Outer City Bypass

dubhthach

what_traffic wrote: »

Why you making excuses for them now? Do the general public not deserve the same? This is basic stuff - if I turned up to work with a presentation with out of date information would be laughed out the door.
http://www.n6galwaycity.ie/phase-2/bulletin-6-07-05-2015/

This is the NRA/Galway City Council who have responsibility for the existing N6 and they don't have a proper map showing the changes they made to four junctions. That is a joke.

If you had to do a presentation that involved licensing copyrighted maps that can only be sourced off a government agency (eg. the OS) ye get exactly the same map. No doubt the good citizens of Galway are tossing and turning in their beds due to presence of some "extinct" roundabouts. What's laughable is your churlish attitude.

Were you complaining about the equivalent maps when the M17/M18 + Tuam bypass was published? Or when the Ballinasloe to Galway map initial scheme overview map was published?

KevR

Iwannahurl wrote: »

Curious, isn't it?

Does she mean "let's just build this itsy bitsy teeny weeny expressway to fix the problems caused by decades of poor land use planning and failure to develop a sustainable transportation policy, and then we'll stop because we can't keep building more roads."

Somehow it reminds me of St. Augustine: "Lord, grant me chastity and continence, but not yet."

"Decades of poor land use" is a fairly damning statement! While planning in Galway may not be perfect, it sounds like you have a serious isssue with the very fabric of Galway City. Joking aside, would you not be far happier living in any of the European cities which you idolise because of their good public transport and cycling facilities? Maybe even Dublin would be preferable to you? There is an endless choice...

I for one love Galway EVERY aspect to the way of life here. I would move elsewhere if I felt strongly about cycling or using public transport in a densely developed town/city because that's just not Galway.

It would be like someone choosing to live in Los Angeles and then moaning non-stop about Los Angeles not being a carbon copy of New York City....... Move already!

Iwannahurl

What I love about Galway (the graveyard of ambition) is that there are people in the city who believe a €600 million expressway is needed to shorten their 15-minute car commute.

Hats off, and all that.

crusier

Iwannahurl wrote: »

What I love about Galway (the graveyard of ambition) is that there are people in the city who believe a €600 million expressway is needed to shorten their 15-minute car commute.

Hats off, and all that.

It was the same whinging when mutton island was being built, do gooders who love the sound of their own voices objecting to everything and anything and claiming they have galways interests at heart. The grave yard of ambition lies with serial objectors and our city councilers and those who blow into glaway and then decide they want no further development now that they have arrived!

zarquon

crusier wrote: »

It was the same whinging when mutton island was being built, do gooders who love the sound of their own voices objecting to everything and anything and claiming they have galways interests at heart. The grave yard of ambition lies with serial objectors and our city councilers and those who blow into glaway and then decide they want no further development now that they have arrived!

Don't forget the biggest hypocracy of all in the fact that the whingers will most certainly use the facilities with glee once they are in place.

It's a Mé Féin atitude. "I don't need the road therefore the city doesn't need the road! I want the money spent on what I want. The city needs what I need" Easy to say when you are conveniently close to schools, work, bus stops, etc and have full physical mobility. Everyone else who is not so conveniently positioned in life can just feck off according to the naysayers.

Pretending to have the greater interests of the city at heart but really just having their own interests and personal agendas at heart. Incredibly disingenuous behaviour displaying utter contempt for the people of the city and the city itself.

Mrs OBumble

crusier wrote: »

The grave yard of ambition lies with serial objectors and our city councilers and those who blow into glaway and then decide they want no further development now that they have arrived!

Well I'm a blow in who's delighted with the development that's occurred since I got here, especially the 409 bus, the Dublin Rd bus lane, the Claregalway bus lane, the revamp of all the city bus routes, the motorways enabling the non-stop bus to Dublin and Cork,the removal of roundabouts, the new 405 bus route (which has made my personal life very considerably better), the wider availability of craft beers, etc.

I think we need a 2nd bridge over the river for redundancy. But I don't think we need more roads, apart from to serve that. Because I'm worried about the planet, not just the city.

Crumbs868

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

Well I'm a blow in who's delighted with the development that's occurred since I got here, especially the 409 bus, the Dublin Rd bus lane, the Claregalway bus lane, the revamp of all the city bus routes, the motorways enabling the non-stop bus to Dublin and Cork,the removal of roundabouts, the new 405 bus route (which has made my personal life very considerably better), the wider availability of craft beers, etc.

