Outer City Bypass

dubhthach

Iwannahurl wrote: »

You said earlier that your 15-minute car commute was in stark contrast to the time taken to use public transport.

The entire N6 Galway City Transport Project seems to be centred on commute times, traffic delays etc.

It's therefore a relevant question, imo: what effect will the expressway have on already "manageable" car commute times, such as your 15-minutes west-east trip?

How about the fact that the AADT over Salmon Weir Bridge alone warrants a dual carriageway, the current traffic loading on the three (and half, if ye want to include O'Brien's Bridge) bridges is unsustainable, and additional Corrib crossing is required, I doubt anyone would be too keen on a "Harbour Bridge"

Mrs OBumble

Deleted User wrote: »

FYP.

I'm not saying that roads are the answer and cycling, public transport, and pedestrianisation are not. But "encouraging" (in reality, forcing) people to not travel by car (Van? Lorry? Ambulance? What are those? They mess with my model, let's plug our ears and sing loudly till they go away.) will elicit one reaction. "F*ck you greeny, I'll get around that bullsh*t law you put up". Just look at the rise of E cigarettes in response to the anti-tobacco laws we have. Read the threads about how "speed cameras are nothing to do with road deaths, just money makers for gubberment. Here's how to get out of speeding fines." and "cyclist helmets are stupid & do nothing for safety".

I'm flabbergasted that the word "holistic" is even brought into this conversation.

I can honestly say that's the first time that someone has fixed my post by removing words that I didn't say! Congratulations.

Oh - and please point out where the word holistic occurs.



Now on topic of behaviour change: the picture posted before is an area that I know a bit about. A planning condition of the new HP building was building less than one car-park per worker: I think they've got about 70% of their desired number. The effect isn't felt yet because people can still park in front of the old building. But once that's demolished and put to whatever use the new owner has for it, HP will be a company with a distinct parking shortage. I already know some people who work in that area who choose to use public transport a couple of days a week for personal reasons (wife needs the car, etc) - car park numbers alone will dictate that lots of other people need to do something similar. Or the company will have to hire a lot more local wokers who can walk/cycle/telecomute, etc. And the same thing will happen to Boston, Schneider, Supermacs etc - all the employers in the area as they want to change their premises.

Iwannahurl

Iwannahurl wrote: »

E their space-wasting private transport as they see fit,

Its you who has decided they are "space-wasting" the majority would say they are perfectly happy to have them take up space.

Moving away from cars and stopping their production, preventing people from using them and forcing those people to use far less convenient methods, causing hassle and hardship on their lives for absolutely nothing other than some nonsense idealistic dream you and a few others have.

Its basically wanting to go back in time and ignore the huge progress that has been made in transport over the years with the pinnacle being the private car which gives freedom to people, freedom to go where they want then they want, freedom to being their family, freedom to transport goods etc etc...Freedom you want to remove.

thebackbar

zarquon wrote: »

Yep, i have a 15 minute commute at 7am when he still pouring his kids cornflakes or hugging his pillow therefore he extrapolates everyone west of the corrib must surely have the same commute experience 24x7!One person's experience being presented as a large cross sectional sample - that's enough for me to ignore any pretense statistical analysis by such posters when they are working from erroneous or poor data samples to begin with

I very much doubt IWH has to commute from barna to parkmore after dropping the kids to school otherwise his tone would be very different. It's easy for people to critisice a project that they get little or no direct benefit from and instead propose plans that would make their own lives much more convenient whilst pretending to have the "greater good" at heart. There is an incredible amount of disengenuous posting happening from certain opponents to the road who pretend they have the greater good at the city at heart when it's quite clear they have their own needs and agendas as the primary motivator in their opposition.

If IWH thinks it genuinely takes 15 minutes for people to travel from knocknacarra to parkmore, back and forth during rush hour then it only proves that he has never undertaken this route during peak traffic and therefore has no interest or benefit in the road which gives him the freedom to be an opponent to something he has no actual need for as it's of no benefit to him.

