Outer City Bypass

Iwannahurl

It is and it isn't (a whole new thread).

It's certainly a good example of the deep-seated structural issues that have combined to ensure that we are the second most car-dependent country in the EU, with levels of sprawl comparable to that in the US and Australia.

Perhaps within the EU only UK cities can beat ours for car modal share.

School travel is a core part of it, partly because of acute traffic congestion but also because the utterly stupid levels of car dependence are creating generation after generation of children for whom walking, cycling and taking the bus are unimaginable concepts. We didn't get into our local school because of patently nonsensical enrolment policy. Nominally Catholic children are being driven in droves less than 1 km to the school, while we cycle 3 km to another Catholic school which did offer a place, purely because they wanted to keep their numbers up. Of course everyone drives there too, including teachers living less than 1 km from their place of work. Completely irrational, and completely normal. A bit like religion itself, come to think of it.

crusier

Iwannahurl wrote: »

It is and it isn't (a whole new thread).

It's certainly a good example of the deep-seated structural issues that have combined to ensure that we are the second most car-dependent country in the EU, with levels of sprawl comparable to that in the US and Australia.

Perhaps within the EU only UK cities can beat ours for car modal share.

School travel is a core part of it, partly because of acute traffic congestion but also because the utterly stupid levels of car dependence are creating generation after generation of children for whom walking, cycling and taking the bus are unimaginable concepts. We didn't get into our local school because of patently nonsensical enrolment policy. Nominally Catholic children are being driven in droves less than 1 km to the school, while we cycle 3 km to another Catholic school which did offer a place, purely because they wanted to keep their numbers up. Of course everyone drives there too, including teachers living less than 1 km from their place of work. Completely irrational, and completely normal. A bit like religion itself, come to think of it.

We have the climate for walking kids to school every day alright! How irrational of them!

Zzippy

crusier wrote: »

We have the climate for walking kids to school every day alright! How irrational of them!

Funny, I don't remember it being a much more benign climate when I was walking 1.5km to school every day ~30 years ago

Mrs OBumble

crusier wrote: »

We have the climate for walking kids to school every day alright! How irrational of them!

Ahh, actually we do. There are very few days which are not suitable for walking, provided you have appropriate clothing.

McTigs

Zzippy wrote: »

Funny, I don't remember it being a much more benign climate when I was walking 1.5km to school every day ~30 years ago

this

I cycled from barna to the Jes everyday from when I was twelve and it was fcuking grand.... Most of my class walked or cycled too

Kids these days are ruined and it's their parents fault

Iwannahurl

crusier wrote: »

We have the climate for walking kids to school every day alright! How irrational of them!

Been there, done that, didn't wet the t-shirt (much): http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=90532385&postcount=399

Iwannahurl

McTigs wrote: »

I cycled from barna to the Jes everyday from when I was twelve and it was fcuking grand.... Most of my class walked or cycled too

Kids these days are ruined and it's their parents fault

That's impressive.

I only partly agree with your second point though. There are social, cultural and environmental factors at play also.

Targeting (or blaming) individuals never makes for good public policy and sustainable change at population level, which is what's urgently required. The better choice has to be made the easier choice.

That said, I see parents making silly choices on the school run every day, and it drives me bonkers.

McTigs

Iwannahurl wrote: »

That's impressive.

I only partly agree with your second point though. There are social, cultural and environmental factors at play also.

Targeting (or blaming) individuals never makes for good public policy and sustainable change at population level, which is what's urgently required. The better choice has to be made the easier choice.

That said, I see parents making silly choices on the school run every day, and it drives me bonkers.

Well somewhere along the line it was decided that cycling was "dangerous" (which it isn't, i cycle from salthill to renmore eveyday now...... and again, it's fcuking grand).

It's very disappointing what has happened cos cycling to school was a wonderful thing.... you learned to respect the road and other road users and there was a certain freedom to it that you don't being delivered in the back of a car.

Public policy of encouraging car use has played a big part and given drivers a huge sense of entitlement coupled with the arrival of the SVU making it perceived as unsafe to be out on the road in anything less than fortified tank.

Before anyone jumps in with "cyclist have a sense of entitlement too, break red lights etc etc...." I agree there are appalling cyclists out there everyday doing stupid things..... i can assure you they aren't the ones who have been on the road on a bike from a young age.

death1234567

Traffic non existent this morning...Mid term...

McTigs

death1234567 wrote: »

Traffic non existent this morning...Mid term...

I know it's hilarious, everyone in work commented on it as they walk in

joeKel73

death1234567 wrote: »

Traffic non existent this morning...Mid term...

No early Novena Masses today?

antoobrien

McTigs wrote: »

I know it's hilarious, everyone in work commented on it as they walk in

I'd ask the parents in our office but none of them are in.

I wonder what traffic will be like at five?