I think we need a 2nd bridge over the river for redundancy. But I don't think we need more roads, apart from to serve that. Because I'm worried about the planet, not just the city.

But you live in the city centre, all transport revolves around the city centre so it's very easy to be satisfied with it as its on your doorstep.

What about families/people who can't afford (or want) the city centre life?

crusier

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

Well I'm a blow in who's delighted with the development that's occurred since I got here, especially the 409 bus, the Dublin Rd bus lane, the Claregalway bus lane, the revamp of all the city bus routes, the motorways enabling the non-stop bus to Dublin and Cork,the removal of roundabouts, the new 405 bus route (which has made my personal life very considerably better), the wider availability of craft beers, etc.

I think we need a 2nd bridge over the river for redundancy. But I don't think we need more roads, apart from to serve that. Because I'm worried about the planet, not just the city.

Any particular planet?

Zzippy

zarquon wrote: »

It's a Mé Féin atitude. "I need the road therefore the city needs the road! I want the money spent on what I want. The city needs what I need" Easy to say when you are conveniently close to schools, work, bus stops, etc and have full physical mobility. Everyone else who lives in the way of my new road can just feck off.

Pretending to have the greater interests of the city at heart but really just having their own interests and personal agendas at heart. Incredibly disingenuous behaviour displaying utter contempt for the people of the city and the city itself.

FYP. The irony of calling anyone against the road a Mé Féiner might be lost on you, when most people in favour of the road want it for personal reasons.

zarquon

Zzippy wrote: »

FYP. The irony of calling anyone against the road a Mé Féiner might be lost on you, when most people in favour of the road want it for personal reasons.

And people who are opposed are so mostly for personal reasons. I understand that some will be negatively affected by means of being uprooted and that is horrible and i don't need you changing my posts to that effect! . Unfortunately the whingers fought tooth and nail to protect a bit of bog with the effect that now more lives than originally planned are being affected. There is no irony only deceit. There are those who say that have the greater good in mind and they simply don't. People that say the status quo is fine for the city when really its only fine for them.

There were better options for the road that lessened the impact on those involved but the objectors who thought they had their way only made the impact on lives and cost worse.

I think most can agree that the city could not survive with only 4 ways to cross it and 3 of those being through narrow medievel city streets. Anyone that says the city in general will not be better off with the new road is a liar, plain and simple. There will be a minority who will be worse off though and they can thank the environmentalists for that who place the value of a piece of bog oak above that of human beings.

Zzippy

zarquon wrote: »

And people who are opposed are so mostly for personal reasons. I understand that some will be negatively affected by means of being uprooted and that is horrible and i don't need you changing my posts to that effect! . Unfortunately the whingers fought tooth and nail to protect a bit of bog with the effect that now more lives than originally planned are being affected. There is no irony only deceit. There are those who say that have the greater good in mind and they simply don't. People that say the status quo is fine for the city when really its only fine for them.

There were better options for the road that lessened the impact on those involved but the objectors who thought they had their way only made the impact on lives and cost worse.

I think most can agree that the city could not survive with only 4 ways to cross it and 3 of those being through narrow medievel city streets. Anyone that says the city in general will not be better off with the new road is a liar, plain and simple. There will be a minority who will be worse off though and they can thank the environmentalists for that who place the value of a piece of bog oak above that of human beings.

Calling people whingers because they don't agree with your viewpoint is just sad, really. One can equally call the people who want a road for a shorter commute whingers. Self-interest on both sides, so slagging people off for having a self interest that conflicts with yours actually is ironic. Having an adult debate and actually debating viewpoints has more merit than dismissing opposing viewpoints as whingers.

zarquon

Zzippy wrote: »

Calling people whingers because they don't agree with your viewpoint is just sad, really. One can equally call the people who want a road for a shorter commute whingers. Self-interest on both sides, so slagging people off for having a self interest that conflicts with yours actually is ironic. Having an adult debate and actually debating viewpoints has more merit than dismissing opposing viewpoints as whingers.

For some complaining and protesting is a hobby bordering on a profession. The same type of individual who will try and find a non existant link between the new road and Denis O'Brien. I have no problem calling militant protesters whingers. You'd might agree on another issue that the likes of Sweetman is a whinger but in the case where he serves a goal you also desire the same individuals become voices of reason and angels of light.

