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Difference between cruelty and learning.
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01-12-2008 11:58pm#1OK,
I was walking with a friend of mine and her dog. She has a male black labrador, about 8 months old. He's out of control, she asked me for advice on how to handle him. I assumed she was exaggerating. Oh this thing was wild. Rang her doorbell he went nuts, barked at me, which is probably normal because he's protecting his territory and I've never met him before.
Most owners would say 'Bed!' or a simple 'Shut up!' and the dog would calm down. Whatever my friend is doing, she's doing it wrong. After a struggle she got the lead on him and we went for a walk by the river in Lucan.
On the lead he's always running around, takes her for walk. I started saying how she should teach him the heel commands and such. However she says if she tried to teach he would ignore her or, alarmingly, growl at her. Enough is enough I said, dogs need to learn their place in the family, i.e lower than humans.
She agreed he needed training and we set about to do it at that moment. She dragged him closer and shouted 'Heel'! The dog, Bruno, was having none of it. In fact he started growling and snapping at her. I got worried so I approached him and gave him a slap on the nose. It wasn't too hard. And he gave a small yelp. Immediately, he backed down. He learned that is not allowed. He know nows what would happen if he did it again.
As a pack animal this is how they learn from their superiors. Laura, my friend, was still a bit afriad of the dog so I held her and we both approached Bruno, slowly. He started licking me, classic sign of dominance. Of course, another woman approached me and started calling me all sorts of things. Saying how I was cruel to animals, surprise surprise, she wasn't a dog owner.
Now, training dogs is not easy. I trained my dog. I never hit her if she didn't do it, I hit her when she bit me as a pup, after that she learned I was the boss and never needed to teach her again. Training her to sit and such I had to push her back down and yell 'Sit!', and drag her outside when I said 'Out!' and of course lifted her into her bed when I wanted to teach her the Bed command.
I don't hit unless it's necessary, and by necessary I mean when the dog is getting violent. I think this is the best approach. Some may disagree, but look at Bruno, he's much better, although I have to teach him that Laura is the boss not me. I have stages in dog obedience.
1. Say the command, if he does not respond, say it louder.
2. Stand up straight and look as big as you can (if only this could apply for other things
) to try and scare the dog a little.
3. Get rough, I don't mean inflict pain, if he doesn't respond push him or drag him into his bed until he learns.
4. Still won't respond, gentle tap on the nose. Although be careful to distungish that the dog is being disobidient rather than he doesn't know what to do.
I hate animal cruelty, but hitting a dog, in some cases, is needed and justified.1
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I think that mimicking the behaviour of the mother/father dog/cat is ok. Animals will use a small amount of force to assert themselves.
AFAIK the mother/father will bite down on the scruff of the neck of the puppy/kitten to show who's boss and so it should be ok for an owner.
When my kittens try to get up onto the kitchen table I will push them back down onto a chair. This way they'll learn it's not ok to go on the table (well, at least when I in the room
) . Now they have come to the point they'll put a paw on the table and then look at me. If I move closer they move down again.
I also use lemon wipes before and after dinner to wipe the table, apparently cats don't like the smell of citrus (doesn't seem to work work on mine though).
Now, how to stop them from climbing up my legs with their sharp little claws...0 -
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I have 3 pups for 1 week, they know the bed command, outside command, are well on the way to learning sit and one of them is fetching. No shouting, pushing, yelling or dragging. :eek: I find the key is to let the dog know that when they please you something good will happen. Whether thats a treat, cuddle, toy. Gently show them a few times what you want, they will do it, because they want to please you. Not because you are "the boss" or because they fear you. Sometimes a slap might be warranted - as in Mairts case, or even your case with a friends dog. But the rest of your post just seems OTT.OK,
It wasn't too hard. And he gave a small yelp.
Training her to sit and such I had to push her back down and yell 'Sit!', and drag her outside when I said 'Out!' and of course lifted her into her bed when I wanted to teach her the Bed command.
I don't hit unless it's necessary, and by necessary I mean when the dog is getting violent. I think this is the best approach. Some may disagree, but look at Bruno, he's much better, although I have to teach him that Laura is the boss not me. I have stages in dog obedience.