If the council built a €500m light rail line and QBC directly from his house to his place of work and kid's school, would he cry about the waste of resource and lack of integrated planning - doubtful to say the least

The road will be of benefit to people commuting from Knocknacarra and west to parkmore/ballybrit, however its hard to see how much benefit it will be to those people who have to drop kids to schools in the city en route to parkmore/ballybrit. I would still expect to see big tail backs in knocknacarra when this road is built. It would be interesting to get a breakdown of how much traffic the n6 will take away from the city ? is this data publicly available ?

Zzippy

Jazmin Green Straightjacket wrote: »

Its you who has decided they are "space-wasting" the majority would say they are perfectly happy to have them take up space.

Moving away from cars and stopping their production, preventing people from using them and forcing those people to use far less convenient methods, causing hassle and hardship on their lives for absolutely nothing other than some nonsense idealistic dream you and a few others have.

Its basically wanting to go back in time and ignore the huge progress that has been made in transport over the years with the pinnacle being the private car which gives freedom to people, freedom to go where they want then they want, freedom to being their family, freedom to transport goods etc etc...Freedom you want to remove.

Such a progressive attitude. Freedom! What about the freedom of people to continue to live in the homes that they have lived in for decades? I wouldn't wish a CPO on anyone, but I might make an exception for you... I'd love to hear your views on freedom then.

Zzippy

Zzippy wrote: »

Such a progressive attitude. Freedom! What about the freedom of people to continue to live in the homes that they have lived in for decades? I wouldn't wish a CPO on anyone, but I might make an exception for you... I'd love to hear your views on freedom then.

The M17 motorway is going right through one of my family's farms and cutting the edge of another. One side of the farm will be cut off from the other while also taking a considerable amount of land. A 2 minute walk from one field to the next will now be a drive. A short walk to the other family farm and house through the fields will now always be a drive around the roads. The road will also be less than 200 metres from both houses.

Now its not taking the houses but its damn close, however we know its a must and are happy for the road to be built I just wish they would force the CPO's on the people between Limerick and Cork to link Galway and Cork making my trips between the cities much easier. We did our bit for this end of the road but now they won't.

Dont always assume people are unaffected by things they support.

I feel sorry for anyone being put out of their homes, particularity those who grew up in the areas and it is their family home as I am a person very attached to my home place and want to settle there/near there in the future. They should all also be compensated fully (including those in negative equity) but at the end of the day it is necessary for progress that a small number of houses will need to be knocked.

dubhthach

Don't forget they CPO and knocked over dozen houses for M17/M18, likewise for all the various M6/M4 schemes over the last 10 years. It's par for the course with most road schemes, it's particularly bad around Galway because of planning department of Galway County Council and their behaviour when it came to one off housing if ye ask me.

zarquon

thebackbar wrote: »

The road will be of benefit to people commuting from Knocknacarra and west to parkmore/ballybrit, however its hard to see how much benefit it will be to those people who have to drop kids to schools in the city en route to parkmore/ballybrit. I would still expect to see big tail backs in knocknacarra when this road is built. It would be interesting to get a breakdown of how much traffic the n6 will take away from the city ? is this data publicly available ?

That's a very fair point. I think additional bus services are required to serve schools in addition to parking rule enforcement around schools, i.e zero tolerance ticketing of cars parked on double yellow lines, clearways, footpaths etc. School transit behaviour certainly needs to be changed in addition to the new road.

dubhthach

zarquon wrote: »

That's a very fair point. I think additional bus services are required to serve schools in addition to parking rule enforcement around schools, i.e zero tolerance ticketing of cars parked on double yellow lines, clearways, footpaths etc. School transit behaviour certainly needs to be changed in addition to the new road.

Well or we could be proper country and fund a school transport/bus system like how they do in the states. That and you are only allowed send your children to schools within your own "school district", would never fly in Ireland though!

gordongekko

Iwannahurl wrote: »

So is anybody at all willing to estimate how much time a €600 million expressway will shave off a 15-minute car commute?

The 15-minute car commuters have been somewhat reticent on the subject so far.

Irrelevant. It would be more relevant to estimate some useful like how many car will use any portion of the road daily.

Iwannahurl

Iwannahurl wrote: »

So is anybody at all willing to estimate how much time a €600 million expressway will shave off a 15-minute car commute?