Im guessing from your posts that you or someone you know is on the path of the road and therefore you lack objective critical analysis of the project and the serial whingers who managed to save a few flowers and a bit of limestone at your cost. Why you would defend such individuals is beyond me but being highly subjective and ergo emotive can cloud one's judgement

KevR

Iwannahurl wrote: »

What I love about Galway (the graveyard of ambition) is that there are people in the city who believe a €600 million expressway is needed to shorten their 15-minute car commute.

Hats off, and all that.

Bringing up the "graveyard of ambition" thing now? You are re-iterating my point that you have a real issue with Galway City and its people.

pmasterson95

If a boards thread is used as a source to describe galway I've been using sources wrong my whole life. If a forum says it. It must be true.

Mrs OBumble

Crumbs868 wrote: »

But you live in the city centre, all transport revolves around the city centre so it's very easy to be satisfied with it as its on your doorstep.

What about families/people who can't afford (or want) the city centre life?

Sometimes you just gotta laugh.

First someone gives out about blow-ins who come here and expect all development to stop.

So I present myself as a clear counterexample, and quote a number of developments which I'm very happy with (including removal of roundabouts, whcih has benefits people living in the suburbs, and ones commuting in from Bally-wherever). But no, you've gotta pick holes in that too. (Do you really want to hear about non-city-centre developments I'm happy with? Merlin College, Claregalway College, the Galway Clinic extension ... all spring to mind.)

Let's be very clear: some people are opposed to the particular road plan that's suggested because it affects their homes and neighbourhoods.

Others are opposed for far broader reasons: car dependence is simply not sustainable. Cheap jibes about "which planet" attempt to defect this issue - but really it's should be getting more attention, instead of a descent into parish-pump-ism ("you have a problem with the people of Galway" - ya, and why are they so special above everyone else?).

This city desperately needs to find sustainable, effective ways of connecting the thousands of homes in Knocknacarra (due to decades of bad planning) with ways for the people living in them to make their living.

Delicia

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

This city desperately needs to find sustainable, effective ways of connecting the thousands of homes in Knocknacarra (due to decades of bad planning) with ways for the people living in them to make their living.

In the interest of clarity - are you suggesting that people living in Knocknacarra also find work in Knocknacarra? Are we not allowed across town - along with the people from Salthill, Westside, Barna, Moycullen & all points further West?
The problem is that anybody from west of the Corrib all the way to Clifden has only three ways of crossing Galway - the docks, Salmon Weir, or the Quincentenial. That's the case whether they actually want to go to town or travel further. The city is sitting on a natural gridlock caused by the sea & the Corrib River &, in my opinion, we need another bridge over the Corrib

Dorchester

_Whimsical_ wrote: »

They mentioned on GBfm this morning that those living right beside the motorway who feel their quality of life will be affected by noise or obscured view can sell their homes to Galway County Council and that the council will then sell their homes on at a later point.

They might say this now but there is NOTHING in our legislation to support this. Now if this was England, there are measures to support this. In reality, they are not going to purchase every house that is affected by noise, visual intrusion etc. They may purchase homes that are already getting some of their garden CPO'd but that is really the only case where they will purchase houses that are not going to be knocked, per se.

I know this because I have worked on at least 4 major road schemes in the country where this occurred. In all cases, the houses purchased were only those that could physically not exist due to the road alignment. So, unfortunately those people who are left looking at the road and listening to the road will likely get nothing.

The people who are CPO'd will get current market rate. Not what they paid for their property in 2005 or 2006 or whenever. And not what they put into their property or spent on their properties over generations.

I am not scaremongering. I have been heavily involved from an NRA standpoint in these schemes...more so than I even wish to mention on an anonymous forum.

People think money can compensate for everything. Even in this case, the amount of money paid out will likely not compensate for what people have financially spent on their property. In addition to this, it will not take into account people's stress, trauma, the fragmentation of communities etc.

I'd also like to point out that the press briefing that was given gave incorrect figures for the number of homes that will be demolished. I know this as I have met with my neighbours and our tally of demolished homes far exceeds what was issued as a figure for our area.

Dorchester

kippy wrote: »

That's a ridiculous attitude to take.

Obviously it's full of if's and but's but there are bound to be people in the exact or similar situation as described especially seeing how the past decade has panned out.
It is completely ridiculous for the state to leave a family far worse off as a result of a CPO. Unless the CPO calculation takes account of some of these variables you will have people in FAR worse situations than they are in.
Whatever about leaving people "better off", leaving them "far worse off" (ie a debt of X and no option of buying again) is something that should not be tolerated Now, perhaps CPO's take account of these - I have no experience in the area.

