Outer City Bypass

what_traffic

youngrun wrote: »

Is there a workable alternative to the 6 routes proposed by anyone yet? Reality is if a bypass is going to happen it is going to impact someone. If noone wants it anywhere and they all succeed then Galway is back to square one and the solutions left are to force cars off the roads via charging/tax/bans or just endure - or enjoy ? - the car journeys each day ?!

The 7th option? Public Transport; but there are zero details on it - so it looks like they simply just did up a few charts on these 2 sheet's.

http://www.n6galwaycity.ie/wp-content/uploads/2015/01/PC2_Board-5-Possible-Public-Transport-Component-of-the-Transport-solution.pdf

http://www.n6galwaycity.ie/wp-content/uploads/2015/01/PC2_Board-7-Possible-Components-of-the-Transport-Solution.pdf

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youngrun wrote: »

Is there a workable alternative to the 6 routes proposed by anyone yet? Reality is if a bypass is going to happen it is going to impact someone. If noone wants it anywhere and they all succeed then Galway is back to square one and the solutions left are to force cars off the roads via charging/tax/bans or just endure - or enjoy ? - the car journeys each day ?!

yes, contrary to what a lot of people think, the original Outer Bypass is still a possibility. Very clear if you read the ECJ judgement. Just has to prove it's the best route possible and all other routes are not as good. Original route is much better considering that it doesn't knock 50+ houses and goes through less than 1 acre of SAC!

Iwannahurl

Salvatore Shy Backache wrote: »

yes, contrary to what a lot of people think, the original Outer Bypass is still a possibility. Very clear if you read the ECJ judgement. Just has to prove it's the best route possible and all other routes are not as good. Original route is much better considering that it doesn't knock 50+ houses and goes through less than 1 acre of SAC!

I'll bet there's a bunch of politicians and others (again) putting all their eggs in that particular basket.

Good luck with that one!

crusier

Iwannahurl wrote: »

I'll bet there's a bunch of politicians and others (again) putting all their eggs in that particular basket.

Good luck with that one!

But what about the snails and the bog cotton? We can knock 50 houses and effect peoples lives but can't offend a shower of do-gooders from an taisce who are mostly paid from the public purse!

youngrun

crusier wrote: »

But what about the snails and the bog cotton? We can knock 50 houses and effect peoples lives but can't offend a shower of do-gooders from an taisce who are mostly paid from the public purse!

Is it not the ECJ that rejected the original OB ? Is this route completely ruled out as a result ? What does the judgement state?

what_traffic

There is a feature on this on the Galway City Council website:

"
http://www.galwaycity.ie/news/170/238/N6-Galway-City-Transport-Project/
"

what_traffic

what_traffic wrote: »

There is a feature on this on the Galway City Council website:

"
http://www.galwaycity.ie/news/170/238/N6-Galway-City-Transport-Project/
"

The highlight of this feature piece is the following line:
"
The overall aim of the N6 Galway City Transport Project is to develop a sustainable solution to the congestion issues that exist in Galway City and to better connect the west of County Galway to the national road network.
"

antoobrien

youngrun wrote: »

Is it not the ECJ that rejected the original OB ? Is this route completely ruled out as a result ? What does the judgement state?

No the ECJ were not asked about the route, so they could not rule against the route.

what_traffic

http://www.rte.ie/news/2015/0219/681525-galway/

Zzippy

Anyone here at the meeting and can report on what was said?

dloob

Well they seem to want them to come up with new routes.
But sure given where the lake is no route is going to be radically different or avoid all the houses.

galwaycyclist

A fair amount of people spoke against the idea of a bypass at all. There was an interesting presentation that seemed to me to destroy the business case for the proposed road.

crusier

galwaycyclist wrote: »

A fair amount of people spoke against the idea of a bypass at all. There was an interesting presentation that seemed to me to destroy the business case for the proposed road.

Tell us about it?

Redhairedguy

All I can think reading this thread. :pac:

what_traffic

A good local twitter feed to follow is: @N6Action if you want to get a flavour of contributions from the local community affected by the proposed road routes.

Robbo

Redhairedguy wrote: »

All I can think reading this thread. :pac:

"There IS a Swansea...and other places"

Baggy Trousers

galwaycyclist wrote: »

A fair amount of people spoke against the idea of a bypass at all. There was an interesting presentation that seemed to me to destroy the business case for the proposed road.

Jaysus is this bypass ever going to get built? It's a joke.

KevR

galwaycyclist wrote: »

A fair amount of people spoke against the idea of a bypass at all. There was an interesting presentation that seemed to me to destroy the business case for the proposed road.

Can you elaborate on why there might be a lack of a business case? Who made this presentation?

Leo Varadker (when he was Minister for Transport) stated that the Galway Bypass offered the highest cost-benefit ratio of any planned road in the country! I am inclined to take his word for it - his department would have done balanced/neutral, fact based analysis. It is fair to say that NIMBYs and militant environmentalists would not be capable of delivering balanced/neutral, fact based analysis - their emotions will naturally get in the way and of course they will say that there is no business case. That is why I ask "who made this presentation"?

People are casually suggesting that there can and should be a major modal shift. I have asked, more than once, in the "N6 Galway City Transport Project" thread about the subsidy that would be required to operate an improved public transport system. Nobody has even attempted to answer my question. What are the financial implications of providing a public transport system that has levels of service good enough to justify not building any new roads?

As I have said before, I would have no issue with a few hundred million euro being spent on public transport infrastructure. It's the unknowns around long-term subsidy towards operating costs that make me feel very uneasy.

what_traffic

KevR wrote: »

People are casually suggesting that there can and should be a major modal shift. I have asked, more than once, in the "N6 Galway City Transport Project" thread about the subsidy that would be required to operate an improved public transport system. Nobody has even attempted to answer my question. What are the financial implications of providing a public transport system that has levels of service good enough to justify not building any new roads?

