A Case For constructive dismissal??

LegacyUser

Last Wednesday I visited the Doctor, He certified me with "nervous exhaustion" & prescribed some tranquilisers for a month.

This however according to him may not be the final solution (but hopefully it will be), as even if they work they can only be taken for a month otherwised I would become addicted/dependant on them.

The next step as he told me would be to see a pschyo-analyst. Which presumably is not cheap and presumably out of my price range.

It was the Dr's sugguestion that the link between panic attacks/ nervous condition may have been initiated by me being wrongly accused and suspended of an illegal act in work and the trauma and stigma associated with it, as it was on that day that I suffered my first panic attack; which since then has increased in it's severity over the time it has remained untreated to the point where work and commutting to/from work is òn the verge of unbearable.

Which brings me where I am today, In a position where I honestly feel I cannot work for the company, (who may turn out to be the root cause of the problem) like this without some help, and this help may prove to be unobtainable.

I met with the HR Dept and requested that they pay for the treatment, which was turned down.

Sorry I've gone on so long. I was wondering if anyone may know if I leave the company is there is a case for constructive dismissal?

eth0_

It's complex, I would advise you to speak to a lawyer who specialises in employment rights.

gerrycollins

Unregistered wrote: »

Last Wednesday I visited the Doctor, He certified me with "nervous exhaustion" & prescribed some tranquilisers for a month.

This however according to him may not be the final solution (but hopefully it will be), as even if they work they can only be taken for a month otherwised I would become addicted/dependant on them.

The next step as he told me would be to see a pschyo-analyst. Which presumably is not cheap and presumably out of my price range.

It was the Dr's sugguestion that the link between panic attacks/ nervous condition may have been initiated by me being wrongly accused and suspended of an illegal act in work and the trauma and stigma associated with it, as it was on that day that I suffered my first panic attack; which since then has increased in it's severity over the time it has remained untreated to the point where work and commutting to/from work is òn the verge of unbearable.

Which brings me where I am today, In a position where I honestly feel I cannot work for the company, (who may turn out to be the root cause of the problem) like this without some help, and this help may prove to be unobtainable.

I met with the HR Dept and requested that they pay for the treatment, which was turned down.

Sorry I've gone on so long. I was wondering if anyone may know if I leave the company is there is a case for constructive dismissal?

ok when the illegal act occured what happened?do you mean illegal in the sense of against the laws of our country?

firstly you should have been suspended on full pay pending and investigation.

secondly you should have had the matter discussed with a witness involved on both sides for clairity.

the investigation should have been no more than 2 days(reasonable in my opnion)

you should have been given the results of the investigation again with witness present.

you should have then been reinstated to your job if you were innocent.

all matters should have been recorded and written and signed by all parties.

your employers should give you the presumption of innocence until proven guilty hence the suspension on full pay.

if all the above was adheered to then the company are not directly responsible for your reaction(sorry kinda strong word) if however they slipped up you have a case.

best consult a legal eagle on the matter as they can be very complicated but the above is a guideline

LegacyUser

Thanks for your responses.

okay. well it was criminal damage at a hotel a work function ( the garda were never involved), It was common knowledge that it had been done, just not by who. Complete embarrasment to be associated with it.

Did get suspension on full pay for 3 days. Not formally cleared for may 7-10 days after, during which point I could not speak about the incident, further implicating myself

Had a witness also, 2 union members who I never requested. I was, I guess kinda bushwhacked for the disciplinary meeting. I was just called out, as I witness I presumed at the time, where I was told in no uncertain terms that I did it, and the suspension was a formality.

You see, they had been sent cctv footage of the incident in an e-mail and I was told and I remember distinctly that "the camera doesn't lie". Which Where it all starts to get mirky;

I was told by both my operations manager and the union officials that they had just seen a 10 minute video from the hotel. And on this their judgement was based. I have since seen the cctv footage as a witness and it is clear as day from the footage that it was certainly not me. Corroborated by everyone else who seen the video too.

It turns out that they did recieve the footage on an email that morning but didn't have the software at that time to open it. All they had was a still shot from the cctv. So it seems like I was lied to by both a) my operations manager and b) more worringly the union.

AARRRGH

If my job was causing me to be require tranquilisers and psycho-analysis, I don't think I'd continue working there... so at some stage you really should ask yourself, "Am I my own worst enemy? Why do I tolerate ruining my own life?"

Do you have a history of nervous or psychological issues?

Eoin

gerrycollins wrote: »

if all the above was adheered to then the company are not directly responsible for your reaction(sorry kinda strong word) if however they slipped up you have a case.

How do you mean "slipped up"? All the stuff you mention is completely dependent on what is in the disciplinary procedure policy of the OP's company - the steps you listed are just one set of steps that a company might choose to take.

gerrycollins wrote: »

best consult a legal eagle on the matter as they can be very complicated

That's the only thing I can recommend.

gerrycollins

eoin wrote: »

How do you mean "slipped up"? All the stuff you mention is completely dependent on what is in the disciplinary procedure policy of the OP's company - the steps you listed are just one set of steps that a company might choose to take.



That's the only thing I can recommend.

sorry suppose I should have said that if they did not follow through on thier own displinary procedures then the OP would have some what a case to argue abeit a techinical one.

What I pointed out are the basics for dealing with matters of gross misconduct, i know the company may have their own rules and policy but those steps are what we use in matter like this although the OP company may have some slight differences.

