Jesus. It's actually happening....

Savman

Now this, I gotta see.

Performmance 2008
150 over 2 days over 4 stages
@ Whelans & The Vllage Dec 28th & 29th

The show will start on Dec 28th with two stages at whelans.
There will be an all ages day show from 10.30am to 6pm
and an over 18's night gig from 7pm to 1.30am

On the 29th we will have the same times, but also two other stages at the
Village. Which will see over 150 Acts play over the two days.

http://www.bebo.com/performance2008

You may remember the discussion a while back that spawned this sticky in the Bands & Muso's forum.

Who's engineering this gig I wonder, 14yo emo bands and out of tune metal guitar fest. Rappah.

Savman

the bebo page wrote:

Hey, we'd love to gig with you!
err I don't know about rules but we're 14...

Sure thing kids, please empty out your piggy banks and send a cheque to:
Promoter Dude, 742 Evergreen Terrace, Springfield

Soundman

Poor Noel and Gerry.

judas101

the best part is that all the bands have to shift at least 30 tickets before they play.

30 tickets x 10/15 euro price x 150 bands = lots of dough for <snip>

Neurojazz

There will probably be a desparate plea thread the day before as 'Charity gig needs engineer/lighting/security/etc'

Savman

Neurojazz wrote: »

There will probably be a desparate plea thread the day before as 'Charity gig needs engineer/lighting/security/etc'

And as 150 bands arrive up to the gig with that "who's bringing the drum kit" look

judas101 wrote:

the best part is that all the bands have to shift at least 30 tickets before they play.

30 tickets x 10/15 euro price x 150 bands = lots of dough for dodgy sheister

I'm sooo in the wrong game :eek:

unclebill98

Thats amazing.... Where are they all going fit!!!! while they wait to go on??

Not including the 30 people each band is bringing!

PaulBrewer

Id guess it's going to be some nightmare - as I said in the original post about this I think a team of hardened professionals with Pro bands wouldn't even attempt such a project - so I can only imagine the carnage that may ensue.

Might go down to see the fights;)

11811

HAHA Thats going to be bedlam!
How can you manage 20 bands or so on one stage in a day?
Soundcheck's going to be fun!

Savman

Cuddleworthy wrote: »

Soundcheck's going to be fun!

Something like this I'd imagine.

egan007

Wow it's the Music Nazi Thread.

11811

egan007 wrote: »

Wow it's the Music Nazi Thread.

Savman

egan007 wrote: »

Wow it's the Music Nazi Thread.

Indeed, welcome fellow brethren.

raindog.promo

I was discussing this in college, with the point that it seems like a bad deal for bands (although they're signing up to it) and a very profitable deal for the promoter (everyone in the discussion seemed to have had a bad experience with him).

Someone suggested informing revenue of the profits to be had at this gig. Proper order of course, taxes need to be paid on earnings.

studiorat

come back Adian Walsh all is forgiven...

I see on the bebo they are still falling over themselves to get to play and pay obviously.

I really despise these people who leech off people with talent to make their money.

raindog.promo

studiorat wrote: »

I see on the bebo they are still falling over themselves to get to play and pay obviously.
I really despise these people who leech off people with talent to make their money.

With talent, but no common sense. How can the bands see that in any way possible as a good deal?

studiorat

All they see is playing in the village or whealans it appeals to their sense of self-importance. Even 10 bands on a stage during a show is a daft idea, no-one is even going to remember two or three of them even if they are any good.

PaulBrewer

Now if all 150 bands all played at the same time, say 'Smoke on the Water' ..... I'd go to that ...

raindog.promo

Quincy Jones is on the phone. He has a charity song he wants them to sing for the occasion...

Savman

raindog.promo wrote: »

Quincy Jones is on the phone. He has a charity song he wants them to sing for the occasion...

Feed The Promoter, Let Him Know It's Christmas Time?

Alter-Ego

They neglect to inform bands on the website about the whole pay for 30 tickets at €10 a ticket. You get to keep ticket money after 40 tickets.

How much does it cost to book Whelans+The Village over 2 days and nights?

In theory, if they get 150 bands then thats €45,000 - Venue Rental.

11811

Alter-Ego wrote: »

They neglect to inform bands on the website about the whole pay for 30 tickets at €10 a ticket. You get to keep ticket money after 40 tickets.

How much does it cost to book Whelans+The Village over 2 days and nights?

