Harmonic Mixing

MikeHoncho

Just interested to see if any of the Dj's on here make a conscious effort to mix in key? I think it’s something that comes pretty naturally after a while and a lot of Dj’s who say you don’t need to do it probably more often than not are doing it without realizing.

Since I started back messing around with decks etc over the last few months ive been frustrated with how bad I have become after a few years hiatus. I've started making a more conscious effort to mix in key and have seen an instant improvement. I think its as important as beatmatching to be honest.

Executive Steve

MikeHoncho wrote: »

Just interested to see if any of the Dj's on here make a conscious effort to mix in key? I think it’s something that comes pretty naturally after a while and a lot of Dj’s who say you don’t need to do it probably more often than not are doing it without realizing.

Since I started back messing around with decks etc over the last few months ive been frustrated with how bad I have become after a few years hiatus. I've started making a more conscious effort to mix in key and have seen an instant improvement. I think its as important as beatmatching to be honest.

mixing in key is just a posh way of saying "play tunes that work well together"

just learn your tunes, learn what to play and when and you won't really need to intellectualise it imo - unless you're at the stage where you're spending 200 euro a month on records as well as getting sent 20-30 pre-release tunes and you're doing six gigs in a weekend and you really need to cobble together something on the fly then practice should sort it out

there IS software to calculate what key a tune is in but unless you have more records than you have time to practice in then it's pretty much unneccesary

Zascar

Yeah I'm the same as you - when I am totally out of practice I might throw on a tune and realize it is not suited when its too late, but normally you'll just kinda know if the tracks are not going to sound good together and you'll choose something else.

When I started mixing I remember it was fairly regular that a mix would sound horrbile due to clashing keys, now it rarely happens - but I don't conciously think about it.

pallepille

i find when playing more techy stuff it never really becomes an issue, can become slightly more of a problem when playing more housey stuff for me,,if im unsure, in my head id usually try hear a little bit of the track currently playin live (bass/riff)together with a bit of the one im about to mix into it. before i actually play it.Thats bout as far as i go with it..............................Having said that ive heard sets thats are properly harmonically mixed and when done right its actually sick (mixing a track with a key thats say a fifth above the last track can create big energy etc, or mixing down to drums on both tracks and then purposely changing key with the next...quite savage)

MikeHoncho

Im gonna stick at it for a while. I think its probably the quickest way im gonna get my "feel" back. Hopefully I wont even have to think about it soon.

jtsuited

woah woah woah. two records in the same key is not two records that work together.
it's two records that are in the same key.

you can play any record which is either the dominant, sub-dominant, relative minor, etc of the current record and it'll be 'harmonic mixing'. not just in the same key.

it is easy enough to go on instinct alone though if you've got a musical ear, and hear that there's no dissonance.

but then again a lot of people are technically tone deaf. and i'm sure plenty of dj's do not have a note in their head.

MikeHoncho

jtsuited wrote: »

woah woah woah. two records in the same key is not two records that work together.
it's two records that are in the same key.

you can play any record which is either the dominant, sub-dominant, relative minor, etc of the current record and it'll be 'harmonic mixing'. not just in the same key.

I know this. My B2 in leaving cert music has stood to me. Maybe the topic title is misleading. By "In Key" I did not mean sticking to the same key. Just having the musical knowledge to know hey this track is in such a key so what would sound great is if I can bring in a track in any other relevant keys to this one rather than just sticking something on and hoping for the best.

Helix

harmonic mixing is a buzz phrase for people who havent a ****in notion what theyre talking about

if you dont know within 15 seconds of putting a track onto the cueing deck whether itll work harmonically with the track playing then youre not cut out to be a dj, or youre deaf

one or the other

it either sounds pleasant or it sounds absolutely horrendous

if you know your tunes you know what works and why, simple

seannash

god this old chestnut.
lets admit it folks the majority of people mix outros and intros here(nothing wrong with that)so for the most part they dont overlap basslines or melodies and tend to only overlap drums.
now i know drums are tuned and **** but for the most part you wont get clashs when you overlap drums so most people wont have to worry about it.
for those who do overlap ****,you should be able to tell by ear,but i think with the digital age most people lost the need to know there tracks,especially now that theres programmes that beatmatch for you.unlike in the vinyl age obviously.
ive never liked mixed in key,find out what works for you by experimenting.
mik is nudging you towards a certain block of tracks at a certain time.this is wrong imo.play the track you want to play and dont play it because its harmonically correct.
you should reach a point where you can mix whatever tracks you want whenever you want without worrying about what a programmes says.
this whole djing thing is slowly tuning into an automated jukebox:D

MikeHoncho

Helix wrote: »

harmonic mixing is a buzz phrase for people who havent a ****in notion what theyre talking about

if you dont know within 15 seconds of putting a track onto the cueing deck whether itll work harmonically with the track playing then youre not cut out to be a dj, or youre deaf

one or the other

it either sounds pleasant or it sounds absolutely horrendous

if you know your tunes you know what works and why, simple

I kinda knew this topic was going to get this reaction. Read my first post again as I said most good Dj's are just doing this naturally themselves.