1. Say the command, if he does not respond, say it louder.
2. Stand up straight and look as big as you can (if only this could apply for other things) to try and scare the dog a little.
3. Get rough, I don't mean inflict pain, if he doesn't respond push him or drag him into his bed until he learns.
4. Still won't respond, gentle tap on the nose. Although be careful to distungish that the dog is being disobidient rather than he doesn't know what to do.
.
Yes and some people feel that wiping a dogs nose in it's own excrement is a way of toilet training.As a dog owner, I use my methods. So far they have not failed me. There are some people who will take it too far, but I feel what I did, and do, is the best way.
My methods?OK here goes.
I don't have any awards or anything but just like any dog owner, or parent, you learn as you go along.
Sit! - Patches, my dog, her first command was to sit. We got some some treats from the pet shop to aid her. So I put her in the kitchen with me and put her in a sitting position and I shouted Sit! After a few minutes she got the message. For the rest of her life she sat when she was told to.
Out! - When I wanted her to go outside, or out of the room for whatever reason, I picked her up and placed her outside. I shouted out everytime I did it, she learned it pretty quickly.
Bed! - I picked her up and put her in her bed and shoute bed until she learned it.
Heel! - Bit difficult but if she attempted to stray away from me I would pull her back with the lead, rough yes, but she learned I was stronger than her and there was no point in her trying to dictate the route.
Biting - Yes she bit me on the finger and I hit her, not too hard though. Did she ever do it again? No. Did I ever hit her again? No.
Didn't need to teach her anything else. I'm such a cruel man!
SIT- get dogs attention with treat or toy, say (not yell) sit. Hold treat/toy over dogs head so they have to look up. Most will naturally sit, if not, gentle guidance as opposed to a push. 10 mins of doing this, most dogs will have an idea what is required and it doesn't take long to teach them to do it without a treat. (I'm still on the treat stage with mine)
OUT - go outside, call dog, dog follows, say outside. Change this to saying outside at the door then walking out, then change it by letting the dog out before you and saying outside.
BED - Walk to bed call dog, gently place dog in bed, say "bed", there is no need to shout, my dog is not deaf. I now have 3 little pups who will sit in their open crate for me while I cook/ clean because they know what bed means and they know when they are good they will get a treat. I have never raised my voice at them.
Heel - I have not done this yet. Any dog I have had has been too young to teach or else already knew.
Biting - Immediately stop play and ignore. It's the worst thing for a dog to have you in the room ignoring it. They will learn that biting causes you to ignore it and will stop.
If the dog is willing to please you that is. If not, you might need to shout, yell, push, shove, drag etc. But if you need to do this, you should question why.
you don't?? :eek:I don't have any awards or anything
:P 
I think that mimicking the behaviour of the mother/father dog/cat is ok. Animals will use a small amount of force to assert themselves.
AFAIK the mother/father will bite down on the scruff of the neck of the puppy/kitten to show who's boss and so it should be ok for an owner.
When my kittens try to get up onto the kitchen table I will push them back down onto a chair. This way they'll learn it's not ok to go on the table (well, at least when I in the room) . Now they have come to the point they'll put a paw on the table and then look at me. If I move closer they move down again.
I also use lemon wipes before and after dinner to wipe the table, apparently cats don't like the smell of citrus (doesn't seem to work work on mine though).
Now, how to stop them from climbing up my legs with their sharp little claws... Kittens are great.
Physical commands are fine, slapping and shouting is not really necessary IMO.0 -
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doctor evil wrote: »If you think thats cruelty you have lived a very sheltered life. Cruelty is what posters like Egar fight against each day.
In that context boomerang is a poster like EGAR.
In normal day to day training I've never had to slap my dogs, I rarely shout, I don't push, I don't drag and I don't force. They've learned everything I've wanted to teach them without resorting to violence in any way.
Of course there are times when I've yelled (and it's rare enough that it catches their attention straight away) and times when I've shoved the Dane in play but there's an obvious difference. There's no need to train through fear when you can do exactly the same thing without violence IMO.0 -
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