In theory, if they get 150 bands then thats €45,000 - Venue Rental.

So the band has to pay 300 euro for what'll be about 15 mins up on stage?
Jesus....talk about getting done.

studiorat

bets on the venues closing ateleven and charging in again for the club?

PaulBrewer

Cuddleworthy wrote: »

So the band has to pay 300 euro for what'll be about 15 mins up on stage?
Jesus....talk about getting done.

But you get to play to 4 and a half thousand people in Whelan's ...

11811

PaulBrewer wrote: »

But you get to play to 4 and a half thousand people in Whelan's ...

Ah in that case...:pac:

PaulBrewer

Cuddleworthy wrote: »

Ah in that case...:pac:

That's a LOT of acne ...

raindog.promo

I'm surprised they haven't wangled a sponsorship deal from clearasil so.

The income tax thing is the way to go.

Jammyc

Played this before....whoa, definitly a no go...never again

Yer man organisin it..wont say his name, a money guzzler if I ever saw one

I felt terrible selling tickets, I mean like Hell let anyone play so chances are people are payin like a 10 to see like 4 **** bands and go home, plus whatever it costs to get to/eat in town..


booernns...


join me? Cmon, everbody! BOOERRNNNSS!!

raindog.promo

Boo-urns!

jtsuited

jaysus i thought the 'pay to play' thing died years ago. clearly not.

booo-urrrns.

raindog.promo

pay to play is one thing. This is "rape to play."

On the subject of pay to play. I don't understand the attitude about it.
A band refuses to "pay to play", but venues aren't paying bands to play either (except "The Mezz" as far as I know).
A venue still needs to be rented to have a gig, advertising needs to be arranging and backline too.

Someone's got to pay for this. I've put on a few gigs and in those cases it was me paying. If the gigs had bombed that was me out money, and no one would have compensated me. If money was made, it wouldn't have been an awful lot.

I suppose i'm saying the band is gonna "pay to play" to arrange a gig and all that it entails. If someone else is doing it for them, then they're providing a service and people who provide a service are usuallly paid to do so.

I don't have an axe to grind, and I in no way agree with this performance 08 gig either.
What exactly do bands think "pay to play" means?

Alter-Ego

A solution is bands getting together and organising the gigs themselves. Take the risk and take the profits.

jtsuited

raindog.promo wrote: »

pay to play is one thing. This is "rape to play."

On the subject of pay to play. I don't understand the attitude about it.
A band refuses to "pay to play", but venues aren't paying bands to play either (except "The Mezz" as far as I know).
A venue still needs to be rented to have a gig, advertising needs to be arranging and backline too.

Someone's got to pay for this. I've put on a few gigs and in those cases it was me paying. If the gigs had bombed that was me out money, and no one would have compensated me. If money was made, it wouldn't have been an awful lot.

I suppose i'm saying the band is gonna "pay to play" to arrange a gig and all that it entails. If someone else is doing it for them, then they're providing a service and people who provide a service are usuallly paid to do so.

I don't have an axe to grind, and I in no way agree with this performance 08 gig either.
What exactly do bands think "pay to play" means?

i meant pay to play as in all bands on a lineup pay the promoter or person running the gig, to play.
Not actually the venue rental.

there was a lot of it going on in dublin about 8-10 years ago.

raindog.promo

How much would they have to pay on average?

If you're not expected to bring an audience and are going to play on front of an established audience, then it may be reasonable to have to pay for it. If you're being asked to pay for anything, you have to ask what it is you're paying for and decide whether it's worthwhile or not.

support bands these days have to usually "buy on" to big tours. I'm not saying i agree with it, but it happens at all levels, not just young bands.

Bands could band together and do the thing themselves, in my experience, a lot of bands on stage are kings. Off stage, they're incredibly unreliable and unorganised and worse. Not all, but a lot of them.

I've headlined at gigs that the bands playing had organised, where the other band knew the score. The support band went out and got ****faced with all their mates the night before, turned up late, hungover to the 9's to soundcheck, and feck all of their mates turned up to the gig, being broke or too hungover to attend.

In the end, the gig made a loss of 250 quid i think. Although the organisation of the gig from start to finish was all saying you'd do something and not doing it, and wehat was done was left till the last minute.

To make a major generalisation, a lot of bands expect something for nothing. And expect admiration from all around while behaving like a ****.

I've done sound engineering for gigs, been in a gigging band and promoted some gigs, so i've seen it from a few different perspectives.