The 15-minute car commuters have been somewhat reticent on the subject so far.

You are always latching onto comments like this people make and blowing them up and repeating them ad nauseum. The poster is obviously travelling at off peak times which is not possible for most.

Unless you are in a helicopter you are not getting across town in 15mins as things currently stand at peak times.

zarquon

Jazmin Green Straightjacket wrote: »

You are always latching onto comments like this people make and blowing them up and repeating them ad nauseum. The poster is obviously travelling at off peak times which is not possible for most.

Unless you are in a helicopter you are not getting across town in 15mins as things currently stand at peak times.

IWH misrepresenting data to suit his own agenda. Surely not! :eek:

Iwannahurl

Zzippy wrote: »

Building a new road without that will never result in an uptake in PT, the opposite, and in 20 years time given expansion of western suburbs and eastside industry we'll have the same problem again...

ARUP's dilemma in a nutshell, which is why their Associate Director has declared that "we cannot go on building more roads". What I don't fully appreciate is why she only wants to stop after building the Knocknacarra-Parkmore Expressway. Having her cake and eating it too, perhaps?

crusier wrote: »

Are you talking about the section from bushypark to the Westwood in the mornings?

Is that around 2 km? I travel 3 km in 15 minutes most mornings, and that's child's play.

dubhthach wrote: »

So his personal experience is suddenly the commute time for everyone crossing the Corrib? Wow that's some deep research by you.

As a Boards Mod you know well what a Straw Man is. Perhaps that's why you're able to pull prime examples like the one above out of your own otherwise empty (straw) hat.

The 15 minute reference is to one poster's self-reported account of their own commute, which compares a 3 km walk to the 405 bus + up to 60 minutes on the bus in traffic + another 5 minute walk to work at the destination end to a 15-minute drive for the same trip:

zarquon wrote: »

This is true, however for me, it's a 25 walk to the 405 and then 40mins to an hour in traffic as far as ballybrit. Then another 5 min walk after. All in somewhere between 70 and 90 mins with 3 KM of walking involved too. Alternative 15 mins in the car. It's not a difficult choice for me and those in the same position as me.

The BE 405 bus travels from Eyre Square to Ballybane. Eyre Square to Ballybane (Boston Scientific etc) is 3.8 km by car, according to Google Maps. Add another 3 km to that, and it's clear that zarquon is talking about a 6.8 km car commute, which takes him 15 minutes.

How many Galway City residents live within 7 km of their workplace? I don't have the data to hand, but we know that 47% of them live 4 km or less from work or education, so the percentage living 7 km or less from work or education must be significantly higher.

Let's look at what the Census data show with regard to travel time, without reference to distance. According to Census 2011, 33% of all workers resident in Galway City take less than 15 minutes to travel to work. Another 39% take 15-29 minutes. So that's 72% of all workers living in the city taking no more than half an hour to commute. 15% take 30-44 minutes, 3% take 45-59 minutes, 3% take 60-89 minutes and 1% take 90 minutes or more. The travel time for 6% of workers is not stated.

Note that these figures are for ALL workers, and are not classified by mode (perhaps those figures are available elsewhere). Also, the figures do not specify location of work. Therefore, the longer commute times (over an hour, say) could be to workplaces outside of Galway City -- even so, this still affects only 4% of the total.

Furthermore, some of the longer commute times could also be walkers, cyclists or bus users. Zarquon compares a 15-minute drive to a 70-90 minute combined commute on foot and by bus.

So, to repeat the question, still unanswered: how much time could a €600 million expressway be expected to shave off, say, a 15-minute car commute? Given the ridiculous level of car dependence in Galway City, there must be a goodly chunk of car commuters in the 33% cohort mentioned in the Census stats.

zarquon wrote: »

Yep, i have a 15 minute commute at 7am when he still pouring his kids cornflakes or hugging his pillow therefore he extrapolates everyone west of the corrib must surely have the same commute experience 24x7!One person's experience being presented as a large cross sectional sample - that's enough for me to ignore any pretense statistical analysis by such posters when they are working from erroneous or poor data samples to begin with

So what evidence, not in the category of "erroneous or poor data samples", can you adduce to support your own assumptions regarding cross-town car commute times and the anticipated effects of a €600 million expressway?

zarquon wrote: »

IWH misrepresenting data to suit his own agenda.

