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Christmas

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    #32
    midlandsmissus
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,838 ✭✭✭midlandsmissus


    stevencarrwork wrote: »
    I can go to 4th July parties and I'm not even American.

    That's not a religious celebration stevencarrwork, so doesnt really conflict with a religious belief as such, as christmas does with atheism.


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    #33
    Dave!
    Closed Accounts Posts: 27,857 ✭✭✭✭Dave!


    midlandsmissus wrote: »
    That's not a religious celebration stevencarrwork, so doesnt really conflict with a religious belief as such, as christmas does with atheism.
    Not American -> still celebrates 4th July

    Not Christian -> still celebrates Christmas


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    #34
    midlandsmissus
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,838 ✭✭✭midlandsmissus


    Dave! wrote: »
    Not American -> still celebrates 4th July

    Not Christian -> still celebrates Christmas

    Dave celebrating the 4th of July hardly compromises your atheist beliefs does it. No comparison there at all.


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    #35
    stevencarrwork
    Closed Accounts Posts: 61 ✭✭stevencarrwork


    midlandsmissus wrote: »
    That's not a religious celebration stevencarrwork, so doesnt really conflict with a religious belief as such, as christmas does with atheism.

    I think you are confusing atheists with Puritans, good Christians, who launched a war on Christmas.


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    #36
    Dave!
    Closed Accounts Posts: 27,857 ✭✭✭✭Dave!


    midlandsmissus wrote: »
    Dave celebrating the 4th of July hardly compromises your atheist beliefs does it. No comparison there at all.
    Are you intentionally missing the point?

    Celebrating 4th July compromises your lack of American [heritage]

    Celebrating Christmas compromises your lack of Christian beliefs

    If I listen to Christian music does that make me a hypocrite too? If I enjoy looking at Da Vinci's paintings?


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    #37
    condra
    Registered Users Posts: 3,849 ✭✭✭condra


    Christmas for me is a cultural festival. People do it differently in different parts of the world, and people call it different things, but its origins are in the shifting axis of the Earths rotation - the seasons.

    The combination of good food, gifts, family, alcohol, music, dancing, bright lights, decoration etc, is all very hedonistic.

    What better time of year to celebrate than the coldest, darkest period (in the Northern Hemisphere), when everything is about to change?

    The whole Earths axis has stopped tilting, and is beginning to tilt in the opposite direction, and will do so for 6 months.

    It is the middle of deep Winter, and we're still alive. Now we have so much to look forward to.

    Humans have recognised (and celebrated) this cosmic event for thousands of years, indeed the ancients in this small island copped onto it at least 5000 years ago.

    If Christianity we're to disappear tomorrow, humans would continue to celebrate the solstice for thousands of years still.


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    #38
    midlandsmissus
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,838 ✭✭✭midlandsmissus


    Dave! wrote: »
    Are you intentionally missing the point?

    Celebrating 4th July compromises your lack of American [heritage]

    Celebrating Christmas compromises your lack of Christian beliefs

    If I listen to Christian music does that make me a hypocrite too? If I enjoy looking at Da Vinci's paintings?

    Are you deliberately missing the point? How does celebrating 4th July compromise your lack of american heritage. eh, no it doesnt.

    The point is, one of those celebrations is religious and the other isn't. And therfore being an atheist, celebrating one of those makes you a hypocrite. Whereas celebrating the other one of them just makes you a bit idiotic. Why celebrate something that has absolutely nothing to do with you.


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    #39
    Dave!
    Closed Accounts Posts: 27,857 ✭✭✭✭Dave!


    Any number of reasons... tradition... fun... taking advantage of a public holiday...

    Why listen to music that is intended to praise god, etc.? Why look at paintings that are supposed to be a homage to jesus?

    Perhaps because you don't have to be religious to appreciate aspects of them?

    Can you perhaps draw a parallel there with any upcoming religious holidays...?


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    #40
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 5,121 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    midlandsmissus wrote: »
    And therfore being an atheist, celebrating one of those makes you a hypocrite.
    How does enjoying a solstice / mid winter party make you a hypocrite?

    What do you want us to do? Sit at home and not watch any TV cos it's christmas TV. Go to work?

    Even the guys I work with in Dubai will be off that day so there is no point going in.


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    #41
    condra
    Registered Users Posts: 3,849 ✭✭✭condra


    Lots of secular people take part in religious rituals and celebrations, out of respect for tradition, curiosity, cultural integration etc. It's all part of not being bigoted.