Jo King

What happened to you was grossly unfair and in breach of your entitlements to fair procedures and natural justice. You should have been shown the video in the presence of the managers and your union representative and asked to comment on it before they decided that you were guilty. You were deemed to be guilty on the basis of materials in the possession of the company which you had not had an opportunity to comment on. You not alone have a case for constructive dismissal but also a case for damages for your stress related condition and defamation. You should contact a good employment law solicitor and get your case rolling.

LegacyUser

AARRRGH wrote: »

If my job was causing me to be require tranquilisers and psycho-analysis, I don't think I'd continue working there... so at some stage you really should ask yourself, "Am I my own worst enemy? Why do I tolerate ruining my own life?"

Do you have a history of nervous or psychological issues?

Nope, not at all. Generally as happy-go-lucky as they come. N. o other issues in my life to speak of. Good Family/friends/relationship etc. If I never had to work another day in that job again I'd be grand.

LegacyUser

Jo King wrote: »

What happened to you was grossly unfair and in breach of your entitlements to fair procedures and natural justice. You should have been shown the video in the presence of the managers and your union representative and asked to comment on it before they decided that you were guilty. You were deemed to be guilty on the basis of materials in the possession of the company which you had not had an opportunity to comment on. You not alone have a case for constructive dismissal but also a case for damages for your stress related condition and defamation. You should contact a good employment law solicitor and get your case rolling.

Thank you for your comment. Maybe I should have made it clear that ultimately I was reinstated, and I was paid for all the days I was suspended. The person who actually "did it" owned up when he heard I had taken the blame. It was still about a week from then that they told me I was cleared.

What bugs me really is if they had have had any basic investigation at all initially it would've have been pretty simple to get to the bottom of it. Even if they had of suspended all the people left there at the time of the incident "pending investigation", no problems for me then either.

It was a complete farce, seems to me that wanted/ or were under orders to act straight away. My reputation wasn't exactly sqeauky clean, the seen a grainy image of a guy with black hair, and consciously or sub-consciously used prejudice against me to assume wrongly beyond doubt that it was me. Sorry I am waffling here.

Sofa_King Good

do no win non fee solicitors take these cases?

Jo King

Sofa_King Good wrote: »

do no win non fee solicitors take these cases?

Yes. It is open and shut. Even if there has been re-instatement and arrears paid there was still a breach of basic rights to fairness and the medical condition was caused by the stress.

Nody

Jo King wrote: »

Yes. It is open and shut. Even if there has been re-instatement and arrears paid there was still a breach of basic rights to fairness and the medical condition was caused by the stress.

Sorry but unless you're willing to back up that statement with legal papers AND court cases you're making unfounded promises.

Darragh29

Sofa_King Good wrote: »

do no win non fee solicitors take these cases?

No, they charge around 300 Euro an HOUR and as for no win no fee, forget it.

Darragh29

OP, how long have you been working for this company??? What you should do immediately is get a solicitor to write to your employer on your behalf. Once an employer gets a solicitors letter, they tend to back off a bit...

Darragh29

Also OP, who is the person in the CCTV footage??? If it is not you, on what basis do you come to this conclusion??? Is the CCTV footage poor quality???

nowregistered12

Darragh29 wrote: »

OP, how long have you been working for this company??? What you should do immediately is get a solicitor to write to your employer on your behalf. Once an employer gets a solicitors letter, they tend to back off a bit...

Ok, I was the OP, seemed easier to do it this way.

Thanks for the response Darragh. I know I probably haven't explained myself as well as I could, but I don't need the company to back off, any more at least. I am sure they are of the opinion that they would like to brush it under the carpet asap. I have been cleared, but I feel tarnished, and effected by the whole mess.

I've worked there over 3 years.

nowregistered12

Darragh29 wrote: »

Also OP, who is the person in the CCTV footage??? If it is not you, on what basis do you come to this conclusion??? Is the CCTV footage poor quality???

The person is a colleague who only resembles me in the fact that he has black hair, thats the actual reason they gave me for the confusion. He himself was not investigated at any point until he confessed to it, not was anyone else.

I think I mentioned earlier that some time after I was invited to watch the video footage, as a witness. I was not given the opportunity as the accused.

The footage was of the highest quality at least that I can imagine. Real time, full colour etc. And it was clear as day that A) I had no part to play in it all and there is no possible way an objective mind could come to the conclusion it was anyone but the guy who actually did it.

That is why it is such a mystery to me. They said they had seen a video, they actually hadn't at that point, but still they were sure enough to not investigate anyone else. Only possible reason I can think of is that someone in high authority tipped them off, wrongly and they couldn't tell me or the seen the poor quality photo, didn't anaylse it all and jumped to conclusions based on their personal feeling towards me.

Again, sorry I go on so much...

Jo King

Nody wrote: »

Sorry but unless you're willing to back up that statement with legal papers AND court cases you're making unfounded promises.

Take a look at Paul Gallagher, Applicant v. The Revenue Commissioners, David O'Callaghan and The Government of Ireland [1995] 55 1 I.R. for a good example of the meaning of fair procedures in an employment situation. I can recommend a solicitor in the Dublin area who would take the case on a no foal no fee basis! I also know solicitors who work for €150 per hour. There are no unfounded promises. The O/P also has a case in defamation by the way and possibly malicious falsehood.

nowregistered12

Thank you, and please do. I am in Dublin. Its not about getting money from them, or oneupmanship (?) just about standing up for my rights.