Which data?

dubhthach wrote: »

How about the fact that the AADT over Salmon Weir Bridge alone warrants a dual carriageway, the current traffic loading on the three (and half, if ye want to include O'Brien's Bridge) bridges is unsustainable, and additional Corrib crossing is required, I doubt anyone would be too keen on a "Harbour Bridge"

That's spurious reasoning. The mere fact of an AADT doesn't warrant the construction of a dual carriageway. If this absurd line of reasoning were taken to its logical extreme, then AADT's would justify road capacity increases, then the increased capacity would lead to increased AADTs, and then the increased AADTs would justify more road capacity. That's just silly. Oh wait, I nearly forgot: isn't that phenomenon already recognised? It's called induced traffic, or Predict & Provide, or some other outdated 1970s folly.

Mrs OBumble

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

Now on topic of behaviour change: the picture posted before is an area that I know a bit about. A planning condition of the new HP building was building less than one car-park per worker: I think they've got about 70% of their desired number. The effect isn't felt yet because people can still park in front of the old building. But once that's demolished and put to whatever use the new owner has for it, HP will be a company with a distinct parking shortage. I already know some people who work in that area who choose to use public transport a couple of days a week for personal reasons (wife needs the car, etc) - car park numbers alone will dictate that lots of other people need to do something similar. Or the company will have to hire a lot more local wokers who can walk/cycle/telecomute, etc. And the same thing will happen to Boston, Schneider, Supermacs etc - all the employers in the area as they want to change their premises.

So rural folk & town commuters can go and fully buck themselves then? How dare they get born & grow up on in the sticks out of walking or bike range, the muck savages. If they want a job, move into a box in the city like the rest of us! The sc*m have a hospital in the sticks FFS-THAT needs to be dragged within a city's limits too!

HP's parking policies aside (the kind of slow moving gradual change that people can go for & accept after time) This "local jobs for local people" attitude is where we stand apart.

Iwannahurl

Jazmin Green Straightjacket wrote: »

the pinnacle being the private car which gives freedom to people, freedom to go where they want then they want, freedom to being their family, freedom to transport goods etc etc...Freedom you want to remove.

So, with all this "freedom", what are motorists moaning about then?

zarquon wrote: »

That's a very fair point. I think additional bus services are required to serve schools in addition to parking rule enforcement around schools, i.e zero tolerance ticketing of cars parked on double yellow lines, clearways, footpaths etc. School transit behaviour certainly needs to be changed in addition to the new road.

All of that could be done now without an added "expressway", and could have been done for the past 25 years. It wasn't done, because the default policy was to hang around, hands in metaphorical pockets, waiting for a new road.

Iwannahurl

Iwannahurl wrote: »

So, with all this "freedom", what are motorists moaning about then?

They are moaning because they need modern roads to bring our road network into this century rather than trying to squeeze through narrow streets or across the one semi-modern route across town. When need a high speed road with no lights or roundabouts only entry/exit slip roads which will allow large volumes of traffic to get across town or closer to the area of the area of town the person wants to get to at high speed and without being on small city streets until the traffic can get as close to its destination as possible.

zarquon

Iwannahurl wrote: »

The 15 minute reference is to one poster's self-reported account of their own commute, which compares a 3 km walk to the 405 bus + up to 60 minutes on the bus in traffic + another 5 minute walk to work at the destination end to a 15-minute drive for the same trip:



The BE 405 bus travels from Eyre Square to Ballybane. Eyre Square to Ballybane (Boston Scientific etc) is 3.8 km by car, according to Google Maps. Add another 3 km to that, and it's clear that zarquon is talking about a 6.8 km car commute, which takes him 15 minutes.

I know you think you are infallible but you are completely wrong again. Conveniently you left out the trip between the 405 stop at B&Q and Eyre Square.

It's not like you to omit important data as part of your analysis. I'm surprised!

Iwannahurl wrote: »

Is that around 2 km? I travel 3 km in 15 minutes most mornings, and that's child's play.