DarkJager

I find its easier to do harmonic mixing with trance, mainly when you've got 2 breakdowns of perfect length and melody. I wouldn't be one to overdo it (people want to dance, not feel blissed out every 3 -4 minutes because the dj can't beatmatch as well ) but when you get it right and with the right songs, its great for turning out a darker or more euphoric mood on the mix.

seannash

DarkJager wrote: »

I find its easier to do harmonic mixing with trance, mainly when you've got 2 breakdowns of perfect length and melody. I wouldn't be one to overdo it (people want to dance, not feel blissed out every 3 -4 minutes because the dj can't beatmatch as well ) but when you get it right and with the right songs, its great for turning out a darker or more euphoric mood on the mix.

im confused,are you mixing out at the breakdowns.in general the second breakdown is the best one in trance and generally producers hold back some tricks in the first breakdown to allow the second one to be bigger and better.
plus mixing out at the breakdown is a no no for me,no matter what genre

DarkJager

seannash wrote: »

im confused,are you mixing out at the breakdowns.in general the second breakdown is the best one in trance and generally producers hold back some tricks in the first breakdown to allow the second one to be bigger and better.
plus mixing out at the breakdown is a no no for me,no matter what genre

As a rule of thumb, I generally won't mix out during the breakdowns. However, if I have one "not so great" tune that has a long enough breakdown and I'd like to slow things for a minute or two, I will use that to blend the next tune in (which is usually the first breakdown of the second track if you get me )

seannash

DarkJager wrote: »

As a rule of thumb, I generally won't mix out during the breakdowns. However, if I have one "not so great" tune that has a long enough breakdown and I'd like to slow things for a minute or two, I will use that to blend the next tune in (which is usually the first breakdown of the second track if you get me )

yeah get ya(less of the winking mate:D)
still think it shouldnt be done,its like a cheap trick or something.if you dont like the track dont play it,then you wont be faced with these situations.even if the crowd doesnt go for it after the first breakdown,the second buildup might change there mind.
but i dont play trance anymore,if i did id be mixing out alot as all the tracks are,to use your words,not so great:D

DarkJager

seannash wrote: »

yeah get ya(less of the winking mate:D)
still think it shouldnt be done,its like a cheap trick or something.if you dont like the track dont play it,then you wont be faced with these situations.even if the crowd doesnt go for it after the first breakdown,the second buildup might change there mind.
but i dont play trance anymore,if i did id be mixing out alot as all the tracks are,to use your words,not so great:D

Fine no more winks, you can have this instead :mad:

I don't agree with 2 of your points there man. Firstly, its not a case of not liking the track, I might just throw it on to get to the breakdown which will lead to my next track. It has worked very well on many occasions, but I accept at the same time, it can go horribly wrong as well. Guess its down to how good the dj is at the end of the day.

And secondly....I'm not sure what style of trance you played/listen to but to call all of it "not so great" is not only completely off the mark, its completely unbased as well.

seannash

DarkJager wrote: »

Fine no more winks, you can have this instead :mad:

I don't agree with 2 of your points there man. Firstly, its not a case of not liking the track, I might just throw it on to get to the breakdown which will lead to my next track. It has worked very well on many occasions, but I accept at the same time, it can go horribly wrong as well. Guess its down to how good the dj is at the end of the day.

And secondly....I'm not sure what style of trance you played/listen to but to call all of it "not so great" is not only completely off the mark, its completely unbased as well.

okay i should have said in my opinion trance music is not so great.but yeah i was deeply invloved with it a few years ago.ive got the huge stack of vinyl to prove it ha ha.so for me its not off the mark as its my opinion.
now im not bashing your djing skills at all here but to put a track on just so you can get to another track is a bit silly.
it seems like its something you preplanned and i guess im just at a point where i dont preplan things.
again im not questioning your skills as a dj at all and im not trying to be confrontational at all just giving my opinion.:)

DarkJager

seannash wrote: »

okay i should have said in my opinion trance music is not so great.but yeah i was deeply invloved with it a few years ago.ive got the huge stack of vinyl to prove it ha ha.so for me its not off the mark as its my opinion.
now im not bashing your djing skills at all here but to put a track on just so you can get to another track is a bit silly.
it seems like its something you preplanned and i guess im just at a point where i dont preplan things.
again im not questioning your skills as a dj at all and im not trying to be confrontational at all just giving my opinion.:)

I wasn't bashing your opinion or anything man, I'm just skeptical when trance gets slated (its usually the scumbag side of the genre that brings that on). There are far more gems of tracks in the trance genre than its given credit for.

I suppose as DJ's we all have different tricks and different ways of doing things. I'm not saying I just throw on a **** track so I can get to the next one, its usually because during the bedroom dj'ing the mix of the 2 records went perfectly and I feel satsified enough with it to drop it into the set.

seannash

DarkJager wrote: »

I wasn't bashing your opinion or anything man, I'm just skeptical when trance gets slated (its usually the scumbag side of the genre that brings that on). There are far more gems of tracks in the trance genre than its given credit for.

I suppose as DJ's we all have different tricks and different ways of doing things. I'm not saying I just throw on a **** track so I can get to the next one, its usually because during the bedroom dj'ing the mix of the 2 records went perfectly and I feel satsified enough with it to drop it into the set.

i hear ya,i still really like all my old trance but the new stuff im not too pushed about the new stuff,but my attention has shifted from it so maybe im not listening to the best stuff