Should the banks wait longer before starting possession proceedings?

JimiTime

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AARRRGH

smccarrick wrote: »

Warning.....
No personal abuse.......

I'm not sure if that's aimed at me. Apologies if it is, my post was not meant as any sort of personal attack.

asdasd

In general the idea that people are responsoble for their own lifes is true, and there is amongst all of us who stayed out of the market a sense of schadenfreude at people who stayed in, but Fatloss08 has a point.

he pays the penalty but the banks get bailed out. Hardly fair.

AARRRGH

asdasd wrote: »

the penalty but the banks get bailed out. Hardly fair.

I agree completely - the banks getting a bail out is "unfair".

I don't see what the alternative is though... allow the banks collapse? That's a lose lose for everyone.

The_Conductor

asdasd wrote: »

he pays the penalty but the banks get bailed out. Hardly fair.

Its not a free ride though- the institutions partaking of the bailout have to pay EUR2billion over the next 2 years (to the end of Sept. 2010) for the pleasure of availing of the government guarantee.

Then again- as its degraded Irish sovereign debt and we need to restructure 38billion by next April, along with possibly borrowing another 14 or 15- well over a billion of the 2 billion is immediately spent on higher interest payments on our national debt, than we would otherwise have been making.......

merlynthewizard

Brown unveils mortgage help plan

Many people facing repossession will be able to defer part of their mortgage interest payments for up to two years under plans unveiled by Gordon Brown.

The plan is designed to give those who lose their jobs or take a big cut in their income an extended breathing space before losing their home as well.

The scheme will cover mortgages worth up to £400,000, the BBC understands.

Mr Brown made the announcement during a House of Commons debate on the Queen's Speech, which took place earlier.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/7763044.stm

petrochemical

SimpleSam06 wrote: »

Either that or get into politics.

You have my support, for one. A new party for the Celtic Phoenix...

merlynthewizard

Well I'm out of work and have a 100% 330k mortgage over 35 years of which I have repaid 12 months.
I have never missed a payment but my savings are nearly through the wall after losing my job out of the blue in march. I am getting offered work overseas but the wage is not enough to pay the excess on my property too after its rented at current rates.
So do I just offer the 200 euro a week dole payments to the mortgage and myself and the wife not eat or do I hand the keys back to the bank manager?

My wife is a foreign national too so its not so easy for her to find work but she does waitress for about 290 a week and I have found a few little jobs temping but in total has not added up to more than 10 weeks over all

stepbar

Fatloss08 wrote: »

my life is dandy , earn alot , work for a family business etc

im not blamming anybody , i simply just said that if a bank gives out money without proper precautions they should be thought a lesson ,

better give back my new car and 50" tv and get my life sorted out so

cop on , not always back and white

Wow, 70k eh? and can't spell. Nice.

FYI, someone on a salary of 70k (assuming no other debt) could hope to get a mortgage of approx 350k @ 92% = 322k (based on a multiple of 5 times gross salary). I love people like you who have no real clue of what they're talking about.

bigsam

we put a deposit on house last feb after getting full mortgage approval.......
firstly bank have reduced loan amount from 95% to 92%
reducing our loan amount......
now valuation reduced by 20 grand and loan amount ma y be now only 80% because of new contract....
we are 45 grand short now cause of this where do we stand we both could have covered the mortgage easily at start but now we are completely stumped.....
the builder wont budge on price ...
we can,t now go ahead cause of all this do we have any case if it goes to court

SimpleSam06

merlynthewizard wrote: »

Well I'm out of work and have a 100% 330k mortgage over 35 years of which I have repaid 12 months.

My sincere sympathies for your troubles. Have you looked into renting a room in the house, you can have up to 10k a year tax free under the rent-a-room scheme?

The_Conductor

merlynthewizard wrote: »

Well I'm out of work and have a 100% 330k mortgage over 35 years of which I have repaid 12 months.
I have never missed a payment but my savings are nearly through the wall after losing my job out of the blue in march. I am getting offered work overseas but the wage is not enough to pay the excess on my property too after its rented at current rates.
So do I just offer the 200 euro a week dole payments to the mortgage and myself and the wife not eat or do I hand the keys back to the bank manager?

My wife is a foreign national too so its not so easy for her to find work but she does waitress for about 290 a week and I have found a few little jobs temping but in total has not added up to more than 10 weeks over all

Contact your local Community Welfare Officer. There is a state benefit which helps people in your position make interest repayments on their mortgages. There are a number of criteria you have to meet- but its entirely possible that you might qualify. I'd advise you have a browse of the State Benefits forum here on boards. Link here.