That's pretty shocking, would you not cycle that distance instead. It would take me approximately an hour to commute at that rate (You can now correctly extrapolate my distance :rolleyes: ) How convenient for you to only have to travel 3KM. Pretty shocking though that you are willing to sit in a car for 15 mins though :eek: - Unless of course you are jogging your commute every morning. I'm assuming you are not cycling because it would be ridiculous to have a cycling speed akin to an average jogging rate

Iwannahurl

zarquon wrote: »

I know you think you are infallible but you are completely wrong again. Conveniently you left out the trip between the 405 stop at B&Q and Eyre Square.

It's not like you to omit important data as part of your analysis. I'm surprised!

I wouldn't call that data exactly.

So what's the total length of the commute you refer to?

Jazmin Green Straightjacket wrote: »

They are moaning because they need modern roads to bring our road network into this century rather than trying to squeeze through narrow streets or across the one semi-modern route across town. When need a high speed road with no lights or roundabouts only entry/exit slip roads which will allow large volumes of traffic to get across town or closer to the area of the area of town the person wants to get to at high speed and without being on small city streets until the traffic can get as close to its destination as possible.

So this supposed "freedom" isn't a constant then? How does that come about?

zarquon wrote: »

That's pretty shocking, would you not cycle that distance instead. It would take me approximately an hour to commute at that rate (You can now correctly extrapolate my distance :rolleyes: ) How convenient for you to only have to travel 3KM. Pretty shocking though that you are willing to sit in a car for 15 mins though :eek: - Unless of course you are jogging your commute every morning. I'm assuming you are not cycling because it would be ridiculous to have a cycling speed akin to an average jogging rate

You are, ahem, clearly not up to speed on the situation.

zarquon

Iwannahurl wrote: »

Which data?

Ummm, how about the above misrepresented incorrect calculation of my commute conveniently missing key data. I didn't even have to try hard to find an example of you manipulating data to achieve false results, it was already in the same post!

Iwannahurl

zarquon wrote: »

Ummm, how about the above misrepresented incorrect calculation of my commute conveniently missing key data. I didn't even have to try hard to find an example of you manipulating data to achieve false results, it was already in the same post!

I wouldn't call that data.

What is the length of the commute you are referring to?

zarquon

Iwannahurl wrote: »

You are, ahem, clearly not up to speed on the situation.

3KM in 15mins. I assure you that it's you who is not up to SPEED

Iwannahurl wrote: »

I wouldn't call that data.

What is the length of the commute you are referring to?

Suddenly it's not data to you when you are shown to be completely incorrect!

Data and information are equivalent with subtle differences that in this context are irrelevant. If your basis for argument is one of semantics, then there is no point engaging with you. It's boring when you reduce the debate to semantics (a common occurence), barely a step above discussing grammer.

I've also giving you all the data/information you need to do the calculation. Amazingly you were quick to do an original calculation via a poor assessment of the facts and now with all the necessary info you suddenly cannot repeat the same calculations showing you to be wrong by almost 50%

Edit: Just had a look at IWH's commute diary thread where he stated that he has a 3.5KM journey from home to work. How interesting that someone living so close to his work is dictating to people living 10-15km and more from their jobs to hop on a bus or a bike!

Iwannahurl

I cycle the 3 km, in 15 minutes, at a child's pace. Referred to numerous times in various threads/posts, which you are obviously not familiar with.

What is the length of the commute you are referring to?

zarquon

Iwannahurl wrote: »

I cycle the 3 km, in 15 minutes, at a child's pace. Referred to numerous times in various threads/posts, which you are obviously not familiar with.

Yes, i had a look at the thread. I can see you have a 3.5km trip between work and home. How convenient that you can dictate to someone having to travel 3.6 times further than you how they should commute :rolleyes:

Iwannahurl wrote: »

What is the length of the commute you are referring to?

Really, you suddenly can't calculate when the figure is almost 100% higher than your original figure. Amazing how are you are suddenly unable to repeat your original calculation using the same methodology when your erroneous calculation better supported your argument.