    Either way, "Christmas" is not an appropriate word for it anymore, not that I care much. I love Christmas.


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    #42
    midlandsmissus
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,838 ✭✭✭midlandsmissus


    Deleted User wrote: »
    How does enjoying a solstice / mid winter party make you a hypocrite?

    What do you want us to do? Sit at home and not watch any TV cos it's christmas TV. Go to work?

    Even the guys I work with in Dubai will be off that day so there is no point going in.

    How does enjoying a solstice/mid winter party make you a hypocrite.

    Because you would have seached for that term to justify it to yourself.

    Yes personally if I wasnt a christian, I wouldnt mark the day at all. Especially, if i was an atheist.


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    #43
    hairyheretic
    Registered Users Posts: 1,257 ✭✭✭hairyheretic


    midlandsmissus wrote: »
    Clarify it for me a bit more. I take it you are a fully fledged pagan as you are celebrating a pagan festival. I would like to hear more of what you do as a devout pagan: what do you do other times of the year?

    If you really want an answer to that, why not drop by the paganism forum and ask?


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    #44
    toiletduck
    Registered Users Posts: 2,379 ✭✭✭toiletduck


    midlandsmissus wrote: »
    Yes personally if I wasnt a christian, I wouldnt mark the day at all. Especially, if i was an atheist.

    Why not?


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    #45
    RayMc
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22 ✭RayMc


    midlandsmissus wrote: »
    How does enjoying a solstice/mid winter party make you a hypocrite.

    Because you would have seached for that term to justify it to yourself.

    Yes personally if I wasnt a christian, I wouldnt mark the day at all. Especially, if i was an atheist.

    This is going to be your first year celebrating christmas? Fun times for you


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    #46
    midlandsmissus
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,838 ✭✭✭midlandsmissus


    womoma wrote: »
    Lots of secular people take part in religious rituals and celebrations, out of respect for tradition, curiosity, cultural integration etc. It's all part of not being bigoted.

    Either way, "Christmas" is not an appropriate word for it anymore, not that I care much. I love Christmas.

    Womoma you have come on the christian board and been very extreme and said 'I am trying to save at least one person from the deception that is christianity', and there you are 'taking part in religious rituals and celebrations, out of respect for tradition, curiosity, cultural integration'. It kind of belittles what you said earlier.


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    #47
    condra
    Registered Users Posts: 3,849 ✭✭✭condra


    MLM with all due respect, it is starting to sound to me like you have a real issue with atheists the people, aswell as atheism, the viewpoint.

    Suggesting that atheists have no place in celebrating or enjoying Christmas is quite absurd.


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    #48
    midlandsmissus
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,838 ✭✭✭midlandsmissus


    And Womoma, i dont want that to sound too harsh, because you have also been very nice to me on here, it's just the spirit of the argument :)


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    #49
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 5,121 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    midlandmissus - what did you do at halloween?
    Did you get dressesd up? Did you take the kids trick or treating?


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    #50
    midlandsmissus
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,838 ✭✭✭midlandsmissus


    womoma wrote: »
    MLM with all due respect, it is starting to sound to me like you have a real issue with atheists the people, aswell as atheism, the viewpoint.

    Suggesting that atheists have no place in celebrating or enjoying Christmas is quite absurd.

    But how is it absurd, when athiests on here make sure Christians adhere to every single aspect of Christianity or say we are being flippant christians, and yet it is okay for atheists to do what ever they want, and even celebrate religious festivals?

    Quid pro quo, you said it to me, i'll say it to you.


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    #51
    Dave!
    Closed Accounts Posts: 27,857 ✭✭✭✭Dave!


    midlandsmissus wrote: »
    How does enjoying a solstice/mid winter party make you a hypocrite.

    Because you would have seached for that term to justify it to yourself.

    Yes personally if I wasnt a christian, I wouldnt mark the day at all. Especially, if i was an atheist.
    What would you do when your family all come up for dinner? Go to your room?

    You seem to think that not believing in something means that you have to actively oppose it.

    I'm not a Buddhist, but I'd be interested in going to a temple.

    I'm not a Catholic, but I'd love to see the Vatican.


    BTW feel free to address my point about religious music and art


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    #52
    midlandsmissus
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,838 ✭✭✭midlandsmissus


    Deleted User wrote: »
    midlandmissus - what did you do at halloween?
    Did you get dressesd up? Did you take the kids trick or treating?

