rapper, lol. But Jeff has no credibility as being a champion... riiiiight.

His brother is every bit as bad as Jeff is, in my opinion. I reckon he's a bit more solid in the ring but has the charisma of a dead fish! I must say Matt bores the hell out of me. Clearly you got the idea that i was some sort of super Matt fan out of me saying that he's in better shape than Jeff.

Nah, i'm just tired of the comparisons. Especially when they work two completely different styles. Please don't get me wrong, i'm not knocking you or your opinions personally at all. I do respect them, even if i do heavily disagree with them. Jeff is in a lot better shape than he was when he returned in 2006 for the record, he still had a belly on him when he came back before Summer 06, i actually feared for him and his opponents whenever he did a Swanton bomb back then.

Wasn't aware they even sold those things, does this mean we're gonna see a load of Jeff Hardy wanabies wearing them around town? I understand that Jeff sells a lot of merch, but if the title reign is a flop, his credibility will decline and WWE probably won't be selling any more Hardy merch than they already are.

We've been seeing a lot of Jeff Hardy wannabes around town since about 2003-2004. I believe they call them emos.

The credibility won't go down the pan, worse people than Jeff have held the title, Khali, CP Munk, hell people were outraged when JBL first won the strap in 2004. Another thing people conveniently forget.

As pointed out already, both have only been suspended once for wellness violations.

Fair point, but do you not see a third strike being on the cards a motivator for staying on the straight? I know if i was on my last warning in work, i do everything I can to keep the head down, especially when i have a mortgage and bills to pay. Some people need a few kicks to get the common sense in. Trust me, If Jeff f*cks it up, i'll be the first one to say he was an idiot. But i don't think he will. He's got the ball, he'll run with it until Vince asks for it back.

I hope for his sake that it's more successful, Punk's run was a disaster!

Jeff has a lot more people behind him for this run than CM Botch did.

He defo has improved, no doubt about that. For me that's not saying much because at the end of his last WWE run, he really was shocking.

Actually from you, that's saying a lot because of your initial disgust about WWE giving him the belt, maybe the message is getting through, huh?

I reckon they should have kept it on Edge. His return at SS made a great impact, so why end that so soon? I wouldn't mind seeing an Edge vs. HHH fued, I think with good booking, it could do well. I'd be intrigued with how they could throw Christian into the mix as an aide to Edge in such a fued.

It's only temporary, trust me, Edge will get a title run again and people will still go batsh*t for it. Edge has had shorter runs than this and has bounced back from it (the two week run after his first win from Cena, anyone?), as for Christian, i'll believe it when I see it. I still don't think that's gonna happen but thats another argument for another thread.

I know he's only back on TV, but i would like to see Kennedy thrown into the main event mix in some way - i'm not necessarily saying put the belt on him btw, before conclusions are jumped to! I think having him work as an underdog face against a heel champion who has good heat would be interesting.

You and me both, I'd like to see Kennedy with a title run too, however only if he doesn't do a Crippletaker and get injured as soon as he gets the belt.

slicus ricus

ShawnRaven wrote: »

Yeah, Jeff was never punked out by Ron Killings over who was the better rapper, lol. But Jeff has no credibility as being a champion... riiiiight.

You'd swear Killings was Dr. f**kin Dre or something! He's equally as bad a rapper as Cena!! I think Cena's credibility as champion is based around his physique, charisma, and well-documented work ethic among other less glaringly obvious factors. Jeff on the other hand, while he has an undeniable charisma about him, has for most of his career been known for his lack of motivation, general laziness, and badly delivered promos. Fair enough, as i've said, he has good charisma about him and dods some extreme stuff and to his credit, he seems to be a lot more motivated this weather.

ShawnRaven wrote: »

We've been seeing a lot of Jeff Hardy wannabes around town since about 2003-2004. I believe they call them emos.

I thought emos were slightly different. Whatever happened to the days of smelly rockers, as opposed to slightly affeminate lads wearing tights over their arms? I feel old!

ShawnRaven wrote: »

The credibility won't go down the pan, worse people than Jeff have held the title, Khali, CP Munk, hell people were outraged when JBL first won the strap in 2004. Another thing people conveniently forget.

Not quite what i was getting at. I was more saying that his merch sales probably won't increase with him being champ and even more likely won't increase if his title run goes badly. I was all in favour of JBL getting the belt back in 04, he was a freekin heat machine at the time, people were going batsh*t as you'd say yourself:D.

ShawnRaven wrote: »

Fair point, but do you not see a third strike being on the cards a motivator for staying on the straight? I know if i was on my last warning in work, i do everything I can to keep the head down, especially when i have a mortgage and bills to pay. Some people need a few kicks to get the common sense in. Trust me, If Jeff f*cks it up, i'll be the first one to say he was an idiot. But i don't think he will. He's got the ball, he'll run with it until Vince asks for it back.

I can see what you mean there, it certainly would hammer home the message alright. I still think it makes someones character a little questionable if it takes a final warning before they get their act together and make the most of an excellent opportunity they've been given.

ShawnRaven wrote: »

Actually from you, that's saying a lot because of your initial disgust about WWE giving him the belt, maybe the message is getting through, huh?