Misrepresenting information and data seems to be hobby of your yours. Feel free to respond with a semantics discussion or alternative deflection as that's your modus operandi when things become uncomfortable for you

dubhthach

What census shows us is the average commute time for someone resident within the city boundary is 20 minutes. So ye where only 25% off, however in most professions 25% off would get you fired, so I wouldn't crow about it. However only 50% of the workforce of the city live within the city boundary. The fact that 42% of daily trips across the current bridges (probably on order of 50-60% in case of QCB) originate outside the city boundary points to this fact.

Nearly a fifth of the city resident working population actually have to commute outside of the city. Thus the total number of workers crossing the city boundary every day is on the order of 25k (20k originating outside boundary, 5k originating within)

Again both the QCB and Salmon Weir Bridge exceed their designed AADT, as a result we see increased congestion and the relevant pollution that goes with it. Why should traffic originating on the N59 (or more importantly heading towards that) be routed through QCB when it has no business been in general Suckeen area?

Iwannahurl

zarquon wrote: »

Yes, i had a look at the thread. I can see you have a 3.5km trip between work and home. How convenient that you can dictate to someone having to travel 3.6 times further than you how they should commute :rolleyes:

Really, you suddenly can't calculate when the figure is almost 100% higher than your original figure.

Amazing how are you are suddenly unable to repeat your original calculation using the same methodology when your erroneous calculation better supported your argument.

Misrepresenting information and data seems to be hobby of your yours. Feel free to respond with a semantics discussion or alternative deflection as that's your modus operandi when things become uncomfortable for you

Wading through the bluff and bluster, ignoring some of the more entertaining errors, and dodging the horde of straw men, I gather that you're commuting approximately 12 km. Correct me if I'm wrong.

It would have been much easier, and more honest, just to state the actual figure. But no matter -- I can see why you're avoiding it.

zarquon wrote: »

Ummm, how about the above misrepresented incorrect calculation of my commute conveniently missing key data. I didn't even have to try hard to find an example of you manipulating data to achieve false results, it was already in the same post!

zarquon wrote: »

Suddenly it's not data to you when you are shown to be completely incorrect!

I've also giving you all the data/information you need to do the calculation. Amazingly you were quick to do an original calculation via a poor assessment of the facts and now with all the necessary info you suddenly cannot repeat the same calculations showing you to be wrong by almost 50%.

zarquon wrote: »

IWH misrepresenting data to suit his own agenda.

If only you remembered the Law of Holes a little sooner. :rolleyes:

Earlier, because I mistakenly included only half of the entire 405 bus route as indicated on this webpage, I made a rough estimate that your self-declared 15-minute commute was no more than 7 km.

zarquon wrote: »

I know you think you are infallible but you are completely wrong again. Conveniently you left out the trip between the 405 stop at B&Q and Eyre Square.

It's not like you to omit important data as part of your analysis. I'm surprised

In fact, it now seems that it's more like 12 km.

12 km is a typical Knocknacarra to Parkmore commuting distance. The Knocknacarra end of the 405, for reasons best known to Bus Eireann perhaps, terminates in the Gateway Retail Park, or whatever it's called these days. It's about 3 km from the end of the WDR to the 405 terminus.

My original point was not particularly about the distance, but about the time taken to travel:

zarquon wrote: »

This is true, however for me, it's a 25 walk to the 405 and then 40mins to an hour in traffic as far as ballybrit. Then another 5 min walk after. All in somewhere between 70 and 90 mins with 3 KM of walking involved too. Alternative 15 mins in the car. It's not a difficult choice for me and those in the same position as me.

In fact, my supposed misrepresentation of "data" to suit my own agenda was a significant underestimate of the cross-town distance you drive in just 15 minutes, by your own admission. And your car commute is, to use your own words, "manageable":

zarquon wrote: »

the commute time which is manageable for the most part.

We know that 47% of Galway City residents live 4 km or less from their place of work or education. And a reported 85% of commutes are 9 km or less. A reasonable guess might be that 95% of city residents live 12 km or less from their place of work or education. And as we can see, a 12 km cross-town commute can be done, under certain conditions, in about 15 minutes.

dubhthach wrote: »

So his personal experience is suddenly the commute time for everyone crossing the Corrib? Wow that's some deep research by you.