Mrs OBumble

It's also President's Day in the US, and the start of New Year in China. Both of these have a marked impact on the number of multi-national employees who go to work today and this week respectively.

So I predict light traffic at 5 as well.

KevR

antoobrien wrote: »

I'd ask the parents in our office but none of them are in.

This point has been overlooked by some people on here recently - parents taking time off work to line up with school holidays.

charlie_says

KevR wrote: »

This point has been overlooked by some people on here recently - parents taking time off work to line up with school holidays.

Aye, not a cheap time to go on holiday!

Delicia

Are we not losing the run of ourselves latching on to schoolkids? (the cheek of them) What schoolkids are causing tailbacks on the bridge at 5.30-6.30pm? I know lots of kids bus/cycle/walk to school. I also know lots of parents who car-pool (I'm one). The reality is that it's a catch 22, you'd be afraid to let your kids cycle due to the number of cars on the road. Believe it or not, 20-30 years ago there weren't as many cars on the road & it was safer & parents felt more comfortable allowing their little darlings to cycle/walk. Boleybeg NS ran a very successful walk to school campaign a couple of years ago & they are to be commended for it. But my heart was in my mouth driving those back roads & coming across a group of kids in high vis!

The reality is that at the moment we have 3 ways across town - the docks, Salmon Weir or Quincentennial. I used to regularly drive from Galway to Dublin & it would take me 2 hours from Dublin to Galway but another hour to get home. And I live in Knocknacarra...

Our traffic system is a joke because we think that all cars are heading/leaving Galway city whereas a significant proportion of traffic is either within their own 3k or trying to get out of town altogether!

McTigs

Delicia wrote: »

my heart was in my mouth driving those back roads & coming across a group of kids in high vis!

If your heart was in your mouth you were driving too fast

2rkehij30qtza5

There's a meeting being held in the Westwood Hotel on Thursday 19th February at 7pm. Anyone who might be affected by any routes on this road should attend as it's good for people to knock their heads together and come up with submissions. The closing date for submissions looms next week...on Friday 27th February.

what_traffic

Salvatore Shy Backache wrote: »

There's a meeting being held in the Westwood Hotel on Thursday 19th February at 7pm. Anyone who might be affected by any routes on this road should attend as it's good for people to knock their heads together and come up with submissions. The closing date for submissions looms next week...on Friday 27th February.

Thanks Salvatore Shy Backache - do you know if there is "An Agenda" for this meeting? Or will it be a local free for all? Presume many local politicians will be at it?

2rkehij30qtza5

what_traffic wrote: »

Thanks Galwaygirlee - do you know if there is "An Agenda" for this meeting? Or will it be a local free for all? Presume many local politicians will be at it?

Yes. It will be a very structured meeting and all who wish to contribute opinions, ideas and knowledge will be welcome to do so, regardless of opinions towards different routes.

antoobrien

Salvatore Shy Backache wrote: »

Yes. It will be a very structured meeting and all who wish to contribute opinions, ideas and knowledge will be welcome to do so, regardless of opinions towards different routes.

Is this the meeting being organized by the "N6 Action Group" that's mentioned in today's Galway Independent?

dloob

antoobrien wrote: »

Is this the meeting being organized by the "N6 Action Group" that's mentioned in today's Galway Independent?

Given that the meeting is being held at the same time and place I would say yes.
I like that they are very much against nimby-ism, its just that it happens to be be in their back yard.

antoobrien

dloob wrote: »

Given that the meeting is being held at the same time and place I would say yes.
I like that they are very much against nimby-ism, its just that it happens to be be in their back yard.

I like that they'll be very fair and open minded about all opinions.

dloob

antoobrien wrote: »

I like that they'll be very fair and open minded about all opinions.

Didn't see any quote from them about that?
Indeed they seem to have a pretty fixed opinion that all routes are bad so it should go back to the drawing board.
No real reason given for opposing all the routes either.

antoobrien

dloob wrote: »

Didn't see any quote from them about that?
Indeed they seem to have a pretty fixed opinion that all routes are bad so it should go back to the drawing board.
No real reason given for opposing all the routes either.

Ahem...

Salvatore Shy Backache wrote: »

Yes. It will be a very structured meeting and all who wish to contribute opinions, ideas and knowledge will be welcome to do so, regardless of opinions towards different routes.

dloob

Sure you can have any opinion on the routes as along as its against them all.

Iwannahurl

It appears to be just one group, though apparently representing diametrically opposed views:

The Galway N6 Action Group is holding a public meeting this evening at 7pm in the Westwood House Hotel in Dangan - which up to 500 people are expected to attend - to “formulate strong objections to all of the proposed routes” and demand the Galway City Council take “a serious look” at alternatives such as light rail or a tunnel under the River Corrib.

