Outer City Bypass

dubhthach

Sure isn't it a bored tunnel (for Blue route) as oppose to "cut and cover", the pink route would avoid the race course anyways.

WallyGUFC

Pink route still hits stables and car parking from what I can see, which would still render the racecourse out of action for 2 years according to the head of the course (Moloney?).

dubhthach

WallyGUFC wrote: »

Pink route still hits stables and car parking from what I can see, which would still render the racecourse out of action for 2 years according to the head of the course (Moloney?).

Bored tunnel under them, not cut and cover. Thence the fact that road is a in a cutting all way back to the M6. I'd imagine the impact on the stables would be no more than impact cause on surface during the Port Tunnel construction in Dublin.

Of course we don't know what sorta preparatory works would be done, for example if they went with pink route they might pay for relocation of any structures over it.

dubhthach

Dublin Port Tunnel TBM's did 10 meters a day, as far as I can see the tunnel (on the pink route) is about 500-600 meters. So 100 days per bore should do it, obviously if they have two TBM's they can do both bores in parallel.

Of course if I was CEO of the race course I'd complain as loud as possible, after all I might get a new stand or a multi-story carpark out of it for free!

crusier

WallyGUFC wrote: »

Obviously that comment about the Colosseum is a bit outrageous but tearing up the racecourse will have a massively detrimental impact on lots of business in Galway. Why does it have to be a dig and fill tunnel? Could they not bore under the racecourse?

Might be an opportunity to put in a water fence!

what_traffic

Jazmin Green Straightjacket wrote: »

If I have two cars I have to tax them both, what's the difference? Motorbikes also free up space and they pay road tax. motor tax.

Corrected this statement for you.
Yes Motorbikes do use space more efficiently. They are a solution to car traffic jams.
Recent article in the Connacht Tribune from SIMI data that only 21 NEW motorbikes were purchased in Galway in 2014. Tiny number really when compared with motorcars.

Iwannahurl

They're also propelled by heat engines burning fossil fuels, and can achieve very high speeds, which presumably makes a difference.

Electric motorbikes are on the way, I imagine, but will that prompt a modal shift to this particular form of transport?

We have electric bicycles already, of course. I used one last year while visiting very hilly Bern, Switzerland, and it was great. I had a quick look at a shop specialising in electric bikes; the quality and range was amazing. Curiously, the Swiss require larger electric bikes to be registered, and perhaps taxed, which I understand is something to do with their higher speed potential.

antoobrien

dubhthach wrote: »

Bored tunnel under them, not cut and cover.

That's not what I was told at the consultation, both Green & pink routes would be C&C tunnels and the stables would have to be demolished.

dubhthach

antoobrien wrote: »

That's not what I was told at the consultation, both Green & pink routes would be C&C tunnels and the stables would have to be demolished.

I'll take it from the person who was there, though plans have the green route purely in a cutting in that area, as oppose to tunnel.

Of course there's nothing stopping the provision of new stables during the preparatory stage in the area, that and they have close on 9 months between October meeting and next summer meet to get a good chunk of work done and dusted.

joeKel73

If they skip a September and October meeting (much less economic impact compared to the main Summer event) then surely they could complete the required work between two Summer meetings?

antoobrien

J o e wrote: »

If they skip a September and October meeting (much less economic impact compared to the main Summer event) then surely they could complete the required work between two Summer meetings?

Well seeing as the racecourse has two tunnels (one of which carries vehicle traffic) under the existing track that were developed without affecting racing, I don't see what the fuss is about.

I'd be more concerned about how any route would affect the drainage of the course, as it's a bit of a bowl.

what_traffic

antoobrien wrote: »

Well seeing as the racecourse has two tunnels (one of which carries vehicle traffic) under the existing track that were developed without affecting racing, I don't see what the fuss is about.

These are very small tunnels antoobrien. Probably around 200 square meters of track was affected by both tunnels. One can't compare with the proposed road tunnels . I can see exactly why there is a lot of opposition coming from the Horse racing community on this one.

antoobrien

what_traffic wrote: »

These are very small tunnels antoobrien. Probably around 200 square meters of track was affected by both tunnels. One can't compare with the proposed road tunnels . I can see exactly why there is a lot of opposition coming from the Horse racing community on this one.

The width of the entrance tunnel (off the N6) is at least two lanes wide - the requirement of a single bore of the proposed two bore tunnel.

?Cee?view

antoobrien wrote: »

... I don't see what the fuss is about...

The majority of the fuss seems to be made by the City Tribune, Galway Bay FM and the Race Course itself. I'm sure the common directorships (if you count the Race Committee as a quasi-directorship) between all three are entirely coincidental :rolleyes:

It's funny that other affected businesses aren't getting the same coverage.

antoobrien

?Cee?view wrote: »

The majority of the fuss seems to be made by the City Tribune, Galway Bay FM and the Race Course itself. I'm sure the common directorships (if you count the Race Committee as a quasi-directorship) between all three are entirely coincidental :rolleyes:

It's funny that other affected businesses aren't getting the same coverage.

Indeed, it's not like the proposed red route doesn't go directly through Dunnes (Headford Rd) and the Kingfisher Gym (NUIG), and what looks like a few more businesses towards the rear of Liosban.

death1234567

galwaycyclist wrote: »

There was an interesting presentation that seemed to me to destroy the business case for the proposed road.

How long was your presentation?

what_traffic

death1234567 wrote: »

How long was your presentation?

Is that the best you can come up with death1234567? :rolleyes:

what_traffic

antoobrien wrote: »

Indeed, it's not like the proposed red route doesn't go directly through Dunnes (Headford Rd) and the Kingfisher Gym (NUIG), and what looks like a few more businesses towards the rear of Liosban.