Savman

raindog.promo wrote: »

To make a major generalisation, a lot of bands expect something for nothing. And expect admiration from all around while behaving like a ****.

Most definitely. Unfortunately though, that's the norm I'm afraid and decent, hard working acts are few and far between.

jtsuited

raindog.promo wrote: »

How much would they have to pay on average?

If you're not expected to bring an audience and are going to play on front of an established audience, then it may be reasonable to have to pay for it. If you're being asked to pay for anything, you have to ask what it is you're paying for and decide whether it's worthwhile or not.

support bands these days have to usually "buy on" to big tours. I'm not saying i agree with it, but it happens at all levels, not just young bands.

Bands could band together and do the thing themselves, in my experience, a lot of bands on stage are kings. Off stage, they're incredibly unreliable and unorganised and worse. Not all, but a lot of them.

I've headlined at gigs that the bands playing had organised, where the other band knew the score. The support band went out and got ****faced with all their mates the night before, turned up late, hungover to the 9's to soundcheck, and feck all of their mates turned up to the gig, being broke or too hungover to attend.

In the end, the gig made a loss of 250 quid i think. Although the organisation of the gig from start to finish was all saying you'd do something and not doing it, and wehat was done was left till the last minute.

To make a major generalisation, a lot of bands expect something for nothing. And expect admiration from all around while behaving like a ****.

I've done sound engineering for gigs, been in a gigging band and promoted some gigs, so i've seen it from a few different perspectives.

i know exactly where you're coming from, have been in bands that behaved disgracefully, and also have been let down by bands being idiots and all that.
the pay to play thing as i know it was where a promoter would put on a gig, get say 7 young bands to play for say 100 quid each and let them keep maybe half of the profits of the tickets they sell.
which would be sort of fair enough if the venue rental was high.
but here was the catch. a lot of these gigs were all-ages shows that were on during the day. the venue rental cost was tiny (because nobody's using the venue on a saturday afternoon), and because it was an all ages show the venue would make a killing on selling soft drinks.

A lot of the bigger venues would actually get soft drinks free from breweries so you're talking pure profit behind the bar selling fizzy drinks to teenagers.

So the venue costs were negligible, and these promoters were getting a guarantee of 700 quid on every gig. that's not including half the money from the tickets of each band.

now that is an unfair and hugely exploitative business model, and I know of 2 particular people who were involved in these rackets. in fact 1 of them was the one who let me in on the soft-drink-all-ages-show scheme.

raindog.promo

jtsuited wrote: »

i know exactly where you're coming from, have been in bands that behaved disgracefully, and also have been let down by bands being idiots and all that.
the pay to play thing as i know it was where a promoter would put on a gig, get say 7 young bands to play for say 100 quid each and let them keep maybe half of the profits of the tickets they sell.
which would be sort of fair enough if the venue rental was high.
but here was the catch. a lot of these gigs were all-ages shows that were on during the day. the venue rental cost was tiny (because nobody's using the venue on a saturday afternoon), and because it was an all ages show the venue would make a killing on selling soft drinks.

A lot of the bigger venues would actually get soft drinks free from breweries so you're talking pure profit behind the bar selling fizzy drinks to teenagers.

So the venue costs were negligible, and these promoters were getting a guarantee of 700 quid on every gig. that's not including half the money from the tickets of each band.

now that is an unfair and hugely exploitative business model, and I know of 2 particular people who were involved in these rackets. in fact 1 of them was the one who let me in on the soft-drink-all-ages-show scheme.

That is awful behaviour. boo-urns

But then again, what would bands pay to have a gig properly organised for them? At the end of the day, if everything's done right, advertised nicely, the band may just be ****e and not pull in enough punters either.

dav nagle

Been there done that worn the t shirt felt like an ass never again Aiden Walsh you can suck my d*** you are the bugger that started this!

PaulBrewer

raindog.promo wrote: »

support bands these days have to usually "buy on" to big tours. I'm not saying i agree with it,

What's not to agree with? Buying on to a tour gives you access to a bigger bands audience (Merch access too) and allows the band access to the main bands PA, some crew etc. It's a simple commercial deal, No?

raindog.promo

A more deserving but financially poorer band might be better for the crowd.

There's many pro's and con's to the issue. I haven't thought about it that much so stated i don't agree/disagree with it.