Straw men notwithstanding, the hypothetical and manageable 15-minute cross-town commute is confirmed by Google Maps.

In fact it's a neat representation of what is being sought with this proposed Knocknacarra-Parkmore Expressway. 12 km is not a vast distance, and 15 minutes is indeed manageable. It is not beyond the bounds of possibility that traffic could be managed and transportation planned in such a way as to ensure that most such commutes 12 km and under are "manageable" for most people, without spending €600 million of scarce public resources on an expressway, the primary purpose of which appears to be to let the comfortable car commute continue unabated without altering the status quo.

This little 15-minute interlude is also a good illustration of a particular mindset, as shown in this post:

zarquon wrote: »

Don't forget the biggest hypocracy of all in the fact that the whingers will most certainly use the facilities with glee once they are in place.

It's a Mé Féin atitude. "I don't need the road therefore the city doesn't need the road! I want the money spent on what I want. The city needs what I need" Easy to say when you are conveniently close to schools, work, bus stops, etc and have full physical mobility. Everyone else who is not so conveniently positioned in life can just feck off according to the naysayers.

Pretending to have the greater interests of the city at heart but really just having their own interests and personal agendas at heart. Incredibly disingenuous behaviour displaying utter contempt for the people of the city and the city itself.

Iwannahurl

dubhthach wrote: »

So ye where only 25% off, however in most professions 25% off would get you fired, so I wouldn't crow about it.

What?

dubhthach wrote: »

only 50% of the workforce of the city live within the city boundary. The fact that 42% of daily trips across the current bridges (probably on order of 50-60% in case of QCB) originate outside the city boundary points to this fact.

Nearly a fifth of the city resident working population actually have to commute outside of the city. Thus the total number of workers crossing the city boundary every day is on the order of 25k (20k originating outside boundary, 5k originating within)

Again both the QCB and Salmon Weir Bridge exceed their designed AADT, as a result we see increased congestion and the relevant pollution that goes with it.

If 50% of the workforce living outside the city are commuting into the city then they are self-evidently not bypassing it. What is your source for the statement that "nearly a fifth of the city resident working population actually have to commute outside of the city"?

There may be one than one reason for the QCB and Salmon Weir Bridge exceeding their design AADT, which could suggest more than one solution. What are the AADTs when the schools are off, and at times when car commuters are driving 12 km across the city in a manageable 15 minutes?

Mrs OBumble

dubhthach wrote: »

Nearly a fifth of the city resident working population actually have to commute outside of the city. Thus the total number of workers crossing the city boundary every day is on the order of 25k (20k originating outside boundary, 5k originating within)

Yeah, but how many of those are simply going to Parkmore, which is technically in the county area despite being in the city for all practical purposes (except drainage!)

Iwannahurl

Has the concept of the Galway Metropolitan Smarter Travel Area addressed that issue?

Travel data based on administrative boundaries may well paint a misleading picture. Technically, someone resident in Barna and working in Parkmore may be recorded as travelling entirely within the county.

The important reality is that people in the city and its "rural" hinterland are living car-dependent lives which clog up the roads with cars.

I don't believe that this situation such be taken as a given, and hence to be accommodated as if it's a natural phenomenon. The real question that matters is whether more of the same should be facilitated with a €600 million expressway or whether a new paradigm should be adopted which systematically seeks to reduce that car dependence, both in the city and outside it.

zarquon

Iwannahurl wrote: »

If only you remembered the Law of Holes a little sooner. :rolleyes:

LOL - Literally! If only you realised the irony of your thesis like post attempting to cover up and deflect from your original errors. Stop digging, put down that shovel and go for a walk or cycle, you'll be all the better for it.

Additionally for a man that throws around straw man accusations to others with ease you are the biggest culprit of such methods in this thread, that i can see. The irony is almost bordering on parody levels, it's scary that you are deadly serious in your diatribes against all who would oppose your ideology.

youngrun

Briefing document here issued to councillors
http://www.n6galwaycity.ie/wp-content/uploads/2015/05/Galway-Councillor-Briefing_07052015_Issue-2.pdf

looks like the next stages ie landowner discussions should be in progress from now on?