True - but neither of these facilities are so called "National Events". Galway Races / Galway get's major coverage Nationwide the last week in July every year without fail. Big money spinner for the local economy if one believes the stat's that is hurled out every year. Presume that's why it's been getting the media coverage it is getting?

dubhthach

what_traffic wrote: »

True - but neither of these facilities are so called "National Events". Galway Races / Galway get's major coverage Nationwide the last week in July every year without fail. Big money spinner for the local economy if one believes the stat's that is hurled out every year. Presume that's why it's been getting the media coverage it is getting?

Again how does a bored tunnel under the racetrack (blue option) affect the race meeting? Even in case of Pink/Green where the current stables would need to be demolished, it wouldn't affect the race meeting as more than likely "new stables" would be one of the preparatory conditions before work could start.

what_traffic

dubhthach wrote: »

Again how does a bored tunnel under the racetrack (blue option) affect the race meeting? Even in case of Pink/Green where the current stables would need to be demolished, it wouldn't affect the race meeting as more than likely "new stables" would be one of the preparatory conditions before work could start.

Talk to the racecourse manager on that one. He would know the facilities under his control.

Unrealistic

dubhthach wrote: »

I'll take it from the person who was there, though plans have the green route purely in a cutting in that area, as oppose to tunnel.

I asked about that at one of the consultations and the lady from Arup went off to check and came back to say that the green route would actually be a tunnel as well where it overlaps the pink route at the racecourse and the cutting was a misprint.

dubhthach

what_traffic wrote: »

Talk to the racecourse manager on that one. He would know the facilities under his control.

How about the President of NUIG or the General Manager of Dunnes Terryland? It's amazing how much coverage race course is getting particularly given it's not even used for 50 out of 52 weeks of the year.

Neither the pink or green route touch the current track. The blue route bores under the track in two locations (it also has to bore under the current access tunnel).

antoobrien

what_traffic wrote: »

True - but neither of these facilities are so called "National Events". Galway Races / Galway get's major coverage Nationwide the last week in July every year without fail. Big money spinner for the local economy if one believes the stat's that is hurled out every year. Presume that's why it's been getting the media coverage it is getting?

As I've already pointed out, the problem with managing the potential "disruption" to the racecourse is not nearly as big as it's being made out to be, after all they've developed tunnels - at least one of which is of the scale required for the blue route - in the past without impacting racing activities.

However replacing multiple businesses - two of the fairly large buildings - will be a severe headache.

dubhthach

Just cross posting from C&T, but I came across following presentation, which seems be one of few resources online with any data regarding traffic counts on various bridges in Galway:

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• Quincentenary Bridge: 36,000 vehicles/day
• Salmon Weir Bridge: 19,000 vehicles/day
• Wolf Tone Bridge: 22,000 vehicles/day
• O’Briens Bridge: 9,000 vehicles/day

Presentation given by Ciarán Hayes, Director of Services, Galway City Council

https://www.google.ie/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=4&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0CDEQFjAD&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ciht.org.uk%2Fdownload.cfm%2Fdocid%2F877A2F2D-87E2-4EFA-88B768AC5A8512AD&ei=fGXrVOj6FKSy7QbZ5YDQDQ&usg=AFQjCNG4ArVnEEtPRY0I9z5hzBGZAeq6_w&sig2=tUKBnzJC3biSZcwVv-GAJA

--

what_traffic

antoobrien wrote: »

However replacing multiple businesses - two of the fairly large buildings - will be a severe headache.

Do not disagree, would be a major headache all round.
I guess its down to probability? Racecourse is involved in 3 routes(possibly even 4) v's 1 for the NUIG GYM?

what_traffic

dubhthach wrote: »

How about the President of NUIG or the General Manager of Dunnes Terryland? It's amazing how much coverage race course is getting particularly given it's not even used for 50 out of 52 weeks of the year.

I don't think it's amazing at all and I have ZERO interest in horse racing.

galah

Maybe i'm a bit naive, but would they really, really demolish buildings such as the nuig gym and dunnes for this new road? Like, really?

dubhthach

galah wrote: »

Maybe i'm a bit naive, but would they really, really demolish buildings such as the nuig gym and dunnes for this new road? Like, really?

If they select the red route that's the proposal yes.

TerrorFirmer

?Cee?view wrote: »

The majority of the fuss seems to be made by the City Tribune, Galway Bay FM and the Race Course itself. I'm sure the common directorships (if you count the Race Committee as a quasi-directorship) between all three are entirely coincidental :rolleyes:

It's funny that other affected businesses aren't getting the same coverage.

dubhthach wrote: »

How about the President of NUIG or the General Manager of Dunnes Terryland? It's amazing how much coverage race course is getting particularly given it's not even used for 50 out of 52 weeks of the year.

We're actually comparing a gym and a supermarket to an internationally recognized annual event that is a hugely important part of Galway?

dubhthach

TerrorFirmer wrote: »

We're actually comparing a gym and a supermarket to an internationally recognized annual event that is a hugely important part of Galway?

Are you seriously considering that 600-1000 metres of bored tunnel (blue route) would disrupt race week when

(a) TBM bores on average of 10metres/day (as per Dublin Port Tunnel)
(b) Dept of bore won't cause any issues on surface

Likewise do you consider the relocation of the stables (if green/pink route selected) would impact an event that occupies 1 week out of total of 52 in a calendar year?

It's a wonder Leopardstown manage to survive at all when the M50 was built through a section of it.