The meeting is the first major organised show of public opposition to the six proposed routes, which have incensed and bewildered Galwegians since their unveiling earlier this month, and which could see up to 130 homes demolished.

The group is also concerned the process “is being forced through with unnecessary haste”. Affected homeowners were presented with the route options three weeks ago. The closing date for people to lodge their views is February 27, along with an April deadline, called “ridiculously tight and arbitrary” by the group, for a final decision on a preferred route.

The new routes were drawn up by consultant ARUP, following a ruling by the European Court of Justice in 2013 that the original Galway City Outer Bypass could not go ahead as it impinged on bog cotton in Connemara and a section of protected limestone pavement.

“Surely the destruction of people’s homes, splitting local communities in half, and the massive disruption of their lives is of far more concern than a very small area of limestone,” said Colman Collins of the GN6AG. “The protection of limestone ledges, bog cotton, and butterflies is important – but the human habitat must come first.”

While public anger is mounting, political opposition is also gathering pace, with Fine Gael Galway West TD Brian Walsh raising the matter in Dáil Éireann last night. He described the new route options as “madness”, “completely unfeasible”, and a “path of destruction” that would devastate homes, businesses, and amenities.

“These are not feasible alternatives to the original plan because of the chaos they threaten to cause and the cost associated with the proposals,” Dep Walsh told the Dáil, before calling for the new routes to be “abandoned” and for “new options” outside the city area to be explored instead.

“The plans for this project are supposed to enhance the economic growth of the city – not cripple it,” he said. “We need to immediately review the current process in a way that puts people first.”

Source: http://www.advertiser.ie/galway/article/75712/major-show-of-public-opposition-to-new-ring-road-expected-tonight

crusier

Iwannahurl wrote: »

It appears to be just one group, though apparently representing diametrically opposed views:






Source: http://www.advertiser.ie/galway/article/75712/major-show-of-public-opposition-to-new-ring-road-expected-tonight

If he was around when the wheel was invented he'd have objected, if he thought there was votes in it!

youngrun

Is there a workable alternative to the 6 routes proposed by anyone yet? Reality is if a bypass is going to happen it is going to impact someone. If noone wants it anywhere and they all succeed then Galway is back to square one and the solutions left are to force cars off the roads via charging/tax/bans or just endure - or enjoy ? - the car journeys each day ?!

Iwannahurl

youngrun wrote: »

Is there a workable alternative to the 6 routes proposed by anyone yet? Reality is if a bypass is going to happen it is going to impact someone. If noone wants it anywhere and they all succeed then Galway is back to square one and the solutions left are to force cars off the roads via charging/tax/bans or just endure - or enjoy ? - the car journeys each day ?!

There's a rather bizzare opinion piece (Grassroots) on page 40 of today's Advertiser, accompanied, bizarrely, by a large photo of Mylie Cyrus.

The author, under the anonymous byline of The Insider, seems to believe that listening (ironically) to Mary Wilson's Drivetime on RTE Radio 1 while sitting in the car, alongside thousands of other motorists doing much the same thing, is "untenable". In his/her personal universe, the drive home in the evening is an "epic journey" lasting up to two hours:

The burgeoning debate over the new routes embodies so much of what is wrong with Irish society. Firm supporters of the Galway Bypass, who now find themselves in its path, suddenly think more people should cycle and that the traffic is not so bad.

Conversely, people who opposed the original route on the grounds that it would destroy an ecologically sensitive habitat will probably be sharpening their machete for bog cotton if they see bulldozers heading for their homes.

Both sides can probably rest easy, however, as the moribund original route has been replaced only with a selection of impossible alternatives – impossible due to their cost and impossible due to the scale of their disruption. It appears, therefore, that the plan for a bypass – like the traffic that it was intended to alleviate – is at an interminable standstill.

Instead of coasting home on a freely moving thoroughfare, we may as well get used to the warbling intonations of George Hook in the evening; and the gurgling respiration of Cathal MacCoille in the morning. The irony of listening to Mary Wilson’s Drivetime while stationary in a vehicle for up to two hours in the evening is untenable.

Until we decide to encroach on an ecologically sensitive habitat – or consent to damaging our own – we will have to rely on the radio to preserve our sanity during epic journeys home.

Other gems from the same "insider":

The plans involve the construction of a tunnel beneath the racecourse, which should ensure that beltless construction workers enjoy the view on Ladies’ Day so long as their wolf whistles do not distract the horses on the turf above.

It is interesting that the original route for the Galway Bypass was abandoned because it would disturb bog cotton and destroy its natural habitat. The new routes similarly threaten to destroy habitats and disturb another species, however: Galwegians.

Source: http://www.advertiser.ie/galway/article/75769/bog-cotton-or-peoples-homes-that-is-the-choice-as-wrecking-ball-looms

I don't know whether the "debate" about the "bypass" has to be endured by some, but I'm certainly enjoying it.