S.

bigsam

with us we never lied to bank about earnings or anything we were told we would get 95% of the 315,000 easily an we both still have good jobs can the bank really turn around and leave us 50 grand short and at the mercy of the builder

bigsam

bigsam wrote: »

we put a deposit on house last feb after getting full mortgage approval.......
firstly bank have reduced loan amount from 95% to 92%
reducing our loan amount......
now valuation reduced by 20 grand and loan amount ma y be now only 80% because of new contract....
we are 45 grand short now cause of this where do we stand we both could have covered the mortgage easily at start but now we are completely stumped.....
the builder wont budge on price ...
we can,t now go ahead cause of all this do we have any case if it goes to court

anyone any ideas on this

The_Conductor

bigsam wrote: »

with us we never lied to bank about earnings or anything we were told we would get 95% of the 315,000 easily an we both still have good jobs can the bank really turn around and leave us 50 grand short and at the mercy of the builder

Check the terms of your mortgage approval in principle document. Banks have been trying to wriggle out of a lot of agreements they put in place previously- as they are now seen to be poor value/bad risks.

You should get your solicitor to contact the builder's solicitor advising them of the situation. If you have signed the contract with the builder- examine the contract (or have it examined on your behalf) in minute detail. Its entirely possible that some of the terms or conditions attached to it may be breached- which could be legally argued to make the document void.

If this is the case- you might possibly loose your deposit- but its also possible that it could be used as a bargaining tool with the builder to have the price reduced to current market values (if indeed these can be determined.......)

S.

godtabh

Fatloss08 wrote: »

well on the repossesion thing

banks shouldnt be allowed to

they created the mess , buy giving mortgages to people who didnt qualify for a mortgage , i borrowed 305k and i checked and i needed to earn 140k a year to get that on my own , but i earn half of that but they still gave me it , so its their own fault and the banks want tax payers money used to bail them out so they can screw us more ???

ehh no

smccarrick wrote: »

Very true. A shocking number of people made what is the biggest financial decision of their lives without ever reading the fine print of what they were signing....... It is unreasonable and unrealistic to expect to be bailed out. Apart from anything else- the money simply is not there to bailout people who got carried away with irrational exuberance about the economy...... Perhaps they might pay a little less heed to politicians and the media next time round, and actually put a bit of research into their actions........

I was offered a home loan 10 times my then salary. The banks reckoned I could pay it but I didnt so I finally got a loan about 100k less than what the bank were willing to offer me.

I've not got a saving fund that could pay of the loan for about 8 months if I got let go. Alot of thinking went to this.

I wonder how many people thought behond getting there new keys? I think these people deserve what they get

merlynthewizard

kearnsr wrote: »

I was offered a home loan 10 times my then salary. The banks reckoned I could pay it but I didnt so I finally got a loan about 100k less than what the bank were willing to offer me.

I've not got a saving fund that could pay of the loan for about 8 months if I got let go. Alot of thinking went to this.

I wonder how many people thought behond getting there new keys? I think these people deserve what they get

I did but things changed fast and I did not have time to react in the 3 months I moved in but it's comments like your that makes me think I should just throw the keys and the back manger and head off out of europe with that job offer never to return.
Imagine if everyone in a similar situation to mine done the same sending this country (which is already in a bigger mess then most of europe) back to being the economic backwash of western europe again.

It won't effect my new life

See we both can be selfish prats

johnnyskeleton

Victor wrote: »

I think they should be quicker to be honest.

Quicker than 2 months i.e. 1 month in arrears? Don't forget that if you miss the due date on a payment you are one month in arrears.

The reason why the banks don't seek orders for possession earlier is nothing to do with charity or whatever, it is a practical business decision.

The vast majority of arrears cases are dealt with without the bank repossessing a property. If you think about it, a lot of people have difficult times - lose a job for a few months, have a new baby and are on unpaid leave, sudden bereavement, grossly mismanage their funds, marital breakup etc.

Also Irish law for the most common type of mortgage is not simply you've missed 2 months therefore have breached the terms of the mortgage therefore we are entitled to recover possession. Irish law is that the court will not grant possession unless they are satisfied that the person cannot or will not repay the principle + interest on or before the end of the mortgage.

merlynthewizard

Tom Parlon should be shot. What an odious **** of a man. Indeed the government should have fallen, after the decision to provide €1.67 billion in new, sub-prime loans. I mean, what the ****???

Trying to con, more people in their 20's into buying overpriced, overvlaued, shoeboxes. Burdening and saddling people with a mountain of debt, negative equity and basic economic slavery, for 40+ years. Anyone who buys, or is thinking of buying property now, in this country. IS A MORON.

