Question and Answers - Dec 01

syklops

Just watching Questions and Answers and they were discussing the Ryanair / Aer Lingus issue, and they asked for a show of hands as to whether Ryanair should be allowed to buy Aer Lingus. Not one person raised their hand for the argument, and 100% of people said they were against the purchase.

Now call me cynical but, did our state owned television station, fill the audience of questions and answers, with Aer lingus employees in an attempt to support its own decision in not allowing the sale.

Answers please....

mikemac

Cynical

It's not hard to get tickets, anyone can apply

Seriously, you're reading too much into it.
Sure start a poll in some forum and you won't see 100% for one side but it won't be far off

syklops

I'm just surprised to see 100% in any direction on questions and answers.

Ryanair are offering 750 million for Aer Lingus. The government would get about a quarter of that, now, call me small minded, but that 180-odd million, could get the government out of a lot of hot water. They could instantly say yes to the cervical cancer vaccine, as to other things they are in trouble over. So why are they not saying yes? Surely they dont think they will be in power to reap the profits when share prices return to what they were a few years ago?

seamus

I would imagine most people are opposed to it on two counts:

1. It would mean that if you don't want to fly Ryanair, you don't have a great choice. I don't like Ryanair, it's like travelling in a cattle truck.

2. Ryanair would use the Heathrow and JFK slots for far more profitable routes, such as Heathrow > JFK, leaving us poor Irish sods to fly into New Jersey to get to Manhattan.

mike65

The Q&A audience well known for being stuffed with various party hacks, media cubs and trade unionists.

Mike

syklops

Thank you mike, maybe I am not as cynical as I thought.

With regard to the potential buyout of Aer Lingus by ryanair, Michael O'Leary has stated many times that the two companies would remain separated, and tbh that is what I would do. Ryanair is a cheap flight airline. It has brought air travel to those who could not afford it and has done more for Irish economics and Irish tourism than anyone else. Alot of people say they dont like ryanair because it is like a cattle cart. Well if its a case of travelling by cattle cart or not travelling, most people will choose the former. Myself included.

We currently have more millionaires per head of population than many other european countries, so if I were Michael O'leary I would create the opposite of Ryanair in Aer Lingus. Luxury seating, free glass of champers when you board, the works, but you will pay for it. If ryanair were to buy Aer Lingus, they would be able to start trans-atlantic flights for ryanair, and keep trans-atlantic flights for Aer Lingus, and the consumer could then have the choice of cattle cart to New York for half nothing or luxury air travel with Aer Lingus.

Frankie Lee

I'd agree with that, Micheal O'Leary is not an evil man, the man believe it or not does actually care about what happens to this country and my belief is that it would be better for everyone if they do merge.

However the price currently offered is a joke. I would be in favour of the government selling it's stake if the price is right.

Pride Fighter

Frankie Lee wrote: »

I'd agree with that, Micheal O'Leary is not an evil man, the man believe it or not does actually care about what happens to this country and my belief is that it would be better for everyone if they do merge.

However the price currently offered is a joke. I would be in favour of the government selling it's stake if the price is right.

I fully agree. Michael O'Leary unlike many other businessmen pays his taxes here in Ireland and cares about our country. This proposal would create 1,000 new jobs, which in this environment is a good thing. Those people would pay taxes, which would increase the tax take. Aer Lingus would remain as a company under the Ryanair umbrella, and would give the company the chance at creating a long-haul low cost airline. In relation to competition we are in a global market, this would mean an Irish company would be a world leader in the aviation industry and this could only be a good thing.

Nodin

seamus wrote: »

1. It would mean that if you don't want to fly Ryanair, you don't have a great choice. I don't like Ryanair, it's like travelling in a cattle truck.

My Mother is a pensioner. I put her on Aer Lingus when shes flies (about 4 times a year) because theres no way she could handle being left high and dry by Ryanair. I've worked in the Travel business since 1992 and have heard far, far too many negative accounts concerning them.

As for O'Leary....hiring a few people in furry suits and having them turn up outside court with your HR manager to take the piss out of a union/staff taking action concerning Ryanair....not really my idea of "employer of the year".

Dancor

seamus wrote: »

2. Ryanair would use the Heathrow and JFK slots for far more profitable routes, such as Heathrow > JFK, leaving us poor Irish sods to fly into New Jersey to get to Manhattan.

Newark Airport is actually closer to Manhattan than JFK

Fratton Fred

Ryanair and EI may stay as seperate companies, but there is nothing to stop them fixing prices between them. OK it would give Ireland a nice big succesful airline, but O'Leary is just trying to play on national pride when he talks about that. It will drastically reduce the competition in flights between Ireland and London and I fail to see how that is a good thing.

whilst most people will fly Ryanair and admire O'Leary for what he has done, I don;t htink people trust him, cetainly not enough to give away the national flag carrier.

seamus

syklops wrote: »

With regard to the potential buyout of Aer Lingus by ryanair, Michael O'Leary has stated many times that the two companies would remain separated, and tbh that is what I would do.