As I have said before, I would have no issue with a few hundred million euro being spent on public transport infrastructure. It's the unknowns around long-term subsidy towards operating costs that make me feel very uneasy.

What's the subsidy of maintaining motorways?
Apples and Oranges really

antoobrien

KevR wrote: »

As I have said before, I would have no issue with a few hundred million euro being spent on public transport infrastructure. It's the unknowns around long-term subsidy towards operating costs that make me feel very uneasy.

Like the approximate €60m PSO payments to Dublin bus this year, or the €392m in PSO payments & €65m capital payments made to them over the 2008 - 2012 time period.

Zzippy

KevR wrote: »

Can you elaborate on why there might be a lack of a business case? Who made this presentation?

Leo Varadker (when he was Minister for Transport) stated that the Galway Bypass offered the highest cost-benefit ratio of any planned road in the country! I am inclined to take his word for it - his department would have done balanced/neutral, fact based analysis. It is fair to say that NIMBYs and militant environmentalists would not be capable of delivering balanced/neutral, fact based analysis - their emotions will naturally get in the way and of course they will say that there is no business case. That is why I ask "who made this presentation"?

People are casually suggesting that there can and should be a major modal shift. I have asked, more than once, in the "N6 Galway City Transport Project" thread about the subsidy that would be required to operate an improved public transport system. Nobody has even attempted to answer my question. What are the financial implications of providing a public transport system that has levels of service good enough to justify not building any new roads?

As I have said before, I would have no issue with a few hundred million euro being spent on public transport infrastructure. It's the unknowns around long-term subsidy towards operating costs that make me feel very uneasy.

Well if the traffic data that was selectively quoted by an Arup engineer in the press last week was made available then people might be able to try a neutral fact-based analysis. But if they won't release the facts as part of a public consultation, then it's very hard for the public to do a fact-based analysis . And you would have to question why they only released a few graphics of routes, a couple of graphics of flowcharts that mean sweet FA, and zero data/costings to support any of the options presented...

KevR

what_traffic wrote: »

What's the subsidy of maintaining motorways?
Apples and Oranges really

Income from motoring not only covers the cost of maintaining all roads, it also contributes significantly towards a number of other services.

I haven't come across any recent figures but I remember 5 - 6 years ago reading that more than €7 Billion was collected through motoring related taxes in a 12 month period. Approximately €1.3 Billion was spent on road building and maintenance during the same 12 months.

According to publicpolicy.ie -

Where does your tax go?
An €83.60 spend on petrol incorporates €47.96 in taxes. This tax is spent as follows:

• €15.87 on Social Programmes
• €11.14 on Health
• €6.89 on Education
• €6.26 on Debt
• €7.79 on Other

Not to mention Motor Tax, VRT and VAT.

crusier

maybe its time cyclists paid a cycle tax and didn't leave it to motorists to fund these projects and then object from their high Nellie's while they weave easliy through gridlocked traffic!

galwaycyclist

crusier wrote: »

maybe its time cyclists paid a cycle tax and didn't leave it to motorists to fund these projects and then object from their high Nellie's while they weave easliy through gridlocked traffic!

We're already paying motor tax on our cars - you want us to pay twice although we are already freeing up space for you?

galah

I presume that people speaking against any form of bypass have not or will never sit in appalling Galway traffic for hours, inching their way across the city? Just because they don't happen to have a home in the West and happen to have a job in the East of the town? :rolleyes:

Loved the comparison on the news (gbfm i think), where someone said digging up the racecourse would be like pulling down the colosseum in Rome. Dramatic much? Lol.

Another smarter idea maybe would have been to make westside/seamus quirke that little bit wider, and put in a contraflow lane - so 2 lanes eastbound in the morning, plus bus lane, and then 2 lanes westbound in the evening, plus bus lane. But that would have required foresight, not something the road planners seem to have...

pleasant Co.

crusier wrote: »

maybe its time cyclists paid a cycle tax and didn't leave it to motorists to fund these projects and then object from their high Nellie's while they weave easliy through gridlocked traffic!

A bit too far off topic, reel 'er in

galwaycyclist

galwaycyclist wrote: »

We're already paying motor tax on our cars - you want us to pay twice although we are already freeing up space for you?

If I have two cars I have to tax them both, what's the difference? Motorbikes also free up space and they pay road tax.

The car will always be the weapon of choice for galway people as it suits travel around galway well not to mention people who commute in from outside the city who even if it was an option don't want the hassle of having to use public transport as is just far too restricted for people who want to go multiple places, get a boot load of shopping, visit someone off a bus route etc etc etc.
The sooner this bypass is built the better freeing up road space for thouse who need to drive into town and speeding up the travel of those who don't.

TerrorFirmer

galah wrote: »

Loved the comparison on the news (gbfm i think), where someone said digging up the racecourse would be like pulling down the colosseum in Rome. Dramatic much? Lol.
.

Brian Walsh. He said it would be akin to boarding up the Colosseum or draining the canals of Venice.

Was quote of the week for me anyway.

nuac

TerrorFirmer wrote: »

Brian Walsh. He said it would be akin to boarding up the Colosseum or draining the canals of Venice.

Was quote of the week for me anyway.

Talk about hyperbolé.

Anyhow aren't those canal tidal?

WallyGUFC

Obviously that comment about the Colosseum is a bit outrageous but tearing up the racecourse will have a massively detrimental impact on lots of business in Galway. Why does it have to be a dig and fill tunnel? Could they not bore under the racecourse?