Outer City Bypass

Iwannahurl

Iwannahurl wrote: »

I don't believe that this situation such be taken as a given, and hence to be accommodated as if it's a natural phenomenon. The real question that matters is whether more of the same should be facilitated with a €600 million expressway or whether a new paradigm should be adopted which systematically seeks to reduce that car dependence, both in the city and outside it.

The fact is its going to happen so you might as well save all the energy you are going to use up whining about it in every thread its mentioned for years to come.

Iwannahurl

Mylah Quaint Technique wrote: »

You are always latching onto comments like this people make and blowing them up and repeating them ad nauseum. The poster is obviously travelling at off peak times which is not possible for most.

Unless you are in a helicopter you are not getting across town in 15mins as things currently stand at peak times.

The details matter, and they can be very revealing. The fact is that, despite all the bluster, ducking and diving, the poster in question indicated that his/her commute is roughly 12 km and takes a "manageable" 15 minutes.

This is not a unique situation. We know from the 2011 Census stats that a third of commuters in the city are travelling for 15 minutes or less to get to work, and that 72% of all workers living in the city taking no more than half an hour to commute. Census 2006 showed that 85% of all trips in the city were 9 km or less. Since around three in every four commuters travel by car, this means that a majority of car trips in the city, regardless of time of day, are less than half an hour and are over distances of 9 km or less.

The reality in Galway City, therefore, is that most commutes can be described as manageable, in terms of both time and distance.

And we need a €500 million expressway to facilitate this?

The distances are absolute, of course, but trip duration will vary. Peak time commutes will take longer, but even so 72% of commuters in the city, most of whom presumably travel at peak times, take no longer than half an hour to get to work.

Much of the anguished wailing about the need for a "bypass" to alleviate traffic congestion, therefore, is not coming from motorists who believe their commute time is unmanageable.

Rather, it's coming from motorists travelling manageable distances of less than 9 km but who believe that their drive is taking too long. And of course they're all sitting in traffic congestion that they are helping to create.

There are other ways of relieving peak time traffic congestion. This is where other posters' comments are revealing, such as this one, which I latched onto earlier:

MargeS wrote: »

Why is it that if you leave for work, traffic is backed up on the way into Galway well before 8am. Most cars have one driver and no kids. How does the school run cause such jams so early.

I love the summer - no traffic jams to work.

At least your comments are honest, Mylah Quaint Technique. You're quite clear that the purpose of new roads such as the proposed Knocknacarra-Parkmore Expressway is to make driving even more comfortable and convenient than it already is.

Mylah Quaint Technique wrote: »

The fact is its going to happen so you might as well save all the energy you are going to use up whining about it in every thread its mentioned for years to come.

We'll see.

Iwannahurl

Iwannahurl wrote: »

The details matter, and they can be very revealing. The fact is that, despite all the bluster, ducking and diving, the poster in question indicated that his/her commute is roughly 12 km and takes a "manageable" 15 minutes.

This is not a unique situation. We know from the 2011 Census stats that a third of commuters in the city are travelling for 15 minutes or less to get to work, and that 72% of all workers living in the city taking no more than half an hour to commute. Census 2006 showed that 85% of all trips in the city were 9 km or less. Since around three in every four commuters travel by car, this means that a majority of car trips in the city, regardless of time of day, are less than half an hour and are over distances of 9 km or less.

The reality in Galway City, therefore, is that most commutes can be described as manageable, in terms of both time and distance.

And we need a €500 million expressway to facilitate this?

The distances are absolute, of course, but trip duration will vary. Peak time commutes will take longer, but even so 72% of commuters in the city, most of whom presumably travel at peak times, take no longer than half an hour to get to work.

Much of the anguished wailing about the need for a "bypass" to alleviate traffic congestion, therefore, is not coming from motorists who believe their commute time is unmanageable.

Rather, it's coming from motorists travelling manageable distances of less than 9 km but who believe that their drive is taking too long. And of course they're all sitting in traffic congestion that they are helping to create.

Leaving aside the fact I think a lot of the stats presented on this are highly questionable, why are you so fixated with "the city". Galway is not just a city you know.

There are thousands of people travelling into, and across the city from the county everyday. Travelling much further distances and encountering a lot of traffic which would be eased considerably with a better road network around the city.

Iwannahurl wrote: »

is to make driving even more comfortable and convenient than it already is.

I drove to NUIG* everyday for 4 years from my home place in the country, at peak times the trip took approximately an hour in off-peak times (and being a bit lax with the speed limits) I could do it in about 15 mins or 20 mins with normal driving.

I would call an hour far too long, 30 mins at peak times would be a far more comfortable and convenient commute time given the distance. A proper bypass around the city would take make a big difference for people travelling in from all sides of the city as it would route a lot of cars around the city centre which dont need to be there thus speeding up the commute of those that do need to be there. People coming from the east side of the county would be able to totally bypass the city centre if going say to the university of the hospital similar to how those on the west could get to parkmore etc without driving through the city. People coming from the tuam road could also join the new bypass on the east side of the city making getting west much faster and easier and in turn taking them cars out of the city centre.