I worked on a major road scheme a few years ago and I dealt with numerous families who were being left worse off because of the CPO. This makes me even more fearful for my own status and that of the others affected. I am in negative equity by a few hundred thousand. Market rate on my property will not even come close to what I paid for it. The same can be said for other neighbours of ours. There is nothing in our legislation or in case law to help people like me. I have seen this happen at first hand before.

cgcsb

KevR wrote: »

"Decades of poor land use" is a fairly damning statement! While planning in Galway may not be perfect, it sounds like you have a serious isssue with the very fabric of Galway City. Joking aside, would you not be far happier living in any of the European cities which you idolise because of their good public transport and cycling facilities? Maybe even Dublin would be preferable to you? There is an endless choice...

I for one love Galway EVERY aspect to the way of life here. I would move elsewhere if I felt strongly about cycling or using public transport in a densely developed town/city because that's just not Galway.

It would be like someone choosing to live in Los Angeles and then moaning non-stop about Los Angeles not being a carbon copy of New York City....... Move already!

The car culture is a post 1960's invent at best. You are wanting to inflict damage onto Galway to accommodate your choice of a car dependent commute and suburbanization. Why don't you move to Los Angelus and let Galway people continue walking, cycling and taking pt as they've been doing for a very long time.

kippy

Dorchester wrote: »

I worked on a major road scheme a few years ago and I dealt with numerous families who were being left worse off because of the CPO. This makes me even more fearful for my own status and that of the others affected. I am in negative equity by a few hundred thousand. Market rate on my property will not even come close to what I paid for it. The same can be said for other neighbours of ours. There is nothing in our legislation or in case law to help people like me. I have seen this happen at first hand before.

If that's the case then I can understand completely the resistance to this road from anyone who would be in this position. Indeed, I'd back them up with my support.

Iwannahurl

It looks like the DTTAS/Govt doesn't have money for some proposed road schemes:

Transport minister Pascal Donohoe has sparked a furious row after again postponing the proposed €1bn Cork-Limerick motorway.

The motorway could slash 30 minutes from the commute time between Ireland's second- and third-largest cities - and remove some of the most dangerous stretches of single-carriageway primary road in the country.

The N20 Cork-Limerick road suffers from some of Ireland's worst accident black-spots - particularly around the infamous Limeworks in Buttevant, which has been the scene of multiple fatal accidents.

It was hoped the motorway would also ease congestion - with major bypasses of towns such as Mallow, Buttevant, Charleville - and enhance access to areas such as Croom.

Mr Donohue stunned Cork and Limerick councils by refusing to allow the project even go to the planning stage.

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/news/fury-as-minister-blocks-proposal-for-corklimerick-road-31211331.html

So if the Minister is not willing to spend €1 billion on a motorway that reportedly could "slash" the commute time between Ireland's second and third largest cities - and remove "some of the most dangerous stretches of single-carriageway primary road in the country", what are the chances he'll be willing to spend an estimated €600 million on an expressway to shorten the 15-minute cross-town commutes of motorists in Galway?

Iwannahurl

crusier wrote: »

It was the same whinging when mutton island was being built, do gooders who love the sound of their own voices objecting to everything and anything and claiming they have galways interests at heart. The grave yard of ambition lies with serial objectors and our city councilers and those who blow into glaway and then decide they want no further development now that they have arrived!

We're also very good at recycling in Galway. Keep it up.

KevR wrote: »

Bringing up the "graveyard of ambition" thing now? You are re-iterating my point that you have a real issue with Galway City and its people.

Not my phrase.

Your comment above is on a par with the by now standard anti-car/anti-motorist complaint. despite spurious claims to the contrary, I'm a Galwegian and a motorist (as well as a cyclist, bus users and pedestrian). I believe that this beautiful city, and it's potential, are being seriously blighted by utterly stupid levels of car use and car dependence. Incidentally, if you make enquiries you'll find that some of the people in City Hall who were major obstacles to sustainable transport were actually from outside the city. It's also the case that, typically, City Managers come from elsewhere in the country, because they're doing the Local Authority promotion circuit. Plus when they live here during their tenure they are, shall we say, not regularly seen walking or taking the bus. And heaven forbid that they would ever been seen on a bike, other than for a photo opportunity.

kippy

Iwannahurl wrote: »

It looks like the DTTAS/Govt doesn't have money for some proposed road schemes:



So if the Minister is not willing to spend €1 billion on a motorway that reportedly could "slash" the commute time between Ireland's second and third largest cities - and remove "some of the most dangerous stretches of single-carriageway primary road in the country", what are the chances he'll be willing to spend an estimated €600 million on an expressway to shorten the 15-minute cross-town commutes of motorists in Galway?