PaulBrewer

raindog.promo wrote: »

A more deserving but financially poorer band might be better for the crowd.

There's many pro's and con's to the issue. I haven't thought about it that much so stated i don't agree/disagree with it.

In what way 'more deserving'? I'm confused ...

raindog.promo

Superior songs, stage presence whatever, you decide.

Example: Independant produced band with arse hanging out of trousers, that are great Vs Major label backed turd band with oodles of money.

Which would you rather see?

Would buying onto tour, or even touring with a band (no buy-in) bring in any financial wealth for the opening band? (and i don't mean from secondary sources, such as raise in cd sales, merchandising, etc)

PaulBrewer

Completely unrealistic proposition!

Gigs aren't a Social Service where one band 'deserves' a support and another doesn't.

Support tour bands are usually on the same label and our management and/or have a relationship with the promoter.

i.e it's a business, just like the real world!

jtsuited

raindog.promo wrote: »

Would buying onto tour, or even touring with a band (no buy-in) bring in any financial wealth for the opening band? (and i don't mean from secondary sources, such as raise in cd sales, merchandising, etc)

As far as I remember (and I'm open to correction on this), Weezer when they supported the Cranberries on a European tour a few years back actually made a profit through merchandise at the gigs.

raindog.promo

PaulBrewer wrote: »

Completely unrealistic proposition!

Gigs aren't a Social Service where one band 'deserves' a support and another doesn't.

Support tour bands are usually on the same label and our management and/or have a relationship with the promoter.

i.e it's a business, just like the real world!

So there's never been cases of support bands on a big tour there because a lead member of the main band lliked them and wanted them there.

There's a weird mix in music and business, many (usually poor) people doing it for the love of the music and others doing it for the money and others doing it for both, so really it's not a "completely unrealistic proposition". Unlikely perhaps.

jtsuited

raindog.promo wrote: »

Superior songs, stage presence whatever, you decide.

Example: Independant produced band with arse hanging out of trousers, that are great Vs Major label backed turd band with oodles of money.

Which would you rather see?

Would buying onto tour, or even touring with a band (no buy-in) bring in any financial wealth for the opening band? (and i don't mean from secondary sources, such as raise in cd sales, merchandising, etc)

i was in a band that toured with the revs a few years back while they were doing every student gig up and down the country (and packin the venues to max capacity every night). It was an astounding success for us as pretty much everywhere had us back on our own at some stage.
Big support slots are absolutely invaluable to a band. hence the reason many agree to pay for it.

raindog.promo

Did you buy onto the tour? Were you on the same label? How did it come about that you opened for them?

PaulBrewer

jtsuited wrote: »

As far as I remember (and I'm open to correction on this), Weezer when they supported the Cranberries on a European tour a few years back actually made a profit through merchandise at the gigs.

Interesting.

However support band tours would rarely make money.
Often tours themselves may not generate money, especially if the band is only breaking through.

The tour is to sell the CD which is to promote the tour and so it goes.

I recall a coast to coast 2 sleeper bus tour I did in the 90's with a band that was Top 100 in the US that cost $119,000 after everything!

And they sold out practically everywhere, Headlining!

raindog.promo

There's a good steve albini essay called "the trouble with music" or to a title to that extent which details how ****ed financially the band are after touring. It's an interesting read.

PaulBrewer

raindog.promo wrote: »

So there's never been cases of support bands on a big tour there because a lead member of the main band lliked them and wanted them there.

Who said that?

The music business is full of people who love music as well as people who don't.

My point is there's nothing wrong with selling a support slot.

The Music Business IS sometimes about Music but it's ALWAYS about business.

The sooner more people realise that the sooner there'll be less casualties.

I think that's good for all.

krd

studiorat wrote: »

come back Adian Walsh all is forgiven...

I see on the bebo they are still falling over themselves to get to play and pay obviously.

I really despise these people who leech off people with talent to make their money.

Please please say what you want about theses kids -- talent is a very rare.

If any of these kids had actually any talent then there blistering hot demos would be flying around, and they would be packing places with zero promotion.

The truth is they're all little rich kids, who think that talent is something that can be bought along with custom fenders (or those mini korgs -- none of them know how to use -- like the fat girl out of fight like apes -- ).

The songshark ripping them off is true rock and roll. If only he could release a record.

Hundreds of bands,,,, and not even one can produce a single simple 3 minutes that anyone would want to hear twice -- or even once.

Talent -- rich kids are just *****