Those coming from the headford road would also benefit as they could use it to get to the university or simply by having so much cross town traffic off the QCB etc traffic flow would drastically improve for people travelling the traditional way into the university of through town or over the QCB.



*I'm using the University simply as its a commute I know well.

Iwannahurl

Jazmin Green Straightjacket wrote: »

Leaving aside the fact I think a lot of the stats presented on this are highly questionable, why are you so fixated with "the city". Galway is not just a city you know.

Officially it's a Galway City Transport Project.

Are you saying the Census data are questionable?

Crumbs868

Iwannahurl wrote: »

Officially it's a Galway City Transport Project.

Are you saying the Census data are questionable?

Depends who is presenting it

Iwannahurl

Iwannahurl wrote: »

Officially it's a Galway City Transport Project.

But that includes people travelling around the city from outside it too.

Iwannahurl wrote: »

Are you saying the Census data are questionable?

I don't put huge faith in people accurately answering this type of question no as they are usually rushed answers without much thought and the results can also be twisted to suit an agenda.

Iwannahurl

Crumbs868 wrote: »

Depends who is presenting it

It's official data, and it stands on its own merits.

If you had anything of substance to contribute wouldn't you have done so by now?

Jazmin Green Straightjacket wrote: »

I don't put huge faith in people accurately answering this type of question no as they are usually rushed answers without much thought and the results can also be twisted to suit an agenda.

That's a bizarre generalisation. So are you suggesting that Census data can't be used to inform public policy? And that unsubstantiated opinion is superior to the CSO's methodology?

Iwannahurl

Iwannahurl wrote: »

That's a bizarre generalisation. So are you suggesting that Census data can't be used to inform public policy? And that unsubstantiated opinion is superior to the CSO's methodology?

It can give a general idea but I would not be using the commute times etc as absolute fact as you are.

Also circumstances change a lot. Back in 2011 there were a lot more people out of work and and therefore less traffic on the roads. I think its clear to everyone that in the last year or two there is a lot more traffic on the roads again so any commute times from a few years ago would have increased.

Crumbs868

Iwannahurl wrote: »

It's official data, and it stands on its own merits.

If you had anything of substance to contribute wouldn't you have done so by now?

To what? The usual IWH highjacks a thread show, now showing edition 29

Iwannahurl

Jazmin Green Straightjacket wrote: »

It can give a general idea but I would not be using the commute times etc as absolute fact as you are.

Also circumstances change a lot. Back in 2011 there were a lot more people out of work and and therefore less traffic on the roads. I think its clear to everyone that in the last year or two there is a lot more traffic on the roads again so any commute times from a few years ago would have increased.

Let's get a "general idea" of the situation in 2006 then.

Back in 2006 there were a lot more people in work, and there was more traffic on the roads in the city and county.

In 2006, 28% of all workers in Galway City and County reported that it took them less than 15 minutes to drive to work. Another 30% said their commute was 15 minutes to less than half an hour. So that's 58% of commuters (over 55000 people) in Galway City and County taking less than 30 minutes to travel to work. Only 7% said it took them more than an hour. Interestingly, nearly ten thousand people (10%) did not respond to this question; perhaps they're the type of people who give "rushed answers without much thought" which would suggest that the people who did answer are providing reliable data.

In Galway City, 35% of respondents said it took them less than 15 minutes to travel to work. That's two percentage points higher than the proportion in 2011, when you say there was less traffic on the roads. Another 37% took 15 minutes to less than half an hour, which means 72% of all workers in the city reported a commute time of less than half an hour. That's the same as in 2011. The proportion of workers in the city taking over an hour to get to work was 3% in 2006, one percentage point less than in 2011.

Iwannahurl wrote: »

Let's look at what the Census data show with regard to travel time, without reference to distance. According to Census 2011, 33% of all workers resident in Galway City take less than 15 minutes to travel to work. Another 39% take 15-29 minutes. So that's 72% of all workers living in the city taking no more than half an hour to commute. 15% take 30-44 minutes, 3% take 45-59 minutes, 3% take 60-89 minutes and 1% take 90 minutes or more. The travel time for 6% of workers is not stated.

Zzippy

zarquon wrote: »

LOL - Literally! If only you realised the irony of your thesis like post attempting to cover up and deflect from your original errors. Stop digging, put down that shovel and go for a walk or cycle, you'll be all the better for it.

Additionally for a man that throws around straw man accusations to others with ease you are the biggest culprit of such methods in this thread, that i can see. The irony is almost bordering on parody levels, it's scary that you are deadly serious in your diatribes against all who would oppose your ideology.

You're taking it pretty seriously yourself, and there are a few diatribes on both sides... :rolleyes:

Iwannahurl

Iwannahurl wrote: »

Let's get a "general idea" of the situation in 2006 then.

Back in 2006 there were a lot more people in work, and there was more traffic on the roads in the city and county.