This "project" is so far from getting off the ground, that it won't come near this governments or indeed the next governments radar when it comes to funding the constructions side of it.
The Cork Limerick one is of far more importance from what I can tell. I suspect it'll be on the agenda sooner rather than later, most likely after Gort-Tuam is completed.

Iwannahurl

zarquon wrote: »

And people who are opposed are so mostly for personal reasons. I understand that some will be negatively affected by means of being uprooted and that is horrible and i don't need you changing my posts to that effect! . Unfortunately the whingers fought tooth and nail to protect a bit of bog with the effect that now more lives than originally planned are being affected. There is no irony only deceit. There are those who say that have the greater good in mind and they simply don't. People that say the status quo is fine for the city when really its only fine for them.

There were better options for the road that lessened the impact on those involved but the objectors who thought they had their way only made the impact on lives and cost worse.

I think most can agree that the city could not survive with only 4 ways to cross it and 3 of those being through narrow medievel city streets. Anyone that says the city in general will not be better off with the new road is a liar, plain and simple. There will be a minority who will be worse off though and they can thank the environmentalists for that who place the value of a piece of bog oak above that of human beings.

So now people questioning the wisdom of a massive increase in road capacity for car commuters are "liars"? Scraping the bottom of the barrel here, I would suggest.

Speaking of "personal reasons", I'm still waiting for you to answer my question, which I posed three days ago: how much time would a €600 million expressway shave off your 15-minute cross-town car commute?

dubhthach

The Outer bypass is basically at the same position that the M20 was 5-10 years ago Route selection had been completed before it was frozen, it's rather brave of a FG minister to can it just a year before the election. Just recall the basic route selection for the M17/M18 was fixed circa 2002, they only started construction there in the last 6 months.

Personally I think the M20 is probably the most important scheme to be let built in this state (A5 would be up there as important scheme island wide), it's not just motorway from Cork to Limerick it will also be last bit in jigsaw of motorway between Galway and Cork.

Iwannahurl

Zzippy wrote: »

Calling people whingers because they don't agree with your viewpoint is just sad, really. One can equally call the people who want a road for a shorter commute whingers. Self-interest on both sides, so slagging people off for having a self interest that conflicts with yours actually is ironic. Having an adult debate and actually debating viewpoints has more merit than dismissing opposing viewpoints as whingers.

I know your point is intended to support a particular point of view, which you presumably share to some degree.

However, I don't agree that there is equivalent "self-interest" on both sides of the argument. Sure, there is an element of NIMBYism. I have no doubt that many people who were jumping up and down about the rainbow routes will have far less to say now that the "emerging preferred route" has been identified. The reason is simple: their back yard is no longer in the firing line.

However, there are many people who are concerned about the proposal for reasons to do with what they regard as the common good, not because they personally stand to gain from not having a new expressway. I am a motorist, for example, so in theory at least if a new expressway benefits motorists then I would stand to gain as much as anyone else.

pmasterson95 wrote: »

If a forum says it. It must be true.

I'm sure that true.

Delicia wrote: »

The city is sitting on a natural gridlock caused by the sea & the Corrib River &, in my opinion, we need another bridge over the Corrib

There is no such thing as "natural gridlock". The "planners" must have been aware of the presence of a bay, river and lake when they made all their "planning" decisions over decades. If they didn't, then they were in the wrong job.

In any case, we are all paying the price for their "planning", which in shorthand can be summarised in two words: Knocknacarra and Parkmore.

Actually, there's at least one other key word: schools.

gordongekko

Iwannahurl wrote: »

2. Galway is not a "very cramped and condensed city". By European standards it's a small town, and so the level of car dependence is just silly. Where does the traffic congestion go when the schools are off? What is "peripheral traffic" in that context, and in a situation where just 5% of traffic would be expected to travel the entire length of a "bypass"?

You keep trotting out this 5% argument. This is not relevant. It's the same for most road. How many go the full length of the western distributor road?? Or do people use it to get from one point to another. How many use the full length of the doughiska road or do they get off it when they need to. How many go the full length of the m6 of do they get off it when they are in athlone loughrea or any point in between. The fact only 5% will use the full length of it is not an argument not to build it. If it was then nothing would ever get build.