John O'Shea is a better defender than he was a few years ago but I still wouldn't rate him as top class by any standards. See where i'm going with this....

ShawnRaven wrote: »

It's only temporary, trust me, Edge will get a title run again and people will still go batsh*t for it. Edge has had shorter runs than this and has bounced back from it (the two week run after his first win from Cena, anyone?), as for Christian, i'll believe it when I see it. I still don't think that's gonna happen but thats another argument for another thread.

I agree with you about Edge not really being effected by losing the title but i think they could have done a lot with him as champ now. You're the ultimate skeptic when it comes to people returning to the big 'E' - "someone's gonna save us but it won't be Chris Jericho" - anyone remember that??:D

flahavaj

Jeff will be a transitional champ who'll probably be booked like a chump. Cue tedious ten-page threads every Tuesday morning after RAW airs as his anguished fanboys wail at the injustice of it all.:pac:

Brolly

flahavaj wrote: »

Jeff will be a transitional champ who'll probably be booked like a chump. Cue tedious ten-page threads every Tuesday morning after RAW airs as his anguished fanboys wail at the injustice of it all.:pac:

I can gaurantee that will not happen! You'll have to wait until Friday nights/Saturday mornings when Smackdown is over!;)

flahavaj

brolly wrote: »

I can gaurantee that will not happen! You'll have to wait until Friday nights/Saturday mornings when Smackdown is over!;)

Be gor you have me there brolly, no flies on you!

The point still stands though.

Of course maybe they'll "misuse" him so badly that they'll put him on RAW as well to make him look bad at the expense of the "established" main eventers. Oh the humanity as the flourescent little fraggle's fans toss their arm yokeys to the ground in despair!

Red Sleeping Beauty

ShawnRaven wrote: »

Jeff is in a lot better shape than he was when he returned in 2006 for the record, he still had a belly on him when he came back before Summer 06, i actually feared for him and his opponents whenever he did a Swanton bomb back then.


You and me both, I'd like to see Kennedy with a title run too, however only if he doesn't do a Crippletaker and get injured as soon as he gets the belt.

I've always closed my eyes when he does the senton bomb.

I'd also like to see Kennedy get a run, a run at something, anything!

Bull Buchanan

im delighted jeff won the title, i cant be the only girl on here who thinks hes gorgeous.

why did they make matt lose in a non title match seems weird?

Red Sleeping Beauty

You're a girl with a username like that ?
Nice first post

Bull Buchanan

ever heard of bull nakano?

she was a woman too

Red Sleeping Beauty

Nah, she wasn't really. She was a beast!

Bull Buchanan

so am I

EdK

Rawr!

Bull Buchanan

OK......Back on topic. How long will jeff hardy be champion for? do ye think hes going to be in the wrestlemania main event?

D.Q

alan dunne 27 wrote: »

I'd also like to see Kennedy get a run, a run at something, anything!

I dont think Im ever going to get his appeal, I cant see him being given a run anytime soon!

ShawnRaven

Bull Buchanan wrote: »

im delighted jeff won the title, i cant be the only girl on here who thinks hes gorgeous.

No youre not. I know a few girls who find his appearance quite hot. But then, i have a shaved head and several piercings in my face and as a result, i hang out with people who some would consider "quite a strange appearance"

why did they make matt lose in a non title match seems weird?

Nah, they're building Koslov, so having him lose to Jobberweight Matt would screw his image, whereas Matt is a glorified jobber anyway and a loss for him wouldn't damage him, especially if the title wasn't on the line.

Welcome to PW btw.

ShawnRaven

Bull Buchanan wrote: »

OK......Back on topic. How long will jeff hardy be champion for? do ye think hes going to be in the wrestlemania main event?

I'd highly doubt it. I'd say he'll hang onto it for the Rumble, but will drop it at No Way Out.

Red Sleeping Beauty

ShawnRaven wrote: »

No youre not. I know a few girls who find his appearance quite hot. But then, i have a shaved head and several piercings in my face and as a result, i hang out with people who some would consider "quite a strange appearance"

:eek:
Super secret information about what Shawn looks like:D

ShawnRaven

alan dunne 27 wrote: »

:eek:
Super secret information about what Shawn looks like:D

You're either highly obsessed or else you're a stalker.
Because you're the only person on this bloody forum who gives a rats about what i look like, lol! :P

slicus ricus

ShawnRaven wrote: »

You're either highly obsessed or else you're a stalker.
Because you're the only person on this bloody forum who gives a rats about what i look like, lol! :P

That's probably because a lot of people on this forum have seen you at wrestling shows at one point or another!:pac:

Bull Buchanan

ShawnRaven wrote: »

No youre not. I know a few girls who find his appearance quite hot. But then, i have a shaved head and several piercings in my face and as a result, i hang out with people who some would consider "quite a strange appearance"



Nah, they're building Koslov, so having him lose to Jobberweight Matt would screw his image, whereas Matt is a glorified jobber anyway and a loss for him wouldn't damage him, especially if the title wasn't on the line.

Welcome to PW btw.

Aww thank you for the welcome. What have you against matt though, hes second only to jeff in hotness stakes! And while hes not as spectacular as jeff hes a good steady wrestler as well.

And theres nothing wrong with lookin a little alternative, im all about that.;)