In 2006, 28% of all workers in Galway City and County reported that it took them less than 15 minutes to drive to work. Another 30% said their commute was 15 minutes to less than half an hour. So that's 58% of commuters (over 55000 people) in Galway City and County taking less than 30 minutes to travel to work. Only 7% said it took them more than an hour. Interestingly, nearly ten thousand people (10%) did not respond to this question; perhaps they're the type of people who give "rushed answers without much thought" which would suggest that the people who did answer are providing reliable data.

In Galway City, 35% of respondents said it took them less than 15 minutes to travel to work. That's two percentage points higher than the proportion in 2011, when you say there was less traffic on the roads. Another 37% took 15 minutes to less than half an hour, which means 72% of all workers in the city reported a commute time of less than half an hour. That's the same as in 2011.

And again "the city" "the city" "the city". I'm not bothered about the city on its own, Im far more concerned about the combination of both city and county and the county alone as these are the people for whom the bypass is completely vital, thats not to say its not vital for people in the the city too but slow commutes really effect people from further outside the city.

Iwannahurl

Jazmin Green Straightjacket wrote: »

And again "the city" "the city" "the city". I'm not bothered about the city on its own, Im far more concerned about the combination of both city and county .

Jazmin Green Straightjacket wrote: »

Im far more concerned about the combination of both city and county and the county alone as these are the people for whom the bypass is completely vital, thats not to say its not vital for people in the the city too but slow commutes really effect people from further outside the city.

So what are you saying about commute times in Galway County on its own, and what evidence supports your position?


.

zarquon

Zzippy wrote: »

You're taking it pretty seriously yourself, and there are a few diatribes on both sides... :rolleyes:

As are you, so your point is? Perhaps i dont like the idea of someone with a convenient 2 mile commute dictating to everyone else in the city and county as to how they should commute via incredibly inconvenient methods!

Iwannahurl

zarquon wrote: »

As are you, so your point is? Perhaps i dont like the idea of someone with a convenient 2 mile commute dictating to everyone else in the city and county as to how they should commute via incredibly inconvenient methods!

My 15-minute 3km cycle commute is manageable.

Your 15-minute 12km car commute is manageable.

Only one of us fancies a €500 million expressway to make our 15-minute commute more manageable.

Iwannahurl

Iwannahurl wrote: »

So what are you saying about commute times in Galway County on its own, and what evidence supports your position?


.

When I said Galway county on its own I meant commuting into the city or surrounding industrial estates from the county not trips taking place in the country only.

The fact is for people living in the country it takes too long to get to work in the city due to the lack of necessary infrastructure.

Many steps are taking place like the M6 motorway helping get people from the east of the county into the city quicker. The M17 will mean less traffic through claregalway and thus improve commute times from the Tuam direction (though it should have been bypassed years ago). The M18 will improve travel for those in the south of the county but the one big piece of the jigsaw required to tie in with all this is a proper bypass in the city which will benefit all the above and those commuting from the west and headford road directions. It will mean people can get as close their destination as possible on a high speed high volume road and stay off narrow city streets thus both easing traffic and congestion in the city while also speeding up commute times for both those who still use city streets and those who now use the bypass.

Iwannahurl

Jazmin Green Straightjacket wrote: »

When I said Galway county on its own I meant commuting into the city or surrounding industrial estates from the county not trips taking place in the country only.

The fact is for people living in the country it takes too long to get to work in the city due to the lack of necessary infrastructure.

The Census data report the commute times of people ordinarily resident in the county. The data do not specify destination, but self-evidently a significant number are commuting into the city.

What data do you have regarding the commute times of county residents travelling into the city, and in what ways are are such data different from the CSO stats?

Mrs OBumble

Jazmin Green Straightjacket wrote: »

The fact is its going to happen so you might as well save all the energy you are going to use up whining about it in every thread its mentioned for years to come.

Do you think that will be before or after the Cork-Limerick motorway project?

Jazmin Green Straightjacket wrote: »

People coming from the east side of the county would be able to totally bypass the city centre if going say to the university of the hospital similar to how those on the west could get to parkmore etc without driving through the city.

That comment encouraged me to look at the map from the perspective of someone travelling from east of the city to UHG.

Which is very interesting indeed.

Unless I'm very mistaken, to avoid the city, all this traffic will exiting the Expressway at the new major junction near Letteragh Rd. The traffic from west of the city for the same location will also exit there. Next, all this traffic will go down the new access road which links the Expressway to Rahoon Rd. Then it will down Rahoon Rd (the bit north/west of the cemetery, which is currently quite suburban) and along Seamus Quirke Rd to get to the hospital/university.

The other options it has is to take the new link road from the Letterragh junction and Bushypark, and go from there down the n59. This route will be longer, but perhaps better because the N59 is already a major route.

And the last option is to get off at the Headford Rd junction and travel over the Quin bridge instead. (But aren't they doing that already?)

I wonder if the residents of these streets have thought about what it will be be like having virtually all the university and hospital traffic going past them.

Iwannahurl

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

I wonder if the residents of these streets have thought about what it will be be like having virtually all the university and hospital traffic going past them.

Some of them are already thinking about such things, and some will eventually wake up when reality dawns that what is being proposed is an urban expressway/relief road and not an outer bypass.

pleasant Co.

Closing this thread for a period of time, it's gotten ridiculous.