Iwannahurl

gordongekko wrote: »

You keep trotting out this 5% argument. This is not relevant. It's the same for most road. How many go the full length of the western distributor road?? Or do people use it to get from one point to another. How many use the full length of the doughiska road or do they get off it when they need to. How many go the full length of the m6 of do they get off it when they are in athlone loughrea or any point in between. The fact only 5% will use the full length of it is not an argument not to build it. If it was then nothing would ever get build.

The 5% argument was made by ARUP, when explaining that an outer bypass would not solve the city's traffic problems.

Yet some people have spent years arguing in various forums, including Boards, that Galway needs an outer bypass.

Now we're down to the real nitty-gritty: what is being proposed is an expressway for cross-town car commuters. I have long argued that this is what was really being sought, and I was told that, no, the bypass was "needed as a bypass".

Strangely enough, the consultants proposing the new expressway have also declared that "we can't go on building more roads", which opens up a whole new area of debate.

Basically the line of argument to date can be summarised as:

• We need a bypass
• Actually no, a bypass won't work, so we need a cross-town expressway/relief road
• And by the way, we can't go on building more roads.

Mrs OBumble

Delicia wrote: »

In the interest of clarity - are you suggesting that people living in Knocknacarra also find work in Knocknacarra? Are we not allowed across town - along with the people from Salthill, Westside, Barna, Moycullen & all points further West?
The problem is that anybody from west of the Corrib all the way to Clifden has only three ways of crossing Galway - the docks, Salmon Weir, or the Quincentenial. That's the case whether they actually want to go to town or travel further. The city is sitting on a natural gridlock caused by the sea & the Corrib River &, in my opinion, we need another bridge over the Corrib

It's not nearly as simple as "not allowed".

Ideally, when Knocknacarra was being planned, the planners would have considered all the things that an area of that many homes needs: jobs, schools, shops, childcare, recreation facilities, public transport. Intead, they threw up houses on the greenfields and built the WDR (I'm a blow-in: am not actually sure if it was built at the same time, or just a little later when the people moved into their houses and the effect on the other roads was seen). All the rest has been dealt with later. Except for jobs - because many companies don't want to locate on that side of the river. Virtually the same thing happened in Doughiska - except that the area does have jobs because it's close enough to where companies want to locate. And it's got the community facilities more quickly, because of having activists with the right knowledge and contacts who happened to live there and have the energy to work on the issues.

But we now have a situation where people from Knocknacarra (and north / west of it) need to be moved in large numbers over the river - every day.

I agree that we need a 2nd reasonable-size bridge.

But rather than focusing just on building more roads, we need to get better value from the existing ones by minimising the amount that people need to travel. That means cycling, school buses, making places pedestrian-friendly, encouraging environmental consciousness, encouraging companies to locate west of the river, advising people who post on boards.ie "I'm moving to Galway, where should I live" to live on the same side that they work - and lots of other things.

In other words, a systemic solution not a simplistic one.

?Cee?view

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

It's not nearly as simple as "not allowed".

Ideally, when Knocknacarra was being planned, the planners would have considered all the things that an area of that many homes needs: jobs, schools, shops, childcare, recreation facilities, public transport. Intead, they threw up houses on the greenfields and built the WDR (I'm a blow-in: am not actually sure if it was built at the same time, or just a little later when the people moved into their houses and the effect on the other roads was seen). All the rest has been dealt with later. Except for jobs - because many companies don't want to locate on that side of the river. Virtually the same thing happened in Doughiska - except that the area does have jobs because it's close enough to where companies want to locate. And it's got the community facilities more quickly, because of having activists with the right knowledge and contacts who happened to live there and have the energy to work on the issues.

But we now have a situation where people from Knocknacarra (and north / west of it) need to be moved in large numbers over the river - every day.

I agree that we need a 2nd reasonable-size bridge.

But rather than focusing just on building more roads, we need to get better value from the existing ones by minimising the amount that people need to travel. That means cycling, school buses, making places pedestrian-friendly, encouraging environmental consciousness, encouraging companies to locate west of the river, advising people who post on boards.ie "I'm moving to Galway, where should I live" to live on the same side that they work - and lots of other things.

In other words, a systemic solution not a simplistic one.

Excellent post with the sole exception that I don't believe Knocknacarra was ever explicitly planned in its entirety.

If you think the current process is farcical, the building of the WDR was even more so. The roundabout on Bishop O'Donnell road was constructed and demolished eight times before being finalised!