I don't trust him. At all. He has nothing to lose by going back on what he said. He was speaking this morning and was talking straight away about cutting fuel surcharges, cutting fares and increasing the number of planes aerlingus would have. How is he going to do this if he isn't planning to make an "aerlingus lite".
He probably won't go to the extremes that he has with Ryanair flights, but he will cut back on the things which make an aer lingus more enjoyable - namely customer service and the non-rushed atmosphere.

In addition, if you're in a foreign country and your flight is cancelled, Ryanair will just leave you there. Aer Lingus won't. You pay for that peace of mind. There have been a couple of documented cases of Ryanair flights being cancelled, and then the cabin crew scuttling to a waiting bus, leaving the passengers in the airport with no Ryanair reps on the ground.

Ryanair is a cheap flight airline. It has brought air travel to those who could not afford it and has done more for Irish economics and Irish tourism than anyone else. Alot of people say they dont like ryanair because it is like a cattle cart. Well if its a case of travelling by cattle cart or not travelling, most people will choose the former. Myself included.

I'm absolutely not bemoaning their success, not at all. He's done great work for them. And I do believe that if Ryanair hadn't come in and shaken up the whole market, we'd have a lot less carriers now, all charging much higher prices. People were fed up with the airlines charging an arm and a leg and not bothering to compete with eachother.
Ryanair forced competition into the market and they've to be applauded for that. But that doesn't mean I want them running the market

We currently have more millionaires per head of population than many other european countries, so if I were Michael O'leary I would create the opposite of Ryanair in Aer Lingus. Luxury seating, free glass of champers when you board, the works, but you will pay for it. If ryanair were to buy Aer Lingus, they would be able to start trans-atlantic flights for ryanair, and keep trans-atlantic flights for Aer Lingus, and the consumer could then have the choice of cattle cart to New York for half nothing or luxury air travel with Aer Lingus.

I don't think luxury flights are actually any kind of lucrative market. Anyone flying on business tends to put their flight costs on the business expenses, and €5k return flights to New York look bad on a revenue return. Once you go higher up the chain, you get into the realms of people who either have access to a charter jet, or who avail of the stunning first class facilities still provided by the likes of BA. I just don't think there's enough demand there for a luxury flight.

I do however think there's demand for flights where you don't necessarily get pampered, but where you're at least treated like you're not just another piece of luggage.

dancor wrote: »

Newark Airport is actually closer to Manhattan than JFK

But it's JFK

LordSutch

What struck me about peoples attitudes on Q & A was the way the panalists + the audience (all of them bar one) seemed to look at Aer Lingus through Rose tinted spectacles, ah sure I love to be greeted by those lovely Air Stewardesses in 'Green' Irish uniforms . . . :rolleyes:

It was was almost like some kind of 1950s Irish Mist took hold of everyone in the Studio.

djpbarry

syklops wrote: »

If ryanair were to buy Aer Lingus, they would be able to start trans-atlantic flights for ryanair, and keep trans-atlantic flights for Aer Lingus, and the consumer could then have the choice of cattle cart to New York for half nothing or luxury air travel with Aer Lingus.

No middle ground? So if I don't want to be treated like a piece of cargo, I have to pay top dollar? No way.

Pride Fighter wrote: »

In relation to competition we are in a global market, this would mean an Irish company would be a world leader in the aviation industry and this could only be a good thing.

Sorry, you mention competition there; surely a merger of Ryanair and Aer Lingus, resulting in a virtual monopoly on the Irish aviation market, would be bad for competition, no?

Camelot wrote: »

What struck me about peoples attitudes on Q & A was the way the panalists + the audience (all of them bar one) seemed to look at Aer Lingus through Rose tinted spectacles, ah sure I love to be greeted by those lovely Air Stewardesses in 'Green' Irish uniforms . . . :rolleyes:

Well, I for one would be very sorry to see Aer Lingus go, mainly because it would mean I'd be stuck with Ryanair, but also because Aer Lingus are one of the better airlines I've flown with. They offer very good value for money and, as seamus has already said, they're very unlikely to leave you high and dry should something go wrong.

Liam Byrne

seamus wrote: »

2. Ryanair would use the Heathrow and JFK slots for far more profitable routes, such as Heathrow > JFK, leaving us poor Irish sods to fly into New Jersey to get to Manhattan.

Aer Lingus have already proven that they're at least - if not more - capable of shafting us by pulling out of Shannon for a loss-making route from Belfast.

If the Government had shown leadership with their shareholding on that issue, I would be against the sale, as having a Government shareholding would protect our rights to some extent.

But since they refuse to use their shareholding and vote to protect us, then we may as well get something (i.e. cash) out of the shareholding.

Sell it - fast!

ednwireland

o'leary will put up prices out of ireland if the two airlines merge he's a businessman making returns for his share holders ffs. thats it, no national pride nothing. look at the prices from the uk to ireland and booking the same flights the other way. creating a monoply run by ryanair will do nothing for irish consumers apart from reduce choice and increase fares pure and simple.

Jack Sheehan

1. An Irish Aviation monopoly? No thanks.

2. Ryanair in charge of said monopoly? No thanks.

SeanW

djpbarry wrote: »

No middle ground? So if I don't want to be treated like a piece of cargo, I have to pay top dollar? No way.

That's exactly what Mickey O Leary has in mind.
He said as much here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=94GJnjvj_3U