    No I dont celebrate Halloween. And I dont have kids!


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    #53
    condra
    Registered Users Posts: 3,849 ✭✭✭condra


    Not all atheists are anti-theists.

    I am an idealogically opposed to religion, but I can still appreciate it, especially as a quaint historical/cultural phenomenon.


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    #54
    velocirafter
    Registered Users Posts: 279 ✭✭velocirafter


    lets be realistic, christmas in its current incarnation has very little to do with christian religion.

    Unless you're actually in or near a church there is no religious iconography to be seen. Its all fairy lights, christmas trees and santa clauses.

    I enjoy the hustle and bustle, the decorations, the reunions and the over-eating. Imagine how bleak the winter would be without christmas to occupy our thoughts for a couple of weeks.

    i go to lots of festivals that dont have anything to do with religion and to be honest i would lump christmas in that category also.


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    #55
    Stercus Accidit
    Registered Users Posts: 8,758 ✭✭✭Stercus Accidit


    I'm an atheist, I don't believe in any God or subscribe to any religion.

    But, big but here, the 25th of December has feck all left to do with Jesus, in its current form, as pointed out, its more like the pagan festival it used to be, the 25th of december, note I dont call it christmas, its not, its the time off and partying that occurs around this date.

    Now, if as an atheist, I went to mass, prayed to jesus the son of God sent to die for our sins, ate communion, drank the wine and did all the catholic things, then I would be hypocritical.
    Taking time off, eating, drinking and seeing friends and exchanging gifts is what I WILL be doing, and that has nothing to do with your religion, and is the case with a hell of a lot of people these days.


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    #56
    condra
    Registered Users Posts: 3,849 ✭✭✭condra


    ^ Well put


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    #57
    ironingbored
    Registered Users Posts: 2,126 ✭✭✭ironingbored


    Deleted User wrote: »
    midlandmissus - what did you do at halloween?
    Did you get dressesd up? Did you take the kids trick or treating?

    She was celebrating All Saints Day eve.


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    #58
    ironingbored
    Registered Users Posts: 2,126 ✭✭✭ironingbored


    midlandsmissus wrote: »
    But how is it absurd, when athiests on here make sure Christians adhere to every single aspect of Christianity or say we are being flippant christians, and yet it is okay for atheists to do what ever they want, and even celebrate religious festivals?

    Quid pro quo, you said it to me, i'll say it to you.


    The way in which you are missing the point (or rather pretending to) is quite tedious at this stage. No atheist "celebrates" Xmas.

    For me Xmas is a seasonal holiday during which I enjoy spending time with family and friends and exchanging gifts. There is no celebrating the Lord of the Vampires and Cannibals. There is no hidden agenda.


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    #59
    Gambler
    Registered Users Posts: 1,825 ✭✭✭Gambler


    <--- An Atheist that hasn't ever celebrated christmas

    Just to repeat it :P

    It seems that all the talk seems to be why do atheists still celebrate christmas :)


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    #60
    AtomicHorror
    Registered Users Posts: 5,888 ✭✭✭AtomicHorror


    midlandsmissus wrote: »
    No I dont celebrate Halloween. And I dont have kids!

    If and when you do, will you allow them to celebrate it? Or will you have them treat the night like any other. I know which one I plan to go for.

    That same family/friends thing is part of the deal with atheists and Christmas. The country is celebrating a day which has a broader meaning than just a religious one. Are we to sit in the corner like a bunch of party poopers?


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    #61
    Galvasean
    Registered Users Posts: 30,746 ✭✭✭✭Galvasean


    As an atheist on the 25th of December I give/receive presents, spend time with the family, eat good food, have a couple of drinks and enjoy a few days off work.
    I don't go to Mass or do any religious stuff, except for the little manger scene diorama we set up each year, but it's all a bit tongue-in-cheek (Elven king anyone? Actually might do one of just Transformers this year... Bumblebee can be the baby Jesus, Arcee and Hot Rod are Mary and Joseph, Optimus, Alpha Trion and Ultra Magnus can be the three wise men, Jetfire can be the angel, the dinobots can be the animals that warmed the baby Jesus Bumblebee with their breath.... Oh man, this started out as a joke but I'm SO gonna do it now! :pac:)

    That and I call it Christmas, but more for convenience's sake than anything.


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