Hold off, for another 3 years. Let the ******* thing crash. **** the builders, and their lackys in government. If they are so stuck for revenue, then why don't they increase the measly €200 tax on second and third properties, to something meaningful. Like €2000. Afterall, it's the generation 40+ who have accumulate all the "wealth". Which is being paid for by those and will continue to be paid for, by the 20-35 age block. Tax those who have been part of the property inflation. The **** with three empty houses, looking to extort rent out of young couples. Take them to the ******* cleaners. Not people over 70, or increasing the sub-prime mess with those in their 20's.

If ever there was an example of where FF's real priorities lie, then it's this current shambles. Their mates in the CFI and the building sector. Not with the vast majority of the population. Specifically those in their 20'-30's. Who are being screwed.

Fatloss08

merlynthewizard wrote: »

Tom Parlon should be shot. What an odious **** of a man. Indeed the government should have fallen, after the decision to provide €1.67 billion in new, sub-prime loans. I mean, what the ****???

Trying to con, more people in their 20's into buying overpriced, overvlaued, shoeboxes. Burdening and saddling people with a mountain of debt, negative equity and basic economic slavery, for 40+ years. Anyone who buys, or is thinking of buying property now, in this country. IS A MORON.

Hold off, for another 3 years. Let the ******* thing crash. **** the builders, and their lackys in government. If they are so stuck for revenue, then why don't they increase the measly €200 tax on second and third properties, to something meaningful. Like €2000. Afterall, it's the generation 40+ who have accumulate all the "wealth". Which is being paid for by those and will continue to be paid for, by the 20-35 age block. Tax those who have been part of the property inflation. The **** with three empty houses, looking to extort rent out of young couples. Take them to the ******* cleaners. Not people over 70, or increasing the sub-prime mess with those in their 20's.

If ever there was an example of where FF's real priorities lie, then it's this current shambles. Their mates in the CFI and the building sector. Not with the vast majority of the population. Specifically those in their 20'-30's. Who are being screwed.

dude your my hero

i completely agree 1million %

what about banks wanting irish tax payers money to help bail them out ??? so they can lend and screw somebody else ??

or

why should the government help them out ??? as many say the bank is a business , like all business if u dont have money u go bust simple , if they help the bank then i think they have to help the homeowner

why do you think alot of younger people dont vote ??? because no matter who you elect in you get shafted , all back handing swines

seamus

To a certain extent I would let the builders off on this one. They got sucked in just as everyone else did.

If you look at it from their point of view, they had people lining up, sleeping in their cars overnight to buy houses. They had people throwing money at them for houses which had barely made it out of the planning process. As a business, they were in demand in a big way, and the right business sense in that case is to work to satisfy that demand.

The planning processes and the ridiculous permissions given were secondary issues to this - even if planning regulations were stricter, the demand for housing still would have existed. If the Government had capped house building at say 40,000 units per year, we'd still be in a position of people clamouring for housing and prices would probably be way above what they reached at the peak.

The issue was the demand in the first place and how that was allowed to run out of control;

Firstly the banks were providing money to people who clearly couldn't afford it. This dumps people into the market who otherwise wouldn't have been there and inflates demand

Secondly the Government have allowed investor purchasing totally out of control, even offering people tax *breaks* to buy investment properties. This was by far the biggest mistake - it should have been (and should be now) a significant cost to own an investment property. Allowing significant investment in the property market is primarily what lead to the overproduction. Of course the banks played their part in this too by allowing investors to get mortgages sometimes based solely on the fact that they already had a mortgage on another inflating property.

Investors should be buying/owning properties because they can make rental income on them, not because they can be allowed to sit there. The problem is that people were even convinced by the Government that housing was akin to gold or oil.
The problem is that housing isn't a finite, precious item like gold or oil. As we've now seen, it is possible to collapse the price of the asset by simply making more of it.

So I don't see the logic in blaming the builders. They were simply reacting to economic conditions as they existed. They weren't "conning" anyone into anything as they had no idea that it would all end. Most builders are like the most of the rest of us - they have no training in business and no education in economics. So they had no reason to believe that it would all end in tears.

seamus

Actually, just to back up my point above about builders not exactly being shrewd economists, Abbey PLC who would be a larger building firm, came out with this nugget today:

The company attributed the results to the downturn in the UK and Ireland property sector, saying market conditions in both territiories "continue to be severely impacted by the prevailing negative sentiment."

They still think that houses aren't shifting just because people think it's not a good time to buy.